193. The Brides of Frankenstein's Monster

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Bring you to a simmer trying out the time my seal Fingers of your Graces. By fra A side name Jesus side. Brag Side. Hello and welcome to another episode of the Feminine Critique. I'm Emily, I'm Christine.

And we have to tell you what we're covering because we gave no warning or preview on this whatsoever. We are continuing our I feel like Christine, we've kind of this year, we're kind of going with a theme, and the theme is sort of very obvious pairings. Yeah, I love it, Yeah, I love it, nothing wrong with it. So we had talked last time we had like I can't remember we talked about this movie on the actual show or if we were talking about it after, because somehow we knew Maggie Jillenhall's Bride, The Bride with exclamation Point was coming out, and we kind of talked about like, oh, that looks interesting, kind of cool. I don't know if I'll get to see it because I don't really always have time to go to a movie theater.

You kind of said the same. Somehow this turned us into talking about did you know there was a Bride of Frankenstein movie with Clancy Brown? And of course it turned into me saying, how have I not seen it if it's Clancy Brown. So this led more discussions to us realizing Christine had never seen the original Bride of Frankenstein. This is very true.

This is very true now so oh so for people who are still wondering what we were talking about today, nineteen thirty five is the Bride of Frankenstein nineteen eighty five, I thinks I think so the Bride non exclamation point, two different takes on a similar story. I have no idea what Christine thinks of either one. I had seen the Bride of Frankenstein not that long ago, like I was late to it because I so let's talk this through because I have I think there's always a lot of ways of like dividing film people into different camps, and I think there is a little bit of you can kind of categorize or or understand somebody differently, whether they were a universe horror monster person or not. Would you agree?

I think I can. I think I can agree with that. I think that as an elder millennial, we both are. Yes, we are. We are among a grouping where you may have had access very early to the universal Monsters.

I think it's a little bit more gen xy. I agree. I agree that that's something. So that's an interesting breakdown I've noticed. But also in the nineties there was a kind of a re emergence and there was like a whole new line of toys and like I think Burger King even did like Universal Monster nties.

I think it started in the early nineties, but it definitely like koreemed through that. I think that, and that speaks to the lasting lore that is the universal Monster specifically that like core group of monsters. So my stepdad is I think he would probably consider himself a monster kid. So like unfortunately for me, I was kind of thrust at it in a way that I wasn't interested in. It was very much about like building model kits and masculinity.

It wasn't so much about how when you learn now a lot of those movies, especially this movie, is like they're like gay totally and they feel gay because like when gen x A specifically and maybe early younger boomers get into the monster kid stuff, I glaze and I feel like, Okay, there's nothing for me here. And I think that that's why I kept a distance for a lot, because I've never seen any universal monster movie. This is my first. Why I know, you've never even seen Frankenstein. Nope, So now I've officially seen this without seeing Frankenstein.

But the thing is, I, oh, I've read philosophical texts, I've read essays, I've I've looked at like breakdowns, storyboards. I know what images look like, but I've never actually sat and watched them, and I don't know why. Well, it's it's not like the black and white is boring thing because I watched like Hitchcock movies from the thirties all the time. No, I mean, honestly, some of them are Wolfman very boring. Oh really, I find the Wolfman wolf It is also long, and I mean when I say long, I'm I'd have to double check the actual running time.

But now I'm scared to go on IMDb because I just went on IMDb and suddenly it played sound so I might not be doing that. So because one of the beauties about especially the James Well films, is that they're so short right right of Frankenstein. The thing is, what like seventy minutes Frankenstein's very short Invisible Man, which is one that I only watched a few months ago. I had seen it a long time ago, but I for Halloween, I did The Invisible Man, and so I'm like, oh, crap, I need to rewatch the movie because it's been a while. It'sable man.

I think it's like fifty nine minutes, like it maybe is an hour, and it's a Visible Man I think you would love because it's also Barry James Wale very angry queen, like feels gay even though you're not really sure why, but you totally get it. And so I think I think that's what's so funny too, because I'm I'm not like I should get my Cinophile card revoke. Sure, but like I've read Frankenstein like five times, like I love that book, and I recently, like two or three years ago, listened to The Invisible Man. Fantastic book. I'm just like, this is like a step I skipped.

I was just sure, Yeah, I'm not doing these for some reason. I get it, I cause I have. Similarly, I did not grow up with these movies at all. And funny because my husband absolutely did, Like this was his entry into horror because he was he was kind of a scaredy cat. He was not a kid that liked horror movies.

And I think, and I could be wrong about this, but I think like part of it was like Abbat and Castillo meet Frankenstein like things like that that kind of weaned him into it, and then he went through all of them. So he has a real least like a strong fondness for universal in general. For me, and I think kind of what you tapped on, which is that whole like they were, these movies were big for our parents' generations because this is what was on TV for them. My mother, The Mummy was for my mom the scariest movie ever made. She was terrified of the Mummy.

I believe my dad probably grew up with these movies. But the thing is, by the time I was a kid, well, first of all, my introduction to black and white was Night of a Living Dead, and it's a little hard for a nineteen thirty eight movie to compete with Night of Living Dead. And by the time I was young, we were already a go to the video store, rent the gnarliest looking horror title on the shelf, and come home. So I was watching much more you know, modern, more graphic stuff. And even though I could occasionally appreciate a well made older film or more film, it never would have crossed my mind to rent Frankenstein when I had like sleep Away Camp too to.

Watch exactly, I I. It's tough too, because obviously you don't want to overgeneralize and be like, well, millennials just didn't watch them. That's not true. Obviously people sought them out and people's families watched them, But my mom's was more of like a Vincent Price, yeah happen so, and like William Castle, that was more where we were in that so it was just not around, which is strange. And then, like I think I talked about this when I the first time I saw Pink Flamingos.

Sometimes something is just so culturally like ingrained that you go like, yeah, I get. It right, and I know everything about it. Yeah, and then you watch it and you're like, wait a second, I guess I didn't. Yeah, So I guess having you said that, I'm really curious. What was your experience like sitting down for the Bride of Frankenstein.

Well, so. She's not in it enough. I'm just gonna say so like false advertising the bride ware. But that being said, like I I love the runtime obviously, and it never felt boring or or like laborious, I guess, which maybe is something that you might think perhaps, But it was beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, and everybody was non on scenery and everybody's wild and the guy that plays Frankenstein is so fucking hot, and like, it's not the monster because he's named monster. I guess Henry Frankenstein even the wrong names in.

These everybody does and weirdly, and we'll get to that when we talk about the Bride, because that that totally then everything around. Ultimately to me, he made a lot of sense, uh, But for this one it's right because Okay, Mary Shelley's novel is called Frankenstein or the Modern Prometheus, and it makes sense because Frankenstein, the doctor is the modern Prometheus. He is the guy that you know, brings fire, the fire to the men, right, the idea of somebody who steals something from the gods and gives it to mankind right, creates life, which is not something somebody a man is most, a human is most to be able to do. So that all makes sense. Frankenstein is Yes, Frankenstein is the actual villain.

He is not the creature. So then I guess what happened. And I should have looked this up better, but I didn't. I'm just going off vibes. Now, I would imagine Frankenstein comes out, they called Frankenstein.

It's easy to just call because he's only the monster in there. But like when you are then doing shorthand, it's yeah, Frankenstein, the monster Frankenstein. So bride of Frankenstein should should be called bride of Frankenstein's monster. But I feel like this is the thing that moves that that messed it up forever because now it's well, she's the bride frank Stein. Well now this is what it's gotta be.

But I I said that too. I said, well, like that that title is a little misleading when you think about it. And then but also like he does create her, so I guess it is Frankenstein's monster. I guess's monster. I guess, But like, so I did find that interesting.

So The whole thing is that he don't want to do it, which is great. He doesn't want to do it, so he gets like, uh, bullied into it by a very art doctors. He was a lot of fun. Oh. I would like to stop down, though, and say, like, what was up with all those little people that he had in little.

Cases or whatever you call them? Why are though? I don't unders that was a surprise. Yes, that was something I completely forgot because I'm I knew and I'm trying. I feel like I sat down to watch this movie maybe like ten fifteen years ago, and it was one of those like, oh man, I got it up off my list.

I can't because I would constantly get those like lists of movies you should have seen, and I'd realize, jeez, I haven't seen Ride Frank, It's Seine, And sitting down to watch it, what happened to me immediately was I was kind of having brain confusion because my favorite character in this entire movie. Do you want to guess who my favorite character is? Uh? Is it the lady that yells a lot? Yeah?

God, I love man? Is that her mini? Yes? Oh no, something I've read her last name? So she essentially plays but has.

Given Emily vibes. So yeah, she has given Emily vibes. I knew it. It's like, I'm you know, I don't consider myself an actor. I you know, I dabbled of acting in high school.

But there are times when I'm like, you know, in another lifetime, I could have been her, because that is my dream. R is to be the crazy, franky old lady who keeps getting in the way of things, keeps screening, gets to wear fabulous clothing, and yeah, dream role. Right there, she is essentially playing the same part that she plays in The Invisible Man. It's the Invisible Man. It's just and I was having I was like immediately, I'm like, wait, am I is she in Franketztein or is she Invisible Man?

And is this supposed to be like the same character? Because the police inspector is also in The Invisible Man? And so the two of them a clearly you know whale worked with them and knew them and liked them, and probably it was an easy vibe to keep bringing them on to things. But it was so like confusing to me because I'm trying to figure out I'm like, wait, are they supposed to be the same characters as that movie, because it kind of works if they are. But at that point, you think she wouldn't be so surprised at all this stuff happening because she'd be used to it.

Uh to say, you should watch The Invisible Man, I think you'd enjoy it. Oh, I would really like you. I should because that book Boil Boy. Invisible Man's a real piece of shit and I hate him. Yep, so I would very much like to see.

Uh that depiction of him, James Whale delivers right, he is. The Invisible Man is so much fun because the Invisible Man is just an asshole, Like he's a petty, mean like just to where he's like pushing kids off of bicycles, like just very petty and mean in a way that is very entertaining. So yes, do check that one out. Yeah, I my favorite observation. Somebody recently read the book and they were like, wow, I thought going Invisible made him an asshole, but he just started that way.

Oh yeah, yes, yes, so that's fun to hear. Oh yeah. One of my favorite things about Minni, I think my favorite moment of the movie, aside from all the dummy deaths, because there's like a dummy death right five minutes in, and I'm like, oh, so you get me movie, you get me. At one point, somebody there's like Minnie is on screen and you hear a woman's scream and Minnie says, oh my god, it's Liz or whatever it is. Like, I love the idea that Mini can recognize her neighbors by their she knows.

She's she's a pro, so she talks everybody else. Yeah, it's it's the best part of the movie. I mean, in a movie that I like quite a bit. So you tell me more of what surprised you about this movie or what kind of met your expectations, because I imagine forty three years of experience knowing about this movie, you sat down and got some of what you expected, maybe some surprises. Well, I, like I said, I didn't expect the little people.

But I also what I thought was really interesting was that it's framed like Mary Shelley Yes wrote wrote this, so the original Frankenstein movie from what I can glean, nothing like the book, because this is nothing like the book. And I really like the recontextualization of Like, no, it's totally like the story that she was writing. Right, And then they do like they do like a catch up. Oh my god, frank the best way to start a movie of all time. So good.

I was like, honestly efficient and genius. So genius. The opening is Mary Shelley being like, so, this is what happened in my book, and it's just narrating scenes from Frankenstein. And it's so smart good because it really is. Because back in the day, like you weren't watching this on video, you weren't watching it on TV.

Like, yes, movies played a lot. So presumably people coming to see Bradea Frankenstein had seen Frankenstein because it was probably instilled in the movie theaters that week, but maybe they didn't, and it had been five or four years, I think, So, yeah, you come in and you're like, wait, what happened? Oh great, you're gonna tell me? Fantastic love it. I thought it was so it was so simple.

It was like, well, duh, why aren't we always doing the thing? Because but like when I got it and I saw and I knew where I was in the story, and like I didn't need that personally again because you know the lore, you know the beats, right, But like I did find it personally helpful, like it's smart, thank you and really smart for nineteen thirty five. Yeah, absolutely absolutely, how like. Because apparently this had to get edited quite a bit, but like, so it's Byron, it's Mary Shelley, and it's versus Shelley, like they all fucking right. Uh yeah.

I hate depictions of that situation of her writing it. It makes me mad every time. Like do you remember when they did the Netflix uh The Hill House and like, oh yeah, like the Mike Flannagan one. It's like the first episode, it's like, oh, this male character that doesn't exist in the book actually wrote the book and you're like wait what? And it got it like raised my hackles in this really weird way where like is Mike Flanagan taking away authorship of the of that book from early Jackson?

I don't think he was, but like that's like my original Like oh okay, any any depictions of Mary Shelley like conceiving or writing Frankenstein around those two claudes. I always get like, what are you trying to tell me with this depiction? I don't like it. I don't want to see it. Don't pretend you knew what she was thinking about.

I took it as like Mary Shelley, Queen of the Night, hanging out with her her husband and maybe her boyfriend, maybe her husband's boyfriend. Whatever they're they're very openly whatever he wants to be pal and it's just like, hey, we're gonna have a fun night. Yeah, I'm writing a story. Yeah I'm gonna do this with it. How about you?

And he just felt like, oh yeah, they're they're doing more stuff. I can see that. I maybe I upon rewatch, I wouldn't have approached it so like leave her alone, stopped talking to her. I don't know. I heard my own feelings about Percy Shelley and that whole scene that makes me feel ways.

But I obviously I know that. The woman playing Marchelle Lancaster. She's the bride, so like the parallels there were not lost on me. It was she was like this mysterious figure that, like her shadow, loomed large over the story like it all worked and was great. I just personally don't like seeing the live depictions of them.

It makes me mad because people pretend pretend like you know, the whole thing where she didn't really run. Oh yeah, there's oh, there's so much it's like you have essentially the most it can be argued to say, not even just the most important horror novel of all time. But there's an argument made that Franketstein is one of the most important novels ever written. I had a college professor who it was an English class and it was supposed to be like literature eighteen fifty to present day. And the teacher was very very strict about like saying, look, I can't teach Frankenstein in this curriculum because it was written in eighteen eighteen.

But I'm just saying, if you have not read Frankenstein, you're not gonna understand a lot of what I'm talking about, because that is the novel that influenced literature more than anything else. And I've always thought about that and always kind of that's it's taken that really heavy of Yeah, this, what this novel is doing is really important, and there is and I mean Mary Shelley. It screwed the fact that she was a woman. The fact that anybody that young could have written that book is something incredibly remarkable that you know, is one where you understand to an extent why like some conspiracy theorists would be like, well, how could somebody write that? I would accept that if it was just about age, but of course it's not.

It's like, well, how would a woman that young write that? Well, she was pretty damn talented and intelligent and that's why. So yeah, so, I but like the way it was literally handled and this was fine. It was like playful and if harmless and nothing. But like again, I just seeing it, I go like, what's this motherfucker say literally about Percy Shelley.

I read a biography of Mary Shelley when I was like in junior high for a book report or something, and I think I think it was slanted against him quite heavily. I have never looked in the same I look at his books with derision. If anybody wants to talk to me, I'm. Like, I get I get it, But then we just go back into it. I think apparently there was at one point going to be like a coda with them two, but for whatever reason, against it.

Yeah. But yeah, I think that's probably anybody's biggest surprise watching this is how little the bride actually is in the Bride of Frankenstein. Yeah, a lot of the letterbox reviews bring it up and I think probably I knew that also because when you see imagery of her, right, it's like the same the same shot, Yeah, same shot. So like obviously, like by context, she's not in it a lot, but like when you when you're watching it and how good she she is, obviously it feels like you're robbed a little bit, because like it was a really fun characterization of like this this monstrous woman who's been brought back against her autonomy. It was like really fun and not much.

The fact that she is on screen for all of five minutes and doesn't actually have like any real dialogue, and that that is she is one of the most iconic characters of horror history is pretty remarkable. Oh no, she just she cuts an impressive figure. Like it's just just to look at the styling and the design because they do they do what I thought was really interesting to you ask what I guess I didn't expect, Like when they bring her down from like the revival the Lightning Storm, and she's like all wrapped up, and I was like, oh, she looks amazing and glam and beautiful all wrapped up, and then the reveal is like they just cut away and she's just like like this Barbie doll of a of a of a of a design, Like she looks so perfect and well styled, and you're like, whoa, I didn't realize we were going to do this grand reveal, like.

But why should we not look at her? No, totally, it's just you see her all bandaged up, and you think there's going to be like a removing the bandages scene and like the hair starts to but no, they just cut. And she looks like I woke up. I just woke up like this, I just woke up from the dad like this, Ah. So glamorous and just really really wonderful.

The so you get kind of and you you're probably more familiar with the novel than I am, because it's been a hot minute since I've read it. But in some you get some of what happens with the novel here because you get franken stet or I'm sorry, the creature roaming befriending the old blind Man, which is a little closer to the book. Then you get the you know, pre Chorious is not in the book, but the creation of the it's right in the book. It's the monster who basically says, make me a bride and then I'll leave you alone or I'll s I'll kill your wife. Yep, and.

Really not given him much of a choice. Well and yet right and yet yeah, no, he tells him exactly what he's gonna do, and so Frankenstein makes the bride. Then he's like, oh, I shouldn't have done that. Nope, killing her, and then big surprized when time then kills Elizabeth. Right, that's how it works, like mix I mix up.

Now there's a lot of Frankenstein's flipping around in my head. Well, no, because the because Mary Shelley's Frankenstein like the Robert. Yeah, yeah, it's super duper close. But where is slight divergences in it? But yeah, I believe he He says, make me the brider, I'm gonna take Elizabeth, and then he ends up killing Elizabeth because the Frankenstein doesn't deliver on what he told her, doesn't just does.

Not do it or does he do it and he destroys her. I can't remember. He might never do it. In the book, he really drags his feet. A lot of the book's themes is more of him, like trying to avoid the problem he created.

Yes, yes, it's a very true which, yeah, I think that it speaks more to like just never doing it. But you're right, it's been it's been a hot minute since I actually read it, and I have ingested way too many adaptations in between. Have and you have not seen the Gama del Toro one or have you? No? Not yet?

Not yet? No? Yeah, I saw it. I I didn't really care for it. It's gorgeous, it looks so expensive, and you believe he made all like everything on screen is real and touchable and everything.

I think it. The problem I had with that movie is that it's it's very I mean, it's like three Brides of Frankenstein's as one movie. It is so damn long. Yeah, and it feels it because the problem is it's trying to tell basically three stories. It is trying to tell the story of Victor Frankenstein with his daddy issues and him And the thing I like about the movie is that it does make him the villain he is.

He is a coward, He is somebody that doesn't commit and I like that aspect, but it just gets lost because then you have the creature trying to become human and trying to understand who he is, and then you have Elizabeth and the movie does a lot of interesting things with her, except it doesn't have time to do it, so instead it just feels like you're wasting time doing this. That's kind of where I landed on it. But I'm curious when you eventually watch it if you'll feel differently. But it was one of the things I liked about it was it to me was absolutely clear that no, Victor frankett Stein is the monster of this movie. I do like that because that's part of the reason a lot of the adaptations don't really interest me, is when like I get that he's a monster, so it's right there, but like, when you don't explore the you know, Frank's Stein's responsibilities in the story, then I'm kind of not that interested in the story anymore.

So it's good to hear, but I don't get the Frankenstein and Elizabeth romance things. That's what's honestly kept me from really seeking it out. If I would say, actually, the del Toro one doesn't really go that route, which I was surprised by. Okay, like, there is some tension between the two, but she is not a love interest for Victor. Frankenstein and what he's doing with her.

I guess him, yeah, yeah, she's so her alignment with the monster isn't really connected with the Frankenstein character. So I guess that's interesting. It's it makes again like I don't think it comes together just because I don't. I think he had three hours, and he also wastes time on like a whole Christoph Vaults supplot that doesn't go anywhere. Uh, but there is there's like a kernel of something interest.

Like clearly he had ideas about what he wanted to do with Elizabeth character. But he also said Kimoto Toro, who I again one of those people I feel like I would really like like my mc garris thing where it's like I really like it, say that I would love to have dinner with you, But I don't always like your movies and I and Cammel tour isn't much better filmmaker than mc garrass But also I just I, aside from I don't know pants laborate, like I have not fully connected with his stuff in a while. Uh. So he had said he had thought about making two movies, one of the Creature and one of Victor Frankenstein, which also to me says like, oh, so you never even thought of making a movie of Elizabeth because that wasn't in your thoughts, but you tried to weave a story in there anyway.

At some point, I'm curious for to hear what you have to think about it. But it was obviously fresh in my mind watching this, just because that was another take on on the material in a different way. Mm hmm hmm. Yeah, absolutely, So what did you think of in that story? It's a great story.

I get it. I get it, I mean, and you can also do a lot of I think, different things with it, both visually and story wise, because they're heirdly long novel like you can pull different threads and ignore others. So the first film, right, you have Franken or the monster at the creature out, but you don't have him. Can you have the famous moment where he plays Daisies with a child and then throws her into the water and she drowns, But you don't have him talking right the first that that is one thing that you haven't seen Freakenstein in the In the first film, Frankenstein does not speak. He is mostly just moaning.

In this movie, right, he learns to use words from the beginning, and he is getting better at them throughout the film, so when he meets the blind man, he actually has a whole you know, conversation with him and friendship with him and learns how to smoke cigars. I did like that part. It was cute. It was it was nice. I mean the problem with the movie adaptations is like that whole thing with him and that and the family and the and the blind man.

He's there for a while in the book, so like you can't really do that in a movie. They do it and your most oh interesting, Okay, well now I'm just curious. But in this one, I did think even though like obviously we were on a shortened timeline, like they really shortened the concept down, but I feel like they captured what it was supposed to like, uh hell us about the experience. I agree like that there is the ability for both somebody to accept him and for him to grow. Yeah yeah, and in this case, like yeah, what it requires is for this person not to be able to see his face, because once people see him, they react the way they do.

But as long as you don't, then this just sounds like another man, a man who maybe you know is not well spoken, but there's nothing to this blind man to suggest that this guy is, you know, a quote unquote monster. So they form a friendship, and then as soon as a seeing person comes in, it's well, no, he's a monster, to shoot him, yep, And so I think that's that makes sense. I think the the then I guess where I really want to know. Two things I want to know from your that I'm curious how you feel about. One is how you feel about Frankenstein in general in this movie Viktor Frankenstein.

The other is the ending and the decision of you know, of the fates of the Frankenstein monster couple. So I believe his name is Henry in this movie. No, but like I get why because like in the next movie his name's Charles. But we're not there yet, so let's bring it on back to Henry. So he I believe he's probably very consistent with his Frankenstein proper character, where he doesn't feel like he has a lot of like real responsibility here, but like he doesn't want to keep doing it, which is nice.

I do appreciate that he just wants to marry Elizabeth, who I don't think is like almost his sister. And very young in this movie, it doesn't feel that way. I can't remember in the in the first film how that goes. But yeah, but like I'm cool. I think their relationship's cute.

She seems real, like bossy and like, no, she went hard enough to know. That before they declare her fiance dead and bury him, that she can like, you know, see if he's breathing. Just check, just check out, maybe maybe nudge him. But I liked him again the Colin Clive is that his name, I'm not looking at it. Very handsome man, really great casting, because he kind of looked a bit scummy too, which is how I feel about Victor Frankenstein.

So when you're doing an analog, I guess that's great. He's a little untrustworthy feeling, but also like a debonair leading man type, so I don't it's I want him to be an all out haterable monster. But if you're not doing that, like this is. Great because you have a more villainous character right to the right of him. Fortunately, oh, which was exactly such a good point.

Yeah, because without that doctor pretorious character, like then where's your real and where's your foil? And like I think because he seems so kind of like checked out, like that character was extra fun, kind of like prodding him along to do this terrible thing that he knew he shouldn't do. Yeah, now once so we you know, we resurrect the bride. She's born. She looks Frankenstein.

She points and hisses, and it's not into him. And the Monster makes a decision we belong dead, which is obviously a line that you have heard before. Hello, Bride of Chucky. You remember at the end of Bride of Shecky, Yes, she said we belong dead. It's very funny and cute.

Yes, So I I appreciate in the We Belong Dead that he is absolutely talking about doctor Pretorius as well. If you reduce it down to just the monsters, that sucks And I don't like, like, that's not cool, But the monster is really right because that dude should be alive either, So I did. I did like that obviously. I guess that I don't love that the monster gets to choose for the bride, but she's clearly not doing well, so he's probably onto something. He is living this misery that he didn't ask for.

What it's going to be like, Yeah, yeah, and I will say. One thing, and this is too much information, but who cares? She does she hate me, which is really touching, and I do love as a as a Frankenstein's Monster lover. I do think that's very touching and in the context of this movie from the thirties, beautiful. But there was a grouping of men that kind of recontextualized that she hate me as a way to feel really bad about themselves and like anticipate rejection from all women.

So it rubs me the wrong way, I get it. Yeah, but like in the context of this film in the thirties, it's very poetic and beautiful. Yeah, that's why I was curious about your thoughts on it, because I agree. I think like it makes perfect sense for this film that, yeah, the monster who has lived this life and knows what's coming is understands like I shouldn't be here, You shouldn't be here, and this guy that's gonna keep trying to do this certainly shouldn't be here. But there is an aspect of it, and that's that's why I'm really excited to get to the next movie that really does just basically say, oh, you have no saying this whatsoever, lady like, sorry, we're brought back.

You shouldn't remember brought back. We're gonna end this right now, and it is something that I don't you know again in nineteen thirty five makes perfect sense for how it goes, but it does make you think, like, well, I'm sure people wondered what would happen if that's not how it goes, And that's gonna bring us into the next film that is true. Look at that segue. How about that? Do you need a quick break?

Uh sure, Okay, we'll be back to talk about the bride. No exclamation point, don't give me any of your back mumble you you you monster. Dude. You're different. I knew it would be the same, that you'd play a different game cause you're different.

Ah, you're different. I don't know whether you complain, but you're driving me insane cause you're different. You're different. Now, masagree, you're not incredibly handsome or even charming, but you can be so disarming. I think it simply olming.

You're different, as Unreaddictal Lazarine. You're an easter, Kanady Cane. Yes, you're different, a different like a snowy day in June, like a new Brazilian June. Yeah you're different, Yeah. More different.

Okay, so now moving foot woh. It was the fiftieth anniversary of the Bride of Frankenstein when they did the Bride. Oh that's right, it's adorable. Oh cute? All right?

So you had never seen this. I had never seen this. We came up last time we were somehow we stumbled on because you had seen something else by that director, maybe Frank Carotum. I don't know. I might have just seen it come up.

Okay when everyone was talking about the Gill and Hall ride, it was kind of like, wait, Sting was in a Frankenstein movie and I haven't seen that. Yeah. I had long known it existed, but had never taken the time for it. And it is not It's out there, but it's not easily accessible. I had to rent it from Amazon.

Yeah, I think like even I was going to just buy the DVD, but the DVD was like twenty five bucks, so and it wasn't. I was hoping it would find like a seven pack or something, but it's unfortunately not that available. I had a really interesting experience with this movie, so I'm very curious. How about you. We are going to spoil things, obviously, because we kind of have to to talk about it, so we do.

Hope people watch. I hope people watch it. What were your thoughts on The Bride? So I overall I was a little bored by it fair, but the opening scene is outrageous. This movie starts and I'm wondering what was the budget here?

Because it's the same thing I thought watching Del Torros Frankstein. The entire movie. I'm like, I can see every dollar on screen and I'm not complaining. And that's how I felt with this one. I was watching.

I'm like, this, this was an expensive movie. This looks expensive. It does that opening scene specifically, and I'm I'm gonna say it loses it. I don't know what's going on, but that the lighting is wild. Yeah, it's like this huge, gorgeous yea with this cue castle.

Yep, it's ridiculous. You know in the first Matrix how it opens and it's like the big Trinity fight thing. Anybody who maybe you know what I'm talking about. I believe it's been twenty years since I've watched the Mame. It's just this big, amazing fight and I guess the Watchowski's made that with like the proof of concept, so it kind of works as its own thing.

It almost feels like the opening scene of this movie fel felt like that to me, like, did you guys do this to prove that you could do it? Because you got mine, Bunny, I'm sold. It kind of. It kind of just like unravels from there in a way that left me feeling a little cold. Fair fair for me, I was, I was not feelings.

Oh really, okay, because I'm really curious what you think, because this honestly where I felt it failed. I wondered if you thought maybe it succeeded. Okay, so the movie starts again. I'm with you. I'm like, oh I and I love that.

It just basically almost serves as like a direct continuation of Bride of Frankenstein. It's like, imagine if we stopped Bride of Frankenstein five minutes before the ending, right where we're bringing this woman back to life, and we bring her to life, and instead of we belong dead, instead we get she's alive. Chaos ensues, there's a fire, and this is the alternate timeline of that movie. It felt very fitting that way, and then this one, So now you have the monster who we're gonna start calling Victor, which again it's very confusing Victor who ends up kind of having his side adventure. He befriends a little person named Ronaldo who they go to the circus.

They have a life at the circus, bad things happen. He comes back. Meanwhile, the bride who becomes Eva comes to life, looks like Jennifer Bials. So Henry frankenstet no, Charles Frankenstein, God damn it. Charles Frankenstein says, Okay, I am going to make you into the perfect woman.

I am gonna make you equal to men. I am going to educate you, and we're gonna look what I can do. And so she has a different life where she is sort of again it's very poor things as well, where she's becoming educated, aware, learning society, learning who she is there and then basically turns a corner where suddenly she's saying, wait, why am I your reward? Wait? Who am I?

What did you do to me? What else can I do in the world? And on paper, that's really interesting watching the movie, I was also not really feeling it once after that opening, I was kind of like, ohh this is happening. This feels like it costs a lot of money. It feels like it doesn't I have two completely different stories happening, and I'm not really into how they're not lining up or lining up.

It felt very icky with kind of how the bride is being sort of groomed and finessed and all of this. But then once I get to the third act and once kind of Eva sort of becomes herself and realizes, I'm I want to go find Carrie Elwisson, fuck him, and I don't think I belong to Charles. I want to know what else is out there. I'm intrigued again. And then you get the big finale, which I did not like the idea of because I'm watching it and I'm rolling my eyes.

I'm like, oh great, I see what's happening. Charles is now going to try to rape Eva. Victor is going to come and save her. Victor is going to die in the process, and that's gonna be the end of the movie. He was gonna move on, the men are gonna be dead, and that's it.

And that's not what happens. Charles does try to rape Eva, which feels like, uh like it didn't have to go that route. There was something to Charles for the whole movie is not does not seem to be attracted to her. It really is him more being proud of his creation and like making then it is an actual Also, she's hot and I want her. So then for the ending to turn into know your Mind and here's how I'm gonna show your mind felt very like, oh, this is I don't want this to be the finale.

And then Victor is showing up at the right time. I'm like, well, he's gonna obviously die trying to save her, but he doesn't, right because he lives, she lives. And it ends with them being like, let's just travel together and see what happens and I'll actually by the end of it, I was kind of like, oh, I love this for them. I don't know if they're romantic together. I don't know if they're friends.

I don't know what that relationship is, but essentially it's them at the end figuring out like we're equals. We were both we both maybe shouldn't be here, but we are here, so let's make the best of it and explore this wonderful world. And that kind of got me. No, I can agree with that, And the only problem is that the first five minutes in the last two minutes have a lot of stuff in between them, exactly because because I completely agree with you, I just felt like the return of Victor the monster to the scene and then his alignment with Eva was just so last minute that VI itself didn't give me time to feel the weight of it, and it did wry like it has. This thing that I don't think goes anywhere, which is they seem to have a psychic link where he's said she feels it, when she's said he feels it, and it to no end.

It really means nothing. For them truly, and it's like I get but and if all you're doing is using that to establish their inherent connection, that's fine. But again I still maintain that that last little bit needed like a hint more breathing room to like really fully set in to like this. At this point, they've both lost, they've both developed separately, and then on their turned together they can essentially interact as non codependent individuals in a more healthy kind of relationship. So it's all right there and I do enjoy it, but I don't think the movie the movie allows us to bask in it.

Yeah, well, especially because once, Yeah, I wonder if you're gonna say the exact same thing. I was gonna say, no, no, go ahead, Probably not. I was gonna say, what really bothers me? Again, Like, when if I were to write this plot out, I would feel pretty good about it, but I don't because like the details aren't there. And so when you get to that finale and suddenly it is Eva just physically trying to run away from Sting and like it just in this house, like oh no, he closed that door.

Oh no, he closed that door. Oh no, he's grabbed me. I'm like, uh, like this this is crappy. And that then like Victor shows up and I think like Charles like slaps her or something where she passes out, and I just felt so like, oh, this is where we're going, Like she's just knocked out and now she's gonna wake up at the end, and that is where it goes. And that's really disappointing.

Yeah, it is. I think I think a lot of the issue comes from whose story it is, when and why, and like I don't know if that is all on the screen for me in a way, that is like as digestible as it could be, Like I, all the elements are there, they really are. And even like his relationship with with Ronaldo, Victor's relationship Ronaldo is like a bit Sacreine. It really worked for Zach. He really enjoyed it, but like it was a little Sacharine and on the nose for me.

But I still understand what the point of it was, just like The Blind Man and very much the story. It sits to show who he can be if he's treated like a human and and like that's important to the story. And I did like it here, but we spent an exorbitant amount of time on it. While I didn't feel like Eva Gut even near that same treatment, the closest I felt like we got. So he's trying to my fair lady her, which is so wild that this is like Frankenstein my fair lady.

And then he brings her to the weird party and she hisses at the cat and I'm like, all right, now we're talking. This is a weird faral monster girl. But she was never really allowed to do that, no, And I is it the inherent sexism of like of everything that like in the eighties. She wasn't given a fair shake as a character. And that's what's interesting and why, like I would have loved for somebody to remake this movie because I think there is something very because I agree like the Rinaldo and Victor staff it's very simple, right, but it's it's cute and it's sweet, and basically Ronaldo immediately clocks him as like, oh, you need me, like you don't know what you're doing, but and you're big, so you can carry me.

I love that when he's like, hey, you know you could carry me and to get there faster, like cause he's not like a you know, a sweet little man, like he's very much like sees there's something in it for him, but also like they become friends and you totally buy that they care about each other. You know, as soon as he shows his flying trick, you're like, well, obviously somebody's gonna cut the cord and he's gonna die. Oh you know that as soon as you meet him, you know he's gonna die horribly. Like it just feels very clear. I said I said that to Zach and he's like really, And I was like, this guy the second he could showed up to the screen.

I was counting down to when he was gonna die. What are you talking about? It's like the rule of like I talk a lot about the website, does the doogdie dot com? Right? It's like if you're watching a movie and there's a cute dog or there's a cat, and you want to know, I just need to know, tomaut you there should be something, especially in the movies that came out in the nineteen eighties, does the lovable sidekick die?

Because it was such a thing that would happen. You would and especially as a kid, like you watch movies like that and you'd very much get invested in this side character who's nice, right, who's like the one nice person in a movie? Ye, and you would always get invested in. Then they would die and it would really upset you. And I knew that.

So as soon as this character shows up, I'm like, oh, he's dead, and like it's very clear that you know. Whenever they refer to each other like that, right, Ronaldo always calls Victor my friend. He's always referring to me as my friend, whereas Charles Frankenstein is always calling Eva my ward. Right, So right away, like there's there's that like there's a clear parallel going on. There's this attempt to show like, here's Victor out in the world, and yes, people are mean to him because they look at him and they see a monster, even though it's cleansing browt who's beautiful.

But there's this inherent like automatically people treat him a certain way, but they're also afraid of him. So there's also like a limit on how much people will mess with him. With Eva, you have a different story because you have this gorgeous woman again, so people are going to treat her differently. But also she's not gonna have agency, she's not going to be able to do things. And I feel like there were kernels of something interesting there, the fact that she is the one who is pursuing a romance with carry Elwis, baby Face carry Elwis, and it is all her, it is not him, Like she is actively like I like you, you're hot, I'm I am going to put myself in your orbit and I want to do this.

I'm coming here because I want to be had by you, and I will. And again the movie isn't like it's not fully pushing there, but it's like that's I think the idea it's going for like it just if it could have pushed further there, maybe there was something because instead it's kind of squashed before it can go anywhere. Uh so you don't really understand, like okay, but what is where else can this go? For her? It the inevitable of well, now this guy wants to marry you because you belong to him.

And so it does feel like it's like the getting and the end. Yes, like set this kind of goal like goalpost, and everything in the middle doesn't meet it, and you just wish maybe, like I don't know, if we spread it out farther or if we push them closer together, could we have gotten something better? I think there was a really interesting story to be told from this exact material just finessed a little differently. I found the ending satisfying, Yeah, and I found the opening satisfying to you, Like the idea of the ending is honestly it's giving, like Hunger Games when they let Peta and Katnis just like be together and find Yeah, it's just kind of like what more do we need to put these people through?

So I really do appreciate that, But like I don't know what was seeing even in it, Like I it's just to me. I really think it boiled down to who who got time? This? Yeah? Everything, yeah, and how everything was divided because I think I would have been cool if it was anybody's story, but like it couldn't be everybody's story.

That's a really good point. And I feel like if I feel a bit like it was like I never was able to get like emotional resonance. I wasn't able to hate Sting as much as I wanted to or love Eva as much as I wanted to, because there was always something else happening. Yeah, because I I do. I feel like Jennifer Beal's does not get the chance to really do much that I can't say if she gave she doesn't get yeah no, because I mean she's she should be a blanky who then kind of finds.

That's what I was gonna ask you, Yeah, yeah, if you if you thought her performance was good, because there was like a like a niggling of like she was bad or she didn't deliver. But then I really thought about it, and I was like she wasn't given anything because when she hissed at the cat, I was like yeah, right, right, we come on and then like we didn't do it again. And then when carry El's is like, I don't like you WHOA Okay, I would have just it fully could have been her movie, but. Like it just wasn't. No, and I it's probably like I wonder screen time wise, how how it's divided, because I feel like it's probably like really equal between all three of them, and maybe that's the problem.

I like, I don't think Sting was intended to be. I think initially Sting was going to be the Cary Elvis role. I don't know exactly what happened along the way for them to say, like, no, you can play the lead role. And I don't think he's bad in it, I think, And I like the fact that this movie makes him the villain, like he is the bad guy in the story. Never is the monster the bad guy, Like you know that immediately that Victor is not a villain.

And part of that is just the I mean even like, and I think this makes sense for the story, right, the makeup on Victor is not it there's a restraint to it, right, because he has to look like somebody that would exist in the real world. That could that you would you would flinch if you saw him. But he does look like a human. Being, and they soften him as it goes, like you can start to see like you know, you know when Clancy's gonna start to make a bit of a turn because like his hair gets better and he doesn't look as corpse colored, but he looks more like human colored. And like you know, like in a movie when they soften a lady's makeup and you're like, oh, they're gonna make her kind of nicer now, and then she is, she's like she like cries in that scene or something that means exactly like a love interest.

So like when they soften him, I'm like, oh, they're trying to make him look like a person now. Yep, yep, that's true. Hey, I wouldn't have said no. I would mean, alrighty's closing. It's my number one after my husband, you know, it's my number two.

Just be clear that because he listens. I don't know if people are not, but I'm just gonna cover my basis there. But I mean bad voice. God, and he's very good and he's great. Yeah, he's doing exactly what he needs to do for it.

You feel for him. You are wishing him the best, you want him to grow. You are so worried about people being mean to him, and I like that people are like there are people who are mean to him, but there are people who are like, could be meaner and they're not. When he comes across like the peddler selling like you know, kind of crappy jewelry and he wants to buy something and he has no concept of money. He does not know how much a gold coin and the fact that he has ten gold coins, which is like a million dollars, and I like that the peddlar is like could have taken all of his money, and instead it's like, oh no, I can't do that.

Fine, here take all these back. I'll just take this one. It's like a nice moment of that was humanness and kindness that I feel like makes this movie again. It makes me intrigued. It like why I want it to be better because there's a spirit to this movie that I really appreciate.

Oh totally. That part was really cool and it is kind of you kind of touched on it when you were like the only nice person in an eighties movie just died. But like there there is that thing that would happen where everyone was crappy and everything sucked and it was like laborious and sad to be there. So it was nice that not everybody was a complete craphead. I do it did stand out, So I wonder, I wonder what the deal with this movie is.

Yeah, I didn't get to do it enough. What research on what didn't work? Yeah? Because it does feel like again, like you wonder the fact that you have sting who this is afternoon or before Dune? Do you know Dune is what you're Oh, I'm not sure.

I think Dune is ripe before this. Think June is eighty four and this is eighty five. The Yeah, I'm just trying to see, like if there's anything on the quick background of it. But I don't see it. Like I know this was a bomb.

I know it didn't do well. Critics didn't like it, audiences didn't go to see it, and I understand that, Like I could see this not being a hit for a lot of reasons. I think what bugs me is that it feels like such it's not even just an interesting concept. Yeah, obviously you could basically an alternate telling other Bride of Frankenstein. That's interesting, but it's not that it's that you really do.

There's there's substance here right, like it could have easily gone in different directions, but it feels like it does have things to say about about these people becoming their own, about a woman kind of uh not being about like patriarchy, trying to direct this woman in a certain way and her kind of having this awareness of I don't want to do that. There's things here. It's just ultimately so like simple and how it gets there and just doesn't do enough with it. The writer, so the director, we talked about less times. The director went on to create Master Chef, so I'm sure he has a lot of money from me sets.

He also directed Quadraphenia, which I'd never actually seen, but didn't after that, I did not have a huge filmmaking career, and I think this probably didn't help him because I'm guessing this must have been expensive and it didn't make money. So again, he found a very seemingly successful life and TV, but didn't really go back to film that much. The writer was Lloyd Funvielle, who is responsible for and it's always hard to tell from the way these credits go. He did the story for Cherry two thousand, which is a movie I've always meant to see him not have you ever seen it? It's the Melanie Griffiths future movie.

Okay. He did the screen story for The Mummy, the nineteen ninety nine Mummy, the Brandon Frazer one, but he's not credited as the screenplay. So interesting he again like paide money from it, obviously for and he's also then gets the credit for The Mummy Returns and the video games and so on, So it's I'm sure it's he's probably one of those guys who like has worked in a million things and just not everything makes like he didn't get the credit for it, But it's it just makes me wonder because it's an it's not an easy script in a lot of ways, and yet it doesn't. It's not tight enough to have given us what we all what we both wanted from it, and yet I can't. I found this movie much more interesting than I expected it to be, and much more satisfying than I expected it to be, but also really frustrating because as you're saying, I mean, it's six through like one hundred and eighteen are not that good.

It like a little a little boring, a little like plotting, not as visually interesting as like the opening scenes specifically. But I would never dissuade anybody from Trot from like watching it, because agreed, it does things right and it is interesting, you know, And for. A movie of this era made seemingly by a studio with a lot of money behind it by men, I feel like it it is a little more open minded than I would have expected. Mm hmm, yeah, definitely. The time period eighty five is really it doesn't feel like an eighty five movie.

It doesn't. It feels more a little more modern in that way. I had to love. I'm watching the opening credits and I see Tim's fall. I'm like, oh, I wonder what Tim's Fall's doing this movie?

Oh gee, what do you think, Emily, it's a Frankenstein movie. Who is Tim small play? Obviously he's gonna be the Igor character. Oh yeah, I forget that that character is in this Yeah. Because he just kind of goes away.

We never see him again, right, Like I guess he dies in the fire. Say true, that's what I mean though, about like something in the connective tissue not holding this together, right, because like I should know where characters win. I shouldn't just be like, whatever. Happened to them, Yeah, I guess he died the oh yeah, yeah. And even and again that's where I think one of the places too, as I'm saying that that feels again Missus and Mark a little bit is as much as I don't want this to be Frankenstein's story, because I think it really is about his, you know, his creations, I also could not quite place where Frankenstein is in this world.

Is he. Well, is he respected? Is he not? Like you get a little bit of it towards the end when Carrie Elwis says like, oh, well, you know he got kicked out of med school for this and this and this. But like it was just one more thing of realizing, like the context of even this character in this place wasn't very clear from the beginning.

Mm hmm. I wonder if that is just because there's this thinking of like, yeah, yeay, Frankenstein, we got it. Yeah. And again I do appreciate that the movie opens right in the action. The open the movie opens, it is thundering, and here is the bride of Frankenstein being raised up to get electrocuted and come to life, like doesn't give you any recap, doesn't force any exposition of like, well, you asked them for a bride, so I'm making you a bride, and this is the bride, and this like it feels very much of Look, we know that everybody knows Frankenstein, We know that everybody roughly knows about the bride.

Here we're starting this movie, and I really do like that. Mm hmm. I agree. There's stuff here, There's definitely stuff here. Yeah, it's an interesting failure.

I guess this is what I probably call it. Like, I don't think it works. I would be surprised to hear anybody like really really vouch for it. But I also would not be surprised to see to like read really interesting essays about it, because I can understand this movie kind of like getting under people's brains for them to say, like, but it was it was doing something, it was trying to do something, and it doesn't quite get there. But it again the fact that it and I feel like that's something that's been happening to me lately is like when a movie ends well, I end up being so forgiving of it in a different way, than I expected.

And that's a little bit of how I felt with this one. Have I ever told you the story of when I was working at Applebee's in Times Square. I worked with a kind of a terrible server. His name was Steven. He was really bad at his job.

He would disappear for long periods and time so you could go watch baseball at the bar area and his tables would be looking at me like they needed help. And I said to Steve and Stephen, how do you make any money at this job? And he said, well, when I dropped the check, I look the person directly in their eyes and I shake their hands, and I said, I hope you had a wonderful experience tonight, because I sure did. And they only remember that last bit and they tit me. A lot of money that it's amazing.

It really reframed my whole understanding of human interactions. Oh my god. Yeah, no, he's not wrong, and yeah, but. It's kind of that like, yeah, like if you get maybe what a little of what you want, at the end, you're like, you know what, honestly, that all wasn't that right? Satisfied?

I leave here satisfied. Yeah, And it's so funny because I get it. It makes sense. I have. Because we've we've talked before about movies, were like the ending fumbles and how I can be really forgiving of it, And usually I can be, like we talked about him, right, that's a movie where I think it ends and you have no idea what it was doing.

Yellow Brick Road my my prime example of a movie that didn't know how to so, oh, wait for eighty nine minutes and then it's like I don't know what to do. We're just gonna do this and we hope you like it. The Last Exorcism another one that I go to a lot as an example, but usually I'm I can forgive them. Uh my recent exception was already supreme because that movie ends and I'm like, oh, this ending undoes the entire movie I just watched. It's awful.

I hate it. Goodbye. So that can happen. The reverse can happen either way. But yeah, so I guess I will look the bride straight in the eye, shake its hand and say I had a wonderful time tonight.

I hope you did too. I mean, look, it's worth it's worthy of that treatment. Yeah, Yeah, it's worthy of a tip, I would have given it twenty percent. No question, yep, absolutely absolutely. Wow, All right, do you have any more to say about The Bride?

It's so unfortunately it's a little hard to find. Like you said, if you're a streaming somewhere, I would say, just have it out, But if you have to put effort into it like a lot, I don't know, Like what I wonder if the first scene is anywhere watch that? Yeah again four buck rental on Amazon. Everybody, it is your choice. I wouldn't.

I just we've talked about this, like it feels wrong for me to ever spend money on movies when I'm already paying way too much for streaming. So I this is a good like you to see it and you use DVD store, grab it because you can probably resell it to somebody Like yeah, but yeah, I'm glad I watched it. I really am me too. It's nice to add to the pantheon of like Frankenstein's, especially because the way it handles the ending. Yep.

And I do think it has something interesting to explore with material that had at that point already been done quite a few times. It did find a new way in which I also appreciate. So yeah, all right, get in its high and I can always think about that every time now and say I had a great time tonight. I hope you did too. I guess it works.

I guess yeah. Well, on that note, not sure what we're doing next. We'll talk about that off Mike, unless you have any ideas you want to throw out to the people. I don't. I don't have anything prepared.

I'm so sorry. That's all right, we'll we'll figure that out. And then Christine, I look you in the eye and I say I had a wonderful time tonight. I hope you did too. I did, Thank you.

Here's a lot of money for doing very little. Yes, oh man, this is easy the original with a fan. Now, all these being down, be ready, bell. Sleeve be back. I'm a feed in about a week, but only silent in a week.

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