Episode 1: When You're Lost in the Darkness

Hello everyone, and welcome to of Mushrooms and Men, a last of us podcast here on the weirding Way Media Network. I am one of your hosts, hosts of the Culture Cast, Chris dash You, and I'm joined by my good friend. He and I just spent oh what ten twelve weeks talking about hot Dragons with Hot Dragons six, my good friend, one of the hosts of the Game of Rose, a hot D podcast. You sure love me that hot D. How you doing, Chris?

There's there's some D in this, but it's less hot and more disgusting to to prep for today's session, I have done I don't know about ten kilo's worth of US psilocybin. Yeah, I'm prepared. God I live in England now, so I use kilos. I actually have no idea what that is. Oh metric, very cool.

So on this episode we are going to be talking a little bit about the first episode of the first A little bit. What are we talking about? Yeah, a lot of it, frankly, but the words he's talking about the new sale on Zara and maybe you know, we'll throw in some Pedro Pascal, right, But then we're gonna be talking about the first episode of the first season of HBO's latest show, their first show premiering this year, The Last of Us. So the show is based off of a video game of the same name, which is something that I feel like we can't overlook enough that this is a video game property that is not being butchered somehow. It's again, it's twenty twenty three, folks, All bets are off.

But the show does star one Pedro Pascal, the Mandalorian himself and Bella Ramsey. They play Joel and Ellie, who, again, if you're familiar with the source material, I don't have to explain this to you. If you're not more or less like myself. Joel and Ellie are on the road to do something there will not Yeah, that's what I was expecting. I mean.

Bella Ramsay's in a grogu esque way she has. She has a Game of Thrones connection too, which which I do appreciate. But so um not to give too much away, we will be talking spoilers. But at the top here I have not played The Last of Us all the way through. I may play along with the show because I think the show.

I'm sure you might agree. The show is kind of moving obviously, through the game, and it's clearly also making it clear to people who have played the game that things from the game are going to be big pieces of the show. I mean, they show the skyscrapers, which is as far as I made it in the first game, and they show that at the end of the episode for this. But before we talk about the show, let's talk a little bit about the Last of Us the property, because it's been around for two games, yeah, almost a decade, two games at this point, and I think we're also to the point now with the twenty thirteen game and then the sequel which came out in twenty twenty. The twenty thirteen game is almost Skyrim levels of remaster where it's been remastered like eight million times.

It was. It was remaster for PS four, and then they did a remake for the PS five and like the PS three game looks pretty good. In PS four version looks good, but apparently it's it's good. The remaster is good. But earlier I have the I have the remake that is what I had played.

I had the PS four remake, and I may play some of it while we're you know, while we're continuing to watch the show. But that is the extent of my experience with the Last of Us is I played the first game about maybe the first act of the game, not even probably, But I know you have a little bit more experience with the game, so and I know you're a fan as well. Yeah, I've played the first game twice, which is a lot in these days to play a game than once if it's like a twenty hour game. And then I played the second one once, but I was like came out a year ago. They're both like super brutal experiences.

I think the second one is actually a little like gnarlier than the first one as far as emotionally. Um, obviously won't really get into that one, but yeah, from what I can tell, if the first episode in an indication, it's following the game like pretty closely, which is fine because the game. One of the things the game was praised for on like the gameplay stuff, was like that it was pretty well written, like it was very narrative. And Neil Druckman, who's the who's actually like the co creator of the show. He comes from a video game background.

He was one of naughty dogs like top writers creators, and he like in charge of the Uncharted games, which also I know you might had had a pretty big adaptation earlier this year as well or last year, I guess now at this point, and another adaptation that had been like sticking had been like sitting around. Well, the thing is, I'm Charted came out in oh seven. Last of Us came out almost seven years after eight came out in twenty thirteen. Uncharted is the game that I have a lot more experience with. But they're very similar games in a lot of ways.

Like they're built on the same platform, right like play play platform, they're running on the same engine. They do a lot of the same things, but the tone and the expectations are wildly and drastically different. I mean, Uncharted is definitely much more like almost like yeah action action, yeah, like two Raider Indian and Jays Yeah, and then like and Lassos is very much more like everything feels heavy, like you never have enough. And yeah, they're both like very like I think, well written stories with great characters and a lot of in depth kind of really getting that like emotional piece Lassos more so than Uncharted. But yeah, they're they're very like disparate things like ultimately, Uncharted tends to be a bit more optimistic and the last of us I don't want to see.

It's more realistic, but it's definitely like grittier and grimier, and it's it's hard, too hard to stick with. But yeah, Neil Druckman is actually direct episodes, he's a co producer on the show, and I mean his fingerprints are all over this, so and that's good because like he obviously is his baby, and he created something that was already pretty cinematic. So I don't think I'm not saying it was easy, but I think as far as an adaptation goes, maybe this is something that, as far as just from a pure writing perspective, was maybe a little less difficult to adapt than a lot of other previous video game properties, which I think tend to maybe focus a little bit less on story and are a bit like more abstract and you have to sort of make it palatable for a TV viewer, whereas like this is if you've played the games, you'd be like, yeah, like this is a video game, but I could definitely see something like this being translated on a big screen and yeah, well and that's and that is the thing that you're completely right about and that is the other thing that I appreciate about, you know, and about what they're adapting here.

And that's why I mentioned, like, we can't forget that this is a video game thing, because there is a huge thing that we kind of have to unpack here at the top, which is things made based off of video games tend to unequivocally across the board, for the most part, suck, and not just suck, but suck fucking hard in a way that you know, we're talking Blood Rain, We're talking Assassin's Creed movie, We're talking plenty of movies that you and I and so many other people got hyped for, got excited for because the games that we loved were being turned into movies. Jesus Christ, the Halo TV show, ooh boy, what is there to see it? It's one of those things that's been you know, they talk about it forever and then it finally happens, and nobody cares because we still have the games to go back to, and the games are a much deeper, much more personal, much more engaging experience for us.

And it was never about the movie. It was about us as gamers interacting. And that is why I completely agree that The Last of Us is a perfect thing to adapt because it's a movie as it is, you were playing a movie when you're playing the game. It's such a cinematic I mean the narrative, sure, but it's such a cinematic experience the game alone that it's presented in such a way that it feels like you're playing a movie. Like, of course, it's just turn it into a movie, just or a TV show.

I mean, obviously a TV show. I think the better way to do this. I mean that I think just out of the gate, the fact that they were like, let's do a show, not a movie, was the smartest thing they did to begin with, because that shows, in my mind, a commitment to taking this seriously as an adaptation. And I think it originally was pitched as a movie but did move to show. And yeah, to your point, like the game is like the first games like fifteen hours or something like that, and so you know the first season is gonna be about ten hours, and obviously it's not like an exact one to one, but you can see like it lets it breathe, gives you time with the characters, and from the things I've read, the key differences aren't so much any of the story beats will be simularly with the game.

It's just they have a little bit more time. It's been some of the side characters whom we may have not seen as much in the game, you know, they were more of like a mean city end and so I think it lets the world breathe a little bit and be a bit more realistic. But then it also there's an interesting question, and it's like who is this four? And I don't mean that cynically, but I'm one hundred percent with you because I was thinking the same thing as I was watching it. Yeah, because I mean it's in the way of the fans.

You know, if you do like a one basically one to one adaptation, is that really what they want? Like I think people want like the main things to be like the same. People like that, But then do you want to be exactly the same, because then you're like, well, it's just like kind of like a remake, Like it's like a remake of something I've I've already experienced, probably in a more on adulterated form. And then there's the other people who've like maybe heard of it. Because less Us is a very big cultural touchstone, Like people don't have an essay played it, but most people have heard of it.

It's obviously one of the most popular PlayStation games of all time, and it's just people like zombies and shit like that, and so like it plays as a piece of ip that could bring in people that have you know, heard of it, maybe experienced it a little bit like yourself, or it just it looks like something cool and can't help but feel like it's probably if I had to choose one audience, probably more for them, and that actually allows them not to try to like spice things up in a way so much to like say, oh, there's this whole like different thing because the game is so similar and saying that, no, it's it's a good story. Let's just like execute this in a very competent way. And if it is not super different than than just playing the game, like that isn't like is that is that a negative criticism?

I don't know, like part of the things like actually if maybe not. It's like adapting a book, like people want like a you know, like the like the accurate book retelling, So maybe it's the same type of thing. But yeah, we don't ask the question about the book, because the book is not a visual medium, right, it's because video and that's visualist and I think that realistically, we almost need to forget that it is a visual medium and just understand that is still a story that can be adapted into the film medium, because yeah, it is the visual medium, but you and I see it that way. I feel like people that are not gamers end or into gaming see it as just watching a movie, and they forget the interactive part.

And so again we're focusing on the interactive part, and they're forgetting the interactive part, but they want to see real people, because you and I think that's a completely valid point. I think to your question, I was kind of grappling with that two's watching this because this is so good, it's so well made that you just sit and wonder to yourself, like, this isn't for me, because I already liked the like I already like video games. Again, I didn't play the game because I really wasn't interested in playing a game where I spend the bulk majority of it feeling depressed and heavy every time I have to kill an enemy. That's just not an experience I'm personally interested In that being said, I'm not opposed to sitting down and playing it, and I very well may.

But there are gonna be plenty of people like my parents who are not gonna play it, but would totally watch this show. And I think that is. I think that's also the audience is people who are interested in seeing a story like this that would never sit down and watch someone play it or play it themselves. And that's a lot of people. That is.

It's a huge amount of people. Yeah, clearly they made this show. They're doing more research than we are to know that there is an audience for this. It's just like you said, whether or not they're able to successfully execute on it. And I'm going to tell you something.

Seeing John Hannah's face in the first two seconds of the talking about last week, and I was like, it's like they they fucking built this show for Chris. I was. I was like, it's fate and he's there and he's doing he's doing the thing that he was essentially doing in a touch of cloth, but he's serious here and it works. And but but again it's it's a scene that almost has to exist for this show to work right because the show the way it is, and the game the way it is doesn't spend a lot of time explaining anything. Correct.

Yeah, so I would say like one of the big differences, but all their game. But like's you know, since I've played the games, I can talk about a few of the key differences. I would say most of the story beats were identical. Like this is basically the opening act of the game, um like with the daughter and her dying, and that's like very very crucial in the game. We spend a little bit more time with the daughter.

But another thing is you get like it's it's not like, oh I don't understand what's going on with the infection, but it's like you get like very high level the explanation of it, and you kind of just say, Okay, it's not really relevant. The show does give a little bit more time to the exposition, which I think is fine, Like I said, especially for an audience who, while it's probably comprised of a decent portion of gamers, probably most people aren't gamers or haven't played the games, So it's good to give them a little bit of context, especially when you have these like zombie type shows. I think people like that backstory. So even though it's not necessary. I don't think, yeah, it's done it, but I think I think it's I think more or less, and I think you would probably agree.

It may even come down to expectation of the audience. I think Western audiences expect a certain level of like things to be explained and not a lot of open I know that this is a stereotype for American audiences, but I think it's an apt one. American audiences hate open ended storytelling sopranos. A lot of TV shows have open ended narratives in the way they end, and people I'm still trying to speak of HBO still trying to Yeah, still trying to solve the ending. It's like there's nothing to solve, Like you were given exactly what it is and you can leave it up to interpretation.

But solving is different than interpreting. I feel like if they hadn't given us a scene like this where they essentially lay out what is about to happen, but in the way that narratives tend to, where it's like, well, this could happen if we don't keep an eye on it, like, which is obviously just a very cheeky way of the narrative being like, hands off, we're not going to tell you, but we are. I like that because it does just it just kind of you know, random talk show in nineteen sixty eight in this universe has two people who happen to just talk about the way the world ends. I mean that there's this quote I saw last year and it was like, on a piece of paper somewhere in the world, someone has written down how the world will end and they just don't even know it.

Like someone's predicted how the world's gonna end and they just happen to be right. But how many other people are protecting how the world's gonna end? People do it all the time, nuclear war and this, that and something else. And in nineteen sixty eight, two dudes on a talk show just happened to hit on cored aceps. And he doesn't even say it's cored aceps specifically.

He just rattles off. You know, it's fun guy, da da dada. And if you're a fan of this, and you know cored aceps are the the transmission, the kind of the infection point, I guess, so yeah, I appreciate that. I get what I mean, I agree with you, like the game obviously doesn't need it, but I think this did. Yeah, And something to consider is this zombie infection is a little is a bit different than like the traditional one where it's it's like a fungal infection, and so it's visible in how the people transform too.

So I think maybe given that context helps and like just for context, like Court of Steps is essentially you may have heard of those like ants that are essentially brain controlled by the mushrooms to like bring them food, and it infects them and basically takes over their motor systems. That's what this does, but like on a much wider scale, and it can actually infect humans only because the earth has been heating up and it got too warm and they adapted to the warmth. And yeah, because the point he's like, well, this can't exist in humans because our bifimperature is too high. Well what if the world gets hotter? And I was like, you got a little climate change in there.

Nice that that's not in the game. And I want to point this out, and this is I think that this is something that is brought to the table by the person whose name we haven't mentioned, but I want to mention him because well obviously he's the showrunner Craig Mason. Man, Holy cow, what a career. I mean, he wrote rocket Man, the Harlan Williams movie in the Night in that weird Disney movie where Harlan Williams plays an astronaut, and and then he wrote my favorite scary movie, Scary Movie three. And then he directed Superhero Movie, which you know neither here nor there, but he created He created Chernobyl, and that I mean, Jesus H.

Christ, I don't I don't know if you've seen Chernobyl. I'm assuming you have. Oh yeah, I love Chernobyl, but I'll tell you I wouldn't have it any other way than the guy who was the creator of Chernobyl working on and creating this show because they share a very similar DNA, like definitely like a similar visual style, right, and like this like feeling of failure from up top, I think it permeates. Chernobyl was a bit more about like the intellectual kind of like how did these systems not work? Right?

And then this is a bit more about, Okay, everything's broken, let's look at the people, right, bet, how did the systems continue to fail? Even yeah? Yea, and yeah, I mean Chernobyl was amazing and also kind oppressient, because like all those things, a lot of those things that were highlighted in the USSR failings became evident in COVID, which happened like a few months after Chernobyl came out, and you saw it like a lot of governments responded, and so the I think there's like a there's like a sense of realism even though it's like an unrealistic scenario that Craig Mazin kind of heat abused in his works and I'm talking about like Superior movies and his recent things, and it's very clear here, and I think it works really well to buy you into the into the situation that these characters find themselves in.

You know Pedro Pascal, you have Gabriel Luna. You know, I'm still waiting on the canceled Ghostwriters show to start. I think he'll be waiting for a while. Yeah, yeah, so I think he's on this show now, as they would say, so, yeah, he's It took me actually a while to click, Like I was like, I know that guy that got place Tommy, his brother, Petro Pescal's brother in the show, And I was like, and I was like, oh shit, this is fucking ghost I'm a big agency shield guy, so I'm like, this is ghostwriter. So it's good to see him getting checks well.

And I was about to say, you know, let's just talk about the casting right at the top. How do you feel about casting Pedro Pascal? I mean, the biggest TV actor right now? Is it on the nose? It feels a little on the nose.

Uh, He's He's in everything. I mean literally, That's why I'm asking, like he is in everything. It's funny that add a Game of Thrones. He somehow became the biggest star for not that other I haven't had big careers, but I think he has had the most menable Like he's been a Narcos, the Mandalorian, he's an wonder woman. He's been in a ton of movies like and he's a great actor.

And you know, because Mandalorian requires him to be on set for like five minutes a season because it's just a body double there. I think for a lot of it it's he has time to kill and show his face as Joel and and uh, he has he has the look for it and he has this like quiet intensity which Joel has um in The Games. I was reading an article about how they said they stoppedened him up in the show as a relative to the Games, because he's quite like harsh. I mean, not that you saw he's harsh in this, but I think to make it more pattible for people, you need someone who is a bit more relatable, um to like root for, right, And he obviously has a good relationship with HBO. So I mean, is it cliche in the centime he's in everything?

Sure, but like is it a bad casting? No? I think he killed it and he had like he you could even see in some of the things he did before the time jump, there's like this simmering kind of darkness in him. Right. Troy Baker plays the character right, and the character model is not based off of Troy Baker the person, right, you know, it's kind of similar ish.

I mean, he's like a white guy in the in the in the Games. Uh, and obviously he's like Hispanic now, which it's not really a big like, No, it doesn't, it does not, it's it's it's just a yeah, it's like his racest arbitry. I feel like my only concern with casting Pedro Pascal in this role is. I'm having a hard time seeing it as anything other than just Pedro Pascal. And there's nothing wrong with that, But I think to your point, Pedro Pascal has kind of he's become more than any of his roles.

It's like he is a part of the pop culture quote work of twenty twenty, of the twenty twenties in a big way, just being the Mandalorian. Obviously, like you said, all jokes aside about whether or not he's actually doing anything on set or if it's just somebody else in the suit. You you walk down the street and your Pedro Pascal. People are gonna go the Mandalorian, doesn't matter who's in the suit, right, Yeah. I wonder if that's gonna be the reaction for something like this.

It's gonna be, oh, your Joel in the Last of Us because again, the character that he's playing, softening him up, I think works only because they can't have him be the character he is for the video game, because I think it's so much reliant on how you're playing. Is that character in the video game, Yeah, because you're taking ownership of the actions. You're like, oh, this is shitty, but like I'm doing it and still I'm sure he's going to do shitty things in the game, and you've already seen him do some shitty things in the show, but nothing that's unjustifiable. Like I haven't seen him do anything in the show yet where I'm like, I don't understand why you did that. You know that he may have killed that cop.

It was unclear if he killed him or just knocked him out, which was savagely the one at the end. You're pretty sure that guy, Yeah, dude, I don't know that guy got punched. That's my point. Like, you couldn't have him go as far as Tony Soprano does in the college episode where you have him choking a guy out. I don't think you could go that far with the Joel character the way that they did it in that show, because you would lose any amount of sympathy that he's going to be getting from the non video game players, right, like you said, the people who are watching the show that don't know what he does in the video game, which again, I know the beats of the story at least.

I just don't think many people that the show is being geared towards would get on board with the character going that far, and I wonder how how much. I wonder how much complexity they're going to bring to it if they've already said we've softened the character a bit. And I think it's important because like there's certain things like if it follows the game, because some followers for the game, he does some things later on whet are like pretty hard to h I think, not understand, but say like, oh, that's an okay thing to do. And I think if you want, if they're gonna follow a similar trajectory for him, you need to like really get the audience like engage with him where we can really understand where he's coming from and not just be like a disengaged and be like fuck this guy.

So I think that's that's the thing. That's I think the path they're going to go, it's probably follows the same story beats, but like maybe we understand him a little better or like maybe in like a Walter White kind of way where he does terrible things but we still root for him because we've built that emotional connection because we've seen enough good at one point where it's like hard to just disassociate the two things. Well, and to be fair, I mean, we know the world that they're inhabiting is a unforgiving world, and we see that post the Man. We just love watching shows with time jumps, apparently with the post twenty year time jump. But let's talk about everything before the time jump, because you kind of mentioned it is more or less that is the opening of the video game.

And I think that the video game's opening for a lot of people, myself included, is well, I think it's a spectacular way and a really devastating way to open your video game, at least this kind of game. And I think that the show captures it. I think that the show actually more or less just does what the video game did. And they're almost aping that shot from the game in a lot of the shots where you've got the real essentially looking out of the rear window and looking through the front windshield, and it keeps kind of alternating, and they do that a lot in the game, and I you know, obviously it works in the game, but I think it works really well here because it gives you this just sense of i don't know, like a sense of like how just being uncomfortable, right, and a sense of claustrophobia.

Really well, yeah, and so in the game opens as you playing as Sarah too, which playing the game, you obviously people that know what was happening, So like, I think it was more jarring or jarring in the same way it as for someone who has no context or last of us coming into the show. Fun fact, she's played by Nico Parker, who is Bandaway Newton's daughter. I thought, like her face kind of looked familiar. Uh did you know that? Yeah?

No, I I looked it up after the fact. You know, she has that same quality that her mom does. Yeah, like like her her cheeks, like like her facial structures like very striking and similar. And and I was like, she looks vaguely familiar, but I couldn't put it. And then I saw it.

I was like, oh, it makes sense, like because like her Yeah, her face is not identical, but like once you it's hard to unsee once you know it, right. But yeah, So the show starts off following the daughter the differences, we spend a little bit more time with Sarah because you spend like like a day with her rather than just like when all the ship goes bad in the in the game and it takes place right outside of Austin, which is just like the game. I lived in Austin for a while, so I like a bit of a soft spot for that, and I always, I always found that interesting because while Austin is a major city, it's rarely the like the core of any type of this is like, this is like the thing I think of when I think of things that take place in Austin.

I think of the beginning of the Last of Us, and it's like unless like it's a Richard Linklater movie, but like he's from Austin, so right, right, and Naughty Dog is not from Austin, Like no, I think Troy Baker, Troy Baker grew up in like San Antonio. I think that's that's it. But I don't know if there's a there's not like seemingly a reason to set it in Austin. I guess Gustavo Santoya's music maybe works better if it's in the South. Yeah, yeah, oh, And like we can talk about the music later, but the music the game is unbelievable, Like it's very like somber, kind of like Americana type of vibes, and the show basically using the exact same soundtrack, which is perfect.

It's like, why there's no real It's like Star Wars in the context of they use the same type of music across the game shows Dostavo Santoya doing the music either way. So yes, it's like Michael Giancino, Like, if you have him doing the music for your game, you're not gonna hire somebody else to do the music for your show. It's like, you have a guy who does the voice for Mario in your game, why would you hire someone else to do the voice for Mario. It's me, Chris. It's me Chris Pratt.

I am playing Mario. This is the voice Hello. But it works. But it works here because again, like you said, the game already felt like a movie. Is it's not, it's it's almost This doesn't feel like a layup, And by the end of the show it may feel like a kind of a layup.

But do you know what I mean? Like this may usher in a whole new age of video game adaptations if this is successful, because Hollywood and the industry will finally look at all of the games that have all these fucking narratives that they're not telling and just going oh dead Space, dead Space TV show, Oh you know what I mean, needs one Like yesterday Dead Space is so good. But that's my point, Like it's that same thing where I think now and my hope is with something like Last of Us is we will see people going, Okay, video games are a serious medium, and that should never have been in question, as you and I both know as people who spent the better part of our teams playing Resident E bel four, one of the more narratively kind of bizarre video games, but fun that in and of itself should be turned into something.

We have known this for the longest time, and I'm hopeful that the bigger world gets on board with it because we've been saying this for years. We as a generation, I've been saying, like video games are a medium worth looking at in the mainstream, and like, in my opinion, like the first twenty minutes of this show is a good indicator of what you can do when you actually give a shit about the thing you're adapting. And it's like you're saying about the video games, like I think companies, streamers, whatever are looking for like IP is king right, but like there's they're really doing the comic book thing, and you know, I think that's generally successful, but I think if this video game thing works out, we're going to see a lot of that.

Like Amazon recently acquired the rights for God a War and they're gonna do it on Prime video. And I think God Awards like another like action oriented narrative game that has, like especially the last few iterations, have got a lot more serious and writing focused. So I think we're starting to see that. And yeah, I do think the success of this to your point, who is going to drive more and more of those acquisitions and adaptations rather all going to be good? Probably not, but you know, if they're more good than not, I think that's that's a that's a cool thing to happen.

Well, given how many bad things we've had in the I think lifetime of adaptations of video games, which, by the way, as you know, ain't that long. Video games haven't been around long enough for us to be able to say like, oh no, we can't look at the history of video game adaptations. Oh we can. And it's been more or less taking place in our lifetime. So you know, it started with that Super Mario Brothers movie.

It's not a surprise. In twenty twenty three, we're getting another Super Mario Brothers movie. Finally, it finally took all this time to get back here. But yeah, I think we're going to see the way they did with comic books. I think video games in the next ten to fifteen years are really going to be hit hard in the adaptation world.

And you know what, I for one, I'm kind of thankful because, like you said, are they all gonna be good? No? But I think something like this sets the tone for what you can do with the medium. And the first thirty minutes of this, even if this isn't based off of the video game, the first thirty minutes of this are a compelling zombie adjacent TV show, more so than fucking Walking Dead ever was. Yeah, but I will say the early episodes of The Walking Dead had a very similar vibe, and I think that was when Waldo was the strongest, and like, like the first like third of this episode actually does kind of echo that like lived in like this is society before it all goes to shit, and it was very strong, and I think it could be jarring for some people to see, like Sarah die like that in Joel's arms, but we don't really see the Joel Ellie relationship, which is very core to the games.

I mean, that's obviously going to be coming up, but I think and one of the things that I kind of didn't like was they really beat into your head about like him losing Sarah like they did in the flashback, even though it just happened like twenty minutes prior when he attacks the cop. But that is very very core to some of the like decisions that Joel makes in the show in the game, because it's like, obviously Ellie is a surrogate for his lost daughter, and it explains why he would do some of the things that he does. So I am interested to see how that relationship plays out. I think they relaship between him and Sarah Pedro Pascal, Joel and Sarah and in the show and just a relatively brief amount of time, like we saw that that like that love and care he had for her and how she was, you know, a bit independent and talked back much like Ellie uh Bella Ramsey.

So that's going to I think be them more so than the really nice looking set pieces and brutal zombies and they look gross and we haven't really even seen a clicker yet, which is what kind of they turn into but with the fucking grandma with the mushroom mouth was horrifying. But I think the most thing that's gonna be most core for this is is how that relationship dynamic between Joel and Ellie plays out. And I think based on the early parts of the episode, it's going to be done well well. And I think also to your point, you know, because we kind of really haven't even mentioned her other than saying, well, she was in Game of Thrones too, Yeah, Bella Ramsey is nineteen years old. Yeah, well, like Macy Williams was like ninth, like, you know, thirty by the end of the game.

I know, but man like Bella Ramsey, Uh kind of feel bad for her in away because she looks like a child. She Like what's funny is she's nineteen and somehow she looks too young to be Ellie, do you know what I mean. It's like, I don't know, like something about her facial features, Like I'm looking forward to seeing them really doing something with her character. Interesting because I think Bella Ramsey's a fantastic actress, the worst witch notwithstanding, um I wonder because Pedro Pasco makes sense Bella Ramsey always she feels like a little bit of a harder cell and we haven't seen enough of her really to know. Yeah, but it's just her her addition and her being in this is I don't know, she she has a bigger mountain to climb in my mind of the two actors of the two leads, right well, she's not.

She's not as proven right like, right like, And that's my point. She's Game of Thrones and the worst witch. That's it. Yeah, And like she was, she was funny Game of Thrones and cocky and like like that. But that's not the same as that character as Ellie isn't.

And for context, Ellie Naidock never admitted to it was, but it was like, well not Elliott Page, but at the time Ellen Page like was essentially looked just it looked just like Elliott Page. And actually this was you know, before Elliott made their transition. Like people were saying, well, if they ever do a movie or like, it's just obvious to casts. Obviously that's that's not viable today, but just to give contexts with people that don't know the game, that's who the character kind of looked like acted like. And so yeah, so it was interesting when the cast were like, Okay, who are thinking the cast because the obvious person is not available.

So I think it seems like HBO has a relationship with her, right because like they were the thing cut similar to Petro Pascal. They were the thing that gave her her big break. So you know, they probably were like, we have this, this relationship with this internal talent she's shown Brightley did. This is her chance to like really go to the next step. I think if she's successful in the show, we're going to see her in a lot of stuff.

And yeah, I mean she was in it probably like ten minutes total. Her perforce was fine, Like she portrayed the character pretty similarly to the game well, but she didn't have a whole lot to do yet other than be kind of spunky. Uh So I'm interested to see where her character goes. We obviously spent a lot more time with Joel and even Sarah in this episode than we did with Ellie, and I like that the show is making it clear to the audience because again, I mean, as someone who played the game, I kind of know how the first you know, act of the episode plays at long episode two hour and a half moved at a nice clip. It was like a feature linked film essentially.

Yeah, I like that the show is reinforcing to the audience that it's not just the clickers that are the problem. It's not just the court decepts in infection that's the problem, because Joel's daughter doesn't die from the infection. She dies from the People. And again, you know, we always joke about the Walking Dead. The People are the Walking Dead.

It is the same ship. But like, for whatever reason, this just feels more compelling right now. It feels fresh, it feels new that a year from now, when we're talking about the end of the show and the next season coming out in a year from then, it might not. It may just feel like it like another Walking Dead. But here's the thing.

This show has what two seasons, three seasons, So they said the first season is going to be the first game, which makes sense based on like what we've seen so far. I think the second game you could maybe split into two seasons because of how that not to get supposed, But the game is kind of split like from two very specific perspectives, right, and then there's no third game. I don't know, but like, let's just assume it's just lots of US one and two and there's no third one. Yeah, it probably like two or three seasons. Right, Walking Dead has been going forever, and I think that you would make the case, as I'm sure many people myself included, who were watching the show when it first came out, this show was good and then it really takes a turn and then it falls off.

I don't think we have to worry about that with this show. This show may just not get get great after the first half of the first season or the second season, maybe a stumbling block compared to the first season, but I don't think we have to worry about this narrative going on forever, which is reassuring as an audience member. And this first season has a very like specific story that it's going to tell, um like with a start and an end. I think people will like it. And I like that they're they're not trying to extract as much hours as possible, which you could see, Like I could see a show in which they you know, spend five or six episodes or even a whole season going in you know, between Sarah's death and when Joel meets Ellie, Like I could see that, oh, like the lashbacking to that day, not even flashbacking, but just like the whole season is leading up to, like the twenty is, the whole season is bridging that twenty year gap.

I could see that happening, um and and maybe maybe that's ip they do later on, like we want to do a prequel series. I was about to say, like, bro, you they've they've got it. They've I'm sure someone's bitch if you're you're over at HBO and I'm an HBO, and somebody's going, what can we do with this last of us property that will make us somebody Like Yeah, I'm gonna make a show in that twenty year gap because this one year is a long time. Twenty years is even longer. And yeah, and I mean I would watch it too, Like, let me be honest, but I am happy they didn't go that route with this show at least, like they're they're being saying, like we want to we have a very like specific story you want to tell, and we're not going to do the typical adaptation thing where we just extract every pound of flesh that we can to make you our like customer for as long as we can.

So I like that they're that they're just saying, let's tell a good story, made well and doesn't have to last forever well and and like anything else, I mean this, this show is going to be the crown jewel in their crown that they're making of this franchise. Like you said twenty that twenty years, there could be a show there, but this show is always going to be the show that has the most narrative importance to the world as a whole. Again, knowing where the story ends up going not to oil it. This story has larger ramifications for the world. But those other stories, that doesn't mean they're not worth telling.

They matter to the world of those people. But I'm with you. I like that this story is being given the time that it clearly is going to need, but also not wasting our time, which is what they would be doing otherwise. And I think we kind of saw some of that with Game of Thrones. It felt like at times they were kind of spinning their wheels a little bit, like, we don't need to see another another pre time jump thing for you to not give us post time jump stuff that we want, like that they're not trying to do that here.

It seems very obvious that, like, they know where they're going and what they want to do, and the video game is such a good guide, but it doesn't have to be the road map. How many failed birth scenes are we expecting in a season of mushroom birth scenes. Yes, we make it one of those, but yeah, so I guess, how did you feel about the act of the performance in general? I think Joel and Tests probably had the most to do. Tommy he's not really in it a lot, but he's obviously a big driving force of why Joel is doing what he's doing.

Tommy, Joel's brother's lost and Joel wants to go find him. And the difference in this in Walking Dead is there is a there is like a societal construct, like there's Fedroh, which is like the government still exists, but it's a bit I don't want to say oppressive isn't really the right word, but it's definitely much more restricted in what you can do. You're in these like small enclaves. It's not a great life. It's better than like the Walking Dead head but and then there's these rebels called the Fireflies who kind of think like the government's overstepping and people should have more freedom.

It's a shitty situation. I don't know what the right answer is, but it is an instruct dynamic. And Joel wants to go get his brother who went on like a supply run or something, and he needs a way to get out because these people really aren't allowed to leave. We do see like the people that tried to leave their encampment were hung. And you see that even the first boy that comes in that he's infected is killed and you know, burnt, which makes sense in the context of you can't have an infect person coming because they would do that.

But you see it. It is like a harsh existence. It's not easy, right well, And and that's the thing that I appreciate with something like this versus Walking Dead. Walking Dead feels kind of so pastoral at this point, with like oh and everything broke down and that's it, and there's nothing like really like, yeah, the zombies are a threat, but like even the Court accepts are a threat here, but society doesn't fall apart completely, like the Court aceps. Infection is a big deal.

It's a big problem. It's clearly driving the society to be what it is and to adapt in the way that it's adapted, but society still exists, like people. You see Joel walking the streets at one point of Boston. Yes it's in the quarantine zone, but you would never see anything like that and walking dead. You'd never see groups of people like that doing anything out in the open together.

Well you would. And then Joel or not Joel, and then what's the main guy, Rick Rick shows up and then for some reason everyone's dead. Yeah, those little mini society goes into shit. Well, and that's what I appreciate about this show, just like the way it's telling, the narrative and the narrative that it decided to adapt. It's not just your everyday apocalyptic story where it's just Ellie and Joel walking the waste land like they're they're going to be going to do something to try and benefit society as a whole, obviously unbeknownst to them or not.

But there is a society still worth saving that they can look around and see is still there, which is not the case in almost any other post apocalyptic zombie style story, like where the where this show starts is where a lot of like these zombie things would end. Like Joel is, It's not the best, but it's like a relatively safe place he can live a life till he's old and die, you know, die. But he's actually leaving it for a reason, and initially to find his brother, but obviously, like his wacion with Ellie will become more important. But yeah, so that's different because it's he's he's leaving actually safety in this it's not perfect, it's you know, maybe even a little oppressive, but he's leaving a thing that allows him to exist, which usually when we're watching these movies, it's like, oh, we're going even if it's like a shitty society, that's better than just you know, hoofing it on your own.

When like you have like like they even say, like you have raiders, and you have like gangs like the court aceps and the infected are a problem, but at least those are predictable. It's the people that have very different incentives that you have to worry about because you know, if you just kill everyone you come across, like who's on your side? Who just wants to take from you? These are all questions you have to worry about outside of the quarantine. So I would not want to die to the humans in this world.

I would rather just die to the Court deceps because then I know I'm dead. Yeah, like you could be turned into like like because they say slavers and all kinds of stuff. Yeah yeah, slavers. Yeah like that and that for me like that. You know, that's the thing about the Walking Dead, like that joke of oh the walking Dead or the people, then do something with that, because all that ever is is like people who don't want to share their supplies, all right, But there's more complexities to that, and I don't know if the show is going to get into them in this universe.

But the fact that there is already kind of like a framework and a structure of this universe, and it's not just disparate groups of people roaming the lands, like that's not what's going on here. There is a people are being put to death by the government in this, So there is some semblance of control going on. And you know, you know, credit to Neil Druckman in the creation of the game to inject something like the Fireflies in. But that's the thing that makes this better than something that's maybe a comic book or something similar, because it's a video game. There's things that you had to do in the game that were introduced as plot points that you had to interact within the game and do, and because they're now in the show, it increases the complexity of the show in a direction that feels unique and different and less likely just people roaming around, you know, fighting zombies and running away from the next zombie thing to the next zombie thing and we got to find food and it's like, how many times have we seen this?

And actually, like, speaking of the game, they actually the actress that plays Marlene plays Marline in the game Marl Dandridge and the fire and she's the head of the Fireflies. She's a kind of this rebel group who, as I mentioned before, like they don't like I guess how much power it seems the government has. It's also a bit unclear like what they want before this. But obviously we find out Ellie is immune to the virus, so what does that mean the Fireflies want to take her somewhere for something Like I'm gonna try even though I know where it's going hot because I know it's actually following the game quite closely, not going to go into spoilers, but obviously it's around the fact that Ellie is immune and what does that mean and can they leverage that to potentially do something for humanity?

Joel just you know, she's a means to an end for him right now. We'll see if that maintains. My guess is probably not. And but yeah, and the reason Joel even knows Marlene is it's kind of implied that his brother is involved with the Fireflies to some extent. I don't know if he's a true believer or he just does jobs for them, but that is the connection he has to them, and he's not really he's an opportunist, as we see, like he's willing to get rough go outside the law, like we see him selling drugs to a guard and yeah, he's doing it to get machinery to help his brother, to get a car, to help his brother.

But like Joel will do whatever he thinks he needs to do to get what he wants. And that's key to Joel, right is like he's not as good allow just like you know, split your throat right in front of you. But he's also willing to blur the lines of what's good and bad if he thinks, if he thinks what he's doing is justified and we're getting hints of that. And I like that they also introduce the character of Tests, because I obviously she's a She's a huge part of the story, at least in the first game. Yeah, and I like that they don't, you know, I'm glad that it's ANATURV.

You know, Annie Worshing is an actress. She's fantastic in Bosh. She could have played the role just Biden, I think. I mean again, I don't maybe she's busy. I don't have any idea why they cast anaturv love anatourv infringe.

So I'm always happy to see her in things, especially opposite Pedro Pascal. But you know, like you said, ultimately this is really the Pedro Pascoal and Bella Ramsey hour, and I think it's probably going to be more or less the entire show because the game is Yeah. So yeah, you know a lot more tests earlier on in the games, and it seems like we got a lot more test. We got a lot of tests in this episode, I would say tests and Joel like post time skip where the two core characters and you kind of get like Test is a badass and she's like level headed and like people don't want to fuck with her. But she's also like where Joel is almost like a dog off his leash, She's like, even in times where she's getting the shippy out of her, like, can maintain her cool and is a bit more calculated and rational.

And I think that's why her and Joel worked well together, and they have a history. The game kind of has that too, where it's like they maybe had some sort of romantic thing, but it's like not super formal, but really their partners, like their work like work partners, and they do sketchy smuggling shit together basically. Yeah, and that's what they're doing now. And I think that, you know, ultimately, this first episode didn't really have to do anything other than introduce us to the main players. You know, Padroscoll and Bella Ramsey and again anatur V and Gabriel Lunar are there in small doses, but it didn't have to do anything other than introduce us to them and really give us a sense of the world that these characters are inhabiting and doing a lot of world building.

And I think if we look at the first episode primarily as world building and introducing us to the characters, which is realistically all it's being asked to do in this first episode. I think this first episode is really successful. And I think even if it is a little heavy handed with you know, trying to tell a story that you could watch this first episode and theoretically be done right, this first episode tells a self contained story. I think the way this episode opens with you know, obviously this kind of setting up of the court asps to then Joel's intro and his twenty years prior, and then you kind of have it all come back when they get stopped by this you know, feder agent right at the end and he sees this flashback of his daughter and that sets him on this path to finally standing up.

I feel like they do a pretty decent job in a way that again, like I can tell you, the best success of this show is that I forget it's based off of a video game. That's when the show is being the most successful, is I forget that this is a video game show. Because ultimately, again as bad as most video game things have been that we've seen, if I can forget that it's based off of the video game, that's a massive success. Like I knew almost exactly how the citrusis Sarah was gonna play out because, like I said, it plays very similar to the game, and I was still like shit, Like I still felt like nervous and anxious, and even like certain scenes like from the back of the car, from her perspective and you follow her and you see the house on fire and you see the Austin skyline, like I've seen all of that, and I was still like, damn, what's gonna happen?

Like and even there was like a part of me it's like is she going to survive this? Or like how how is she gonna die? And I still like the dramatic tension was still there. So I'm like, you know, even though I know what's going to happen, I was still completely engaged. And there's something to be said for that.

Well that again, I think that just speaks to the that speaks to the exact same thing I'm saying, like when we forget what this is being based off of a video game that I know the story beats of, or a video game that you love that you've played, that you're invested in the narrative partially because of how much you love the game, but you can just get engaged like that. That's not easy, and that's crossing two bridges at the same time that most creators and showrunners or directors and screenwriters have a hard time doing just one of those things. Again, we can name all the bad video game things, and there are so few good video game things, to the point where I'm not sure we still really have had any amazing video game things.

I think it's just people saying like, well, it's not completely trash, like the original Mortal Kombat's not completely terrible. It's fun. I will I will not stand for the Sonic the Hedgehog slander. I like Sonic the Hedgehog, but it's the exception that proves the rule. Man, it really is like it in a lot of ways, Like it was surprising Sonic was good.

Nobody was like, man, that Sonic movie was just as good as the first one. They're like, no, no, this is a good video game movie. You guys should go see it. Like I had to convince people to go see Sonic because they were assuming it was just going to be a complete train rank. Yeah, the second one obviously people like, but people like the first or the first one.

Actually, people were like, I mean, I mean we were not gonna get it the first one. Actually it was it seems to have a lot stacked against it, so it was sonic teeth and all. Yeah, but it does seem and you know, Uncharted critically had mixed reviews, but was commercially quite successful, but again doing the thing that everybody else has done, which is telling in Indiana Jones Adventure. So yeah, But I guess my point is, like the last few years have seen it does seem like the at least the public sphere has shifted on these video games transper Like people are are more open and like actually enjoying them well, and it feels like they look at the game and instead of saying, well, how can we make this the easiest and quickest way so that the people who like it will continue to like it, they're actually caring about putting the effort forward.

Like that would be the thing that I feel like you could say about movies based off of video games, the same thing you could say about video games based off of movies. Nobody is actually putting in effort. They're just assuming that you're going to engage with this product because of the name, notoriety alone. Be it mortal Kombat the movie or Iron Man the video game. Like the expectations of why you're engaging with those products may seem different, but they're eerily similar.

You know, the IP and that's why you're engaging. And that used to be, at least in many people's minds who were making the stuff, that was enough. And I'm glad that we seem to be in a time now where that is not only not enough, but that's not even where I'm coming into this, as I just want to make something for the fans of the show, no or those game. I want to make something that people who aren't already fans of this will be interested and engaged by, and that is something that I think, like you just said, maybe we're finally in a time and place where that is something people care about with video games. They've cared about it for forever with books and then comic books.

Maybe video games are finally going to get their due in a different medium from the one that they've been in. Not saying we need an Elden Ring movie or a Borderlands movie for that matter, because again, those things are already telling a story, but there are plenty I know with a screen I buy Craig Mason of all people. So again I'm not complaining, but I'm also glad that we seem to be in a time where the people that are making these things actually seem to care about the things to begin with, not just people showing up because they know what it is, which is super cynical to say, but that's what it was for the longest time. I'm also gonna be interested to see if after this, because I'm i mean, maybe the season sucks, I'm gonna go out gone on a limit, say between the early reviews and like that what we've seen in no way it's it's it's gonna be at least like well received.

It may not be like the best thing all everybody's going to be generally well receive. If we're gonna like it, it's not gonna it may not reinvent the wheel, but it doesn't necessarily have to. But I'm gonna see if I wonder if that opens more doors for like Neil Drugman to do like more television movies, and then if that leads to other creatives in the video game space making that transition, and like I'm specifically thinking of like Hideo Kojima, l rog Yeah, yeah, and he's been because like these people have been rumored, and sometimes these video game creators are involved in the adaptations and things like that, but like Neil Dreckman actually directing episodes, it's like quite hands on, and I don't know how much different directing a game because using actors versus a movie is or TV show, But it's obviously not something that's commonly done.

So that's just a random quirk that could come out of this that could be interesting to follow well. And and again I'm I'm totally with you. You know, anytime something like this happens where it kind of shakes the tenets of expectation with a genre that everybody feels like they already know what they're going to be getting with video game stuff is terrible and nobody is going to watch it, and why should we care the fact that something comes out like this and people are like, oh no, this is good and we're all on board and we want to watch the next episode. Yeah, people are going to take notice, and it will not, like you said, God of War and everything else is not going to take long before we've got Christopher Judge playing Credos for real, you know, what I mean, Like it's it's not We're not far away from that anymore.

And I think that's a that's promising. Again. I hope that this show lands it and all the reviews more or less upset it will. It doesn't have to do anything other than tell the story of the first game, like come on, yeah, like yeah, I mean, I mean, it's it's a layup, Like that's I'm saying, like they don't have to try that hard. They don't have to.

If they really didn't want to do they wouldn't have to. Drugman's done the work and he's crafted like a really good foundation, Like he already took the risk and said, here's a story that works, and that's really just you know, can wey take that from one medium to another, change some things, but keep the spirit of it. And I think they will and I'm yeah, I'm looking forward to see more of the Joel Ellie. That's the one thing I leaved is like I want to see more of the Joel Elie dynamic and what does that look like? And that's gonna grow throughout the season.

I think that's probably the one thing that the first episode doesn't really give us a lot of feeling for but it sets the foundation for what that's for why Joel would be attracted and I mean attracted in a sense of like a paternal way towards a character like Ellie, right, And I'm completely with you, you know that is the thing that you know, we've kind of been mentioning is going to be what drives the success or failure of the show moving forward is how well they playoff of one another. And I'm excited, you know, I'm excited to see where the show goes, and I'm excited to see if by the end of the season, I'm just as excited for more video game adaptations as I am now because watching this, like by the end of it, I was like, this is just an HBO show.

I don't even care if this is based off of a video game. And that for me was maybe another thing that Mason and Druckman were thinking about when they were writing this, is can we get you invested in this without having video game knowledge or any even investment in that video game. And I think if you're watching this and you don't know the last of us, you're watching this fresh and all you know is what you've seen, I think by the end of it, I would be interested to see what's in that skyscraper, what are they going towards? And you know what, I, as someone who knows, can't wait. And I'm assuming if you don't know where this is going, you're more excited.

So yeah, HBO's got another success on their hands. What a surprise, I will say. And for the for like the purpose of this podcast, I'll avoid, I guess, trying to say, like what do I think will happen next? Because at least this season, I feel like I know what's gonna happen right more or less, so I will try to keep that stuff off the plate when we talk about it. But like when there's things that haven't happened in the game, I think I can kind of deep dive that a bit more.

But I just feel like it may not be that fun for I assume probably most people that listen to this are, you know, like a gamer type of crowd, but I don't. I mean again, like it's a good enough show that necessarily you don't have to be a gamer to enjoy this show. You don't have to be a gamer to enjoy my show. I mean that probably to our podcast, guess, I don't know. I have no idea.

Again, I would assume that I would have played the game, but yet I have true Yeah, that's true. My point is I will try to avoid going too far, you know, saying like, well, this is what I think happens, because I know what happens. Yeah you think huh you're thinking real hard on that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so but yeah, the next time we do one of these, we're gonna be talking about the second episode of the first season, which is, like you had mentioned, directed by Neil Druckman, and it is titled Infected and maybe I get the feeling we might be seeing a clicker in this second episode. Yeah, that was We didn't see the clickers, which is like the full form of the zombie.

Basically, we kind of saw one hinted at it in the wall, but yeah, we haven't seen what they look like. So that'll be interesting to see how how that all plays. Actually, one last thing we didn't talk about. The opening credits was kind of like Game of the Game of Thrones. Oh, it was so gushrooms, it was so good, and it's so good.

It was so good, and then the music was just like the theme of the game So going back to your point about the music, I did, like really like the opening credits, and I mean they fucking cracked opening credits, Like just have shit pop out of the wall and it kind of looks like pulsating and weird and city is it and we're just gonna all of our shows and you know what, your sons of bitches, you got me, That's what I'm saying, Like this doesn't feel like a half court shot. This feels like a layup, like you're adapting The Last of Us. Wow, Like and you know what, there's something to be said about executing, like a fucking like like reinventing, and like just execute well. And HBO executes. And sometimes I want to go to a restaurant that's fusion, and sometimes I just want to eat a really good hamburger or hot dog.

And there is something to be said for, like you said, executing, just I've got a great thing and I just have to do it, do it again just as well as someone else did, like and it's win win. I think for people that don't know The Last of Us, it is giving them that like, Wow, I'm having a fucking thirty star Michelin Meal or whatever. And then for like people like me, they're just executing and so like who which to the point I was saying, who is this sport? Like, maybe it's for everyone and we get different things, but it's all good. Agreed, Agreed.

I'm I'm excited to see where this goes. HBO. Yeah, man, they hit it out of the park last year with hot D. I mean, I think we were both surprised, and yeah, I'm not surprised this is good. I'm really not.

I'm just surprised at how good of a job it's doing already taking a step maybe maybe not like a complete step to the right, but like a forty five degree step from the from the video game and kind of doing its own thing and really planting its own flag as opposed to just saying, look at the flag over here, we're on its flag pole. It's like we're going to do our own thing, even if it is what they've already done. So so until then, you can find you shar and I over at weirdingwaymedia dot com, which is the link link Tree, which is the homepage for all of the shows over the weirding Way Media network, including this one. We did a game of Throne show last year if you want to listen to our thoughts on that.

And yeah, we're doing this for the foreseeable future, for the next what ten weeks, thirteen weeks, whatever it is, however this long this show is, so you can always find that, along with this show and everything else over at weirdingwaymedia dot com. And yeah, we'll be back to talk about the second episode next week. You know, like, share like the podcast, Share the podcast with your friends of mushrooms and men. You know, we'll last this podcast, So here you go, sport. We appreciate it, and we'll catch you on the next episode.