17: The Glimmer Man

Weird Way Media. Hello and welcome to the On Seagal Podcast, your podcast for everything at Anything, Steven Seagal, I am your host, Trevor Gumble, and with me as always is my lovely, lovely co host and Gomez Adams. Cause player, that's true. My hair is the wrong color and much too long at this point, like millennial Gomez Adams and that that's that's the look I'm cultivating. Is a millennial Gomez Adams, like the like the like the fan, the fan poster with Johnny Depp in it.

No, Johnny Depp is oh what oh? I mean at some point in our history of this business that would have been a casting decision that would have made total sense. I don't think anymore. I don't think anymore. I mean, are you talking about like Oscar Isaacs is who I would cast, But that's who they cast in the in the movie as the voice of Yeah, it was a terrible movie.

Well first one, at least I'm in the second one. I haven't seen any of them. I I there are one set of Adams family movies that are for me, and those are the ones from the nineties that yeah, you can't okay when they tried to do a third one with Tim Curry and and Daryl Hannah. I kind of liked it. I saw it way too many times as a kid.

It was one of those vhs. It was one of those vhs as we just happened to own. Yeah, well it didn't have like its own purple cover or some shit like that, I know something. And then there was like, yeah, Tim Curry was Gomez, Daryl Hannah was more Tisha. I mean somebody.

It was a good effort. There was somebody in the movie who was a villain who's just like a character actress, probably like Michael McKeon or something. I don't there's some other character act maybe. Yeah, I think Bigley Junior was in it. That may be Harris was in it, the late Estel Harris, who just we just lost recently.

Yeah. I uh, but but we're not here to talk about that. We're not here to talk about the m You gotta introduce yourself. Man. Yeah, I'm Chris stash Hue, but I'm not Steven Seagal.

And I didn't spend twenty four hours with Steven Seagal either. No, we didn't end, which is like an is a video that's been like making its way around the internet. Uh recently, we both watched it separate from one another. Apparently I didn't watch the whole thing. I only stop.

I did. It's two it's two parts, okay, yeah, it's I will say it's interesting. I again, I think our perception of Seagal is a valid one, and I think, yeah, our belief in who he thinks he is is a valid one. But it's really what I think is very interesting. And again, I'm just taking the bad stuff away just for the time being.

I'm not giving him a pass. I'm not saying what he did is okay, but just removing all the things that he did, all the allegations. It is very clear to me in watching that footage that was put together that Steven tagal and I've said it before on this show, and I feel rather vindicated. Steven Seagal is a master I KEDO instructor practitioner. He knows what he's doing.

Watching him literally just and like he's like, I can get you like this, I can get you like this. I can get you. He's just holding the guy's hand and he's just manipulating it is this guy's hand. I can get you here I can do this, and it's like, you know what, it does come through in the early movies, not so much in the new stuff, but in something like we're going to talk about on this episode. Yeah, I think he's still that version of himself that he perceives himself to be.

I think is these movies, these early movies, are the closest ever gets to his believed perception of himself. Well what I got from the video, I mean, other than I mean, he still knows what he's doing. It's it's really kind of fascinating to see him do what he does best and talk about it, right he talks about when he talks about aikido or any martial arts that he's that he knows. It's kind of fascinating to hear him discuss it because he you know, he has a passion for it. This is what he loves to do, and he gets rather high level with it.

He gets pretty metaphysical and rather insightful. And is he regurging what other people are saying? Maybe again I'm not I'm not a martial artist expert, so I don't know. But what he's saying, the way he's saying, and the things that he's saying, I believe, like you said, with full conviction, this guy is a legit martial arts practitioner. Well, I think since we as we've discussed on previous episodes.

For him, coming from the video, it's not just physical, it's a very spiritual for him. It's almost like a religion. He talks about it like he talks about a religion, like he's trying, like if like a Christian trying to get someone to come to Christ. This is a guy who's trying to trying to emphasize the glory of aikido and all that stuff and the beliefs, the beliefs that come along with it. I mean, it's a belief system like anything else.

It really is. Yeah. I mean the guy and the guy talking to him, this guy who was doing the thing isn't just some random, you know, chump who doesn't know anything. This is a guy who does karate professional. He's he is also a martial arts practitioner.

Yeah. Yeah, so, I mean it's not like some random chump off the street with Steven Sigale just you know, making it too easy for him. This is a guy who actually knows what he's doing. And Steven Siagal still has the the ability to to, you know, take him down, and it kind of and and what you say is interesting to hear him explain how he uses the parts of his body the way he does, because I kido is very much about how samurais we're protecting themselves on the battlefield, and so it's utilizing your arms and legs like weapons, like like literally like weapons, not like, oh, your hands are figuratively weapons, like no, you're literally supposed to use your leg like a spear, your arm like a sword or a dagger to use it.

And he's I mean he does it in the video. You see him with his hand and he like presses it against the guy really hard because like, holy shit, that really hurt. It's like, yeah, I work on this power and the ability to do this every day to sharpen my skills. I don't know. It painted Steven Seagal in a much more sympathetic light than I would say a lot of things that I have seen about Steven Seagal in the last decade.

Again, everybody has those Steven Seagal stories that give them some level of credibility and cloud. We joked about it with Richard on the Underseags two episode. But like that's the thing now, was like clowning on Stephen Seagal and then you see him and he's just like this kind of like overweight, older guy who has just kind of he's pontificating a little bit. But again, he knows what, he knows what he's talking about. We know, I know that much.

I didn't get the feeling watching the video that he was bullshitting or string for the camera. No, he seemed very genuine. It's very strange. Yeah, and I mean, you know, like you said, there have been many stories. There have been many you know, Richard told one.

I mean, yeah, yeah, we've heard all the wee you can find so many of these stories. Again, everybody seemingly, like Richard said, everybody has a Seagal story at this point. Yeah, but we're not talking about Steven Seagal as a person. We're talking about Steven Seagal as an aikido right master, right, I mean, his knowledge of a kedo is kind of non debatable. Right, It's almost like I don't know anyone who speaks as broadly about that as he is able to.

He might be like one of the better experts on it. I would think in a way it kind of makes it sadder that he hasn't put more effort into into his films. You know, I will you know what, I will say this honest to God, honest to God, and I just may color the way this show goes from here on out. The best way to watch these movies maybe as Steven Seagal is reluctant to be in them, Okay, And I say that. I say that because he seems so much he seems rather charismatic in this video when he's talking to the guy, and yeah, he is he rather matter of fact, sure, but he's also I think he's rather charismatic, not like you know, as much as he was in the nineties, but again, with a level of knowledge on a topic and an ability to speak with confidence comes a level of chrisma.

And I think the thing that's kind of sad for me is realizing that Seagal actually has that ability to be charismatic and be kind of compelling, and then realizing that, like I think, when he's in these movies, he's just he just he just doesn't it's just it's not what he wants to be doing. He wants to be doing something else, and this may just be a means to an end. Well, you were seeing the Seagal that we had in the early nineties, and you were seeing the personality that made him a juggernaut for for a couple of years. He was doing ikeno in all those movies. Yeah, and then where did he stop doing ike Where did he stop?

What was the movie where he stopped? It was under Siege? Yeah, I was right, I was all right under sea. Well, he still did a little bit I think in Fire Down Below or No No Deadly Ground. Keep getting those two mixed up.

Well, we technically haven't even watched one of them. Yeah, we haven't watched technically. Yeah, but at literally films he started to get more gun now, right, and I did I do wonder and again we I haven't seen the interviews with him talking about it. I've seen the interview where he says like, I'm not using guns anymore. But there is part of me that wonders that at this point where it's like, oh, they're offering me these scripts, okay, like a bunch of gun shit.

Okay, whatever, fun means to an end. But again, he did fight George Saint Pierre hand to hand, and I will remind you what was the best of the recent movies of his that we watched. What was the entire premise of that movie? Uh, it was him doing a kido in attrition. In attrition, Yeah, I mean the scene with with him and George Saint Pierre showed glimmer no pun intended of the siagal we've.

Yeah, again, not believable when it's like a sixty five year old man beating up George Saint Pierre. But but I think watch that video on YouTube and tell me that you couldn't figure out a way to make that believable. But you know what, I think what it is is that watching him do his aikido, it is kind of fascinating. It's kind of interesting. I'm with you, That's what I'm saying.

Like, if he never got wrapped up in this, if he never got wrapped up in the movies, who knows what he would be doing not just not pretentious, but it was almost like ballet because the way he moves very very very very smooth and very very fucking big dude. Big dudes don't move like that. And that's what makes me kind of like, like I don't want to body shame the guy. Believe me, But it's more of a believable for a thinner guy doing aketo fighting someone than it is someone his size. And I'm not saying it.

I believe me. I don't know a kedo when I'm a I'm a fluffy motherfucker. I would actually, I would actually disagree with you. I think I Keto is almost better for people who are your size and my size because it is a purely defensive of martial arts style which is being used to defend yourself, because I will, probably, like yourself, don't tend to be the aggressor in these kinds of situations someone else's and Steven Seagal, I mean you hear him talk about it in that interview. He's like, you know, I don't want fights to get any further than like my interaction needs to be the end of the fight.

And again, like we've been talking about that in these movies, like I Keto is not that I think the ultimate problem and let's talk about Glimmerman. Now, I Keto is not made for the screen. I think that needs to be like we just need to get that out in the open. I Keto is not a flashy martial arts style and not in it not being flashy. It does not allow for because Steven Seagal wants to practice I keto, and I don't blame him, you know, that's the thing.

I mean, they probably were like, all right, can you just do some fucking hokey shit, and you, you and I both know he was like what No. That probably that probably made him feel really fucking insulted, right, And that's my point. And so ikeno is such a defensive fighting style. He can he explains it as such. He's explaining it, not making excuses for his film career.

He's explaining it like the Ikeedo master he is. It's about ending the fight essentially before the fight can get any further than the other punch being thrown. And what have we fucking complained about in every single one of these goddamn movies, Trevor, Not enough Sigal fighting, not enough, not enough, not enough, back and forth. I think it boils down to that, or I mean it's it's they're not using Sigal like they should be using But that's because they can't use Sigal the way they want to use him, because his martial arts style is almost counterproductive to what they're trying to do well as they are they because Sikdo is not meant to be these long term fights that that are in movies now. It's meant to be short and that's it.

Yeah, one and done. Your can he like he can, he can end your life in multiple ways with multiple different angles of attack that ultimately most of the time it would seem sever your brain stem with his bare hand. But that's but that's not cinematic. That's just like you want when you go to an action movie where there's fight scenes you want you don't want to fight scene that's like two minutes long. Done, you want to fight scene.

That's that's very like cinematic. It's a microcosm of the movie in and of itself. It has rises and falls in the fight scene, the best ones, Like we talked about this last time, the fight scene in Commando, there's a back and forth, there's a push and a pull, there's a give and a take. That's the best fight scene is it has all right, the villain's gonna get his now, the hero is gonna get his, and then back and forth, and just as you think the villain's about to kill the hero. The hero turns it around, you know, like that's those are the best ones with this.

It's like nope, but that's the intent. Like I guess I can't fault them in a way. I don't mean, but it's not inherently cinematic like you've said, It's just it is what it is. I mean, that's why they added the guns. I guess, Like, all right, Steve, well, we can't.

Really you don't. And again, you and I both know it was not we can't, it's you won't. You will not allow us to let the fight go further because you want to practice iketo believably on screen. Yes, And anyone who knows ikedo, if they tried to lengthen an aiketo fight, they'd be like, this is ridiculous. He cares too much about his i keto honor and practitionership of I feel like it would get in the way of being Yeah, he would not let that get in the He's not going to let a movie being entertaining get in the way of him practicing I keto, which I give him props for that, but again, like it does not contribute to and or set up the audience for an inherently entertaining action move.

Another problem is I mean, like we said, he's used guns a lot in his films lately. Yeah, the thing, the fact is that it's really hard to make a gunfight cinematic. It's really hard to make a gunfight, you know, very interesting to watch, unless you're like John Wu or like Robert Rodriguez, or arguably quite in Tarantino. To make a gunfight interesting, you have to I don't even I don't know if I honestly, I was worried you were gonna say Tarantino, I said, arguably I would you argue that or would you argue against it? And I'd probably more argue against it.

I'm thinking more Wu and Rodriguez. I'm with you. I'm with you John for sure, Rodriguez for sure. To make a gun like in his films, the gunfights have been just not interesting, not just kind of boring, very matter of fact. But then again, that's a lot of action films lately, at least there's not quick cuts.

True, But I mean Seagal doesn't do well with a gun. He does well with his arms and his fists, right, he is, He's the bet to make your film more interesting. But again, the problem is is unless you're throwing hundreds of guys at him, there's no believable way. You have to literally isolate the villains until the end of the movie because the moment they get into a fist fight with Sigal, all they have to die. Yeah, that is the ike too.

Philosophy is I have to incapacitate you before the fight gets started. Let's let's think about how the villains have died in his films, even back to the early films, they didn't necessarily die by his hand. The one guy died falling out a window onto a fucking car. Uh, Tommy Lee Jones got blown up with the fucking ship you know. I mean Tommy and Jones had his head Stu Mocker's style thrown into a CRT TV.

Michael Caine just was it was there when it exploded under Siege, so you see what I'm talking to you. Have we talked about underseages too at this point too? Yeah, we talked about it with a with a but at this point in the timeline it's come out. Oh, I don't know if we I don't think we have because this is a no. This is after underseach to yeah, okay, and Undersease two and I don't that's the thing, Like, I know, I just we are complaining about things in Stephen Seagal movies that I think are just like that's what makes it a Stephen Seagal movie.

Frankly, yeah, like really like the moment the anticipation is not matched by the climax, Like the anticipation of Sigal getting his hands on the people is better than the moment he gets his hands on him, because in every one of these movies, when he does get his hands on someone, it is literally like dead, like Henry Silva is dead. The moment Sigal as his hands on him like it's over, like, well, how did you got a question? I forgot? How did how did William forsythe die? He got him with the corkscrew?

Yeah that's not aketo. Bill Sadler didn't die from didn't die. No, he let him just he made him just the blood bank, he did not. I don't know. I guess Segal is just strange in that way.

He's just a strange guy. He's a strange I mean, I would love to have seen the film where one he would wear one of his Aketo moves basically paralyzed a guy or something. Just take the guy out like that. But then again, you're right, it's not a very long fight. It would be one two minutes and it's over if that.

I mean again, because you saw the how quick he was in this video. I mean it's not even a minute. I mean, see what you will about Seagal and his reputation within the action community without within the you know, the rumors about him, uh, challenging Silvester still one or artful for you to fight and then pussying out take all that away. The guy. Don't believe that though I don't know.

I wasn't there, um, but you know, I've heard stories. But then again that's just stories, and I can't I can't. I can't speak to the validity of rumors. And that's why I say the thing about Seagal that I do, which is, like, everybody has a Seagal story now, even if like and again, how much validity are there to some of them. I'm sure there is a large amount of validity to a lot of them, but the validity but there's also probably people who have embellished encounters and other things.

I'm not defending him. But again, like it's it's more, it's more storytelling, it's more it's more interesting to embellish than to just say, you know. But at the same time, it's also easier to do that to someone who you know is not going to fight back. Well, Heast in Russia, so he won't do anything. But that's but but that's my point.

Where would people be telling those stories about someone who's currently working in the industry not a clue, not a clue. No, they wouldn't. I mean, that's why John, I mean, that's why they're doing I mean, but they're like again, they're just trafficking in these stories and it doesn't it Again, I'm not bemoaning it. I just don't understand the point. Yeah, I think it's just they're interesting to listen to and they're interesting to tell.

At some point. It's they're all at some point they become or not. I'm not saying their lies. I'm not saying their lies. I'm not saying their truth.

I'm saying they're just they just make for an interesting tale. The only one that I can verify is true is Richard's. Well, yeah, because he was there and you know, we know Richard, right, I know Richard, Yeah, he knows what he's talking about. He does. You know, why would Richard lie?

And again like, I'm not even sure, Richard, I'm not even sure. I'm sure Richard was so floored. I mean the way he tells that story, I mean, what is he at the game? Well, well, again that's my question. Some people it's just like a cloud thing like, oh, you've got a Seagal story, Like yeah, let me hear it.

Yeah, yeah. But you know what, though Richard didn't write this movie, this movie being in the glimmerman, but you know what, this movie, Trevor, Yes, is pretty funny. It is pretty entertaining. I mean, it's not the best Segal film, but it's it might be up there for me though, I'm gonna be honest with you, I do it's one of those most It's one of those Seagal films where I feel like he's actually charismatic as a person, Like there's more of his there's more of a personality in his character than his later films, Like he's actually putting effort into making someone a likable protagonist. And also this is adding a little more spirituality into into a character.

Because I mean his character is a Buddhist who does not use weapons or fight because it's against for his religion. Which you know, if you're a cop, why would you be a cop who doesn't like fighting? But that's right, And again that this movie is the movie where Seagal is like, I'm not killing my villains anymore. Yeah, And I mean, which stuck for what like a couple of years. Yeah, I didn't stick for that long.

He's teamed up with keenan Ivory Wayans who I think it's hilarious. I love Keen and Ivory brilliants. And I think that might be the smartest thing in this entire movie is and and nobody has done it up until this point. You realize that given him a comedic uh foil buddy, like a comedic sidekick they had like they tried well. I think they needed the balance, you know, the leniac.

But she wasn't funny, No, she was. She was Jimmis Kahl. I guess they gave us Morris Chestnut. Yeah, Katherine Heigel didn't do much an understeage too. Morris Chessnut was He's like a He's like a He's like a pre fully formed version of this character.

Yeah, he's like, he's where this character, he's where the Keenan Ivory Wayan's character ends up becoming. I think they were, you know, they were trying to more humanized Seagal and kind of you know, make it a lot this movie. I mean, it's not like a cop well it's it's an action comedy, but it's it's a it's a buddy cop movie. Yeah, but it's a little darker than than most. Um.

Steven Seagal, I mean has some great scenes of fighting, like the scene at the restaurant where he's trying to talk to that guy and uh, the guy's on the phone try to take a reservation and Seagal just barges in there and just takes every guy out basically with his hands, which is very interesting to watch. Um, I mean it's a trope and Seagal films, you know, Henchman Number one, Henchmen or few. They just run at him one at a time and he takes him out one at a time instead of going on with as a crowd. But yeah, it's a it's a fun it's a fun movie. That's one of Seagal's more entertaining recent films recent you know a relative term, uh you know, I mean Keet and Ivery Wains really adds the kind of adds more energy and more charisma to to the film.

And Seagal is really trying in this film, like he has a you know, he has a couple times where he's trying to be you know a little more kind of joyful and a little more you know, silly. I would agree, I think for me right now, this is the best version of Seagal that I've seen, and I agree with that that's a Seagal that I would want to see more of. I will, and I will tell you why. I think it's because the ability for him to finally have someone that can play off of how fucking weird he is. That's the thing about this movie.

They really are essentially just having us have keenan Ivory Ways and Steven Seagal playing themselves. Yes, there is no there is no pretension here, Like that's what this is. It's Steven Seagal kind of just playing a parody of himself, like of the characters that he's played well, which is effectively just him in every movie. It's almost if I'm kind of calling out Seagal tropes right as a character. Right, like the scene where they're in the uh the herbal store you know Chinese mysticism shop, which mysticism store and the and the you know, you know all these healing Uh what was it?

What was that one healing? Like, um, penis, go, dear penis. He's like it's it's like it's good for vitality, you know, He's like, what is this, dear penis? Oh Jesus Christ, that's what it's getting. Like it's kind of like it's like, yeah, we know that he's into this, like you know, Eastern mysticism shit.

Like again, it's like shit as in like the very like pop culturized version that Steven Seagal is kind of like his neighbor, his neighorw Jackets and all that, like that, the stuff that he's known for. They kind of they kind of make fun of it in this movie. Appreciate at Sigal, to his credit, goes along with it. Yeah, he's great. He's kind of hell go, he's kind of playing in this.

I like, and he's come to play, and I like that it's not him. This is Sigall actually, you know, putting an effort into being more likable as as as an action star. He's having a good time. Unfortunately, well, unfortunately, the film just didn't do well and that's began to decline. I think of this film haven't done better, we would have seen more of this Seagal.

I will say, I think the big problem between the movie that I wanted this to be in the movie that this is is because of how absolutely convoluted the story is. His story is so convoluted. The name of the movie has literally nothing to do with the plot of the movie. It is just the I mean name with which they call Steven Seagal's character. Because again, he's not just a cop.

He is a former CIA operative who was known as the Glimmerman because he could move through the underbrush so quickly that the only thing you would see before you die. Yeah yeah, so like that, That to me signifies that they didn't even have a clue what to do with this movie's plot. It's so convoluted. It's really funny that the biggest character description you would get is in the fucking trailer. Yeah, they talk about him more.

They talk about his character in the name more in the trailer than they do in the entire film. Yeah, it's like a kind of like an offhanded comment in the movie. It's like, oh, he's you know, the glimmer he's the glimmerman. Well, and here and here's the thing. Like the movie starts out in a point where it's like you have Cole and Campbell, Seagal and Wands going to find a serial killer who murders entire households, and that ends up being a total mcguffin, and it leads to smuggling of chemical weapons into the United States from Russia that are being sold and the reason the family died is because they knew too much.

It's like they should have they should not have introduced this, like, oh, it's actually Russian terrorists, Like it should have just been the two of them searching for a serial killer, because that like, why, why isn't that enough? I guess what happens is they bring in the Stephen Tabolowsky character, Tablowski character and immediately just nothing. Once scene later he's gone, yeah, I'm like and that's where the whole Segal not killing people because his character was originally supposed to die, and then Segal said, I don't want to kill him, so they had to fucking rewrite shit to make his character live. And then there's like overdubbing in the movie. Why even have that plot to begin with?

If you're gonna make it, they made it seem like this was going to be the main plot. They're looking for this, you know, serial killer, and that's the main plot. I be like, oh, okay, that's interesting. Oh Stephen Tabalowsky is a ser my god, he's got him cornered in a church. I mean, how's he gonna this is only thirty minutes into the film.

If that, yeah, yeah, and one see later Stevens character has completely gone from the film and now we're onto a new thing. But it's somehow still sideways. It somehow still is tied into the original plot. Well, and then we have this other the plot where Stevens took all Um goes into the school because this boy is this kid is holding this class hostage because I think his girlfriend broke up with him or something like that. Um, And don't they try to make that into somewhat of a plot later, Well, that that character ties into the dad.

He's the son of the dad who was also doing the killings. It's again, it's like super convoluted for it's very fun, no reason like it. But why make him a school shooter of all things? I don't. I don't because I guess they were trying to get rid of it wasn't the whole thing they were trying to get rid of him.

I don't know. Again, Like the movie is so I don't want understand. The movie is so convoluted, and it gets it ends up being that just this local businessman, corrupt asshole played by Bob Gunton of all people. Is Bob Gunn, you know, he's the villain, right right, But he's great, I mean, Bob Gunn's guy's Yeah, but he ends up being the main villain of the movie, and the information they get on him comes from Brian Cox, of all people. The Brian Cox role in this movie was originally supposed to be played by Tommy Lee Jones, which would have been fucking great and hilarious.

Yeah. I love Brian Cox. Oh imagine Tommy Lee Jones. That role would have been so really because Brian Cox, his character is like just wears a robe around the pool, you know, kind of just yeah, he's so good though, he's an ultra rich sleeves bag. Yeah, you know, having other people do his dirty work.

And I would have loved Josee Tommy Leo that role. Bryan Cox did a great job. But yeah, I mean it's it's that's also convolute because they have one guy recording to another guy, were into another guy to kill these other people. Yeah, it's what the fuck? Yeah?

I again, it's like they needed one they needed one more pass on the script because there's just some kind of these weird like you could take the character Stephen Tobalowski out of the movie completely. He's about he's a mcguffins, he's there, he's there. Only get the problem is with that character. If you're going to introduce a character that's a false killer or a one of one of two killers because he's read Harry, Yeah, you can't introduce him and then get rid of him the next scene. You got to give the audience a couple scenes to kind of especially see what he's doing and kind of lead us down the wrong path.

I mean, especially if you're using an actor like Stephen Tobalowski. Right, Well, that's my most I mean, it's just can play this kind of character. Yeah, they didn't have to make this. They could have actually made him the character and put that scene at the very end of the film, and I wonder, because there is that kind of weird connection where it's like Segal, like, doesn't Brian Cox, no Segal, they know Seagal is. Isn't there something about there's something about that right on that?

Yeah? I mean, I mean we're not even talking about the keen and ivery Wayne's aspect of the film. Super weird, What a weird what a weird character? And he's obsessed with Casablanca, Like, were they trying to make like coded a little like no, no, they trying to make a rush Hour meet seven kind of thing. I don't know, Well, this is this is pre both of those.

Was this prey rush Hour? Rush Hour came out about ninety seven, Yeah, but but seven came out ninety five. That's the thing I think. I think the rush Hour thing I don't think is earned. But I would agree with you that there again, that's why I was saying, like it feels like it needed another pass, because there again you said that there's some dark there's the darker aspect of the movie The Serial Killer, the Family Man.

Don't forget at the beginning of the movie there is even the thing where Seagal is possibly being investigated for being the serial killer because the woman that dies was his former wife. Yeah, and like that they can go nowhere with that, They go nowhere with the framing aspect where the killers trying to make Segal look like the bad guy. Doesn't. It's like you think they're going to make it a major part of the plot. It's like, Okay, now Segal has to clear his good name with the with the precinct and but no, let's clear up in like what five minutes.

Yeah. Again, it's it's like they it's like they just had all these ideas and said, let's just throw Instead of taking two or three ideas and fully walking down the path and developing them completely, they took like eight ideas and just crammed them into this movie because oh, on top of everything else, this movie is only ninety minutes, and it manages to somehow tie itself into a really complex not really really pushed it, really stretched out shit to make it ninety minutes, Like without the without the Teven Tabulaski scene or a lot of the other extraneous seasons, movie would have been an hour if that. And again, like they could have really like taken some of these like ideas, like the serial killer idea, and really run with it and given given the movie some like emotional stakes and something, I mean, something more than what they gave us now, which is like it's like a serial killer movie with like a crime mob underworld movie with a Steven Seagal movie plus a comedy and it's like one of these things works and the other three don't.

Really. Seagal his past films, he's never really dealt with a serial killer. He's deale with mob. Yeah, he's dealt with a mob, drug dealers, gang members. A serial killer is such a good premise, and it's a great premise that is a fantastical That's what I'm saying.

And there is a there is a terrific, exciting film in this film that wants to get out so badly, but it's hampered by such convoluted shit like Stephen Tablowski being a red herring and you know, the attempted framing of Seagal and you know all that other shit. It just doesn't go and ultimately it goes nowhere, and the conclusion of the film being well, there was another serial killer who was killing people that were also associated with this company that you were running, and this company is smuggling in chemical weapons and that's why you're killing them is because they know. It's just it's so fucking lame. It's just me lame. Answer me this question.

Did there need to be Bob Gunton and and Brian Cox? Did there need to be those? That's what I'm saying. Couldn't they just had one guy, They could have combined it into one character, or they could have just not had that character in the movie, and it's just been the Stephen Tobalowski character. They added characters upon characters upon characters too.

They have scenarios that they made. They made problems for themselves that they made worse by trying to explain it in another way that forces them to open up. But that's a problem with making movies, like you really have like four or five boxes you should be playing with, and the more boxes you add in, the more pieces you have to deal with. And at some point, like in this movie, you have twelve boxes open and half of the pieces from each box, but none of them are complete. There are no fucking full ideas are not part of this movie's makeup at all.

If you were going to make Stephen Tubalowski the main serial killer. I don't think it would have been a good idea for Stephen Seagal to kill him or fight him, because who's going to believe that Stephen Tablowski is going to stand up to Stephen Seagal. I mean, no, no offense to Stephen Tabalowski. But Tobalowski tried to convince Seagal to let his character die by saying he was a miserable human being who by dying would receive redemption and reincarnation, and Segal was like, okay, sure, so there's your answer. But again they didn't do a The way Tubolowski played it in the one scene he was in was terrific.

Yeah, he's great, I thought, Tobolowski to de gra I'm like, that is a villain. I want to see more. That scene at the end would have been so fucking interesting to see because this is a killer who just is a miserable son of a bitch who is just guarante you know, he thinks that, you know, the only way to redeem himself is to die and all that shit. That would have been more interesting than just two businessmen hiring someone to kill people. Yeah.

Now it's let me ask you. If they'd taken Keaty and Iverwain's out of the film, do you think it would have changed anything? I don't. And guy, I would like this movie as much as I did. You know, but what it would The plot still have gone as it went without Keenan and everyone's sure, sure, okay, but you ask.

But I could ask the same question about Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Dark. Well, that's that's a common that's a common agreement about the film. Is that just take if Steven, if it ain't off Jones hadn't even been in the film, they still would have gotten the Ark of the Covenant, they still would have opened, and they still would have died. So it kind of makes that movie genius though. Yeah.

But but Harrison Ford is so charismatic and likable and he just he's just a fun guy to watch do his thing. I think without without Keenan Ivory Wayans in this movie, nothing would have If you're talking from a sole plot standpoint, yeah, nothing, I mean nothing would have changed. I'm talking about the other stuff. This movie is a complete like mess without Yeah, that's I agree with that. Part.

Yeah, I'm just talking plot standpoint. Yeah, he does does nothing to add to the plot or detract from the plot of this. He has a couple of scenes where he's in danger, like his house gets set on fire by the killer and he's trying to you know, that's blow up and it throws him out of a window. Yeah, which, yeah, right, Like he would have survived that ship. But Steven Um, he adds humor to the film.

He gives Sigal somewhat a bit of humanity in the film because they're playing off of each other. They're playing off of each other very well, and I think I wanted to see a little bit more of that strength wise, and I wanted Steve Keen and Everyween's brought into the plot more like I wanted him to do more than he did, which is just be you know, the comedic. You know, he's a sidekick, sidekick that you know just occasionally does something. You know, I'm with you. No, he's he's he's a better he's a better actor, he's a better action star.

He's he's a better physical person than to just put him as, you know, just a comedic foil sidekick. He's a lot better than that. I agree. I agree, and um, it's it's a shame it's a Nike And that's like part of the problem with this movie is it's so such a convoluted movie that they like really wrapped it in so many knots, and they spent so much time wrapping themselves in knots that they could have spent that time doing anything else, like giving Seagal and keenan Ivory Wain's more time to you know, bounce jokes off of one another or just anything. It's it's such a shame, it's such I mean, and I want to see more of Seagal being jokey and humorous and shit like that, because you know, I think people we want it really wanted to see that.

They wanted to not have Seagal be so kind of serious about himself. They wanted him to kind to lighten up a bit. And that's where this movie, in bits and pieces, really shine. Yeah. I agree, it's very much the movie that I wanted from Seagal.

It's not all the way there, but it's closer than anything else has been to the movie that I think would have really would have really had some sustainability for Seagal's career because again, like you mentioned, you can only do the stoic, serious action guy so much. You can do it in multiple genres. You can be Clinis wouldn't do it in Dirty Harry, and do it in the Westerns and you know, do the Eiger Sanction and shit like that. Yeah, but Seagal, I don't think he has that range or he never got offered those product projects when yeah, and so like that's not him. But when you see him in this movie, you realize, like, like you said, you can see it, it's there, it's not all there.

It's not as much there as I would want it to be or you would want it to be. But you get to see a version of Segal in this movie that I think is closer to what I kind of wished he was in a lot of these There is a there's a seed that is planted and impromptly destroyed. Yeah, well, um, yeah, can we talk about the autopsy scene because that's the scene that's been in my head since I've seen it, and it was just so fucking weird what Segal does in that scene. Um, they're trying to I think they're trying to identify the body or whatever the girls and Segal just takes the scalpel, cuts the girl's breast open and takes out her implant. Yeah and by the way, the implant is is clean and untouched.

Right. Well, yeah, that is really really fucking weird. I mean, I don't think cops do that, Like, they're not. They're not, they're not the coroner. No, no, I mean like and he it was it was like it seemed like it was a very clinical slice into her brain to give me that.

Yeah, and just he does it so quickly give me that. I'm like, have you done this before? Well, but that's the thing, like again, they they don't lean on that in the movie as much as they should. Him being like a former ex like secret like black ops agent, they should lean on that more in the movie, and they don't. And you know, that might be one of the ways that the movie is kind of like subtly nodding and like winking.

But I don't know some of this again, Seagal doing things like that is just weird, right, they don't. They also don't lean on the his family very much, right, Yeah, Like the threat to his family isn't touched upon very much, Like we didn't even know much about his family. Why give him a family. He could just be a loaner, like, he could just be a man who wants to be by himself, trying to and you could have still made him a Buddhist, but a Buddhist who's in like solitude, who just wants to be I think it just speaks to the lack of foresight that the people who made this movie had in the idea that, like, you don't have to have Steven Seagal having a love interest. No, I mean, frankly, none of the movies that we've seen with him having a love interest have been successful.

Not really. Eric Leniac feels very yea, they forced their relationship with him and Eric Lannia getting Understege and when she convice she's gone, she's real gone. In Underseage too, they don't even attempt to have a love interest except they it's real weird. Are you talking about the bartender leader? Oh?

No, I was more just talking about the fact that they kind of make Catherine Hi. It's really weird. It's real weird, and she was like sixteen or seventeen of the sixteen at the time. I don't like to drink alone. That's my favorite line in that whole movie.

Oh god, well you don't like to drink I don't like to drink alone. Yeah, well that doesn't have alcohol and it's dumb bitch that doesn't have any alcohol in it. Well. Fine, Catherine Ega is such a such a such a perfect foil for Steven Seagal as actress. Well, I mean because she can play the smart ass.

I was being facetious. She's a very bad actress. I do not find don't find. I don't find anything i've seen her in to be mildly even entertaining. I'm sorry, I thought I thought she was fine and too.

I did like the back and forth mean Sigal and the bartender at the one the little small part of the film. I like when Sigale was making that cake in the galley, Yeah, and then stops because the terrorist it's my, it's my it's my niece's favorite cake. She loves it. Man, he's like a he's like a ja. He's like, you know, that's what he is.

He's like one of those like jazz guys, but instead of jazz, he just talks his bullshit. He's even sigalled bullshit, talking his Akido is his jazz. Break it down for me, my baby, Tell tell me, Lieutenant Jim Campbell, what are we looking for? Oh, I'm the Glimmerman. Yeah, I mean that's what I will.

You know, friend of the podcast, Mike White always makes the joke about is that the movie where Steven Sigal plays the Jewish detective the Glimmerman, Jonathan Glimmerman, Doctor, doctor Glimmerman, doctors glimm that's my that was Yeah, that's that's our our joke. But it's like when I call Spiderman Spiderman, he's he's right, Mike White, Yeah, that's what. Yeah, this movie, this movie's okay though, Yeah, I mean it's not. It's it's a more tolerable Sigualam than we've been watching. Uh like, well it's more recent stuff.

Sure, I would say this is this is kind of a logical progression of his It's not as violence or or necessarily as as like extremely dark. It's as barely an action movie as is marked Mark for Death or hard to Kill films. It's very lightheart. It's like they were trying to make seven into a buddy cop movie. Yeah, but again they missed it completely.

That's the that's the movie that they should have made. A serial killer shouldn't have to have a committee, right, you know, he's a single A serial killer is a singular. Well sometimes it's sometimes it's more people, but they don't go through a fucking committee to kill people, like Brian Cox doesn't have to confer with Bob Gutton for the one guy to kill people. Yeah, it was, it was weird. It's it's fun.

I don't again, I don't know. I don't know why, but what you know what they were thinking. You know, Kevin Broadben his script. I would love to read his script on this movie because I would love to know how close it is to the real the script versus the movie, because again I Sigal comes in and changes things based on what he loves to change things. Well, I mean, hey, he's an idiosyncratic guy.

I get it. Yeah, he's I can't give someone a hard time for being weird. And this is the industry that weirdo's work in. Well, I want to believe that Broadbent's script is more of what we want. I don't know.

I doubt it. I don't know how to get a hold of him. Mister broaden. You know, I would love to just tackle a lot of writers with Sigal films and just that they have similar stories to fucking Richards. Yeah.

Probably at least the people who worked with him early on worked with him being you know, hell, we can we start a new podcast talking to the writers of the films and call it the Cigal that could have been. I don't know, but I just this, I mean, the film just really You're right, it needed a lot of more go through the an extra pass or two. Again, there's a good movie there. It's a great it's a great concept. It's an interesting it's interesting concept.

But this could have been one of Stephen Seagal's best films, the good of I do not disagree with. He would have been the film that changed people's perceptions of Seagal. This could have been the film that totally that totally put his career in a different, better path. But unfortunately, I mean, he was just he was sabotaged by a terrible, convoluted plot and not giving not giving him more of the comic foils, you know ability. It just needed to be rewritten one like, it just needed a pass on the like on the actual story.

The meat of this movie because, like, I think the interact, like the interactions with the characters are good, they're just needed to be more of them the act. There needs to actually be action in this movie. How's that? Yeah, there's one scene he's a little bit country, I'm a little bit of rock and roll. That seems great, But it's about as much as you get pretty much.

I mean, they showed the scene in the fucking trailer for the movie. Yeah, you've pretty much seen the best stuff in the trailer. Really not not, you really have? I mean, I know we talked about this film being one of stud gals better films. I think that's more of the what could have been at it's more of what could have been the what is is also the fact that most of Seagal's movies are not good.

They're not traditionally good. They're fun to watch because they're maybe not great. But like this, I would say that this hughes closest to a film that mainstream audiences would find entertaining and funny. Yes, because it's not as bloody or violent as his other films. Um it tries to be more audience friendly.

It's funny, it's trying to because you have well, I mean you and I both agree that his earliest stuff was really only made for a certain audience. Yeah, for sure, and it was not it was not a wide appeal. I mean they made money, they made a lot of money. Action movie because but that's her action movie fans. Yeah.

I mean, like, let's not kid ourselves. We can't see Seagal and like romantic comedies or shit like that. But we don't know. I don't know, come on, we could play a character in a romantic comedy as a lead. I don't think so.

I don't know. He could, he could play the he could play the love interests um jealous ex boyfriend. I mean at this point, he's playing somebody's dad. Yeah, I mean he's he's he's just the I don't know. I just what could have been?

Man, what could have been? This could have been something? Just this. Though this movie feels particularly bad and how like not fun it is, and it hurts, man, it hurts. Yeah.

I mean again for Steven Seagal, I don't really feel that bad because he's still ultimately is a massively successful movie star. True. I mean, who did have a fair amount of hits. I mean, you know, oh yeah, shitload of hits. Yeah, but I mean this was just one of his I mean no, if I mean on Deadly Ground was a miss too.

I'm I mean this kind of began the downfall, you know, this was part of the downfall of of his of his trajectory. Yeah, I mean, this is this is kind of this is essentially it. There's one more movie, Fired down Below, which did even worse than this movie did, So, yeah, that'll be fun to watch. Well that movie is that movie is? It has again, it has it's it has kind of its own problems.

So yeah, I mean, I mean, considering the next film we're going to talk about is a film where he's barely even in it. What End of a Gun? Oh no, No, the next um classic sicall film we're gonna talk about what Fire down Below? Executive what is an executive decision? No, executive decision?

Can't is technically before this one? Oh sorry, then let's put this part out the next So, so Trevor on the next episode of Onsagal, what are we to End of a Gun? It's it's literally cartels, but not cartels. It's the one that has Florian Piersi Junior in it. But he's it's it's the movie he's in that's not killing Salazar.

Wait have we watched it yet? Yes, I have the episode edited and ready to go. That's how I know what it is. How sad, that's how sad this is. It's the movie where he shoots that woman at the end of the movie that she's about to betray him, and he like, whoa, that's the one that's marks her ass at the end of the movie.

That's I remember that one. Yeah, I remember that one. That's actually the somewhat decent fight scene in the garage at the end. Or was that Yeah, that's Cartel's, isn't it. I don't know any That's what we're talking about, End of a Gun.

So so so take us home, my friend, all right, next time we will be talking about the Steven Seagal action thriller, End of a Gun. It's it's a movie. It's it's definitely a movie. It was shot on it was shot, it was edited, it was sound. It was definitely a movie.

It was even released somehow was written. The actor said, the lines there was a script of being written might be a little much. It's let's just put it this way. When you listen to that episode, you will hear us having a very hard time distinguishing whether or not we've already seen this movie from another movie that we have seen. So yeah, it's it's very it's rough.

They yeah, they melt together. It may if not for the fact that China Salesman exists, it might be the worst one we've watched so far. Oh god, nothing will nothing will be China Salesman. Not a fucking thing will be Chinamen. I don't know, I don't know.

It's tempting the universe, Trevor. But yeah, I dare I dare the steams like all universe to have a film worse than China Salman. My fucking dare the teams like all universe have a wors from you know what? We was a fucking abortion. That movie is real bad.

So until then, Trevor, Where can people find you? You can find me on Twitter and Instagram at bad Vertigo, and you can also find me from time to time on my lovely co host podcast, The Culture Cast and Chris Where can people find you? C statue dot com, cstac hiw dot com. That's my link tree. Go there.

That's for all the things I work on that's where you can find them. Uh yeah. As for this show on sagale dot com, that's where you can go to find the show. Like Trevor said, next episode, we're gonna be talking about End of a Gun, which is a newer Stephen Seagal movie from twenty sixteen. So until then, make sure to check out the next episode.

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