15: Executive Decision

Hello everyone, and welcome to yet another episode of Onsagal, the only podcast that exists, all about our friend. Well it's not our friend. Probably wouldn't be our friends after hearing this, No, he would Steven Seagal, the Man, the myth, the Russian citizen, Stephen Seagal. Yeah. So on this episode of the show, I'm joined once again, as always by my good friend.

He is the co host of this show, Man about Town, the big dog himself. This is his yard and you are not going to come and eat from his bowl, mister Trevor Gumbelow. That's a that's an interesting intro. Man about Town. I do.

I do occasionally put on the ritz, right, like taco Yeah, like taco. I do dress like a million dollars Trooper. I'm trying mighty hard to be like Gary Cooper. Are you trying to have a first act plot twist in your movie? I am not, sadly, but you know what does executive decision?

Excuse me, sir, May I help you? Sir in an age? Excuse me, sir, may I help you? When terrorism knows no boundaries and the level of threat I have a message for the American President knows no limits. I am in control of like three four three, sir, I don't think this is about hostages.

What are you talking about? A shipment of the nerve talks and DC five was hijacked. What are you saying nerve gases on board? Yes, sir him they plan to use the DC five in the airplane together to detonate here over Washington. When global response is routine, London is demanding immediate action.

There's a hatch on the belly of the seven forty seven near the nose. We could dock there. I know you wrote the book on assaulting hijacked aircraft, but this is five miles above the earth. I don't think we have any other options, and advanced technology double seven can accomplish miracles. What are you doing up here?

Who the hell else is going to do with you? Opening the other act a life or death decision. Help is a good movie on its flight. For four hundred hostages in a plane, keep it going, or forty millions of willions on the ground. You can forget Washington.

There's enough nervation here to wipe out half the eastern seaport. Will come down to a choice between the unthinkable, the Pentagon and he's shressed down and the impossible reach our air space in eighty five minuts. Hatch got me closed down planes, order the A fourteens to intercept the seven forty seven. Good Russell, I'm losing to draw the airplane. Halle Berry, John Leeguis on movie and Steven Seagal get your brothers, invites you and I'm really going to shoot this plane town, aren't we It's June late.

They've already crossed the line to fasten your seatbelts. This is directly from the president himself. Everybody, are you with your words? That's to cut the plan executive decision, which is what we're talking about on this episode. Because yes, ladies and gentlemen, you may have heard of this movie before.

But I would go out on a limb and say that this might be the best movie we've talked about on this show. Oh but m I know, I like the average films a lot. This Sky this is better, This is like, Okay, this is the best. Okay, I'm just going to say it now. This is the best die Hard on a movie other than die Hard.

Okay, Well, I mean I still think the Underseiege films are a little better than this, but this is still a great night. I'm sure I've said what I said. I just this movie is well written. You don't think so, like again, Friends with Richard, under Siege two aside, Like this movie is an actual movie though, But I'm not saying it's not well written. I'm just saying for entertainment value, I think underseage films are just a smidge better.

That's all I'm saying. There's more, there's more bombast in those movies, for sure. I'm not saying this isn't a great This is a quieter movie than under very well done film. It is a very well done film. It doesn't rely as much on gunfire and explosions and shit, it's very tense.

It doesn't even rely on Steven's a goal. Oh yeah, you'll see after that. But it's kind of brilliant how they do it, although they kind of spoil it in the trailer, so that well, they spoil it in the trailer only if you know that that's the scene and that's what happens the scene. They spoil it in the trailer with hindsight, you know, again, watch again watching the movie in ninety five when it came out, or ninety six when it came out, and also with hindsight and the ability to read the reviews online, people were shocked by the twist I mean and the twist of this movie. I would say the twist in this movie is is pretty interesting because the twist of this movie is Steven Seagal the hero nine times out of ten in these movies, Yeah, just dies.

Well, they kind of pull it. They pull it Drew Barrymore slash Janet Lee thing where you think they're going to be the main star of the film and they're killed off in the first act. You know, it's well, come on, you have to admit they kind of promoted it as a Steven Seagal film, kind of like they promoted Scream as Drew Barrymore is the star or Psycho as Janet Lee was the star of the film. They kind of support your expectation that in that regard. No, I would I would agree.

And what's funny is like this movie, I think this movie does a poor job in the way that Scream doesn't. This movie doesn't have Seagal in the poster, which I felt like was a missed opportunity to really help not sell the movie. But Sell the plot twist. Yeah, yeah, I think so too. I don't know, did you?

Did you see though, there is an alternate version of the poster with Seagal's giant orange pumpkinhead floating in the distance. Well, yeah, it's basically in the same poster, except behind Kurt Russell's head is Steven Seagal's face right there. So if you look at the poster, now there's a spot where it says Kurt Russell executive decision, and above that is some text in this version of the poster that someone made on the internet, I would assume or Seagal made it himself. It's Kurt Russell, who again his face is done in this kind of stylized color of the poster, because the poster's main colors are black, very orange the person and again this is edited and put together in a studio somewhere in Hollywood by a marketing team.

The version of the poster that has Seagal's head on it is made by someone on the internet, and it looks like it but they're attempting to replicate this kind of orange stylized look of the Kurt Russell head and instead you literally have Steven Seagal's fat, bloated face, because it's not even Seagal of this time in place. This is still peak Seagal. It's Seagal of like now or like maybe six years ago, that bloated pumpkinhead floating in the kind of disembodied in kind of like the four you know, the background while Kurt Russell's faces much though that you wonder if they're trying to respect Seagal or insult Seagal with that poster. But I will say, whoever put that poster together, good on you for doing what they should have done with this movie.

To begin with. They should have had Segal. They frankly should have had Segal front and center on the poster. Well, I think that's right. I think.

I mean, you're if you're going to use Seagal to try to sell your film, but they're not use the trailer trailer again. The question I have for you is, like Psycho, this movie Scream, they all do the same thing. They kill a well known established actor in the first Scream. It's ten minutes Psycho, it's the first forty five. This movie, it's the first thirty.

What is like you said, are how do you sell your movie without disappointing the audience in that the movie they expected that they were coming to see is not the movie they're getting. And scream, Oh, Drew Barrymore is in this movie must be Drew Barrymore in this movie Seagal must be a Seagal movie. Here's what you do. Here's what you do to not disappoint the audience that came for the actor. You put another actor of equal regard or higher as the second lead, so that when that character dies, you still have Kurt Russell to carry the film.

Agreed, which I think to this film success, to Scream success with Nev Campbell, to Psycho's success with literally that into this film is exceptionally well cast. This one has a terrific gust. And that's the and that's the problem with this movie. This movie is too good to be on this show. This is a real like, this is a well made actor.

But we didn't. We didn't. We didn't create this podcast just to talk about the shitty Segal. No. No, but that's actually it's it's a it's a different issue than that.

This film says. I believe, this is my belief here with this movie, we're gonna put Stevens to goal in this movie as a as a teaser, as a as a spoiler, as a plot twist. But then we're actually going to write a good action movie that people don't seem to give a shit about doing with Seagal. Segal wishes he was in this movie longer. That's how good this movie is.

Do you think they killed them off because they are afraid to kind of ask for script changes they kept them longer? I wonder, I genuinely wonder, because again, that's that's kind of the big question here that I have for this is is the decision to kill Segal in the first act of this movie a decision that they would have made regardless of who it was or the fact that it's Segal. Did that motivate them to get rid of him? I don't know. I would assume whoever it was was always going to get killed off.

But at the same time, like you said, it's a known thing people in the industry talk. At this point, people he's been working in the industry for like eight years. At this point, people know that he's a pain in the ass to work with. At this point, people know he wants to change people. At this point people know he might take over the entire film.

That's I think that's what they were afraid of. They wanted what they wanted to do. They did. They did something I think very kind of impressive. They got the Siagal they wanted without having to do with the Ciagal.

They didn't want the Siagal, they didn't even need. They figure, if we get rid of him in the first third, we don't worry about this motherfucker trying to change our script because he has nothing to do with it anymore. Right, And the script and the script they wrote with him in it, the parts of the script I have him in it are not are pretty good, are really well written. I thought they don't give him much to do, but they don't need to. But he's actually there's a but he has a He has a authority and a and a kind of He gives a good performance as the character, better than better than you know he should have.

I mean better than a dessert. I mean it was a throwaway character of a special ops leader, you know, trying to in taking his team into But that's the funny first, that's the funny thing about this movie. Though it's a Stephen Seagal movie where Steven Seagal acts like, you know, is Steven a goal where he accidentally dies and all the other characters are like, I know, but like but you know what I mean, Like this movie is set up to be a Steven Seagal movie where you know that everything's going to be fine because Seagal saves the day, and then all of a sudden, Seagal is dead and you have literally the other dudes who are without their leader now and a guy who's just a desk jockey. He's just a desk consultant for the Army intelligence now yeah Oliver Platt as well.

Yeah, so two desk jockeys and then a bunch of essentially like these are the followers, not the lecial ops, yeah, special assassin not assassins, but a special Forces team. And it's I like this idea of like, oh no, what do we do now that the like are you know, it's essentially the question like who serves Gotham City Whence Batman is dead? It's that question, right, who's going to step up when you're special forces leader who's amazing at everything because he's Seagal? What happens when he dies? And it's like, you guys have to step up to the plate and figure out a way to solve this massive puzzle, because this movie ends up being a puzzle when they're on the plane, like a massive kind of escape room almost.

They set it up brilliantly. The character, Like God, the first scene, the very first scene, you see it's not Kurt Russell, it's Siagall. Yep, it's Seagall and his band of of of Sigus Navy Seal special Forces or whatever they're they're infiltrating this this mansion looking for these chemical weapons, just to find out they're gone, that they've been stolen, and they're acting on information from Kurt Russell's character exactly. And and then you know, stevens All kind of has a small kind of vendetta against Kurt Russell fir giving him the bad informations, a vendetta against whoever did it right, because he loses, he loses one of his agents in the process. They're too late, and he's like, well there, he doesn't believe they were too late.

He believes it was bad information. So he's like, well, you got my men killed. I'll never forgive you for that. And it's like all right whatever, Sorry, Yeah, I mean yeah, And this nerve gas is apparently so deadly that one drop of it could kill higher room, a room of people. It's kind of it kind of it's kind of like The Rock I was about to say, it's it's that kind of nerve agent that it does exist in reality, but it would not be this easy to get, No, and it would be a much would be a much bigger deal if it got out, Like you know what I mean, Like this is this is like shit you don't mess around with.

Yeah, I mean, like I said, it's it's very much kind of This does have a lot of similarities to The Rock As sibilarious Air Force one too. Yeah, Nevis desk Jockey has to become the hero when the when the main guy gets taken out, you know, in the Rockets Michael b In this, it's Steven Seagal. Yeah, but there's lot is very similar. Um, there's a lot of a lot Delta force in this with the airplane and the hijackers. I love that.

Ask you a question? Can I ask you a question? Though? Could this movie be made today? Exact same plot, exact same villain, is the exact same end game?

I don't think this movie could be made after Night after two thousand and one, do you That's That's what I'm asking because the main villain of these films, they pretty much say they're Muslim, these are Muslim terrorists. I don't have a problem with that. It's the fact that he in the film you see him practicing praying on you know, doing his prayer, which is you know, I don't have anything against that, but it's it's almost like the film isss saying, you see someone do that, be careful, and they try they try to diffuse it by the one one of his tentiment saying this is not what Allah intended, this is not you know what, which I felt was I like that twist. Yeah, But it's almost like the filmmakers are trying to say, no, no, no, this is not what we mean.

Right We're Yeah, I get it, But wasn't too little too late in that regard? I don't know. Could they make this movie today the way they made it? Then again, I don't I think he would have like you know, activist groups up in arms, which again, like I understand, I mean, after nine to eleven, the Muslim community just became this the super villain to people, not all people. I'm just saying that.

Unfortunately muslim saying came not all people. Well, it just seems like after nine eleven, Muslims became public enemy number one two to a lot of people. Like if you're in an airport and you see and someone you know, if you saw a Muslim sitting in your same same you know air you know, the same same not the same aisle, but the same you know where you wait for the plane. Oh yeah, like the in the seat in seating area, Yeah, yeah, in the in the you know what would you think? You know what goes through your head?

Right? And I'm with you, like I get it. You know. That's the thing. There was a little, i will say, the whole thing with that, Like I don't know.

It was as an adult now who lived through nine to eleven and seeing this movie, it was a it's skewed a little close. It was a little like we're gonna blow up Washington, d C. And again the landing, the crashing the plane into the Pentagon is really like the lease of their worries. Yeah, because then the nerve agent gets into the air and it kills you know, oh my god, it will kill Hamstern Seaboard. Love that phrase, love Eastern Seaboard as a phrase, and then they have the graphic like the gas spreading and it's like it'll kick out.

That was That was. That was the heavily used trope in the nineties where they showed graphic of a red thing covering like an outbreak. Have you seen outbreak? No, but I've seen an evolution which does the same thing. Well outbreak.

They had this map of like this is what happens to day one or week one, and then you just see that and eventually you see the red cover up the entire map of you by day thirty two. The words taken over. It's their way of saying this is like heavy shit. Yeah, I just have to say Eastern Seaboard and I know you're talking serious. You don't need to show it.

Yeah, but I again, I think you would. I think you would ruffle some feathers. I don't think they would outright say like these are Muslim characters, this is not Islam. They would be like there, they might be a radical group, and they are. I mean again, they are a radical group in this movie.

They're fucking terrorists, like they flat up stay there there Islam, they flat out say that they're an extremist organization like there You know again, extremist organizations don't represent the populace, they represent a part of it. So if people are getting upset about this movie or were or could get upset about Muslims being portrayed as terrorists, well I feel like more less, less offensive, more lazy at this point is the way I would look at it, because I'm worried much more about domestic terrorists at this point, and I am than I am someone who's in the Middle East. But yeah, I'm not worried about a Muslim walking into my building. I'm more worried about an extremist like Christian or whatever, wrecking in my fucking building because there are more of them here than there are.

You know, there are more of those folks possible. So yeah, I would say, not to sound controversial, I would say the US breeds more terrorists than any other fucking country in the well through our actions and our words, because exactly but drones. Drone strikes in the Middle East against civilians does nothing but create more terrorists because they are now mad at US for killing their family, and the quickest way to radicalize someone is by killing their family by accident, which is what they talk about that in this movie. They talk about this idea of like where is the line of radicalization? And are people like because you see, like you mentioned some of David Suchette, who is the fact that he's the villain in this movie fucking cracks me up to no end because David Suchette or David Suchet does not look Middle Eastern at all.

He his dad is his dad was Lithuanian Jewish and his mom was his mom was was was Anglican, but Russian Jewish on her he was born in London. But he doesn't he you know what he's famous. You know what he's famous for. Right, Yeah, he doesn't look like Pero in this film. But I also contend he doesn't look like Pero when he doesn't have a mustache.

Anyway, if you look at pictures to him on like Google, I would say they added brown makeup to his face. But I agree he doesn't. That's what I'm saying, Like he does not, he doesn't look Middle Eastern. But you know what, I don't fucking care because David suchet is amazing in this movie, he's a prey, such a good villain, he's such as yeah, he's a nasty villain, and he's one of those villains I really appreciate. I really appreciate the screenwriters in this film, Jim Thompson and John Thompson, Jim and John Thomas, because a lot of the times you have the villain go Okay, well it's over, I'm dead, and in this movie he goes, nah, he's fucking shoots the pilots, and I'm like, give the villain.

Don't give the villain any redeemable qualities. He needs to be a battye to the end. He needs to figure out how to use his last breath to continue his his work, his belief, his rat is zelotry. He needs to do it to the end. He bullshits the government.

They're going to give him what he wants, but he's still gonna blow up the plane anyway, right. He was mean, he was gonna he never intended to survive. No, no, but they but even his own terrorist. But he don't know that. No, thanks you for didn't know that.

Because Hens Room. When they find out what his plan, he's like no, They're like, no, you cannot do this. This we didn't sign up, We didn't sign up for this. This is not what Ala intended or whatever he said. And you know, like, yeah, you're right.

He fucking shoots the pilots. Yeah I like that, Like he really liked he There is nothing redeemable about Najie Hassan film. You want this fucker to die and you want to fucking Dike quick. Yeah, oh yeah. I was soup like like by the end of this movie, I was like cheering with the movie.

Granted, this is the first time I'd ever seen this movie. I've never seen it. I'd seen it probably when it first came to video in like ninety seven or whatever, but after that kind of never I kind of saw clips of it from the night But this is the first time I've watched it in full in a long time. This movie is legit in my top ten action movies of all time. Now, the amount of like ramping up tension that this movie does throughout it doesn't like, this movie doesn't stop ramping up the tension until the essentially last two minutes, because it goes from bad add to worse to unbelievably worse to like just so insane that by the end of it you're just like exhausted with the rest of the cast of the movie.

Well, they do something in this film that I thought was kind of brilliant. Um, the heroes don't meet the villains until like near the end of the film. That's when they meet the villains the movie. That's that's the only time they get to meet. That's it, because they do something really good in the film where they keep them on the under of the plane and they have them be silent and very very quiet, and it's kind of brilliant how they like.

That kind of helps ramp up the tension because you don't want the terrorists having any hint because their whole plan hinges on them being very secretive and doing something. They don't just want to hop on the plane and take out the terrorists. They know what they need to do. They know there has to be something done before they can do this. They need to diffuse the bomb.

They need to make sure that it's under control because they know if they try to take out the terrorists first hand. Well, there's a twist that the terrorists want to kill the people. Yeah, well they don't want to have Okay, Well, and another thing is they don't want to kill the terrorists because later they find out that none of the terrorists or henchmen have the detonator. They have a they have a mole basically on the plant plant. Yeah, a plant on the plane with the remote to be inconspicuous and not you know.

And when they find that, I'm like, oh shit, plans change and the shadow into They foreshadow it in the movie and you don't even realize it when the woman is sitting down and the guy's like, stupid woman and she's like, I'm so sorry. Like they're planting those seeds early on. It's yeah, it's this movie like and I don't want to speak super hyperbolically, but this is how you write an action movie. Well, the fact remains is that this is not a film where it's just gunfire and go in, you know, balls out, just come in shooting, you know. And it's no, it's very meticulous, you know, because I mean it's it's like a puzzle they have to put together.

Yeah, of it is. It's a stuff about this because they know one move out of place could fuck up this whole mission and kill everyone on the plane. This is a stealth action movie. It was telling a friend of mine that he should watch this movie, and I was like, imagine Air Force One, but like a stealth version of that, because like air Force One, I don't know if you've seen it recently, it's it's a fucking jingoist nightmare. There is so much Rara America shit, like it's a it's a lot.

It's oh, it's it's to the poll America. FU. Yeah, if you made the movie today, people would think that you were being satirical in how like we don't run from terrorists, we don't negotiate, Like that's okay, whatever, fine, And then he's like, well you will negotiate with me, and it's like, oh haha, got him. The fact remains, though I mentioned Air Force One for this exact reason that you mentioned in this movie an air Force one, that movie has to take place on air Force One for anyone to be able to shoot guns inside of the airplane, because there's a big as airplane. Well no, it's actually a different thing, and they mentioned it in the movie.

They go air Force one is triple reinforced, so you know, you can't just shoot bullets out. The bullets ricochet, and in this movie. The moment that the bullets hit the exterior shell of the plane. Yeah, people get sucked out. Like that's the end of the movie.

Is the tension ramps up with David Suchet shooting essentially a window that causes the entire people to get sucked out. Yeah, that's his move of desperation. But that alone, like you said, this stealth aspect of this movie, the aspect of the movie that they're having to do everything without force because the moment they use force, it has to be it. I like that, and that adds so much tension to this movie that it be like this. These like a movie like these tend to not have I think the fact that, well, here's the characters.

We gotta give it to the characters. Though partially two. I mean, you know, everything is Karrot Russell's great. He plays this. He basically is a brains guy who sets up missions.

He does do the missions. He just sets them up and you know, gives them planning. Doctor dexter Riley, and that's why they take him on the plane because they can't really do it without him. Um, then you have I think it's a little bit more to it that because it's the whole Like steagalls like, I want you there because last time, well yeah, like he's like, last time you gave me bad information. I want you to come along.

But Seagall's also the one who is you know, like, oh, I know about the seat. Fuck dude, I just want to get this out in the open. The fucking way they get on the airplane is that's that's that's where this that's where this movie started, right, That's what I want to get you. They bring up Pawn, they bring on the mission. Oliver Platt replaced.

He invents he invented this thing where connects to the bottom of the plane so they can sneak in through the bottom without the terrorists knowing. And if you and originally that was supposed to be it was originally supposed to be Oliver Platt would do it and then he would just leave go back to the White House. But circumstances change. There's there's one of the one of them, one of the Special Forces guys knock something off that and it fucks up the whole thing. And well, I think that part of the movie is where I kind of was a little perturbed.

The the Dyson Miles Dyson, Joe Morton gets paralyzed somehow and he's blocking. The thing about this movie is they've created something that's so fucking outlandish, and the reason that it's like they created, I think is also so. The reason that a stealth bomber in F one seventeen has a vacuum hose on top of it is so that they could correct me if I'm wrong here transfer bomber cruise without the bomber coming home. So it's like midair refueling. It's like, instead of refueling with fuel, how do we midair refuel with I mean, that's that's like to me, Well, that's that's what.

That's what, that's what the initial reason for inventing this thing, that's why our Platt invented it. Yeah, you know, And but I think it's telling you that that is like that was where they started the script for this movie. They're like, we have this great idea for a stealth like how do we build a movie around a stealth like a midair stealth mission of a team getting onto an airplane and we have this idea of like a stealth bomber going underneath the plane and opening it, Like, how do we build a movie from that. But man, I'll tell you what effects are a little wonky. It's models and it doesn't look great.

But that scene is so good. Well, I mean it just goes to the pacing of the action. I mean the performances of Joe Morton, John Lguizamo. We haven't talked about John Leguizama that much, but he is for all intents and purposes, intents and purposes, he is the leader of the of the Special Forces. Once Sigal gets taken out, becomes the film second lead.

Kurt Russell is the main lead. Like Guizamo really fucking steps up to the plate. He is forceful, he is charismatic. He is great in this movie. I mean, none of the things you assume when you assume a John Leguizamo roll from the nineties, well you know, well, people have known John Leguizamo to play like you know, Latino gangsters or Italian plumbers or cross dresses or cross He was known basically for comedic roles, you know, as a lighthearted This is the first time he has a couple like smartass lines in the film, but mostly he's a guy who takes action.

Yeah. Also, Beaty Wong not known for being an action star. He's that is Yeah, that surprised me too. It's like Beati Wong known for being the scientist in Jurassic Park, being the psychologist in like Law and Order and shit, and he's playing stage actor by the way, Oh yeah, and he's playing a counter terrorist guy. Yeah.

No, and Whip and Whip Hubily Whip hub Whip Hubil, who doesn't get talked about enough in my opinion. I mean, he was in Top Gun, he was in Ruskies, he was species. Yeah, Whip Hubili is a great guy. I kind of always could I always kind of. He's with Ris rick Rossovich.

I think they were both in Top Gun. He looks very much like Rick Rossovich. I think rich Rosovich and and him were both in Top Guns. But no, you're right, like there are a lot of like character actors in this movie who don't get enough. I think enough credibly doesn't do much in the sty No, neither does Beati Wong for that matter.

I mean neither does Andreas Katsulas, who is great, who played the one armed man in Fugitive. Mary Ellen Trayer is in this movie for like two seconds. Don't they don't they kill her first? She just dies. Hallie Oh, Hallie Berry's in this movie.

Didn't even mention that, but halle Berry just finds Mary Ellen Trayner did. There's one thing they screw up in this movie. One thing, the whole thing at the end where Kurt Russell asked her out coffee. That was kind of I thought you were going to talk to the fact that, like, we didn't need that long of a flight ending scene where it's like Kurt Russell being actually walked through how to fly the plane. That I found that to be.

That didn't bother him. Act. It was just it was to set it up. It was over, it was over overdone. It was like three scenes worth of it, do you know what I mean?

They set it up. They do set it up in the beginning kind of you kind of know that's what he's got to deal with at the end. He's taking flying lessons. At the beginning, the first time you see him, he's in a plane and his instructor his face, you know, and instructors like you're ready, you're done. You know, you don't need anymore.

And any person who's seen any movie like it actually know, okay, this is going to come into play later right, plant payoff, plant payoff. Like, if a character is scared of something at the beginning of a film, you know that's gonna come into plays later in the film. I know, I genuinely like, I really really liked this movie. And again, I think it speaks to the character actors involved. I think it speaks to again, we didn't really talk about Seagal, but Seagal is dead in the first fifteen minutes in this I see that we're talking.

They put it this way. Does Seagal ever get onto the plane? Half of them does, sure, but Seagal never even makes it onto the airplane. Where two thirds of this film this this movie is two hours long because it takes thirty minutes to get onto the airplane and they have to kill Steven Seagale. Those thirty minutes.

Well, I mean, Steven Seagale basically knows he's fucked, you know, And there's that line of the trailer everybody hears we're not gonna make it, you are, and Seagale basically just gets sucked out of the plane dies. Oh it's a which actually it's a great little Steven Seagal mcquette flying out of the Yeah, that was funny, like, wow, Stevens a golf him where he dies? How the hell do they getting to do that? Or him to agree to that? Yeah, I mean I do, and said they were going to bring him back.

I mean, that's the thing he's not missed. But to be fair, But to be fair, I will say this much, I would have liked to have seen him in the movie. I mean, twist or not, Like, I would have liked to have seen what that movie with him in it looked like. Maybe maybe it would have been fucking terrible, right maybe, But then again, I think it would just would have been a power struggle with him and Kurt Russell over what to do. It would have been constantly like that could have been interesting though, that could be done interestingly, you don't think, but you don't want it like constantly you know, sure, I mean I agree, I agree with you.

Again, I'm just I'm more speaking to the idea of is is there still an interesting movie to be mined if the movie doesn't necessarily have to have Segal die? I say, yeah, I mean there's the same time. That's what makes this movie. So I never I never think a movie is unsalvageable. Well, I mean, there are times, but I think Seagal, if he had lived, there might have been something good to mine off of it.

Kurt Russell working off of each other. But these are two well, no, I'm not saying alpha males, because Kurt Russell in the film isn't really alpha mans. No, he's That's the thing that I really like about this movie is this is this is the everyman movie that just happens to have Seagal in it. There's no way Segal could ever be the everyman. This is the only way you do this movie is you have Segal either the villain or he eats shit.

In the first twenty minutes, I mean, he does what he does really well with the time he's given. Yeah, he acts like a print to Kurt Russell. Well, I mean, but that's that's his entire character. He's a believable swat team leader or whatever. People you know he You're like, oh, yeah, I believe he is the head guy, the leader of this of this you know, stealth mission.

He's an antagonistic dick took her Russell. I mean the scenes with Oliver Platt and Joe Morton, I thought they went really well. I mean, Joe Morton. I feel bad for Joe Morton in this movie, the fact that he just gets laid out for the Yeah, he's just laying on his back the entire movie. I mean, I get, I get what they were going for with him being paralyzed and all that, but it's just it didn't for me.

It didn't add anything like meant increase the stakes of the movie and up the tension. Really, they could have just kept him a lot. I mean, he could have kept him upright and still have him work with Oliver Platt to diffuse the bomb. They were leaving the hold of the plane anyways, nobody leaves the hold until the very end. They would have needed to be there anyways.

He wasn't good to go anywhere. I mean he would have because we need to have Oliver Platt defuse the bomb. But he could still could have done that. I mean, they could have had something else happened to The only idea I think the problem is there is no other way to get Oliver Platt as the only one diffusing the bomb unless laying him out. Unless you lay him out, and the part where they're getting on the plane because there's no other again, nobody dies on the plane.

None of the characters who get onto the plane die. They all survived. I was so shocked. And the passengers, no I'm talking about Kurt Russell John that was Amobe. None of them die.

Yeah, you would have thought, like there have been a couple of casualties, would have thought, I mean, you would have thought there would only be like two people left. But they're all again, it's weird. They all survive exactly. And Okay, I need to mention a character actor who I really like, who really is only seen for a couple of times, and that's Richard Real playing the air fire Marshal Sure sure, Like I really like that he got his moment like once the like he takes his shot at the terrorists before the terrors shoot him back, and he doesn't die, does he He doesn't die. No, he doesn't die.

You see him at the end of the movie. Yeah. I like how he has his hero moments in that film, like when you see him hide the gun, and you don't really see much of anything after that, Like he doesn't They don't show him again in the film until that scene, so you're wondering what was a point of that, right, and then it happens because he waits until the very right time to take this fucker out, or try to at least, because you got met. He's taken. He takes quite a few gunshots before he dies.

Who the leader? The leader guy? Oh my god. Well that's that's movie tropes for you. No, Richard real Is talk about a that guy actor.

He's like, He's like, when I think of that guy actors, he might be. He's a great that guy actor, though, he's a really good one. Jump to conclusions. Matt, it's a Matt that you with conclusions, Jump to there's a demist idea I've ever heard. I do love him in Office Space, I mean I love that movie in general.

There was a show called Grounded for Life in the early two thousands that he was great and he plays the father to h to a Donald Logs character to Donald Loe my god, Yeah, you ever heard of it? Gunded for Life? No, I mean, I just know Donald Logus. It was a sitcom. Donald Loge and Megan Price have three kids, and basically it's an Irish family, well not Irish, you know, no, and like it's an Irish come from Irish, you know, Irish stock.

There's yeah, but they're not like talking, they're not accents or anything, right, right, But yeah, like and he and Richard Real plays the father hit Donald Loge's father, and he's really funny. You should check it out. It's a good show. It's really just interesting. I mean, I like Donald Loge.

It's not hard to find. It's not hard to find online. But yeah, Richard really is really good. Um he played one of the villains in Free Willie. Oh my god, Richard really is just he's very very versatile.

Yeah, isn't God. Go look at his IMDb. Dude, it's like he's worked. He works like ten to twenty times a year, like a He's a non stop worker and working actor. That's what he is.

And he's never gotten the recognition he deserves it. He's a character actor. None of them do. That's the problem with character actors is you're so good and often well meaning. Only people like Tarantino were the ones giving you, like the lead role in the movie.

Right. Well, it's also it kind of goes back to what we were saying about Rick Rossofitch and Whip Hubii. I mean they were kind of I wouldn't see their character actors, but I think they were just kind of you know, background action guy. Yeah, if you can't get this guy, just hired one of them and they'll do it. Which you In this movie, you get to see like the nineties the nineties Middle Eastern looking actor lineup of like J Tavarre and who's the other one.

There's that comedian Sean Tobe who plays the the guy who gives RDJ his armor an iron Man. There's a comedian named Ahmed Ahmed who was in this film before he became a comedian. I think, oh, he was in Virtuosity. Oh I didn't know that. Yeah, but Ahmed Ahmed's in this film.

Marla Maples Trump, I did see that. Uh yeah. The actor that I was thinking of is Sayed Badreya, who's in this movie. He's uncredited, but you can see him. He was also an iron Man.

But it's it's just as like who's who of nineties mid character Yeah, yeah, character actors. And again, like you know, Sean Tobe obviously would go on to be an iron Man. So I think that's kind of what everybody knows him for now. I mean, you know, but David Suchet is the let's put it this way David. David Suchet is the least Middle Eastern looking actor of all the actors in this He is the is the like he's like the soul man yeah of action.

Even Andreas Kutsulis looks more Middle Eastern. I mean he's Greek obviously, so Greek Middle Eastern. In Hollywood, it's all the same to them, as far as they're concerned. Yeah, as far as they're concerned. And hey, how about how about J.

T. Walsh as the as the senator who wants to be this uh who's kind of has this presidential as David Suchet's white knight. Basically, I'm your white I mean, that's that character. I mean, this movie even went as far as to have that character in this might as well they might as well have called him Ellis. I mean that's my point, Like he is the Ellis of That's the thing that I did like about this movie is itch It like Undersiege one, like Undersiege two, it wears its inspirations on its sleeve, and like it's obviously die hard.

Yeah, you know, they have the prick who wants to negotiate with terrorists right end up getting fucked. Yeah. Well he he doesn't realize he's getting fucked, but the villain is like, you're fit when the time comes, be ridy. He thinks he thinks he's being the hero of the flight by negotiating tarret. He thinks he's gonna make everyone get on safely, not knowing that the terrorits has no intention of making this plane hit the ground.

That's the unmost unrealistic part of the entire movies. He shoots him in the fucking cockpit. That bullet would have flown out the window and killed all him. That's the most unrealistic part of this entire movie is point blanking JT. Walsh in the cockpit of the movie.

I'm surprised they didn't have Art Malik in this film. Oh is that the guy who plays the warden from The Mummy? No? He played the villain in True Lies. Oh?

Oh the guy with the hair? Yeah, k guy who the guy who had most one of the most absurd but hilarious death scenes in action movie history. You'll fire. I mean I'm pretty sure that that people who have never even seen them. I loved like he's great.

That's oh. In True Life is just a great action film. I'm not with all the anti Muslim bullshit in that movie. What I mean, I hate to sound like typically I'm not trying to defend it, but again, it was a different time. This is the same kind of movie like this is Me.

This is about as indefensible as true lies is. No, it's not defensible. There's no defense for this. But in movie doesn't have to your career in it. That's a downgrade.

Though. I'd love to your career. No, I love to your career. Why sorry, what what dhill are you talking about? Your career could have benefited You could have laid one of the flight attendants so she could just get mrked in the first five minutes of the movie.

I like and trainer. I liked this movie a lot. Yeah, we have to. But you can also recognize it's you can also recognize the problematic aspects of its well still, it's a very well made film. That's you know that, because that's the thing about nineties action films were notorious for their jingoistic you know, you know, I'm saying an air Force one dude, like that is holy shit, man, that movie is I mean, not I wouldn't say racist, but definitely nationalist.

Nationalist views of other countries. It's like it's like in the eighties, we're in every you know, every Russian. Everything in Russia was villains to us. You know, Red Dawn, the Russians were invading and they're the villains. Look at look at pro wrestling in the eighties, man, who are all the villains?

Ivankoloff, Iron, Sheli Volkoff, Iron, Chic. Yeah. Oh yeah, Oh, I mean if you were, if you were in the you know, if you live through the eighties, you know what we're talking about, Like anything Russian is is inherently evil. We're back to that, dude. We are back to that right now, we kind of I mean you, I mean people are just like everything Russian now is is hush hush, even though most of Russia disagrees with what Putin is doing.

But that's neither here nor there. We're not getting into politics here. Have seen Turbulence not yet with ray Leiota and Leota and Lauren Holly. Have you seen it? No, isn't any good.

I don't know, I've never seen it. I've always wanted to watch it. I kind of have a real soft spot for movies that take place in airplanes. No, I do I like. I like like movies that take place in airplanes have a have a kind of interesting like a thing about him because it's a closed space.

Right, it's there, there's no right, there's not just restriction. There are a lot of restrictions that are put on a movie script where it's set on an airplane, singularly that I appreciate when you can do it right. I thought nonstoppably am NSA was pretty good and that took place on an airplane. Never seen it. It's not bad.

You should check it out. I have not seen Turbulence. It has a really interesting cast, just people. I love Rayleota th oh me too. I mean Rayleiota is in one of my favorite movies, Good Fellas.

Wanted to be a Gangster. Yeah, as far back as I can remember, I always wanted to be a gangster. The way he talks is so weird. The way he laughs is so weird. It's the wanting in the Saint Many Saints of New Work.

He's I haven't seen it yet, isn't any good? Yeah? He should. I watched the entire of Sopranos before I watched New Work. Have you not, dude, I've been not busy with other things, dude, I've been working.

Yeah, but that was like eight months ago when you were watching. I will watch it eventually, you should. Just it's good. It is that it is that, it is that good. I'm just saying, you know you were watching it, like you saw how good it was.

I mean you've heard, you've seen you know, yeah, you appreciate it. Quiet, I will, I will watch it. I just need to watch the Sopranos first. It's got great I mean great acting, great character actors are great. Writing isn't pretty good, even though she really doesn't do that much.

She's playing the Al character, not even Al. Though Al does more than she did. Oh, she does she prevenge, she answers, she answers the phone thing a couple of times more than It's about as much as Al does other than shooting the guy at the end of the movie. It's not like Al is doing much. I mean that's the point of the character.

Yeah, but halle Berry can do more. I agree. But this is halle Berry in the nineties. I mean, this is pref This is halle Berry not like pre fame. But this is not halle Berry of like now where she's all you know, there's a Hollywood leading lady.

That's fair, And I think that's the problem. And I think that, honestly is the problem with the female character in this movie. And you kind of hit the nail on the head. Almost doesn't need to have like a relationship with Kurt Russell. Yeah, it's like that phone they force, it's so tacked on, like it feels has tacked on as Erica Erica Lineac and Steven Seagal and oh, that is one of the worst worst caught.

That's the worst case, one of the worst cases of Forrest Romantis, I think. And the thing is, like the problem is he has had very few, very little interaction with this character, and suddenly they want to go out. I mean to be fair, though if I saw Kurt Russell, I would want to go out with him too. I think Speed did a pretty decent job about setting up two characters eventually getting together at the end, because there was like constant, you know, back and forth between them, and you know, and even admit at the end it's like relationships based on extreme circus face has never worked, which is why she ended up with Jason Patrick in the second one. That's fair, That's fair.

Yeah, I guess they didn't put two and two together that Susan or Season Hubble is Whip Hubble's sister, and Season Hubile and Kurt Russell were married. Did you realize that I didn't. Yeah, he was married before God, yeah, I know, yeah, he was very he's married. He's married to Season Hubile and he in seventy nine and he divorced her in eighty three. Okay, yeah, is that weird?

I know, like's that weird confluence? Yeah, Kurt dude, Kurt Russell, like, in my opinion, like Kurt Russell is the absolute fucking definition of cool. Like he just like cool. He seems like, he seems like, he seems like a cool actor, seems like a cool dude in general. You know what, though I'm not gonna argue with you on that one, I can fully agree because Kurt Russell he exudes cool, just cool.

He's just a cool cool then. You know what Jack Burton, Yeah, he snakes. I know, he's Jack O'Neill, he's wyatter, he was Elvis Presley twice. He's McCready from the thing. He's just you cannot tell me.

Kurt Russell is he's fucking cool. But he's I just love him as an actor, and I love that in this movie he's I wouldn't say playing against type because I think Kurt Russell is really excels as an actor when he plays in every Man. He's playing yeah, he is very playing every Man because he doesn't he doesn't do any action until like the last part of the film, because because for the almost entirety of the film, he's using more of his brain, yeah, than his it's a stealth action move. He only picks up a gun, I believe in like the last fifteen twenty minutes of the film when he kind of goes Rowe when he feels like he has to do it because he has to go up there to find the mole, and he figured he finds out that's not the mole.

And that's a great scene and that's perfectly written, you know, because he because it's it's more believable that way, rather than you know, nabbish and nabbish every Man suddenly becomes action hero you know in the film, Like that's not believable because at the end he's still the same person he was, right, He doesn't suddenly become like a pumped up action star. He's still the guy. He's just a guy that's gone through a really fucking hellish situation. But he's still Kurt Russell's character. He's still the character altogether.

He didn't need to have a he didn't need to have a character arc. He just needed to be his. He just needed to be the brains and the charm, and he was and he and thankfully they didn't give him like quippy lines to say in the film. I think the thing where they saluted him at the end of the movie was a little bit much. Well, I mean, but I think I think that's more of a think.

Yeah, I think it just leans too much into the jingo is bullshit that I again, like, I had a real hard time within uh I had I just had a I had a real hard time with that Air Force one. And so I was glad this movie didn't do that. Trevor Ponytail up for Ponytail down on executive decision, ponytail up, two ponytails up, all of them. This, Mike I said, this might be the best thing we've watched for this show so far. Debatable, but but I mean, again, if it's not this, the other two things we agree on so yeah, again this.

You know, they don't advertise Sigale and the on the poster for this movie. They don't let you know as an audience member outside of the trailer that he's in this movie. And when he shows up and he dies immediately, you understand why they didn't advertise him. But I would contend he should have been the person that they were advertising as the main character of this movie. I think still would contend that.

I think we've made the executive decision to agree on this film. It's a good one. It's a great one. I'm glad we watched it. Yeah.

So, and on the next episode, we're we're talking about The Asian Connection, where Steven Seagale plays Gone cern Kiri, which is a terrible name for a character. And frankly, I'm just gonna say this right now before we even talk about the movie. The title for this movie sounds atrocious almost. It almost sounds racist almost, And it's based on a story by Tom Sizemore. Yep, So prepare yourself to that, ladies and gentlemen.

Until then, where can people find you, Trevor, Oh, Twitter and Instagram, look up bad Vertigo. You can find me occasionally on My Dear Host podcasts, the Culture Cast, and where can people find you first? As for me, you can find me at c stash dot com, CS t ac hiw dot com. That's my link tree. Go there, you'll find all the stuff that I work on.

As for this show, on sigal dot com is where you can go to find more about this show. That's the website and we don't post anywhere else. So there you go. Big. Thanks as always so all of our listeners, and we'll make sure to catch you on the next episode.