The Feminine Critique 159. The Legend of Psycho II

Weirding way media man, dig that crazy chick. Oh Shan Shan We shot shot shot shot shot shot shot shot we shot. Welcome back to another episode of The Feminine Critique, number one fifty nine, confirmed by me checking that before we started recording, I'm Emily with me as always, Oh Christine, I was gonna just introduce myself, you know, hello Christine. If we ever had like a smooth, clean intro, I feel like that's the day that skype and call recorder crash and it does not meant to be because this is how we roll. Yeah, no, yeah, I'm Christine, Hello, the one and only the best, and I have the pleasure of doing a podcast with her.

How lucky am I? Everybody even luckier today, even luckier because it is not just me and Christine. Instead, you have the dulcet tones of one of our favorite people. He is a writer, he is a thinker, He is a mover and a shaker and a great eater. I'm gonna say that too.

He is back on tour all of those things and more, The one and only Keith Allison. Hi there, although actually hi there, I feel with dulcet tones, I think maybe I should bring it down and adds some reverb to your voice, just just you know, I'll do that, Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know what, in terms of clean intros, I listened to Conan O'Brien's podcast and they get paid to do that, and they've never had a clean intro. I don't know if that makes me feel better or angry. Yeah yeah, but anyway, Keith, thank you for joining us on this Super Bowl Sunday edition of The Feminine Critique.

It is my pleasure I have. You know, I picked football movies, right, Keith? Oh yeah, yeah. I feel like there's at least one of these movies has characters who probably play football, so oh, okay, one of them just I'm gonna I'm gonna say Billy Jean certainly does. I'm gonna say Psycho too.

Maybe it has characters that would watch the Puppy Bowl. Yeah right, all right, and I mean, really, who do you want to spend time with at the end of the day. Well, and both come from an era when it was perfectly common and acceptable for men to wear those little football half shirts. True. True?

How do we feel ab that? Do we want that error coming back? Or are we okay, okay, we used to be a society. It's just I have a long rambling rants last speech. I can go on on the transition from eighties where men would still wear uh, what we back then called shorts, which are now called short shorts, and and half keys and all of this, and then at some point this this like gay panic or i'm too given in panic kicks in uh and all of that ends.

On one hand, it's it's a very good point, you make an excellent point that there is something very homophobic about being afraid of that clothing. And the other I want to say, um, I if short shorts, I'm sorry chafing, chafing. Every time I see a man or a woman wearing short shorts, I just think, even though it was with really good thighs, there is a danger of chafing, and it just doesn't look comfortable to me. Same thing with half shirts. I think two things.

One, I have to really hope that they are sunscreening properly, because you're gonna get a really weird tan otherwise. And the other thing, and I don't know if you guys both feel this way. I don't like parts of my skin that don't normally get touch public spaces to touch public spaces, so that always like imagine wearing a half shirt football shirt and going to the movies and sitting down in a movie theater on a movie theater bucket seat that has been touching strangers all day long and probably has popcorn stuck to it, and all of that is just losing into your sweaty exposed middriff every which direction. Does that up bother you, guys. I have a friend whose main issue with short shorts, which one.

I'm going to go on record. I'm all for them, and we'll wear them frequently. We're looking at people in them, but hers is the back of the lower half of your thigh touching a New York subway. But they clean the trains, right, they clean the chaine. Yeah, yeah, now they do.

Now they do. They did not for a very long time. It was weird for during the early days of COVID to walk on the subway and be like, what is that smell? What the hell is that smell? I've never smelled it before, and realized it was like cleaning solution.

Yeah. Well, this has been good because it's New York Fashion Week, so I'm glad we're getting Yeah, I mean, these things will come back. Christine, where do you stand on? I mean, I know you're all in favor of the look, but the actual skin touching things you're cool with that, like with my bear skin touching things. Would you wear a football half shirt and short shorts and ride the New York Subway and go to a movie theater?

I uh, if I could just slip into a potato sack at any given time, I would probably just do that. So my answer to that is absolutely not. I'm not wearing anything, but you would admire. Yeah, all black fabric head to toe, not on an inch of skin showing. That's That's where I'm at.

YEA. I also guarantee you that here at New York Fashion Week, we're on a runway right now. Someone is debuting now that is basically just an all black You're here, folks, damp stir your time is always Christine On Speaking of timeliness, let's let's talk about the movies we're covering today, both legendary movies and in very different ways from the same era. I don't remember the connecting thread between the two um but Keith, as our guest, announced what they are. These These were your picks eventually.

So the connecting thread was I'll start with the first one, first film, The Legend of Billy Jean Uh and I just honestly, I was listening to a mixtape and the Pat Benatar song Invincible came on, which is a fantastic song, and it made me think fondly back to this movie, and for whatever reason, maybe just because I love the both of you, I was like, I would love to talk about this movie with Emily and Christine, and so I pitched it. You said yes, and then idea of well, what's the second movie? And for me, I figured, since I've been on here before and didn't talk about horror films, that I was like, let me come up with a horror film. And I came up with Night of the Comet, which, of course you've already done, and we both are huge fans, and that would have actually made a very logical pairing.

It makes a logical pairing. But then I was you know, that had already been covered. So I was thinking, well, just a horror film from the eighties. Let's let's stay with the nineteen eighties. Maybe it's something that was popular at the time and a little bit forgotten.

And then I just happened to be in a conversation with someone about how we really need to get people talking about Psycho two again. So the second film Psycho to the twenty two year in the making a sequel to a film some people may have heard of Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho although it be in the eighties, it's not Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho too. And it's also not Alfred Hitchcock Psycho two or what's what's the author's name, Robert Block, Robert Block, although there is a funny story about his involvement in Psycho two. Oh yes, So we're going to dive into all of that, and we're gonna do reverse order. We're gonna start with Psycho two.

We're gonna go I'm gonna say this is a movie that if you haven't seen it, please watch it. It's really twisty. There are some great reveals and some great plot things that are you are better off going into unfamiliar. So we will spoil because I think we just need to talk through all of it. If you haven't seen it, we're going to give plot threads away, so we would recommend watching it beforehand.

It's screaming on Apple. Or you could go back in time like I did, like fifteen years ago and find one DVD set that had Psycho two, three, and four all on there and buy that for like five ninety nine. That's what I would recommend, but a little harder probably to do. There's also so I have Roku, and there's those the bottom of the list channels. Oh yeah, you can get through Roku.

And there's one called Fawesome. Oh, I've heard of that one. And so Psycho two is streaming for free sweet there with some commercials, but it's it's there for your use. Oh and I'm angry because I'm one of those people kind of like most of us people now these days, where I sat down and I knew I was going to watch this, but I thought to myself before I get up and like bend down and get the DVD out of its case and plug in my DVD player because I have to unplug it because it's possessed and otherwise turns my TV on at different times at night. Let me see if it's streaming, so I don't have to actually do that physical labor, and it you can come up.

It only came up as rentable on um Apple TV. So justwatch dot com get your act together. Fawsome is there and you're not. You're not pulling it. So I don't like that, Christine, how did you watch it?

I rented it? Okay, okay, I I should probably own it at this point, but I just I just rented it. Um. I have a complex relationship with this movie, so I didn't. I don't know that I wanted in my house.

Oh oh, no exciting or do we have like different, different relationship that's funny, No, I get it. Yeah, So should we do a synopsis of this this pub please again? Spoilers? Do it? Yeah?

Spoiler spoilers. So this is like in the future of the of the Happenings of Psycho. It's uh later on and yeah, everybody's all grown up. So basically, Norman's getting released from whatever institution he has been put in, and Vera Miles, who is the sister of maryon Crane, is there and she's angry and she doesn't want him release, which I mean, look, I get I guess, but she goes a little too far with it in my opinion. So Sir Norman goes back to the house in the hotel and he just wants to live a normal life and stuff.

And he meets the beautiful, vivacious Meg Tilly at his new job and she's great and wonderful and the most beautiful woman alive. And they have a really strange relationship. And then weird stuff starts happening at the house. People start going missing or getting killed. And then who's dressing up his mother?

Who's calling Norman? Is Norman crazy? Again? It was Norman ever crazy? Who knows?

And then yeah, people are awful to him and mean to him and it's not his fault. Hashtag justice for Norman until the until the final beat where we're normal and that. But that was completely justified. That was completely okay. Well, just explain what happens, because again we're spoiling it's okay.

I didn't all right, I didn't know how in depth. I'll go for it this way. If somebody's like, oh, I'm not going to watch it'll just listen to them talk. They have contact for what's going on. So this this movie, I think, to me, honestly, is a little too twisty to the point where it's almost a little convoluted.

Um. But but I just think. I don't mean like for enjoyment moment wise. I just think for like pacing and story, it's just a lot that starts to get a little muddled because we're not ever I don't really think it's it's tough because for a while we're not really sure what's happening, and to me, that hurts the enjoyment. Like if I'm in the dark for too long and started to get confused, then I don't know if I want to continue to do work for your movie.

But like, I don't know if it ever really dipped into that, but it got close a couple of times. Because what's happening is Via Miles is obviously kind of unhappy and like stalking Norman to a degree, but Meg Tilly is her daughter, and they're in it together to try to I guess them they're they want to just prove that Norman's crazy or do they want to set him up? I'm not really I guess they want to set him up or they want to drive him over the edge. That to me, that motivation is a little modeled, But I guess it doesn't matter because Via Miles is upset about her sister, and so there's all these murders and you think it's then you think it's Meg Tillian Via Miles doing it, and then oh it's not Norman, it was them.

And then meg Tilly gets shot so if she can't say what really happened, and Via Miles ends up dead. But and then the whole time Norman's life. But mother's on the phone and she's not right. Mother wasn't my real mother? And I have and it guess yes, it is a big red con that mother from Psycho was not his real mother.

It was his aunt. And his real mother is a lady that had problems of her own and just showed back up in town and waited for Norman to get out of prison. And then he hits her with a shovel and kill well, he poisons her and then he hits her with a shovel and she deserved it honestly. Well, and she wasn't honest, I mean she she killed uh that is And you make a good point because I can't remember who kills who in this movie and that's the problem. Yeah, missus school kills Lilah, right, she kills your Miles, Yeah, she kills the does she kill the guy that sneaks into the teenager or is that Lila doing that to set up Norman.

I think that's Lilah. She kills the teenagers, she kills a teenager. Yeah. One thing I don't think both guys, the boy does Lilah killing their get away. I don't think she actually kills anyone.

Okay, So to Christine's point, it is confusing what they're exactly trying to do. Yeah, And I think that that hurts it a little bit because I think there's there's something really like big there right about this, like this this wronged woman's desire to get justice on her own terms, And I don't disagree with that. I think that's really interesting because while I think Norman is a sweet little baby that never did anything wrong in his life, I do understand that he did kill Marion Crane, who was an innocent woman who didn't deserve to die. So I do understand that her sister would still be very upset about this, and I think that that's very interesting and I almost wish it was just that, because well, I do think the retcon stuff is interesting, and introducing a new, like really bad character is interesting, like a true villain.

I just yeah, it gets to be a lot happening. It was especially twisty for me because the Psycho two was on cable TV when I was growing up all the time, and then once Psycho three came out, that was on cable TV all the time. So I watched both of them a lot. Oh yeah, And what I remembered about Psycho two was he gets out and and Meg Tilly is in it. And Psycho three has someone with blonde hair and the same was different hair color, but the same haircut.

Yeah, but almost everything I thought happened in Psycho two, uh apparently is in Psycho three, and vice versus. I thought Psycho three was the one where like they were scamming Norman. I thought Psycho two was the one where Anthony Perkins is smirking while a cop eats ice out of an ice machine with a body in it. That's all. So it was kind of fun because it was both a film I knew intimately and a film I had completely gotten wrong.

So I think there is some there. I think I agree that it's like maybe it's a little a little too twisty for its own good from time to time. But I had so confused myself anyway, waiting for that cop to eat the bloody piece of ice. Uh that I was like, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna sit back and enjoy, uh what's coming um? And then I think I I I convinced myself that the whole time Robert Loggio was the one killing people, which doesn't come out anywhere.

He is in the in Psycho two as h Norman psychiatrists. But uh, I think I just wanted to. I think, really I just wanted a finale where Robert Loggia bust into a scene wearing like a dress and a wig. Yeah, and I'm noan. Instead we get Meg Tilly in a little outfit and it's it's yeah.

This was my second time watching it. I watched UM two, three and four maybe about a year or two ago, for the first time I had. I had seen Psycho a lot growing up, but I had never seen any of the sequels. And when I watched it last year or the year before whenever, what is time for me? It was it was really an exciting discovery because I had heard, I knew some people really liked it, but it was like I knew nothing going in, and to me, it's a movie that is full of really fun surprises the first time around, because you have little mc tilly, you have Dennis Frunds and are in my favorite, the best roll of the Psycho universe.

So the first note I took movie is Dennis Friends is such an ace scumbag. So he is just he's got the open collar of polyester shirt and the long hair, but he's already balding, so you know it's not gonna age well. And he is kind of if it helps Keith. He is sort of the Jeff Fahey roll in part three. Yeah right, but I really like I remember Dinner Friends, but I was remember him doing everything that Jeff he does.

You're like, oh, we're gonna get a sex scene with Jeff's frauds in this movie, and we don't sadly nudity. No. But now, the first time I watched this, it was one of those like jaw dropping a few times, like I suspected one character but not the other character, and then I didn't. As soon as like the end thing starts happening, I'm like, oh, oh, I get it now. But as soon as I sat down to rewatch it, I was like, I remember Meg Tilly isn't and Lila working to get something else happens.

I don't so it was even that that the plot itself hadn't fully stuck in my head. And that might have also been because I watched three and then four fairly close after two, and I can't remember the retcon how that's handled going forward, because in part four is a U which is not good. Part three is fun. I think Part three is like trying to figure out how to make Psycho into a team slasher in a way, whereas Part four is mcgarris and it's trying to do a flashback, but it's it's just not very I did not I don't think four is very good at all, and but four is very much about the relationship between Norman and Norma. And I can't remember if she is still his mother in that or his or his aunt, but I think she's still I think they like right conn it again.

I could be wrong, but um yeah, I can see. I like that. There's the actual twist. I don't know so much of what it does to like Psycho as a legacy. But let me ask both of you, what is your experience and kind of where do you hold Psycho the first movie in your hearts.

Um, I believe that Psycho is one of the best movies ever made. I think it's probably I mean, it's super hack, but it's probably my favorite Hitchcock. I'm not a huge Vertigo person, and that tends to be like the dividing why, like where you kind of fall. I I just I prefer Psycho. I think Psycho is amazing.

I've seen it dozens and dozens and dozens of times. I would like to get a Psycho tattoo at some point. It truly is. It's it's what I base. I mean, Tarantino's whole thing is he just wants to do Psycho.

He wants to misdirect you. He wants you to think a movie is about a thing and then do another thing, like from Dustill Dawn. It's my favorite story structure. It is and again super Hack. Oh, I just want I want everything to be Psycho.

I want everything to start start off one way and actually reveal that it's about something else. Sure, so it's it is. It is the mold, it is the it is the the thing. And it's not my my most unique take, but I love it and and I think that part of the reason why people may or may not enjoy the sequels is because they believe it's treading on greatness. But that's a really limiting way to look at it, because I mean, Anthony Perkins is still involved, So like, yeah, you should look at this the character that we we we get more time with this character, and that's like a gift.

So you should just accept the gift and appreciate these weird of their time kind of products. So I love it all. I think it's all great. It's it might be, in my opinion, the one of the best horror franchises. I love Superio, I like that pool.

Yeah, because the first one is one of the best movies I've ever made, right, Like, so even if the second one is just okay, Like, if you're going on average accumulatively, if you take these, I guess technically five movies if you want to, depending on how you define franchises, and if you here's the thing. If you're doing Psycho one through four as one thing, I think it's still better than the Halloween franchise. Yeah, if you're doing Psycho one to four plus the remake, I think it's probably you know what, it's still probably better than the Halloween is a franchise. If you're doing Psycho one through four plus the remake, plus Bates Motel. I'm talking about the one from recent year.

As I know there was one of the eighties. I never saw it. The new Bates Hotel is a show that I love and will vouch for. Now. I'm saying you are just undernight ron elm Street Territory for that, But I think, yeah, for real, because I think pound for pound when it's being when it's being played with in these different time periods, I think most of the time people understand the characters and the thrust in the universe, so you get these these strange versions of it that you may or may not connect to, but I think they're still really in the spirit of the original story.

And I think this is in the spirit of the original story. I like the analogs that, like, it's not like a shot for shot remake. We already got that, but it's like the different pull in the car, out of the out of the out of the lake. Yeah, like, well you get that, but like the things that you the mirroring is really interesting the way that it's employed, and I appreciate it. I didn't feel like it was just like trying to get us to collap for something we recognize.

I think it was employed really thoughtfully. Keith. What's your relationship with the original Psycho? It's all right, know I I agree it's a fantastic movie. Um.

You know, when when naming your favorite Hitchcock film, you always like, I feel like there's a need to be contrary and be like I think Topaz, But I'm always in terms of Hitchcock. I actually I always lean a little bit more toward his his kind of adventure movie. So north By Northwest is my favorite. The thing is I saw Psycho probably when when I was seven or eight, uh, because one it was the nineteen seventies. Uh and to my my mom liked horror films, so she didn't have any issue with me watching them at an early age.

Um, and you know it's fun. That's not really a movie to watch when you're when you're seven or eight, not because it's scarring, but just because you're not you're gonna pick up you know, you're not gonna really pick up what's what's so? I? And then Psycho two came out when I was ten, and so really it's the Psycho that I remembered and knew more and when I got older, you know, because the fact that you could only watch a movie by the grace of what was on TV. So when I was older and rewatched Psycho, I really loved it.

But everything that happens in it, I think was informed by this much more sympathetic, much more complex portrayal of Norman that you get in Psycho two. So I kind of went at them backwards. That's fascinating. Yeah, But I agree with Christine entirely that this is Psycho two, especially when it came out, really bore the weight of the how dare they sort of you know, mentality of making making a sequel to bona fide classic that ends in such a good way. It's such a frightful ending and such a fantastic ending.

Why carry the story on? But I think the choices that they make of referencing but not replicating the original, or bringing hinting that something like the original is going to happen, and then using that to sort of spin off in a different direction, not just to be you know, smart alec about it, but the direction they go they go off and really makes a lot of sense. And it remember certain things that sometimes I think people don't remember about Hitchcock films, which is like they're they're always kind of funny, and Psycho two definitely has a sense of humor, and they're always a little bit sleazy, or a lot of them are, and Psycho two is a little bit sleazy. So yeah, it's weird right now, like Psycho and Psycho two are so wrapped up in me because I was really coming at them at the same time.

Yeah, that's that's fascinating to think of. Um, you know, it's kind of a bad analogy would be the way probably like the new generation has grown up with Anakin Skywalker of prequels, anakin to then Darth Vader, but that there is that that sense of yeah, if you if Psychoch was your intro to Norman Bates, he is. I mean, he is the hero of this film. He is the victim. And I think in some ways that character could be probably even more of a victim that this movie was made ten years later, twenty years later, just because that sort of like, um, what do you call it, that kind of like a mob mentality of well, this man is crazy and he's a murderer.

So he can never change the sort of way that we treat people who are who are mentally ill or who have done something. That whole question of rehabilitation. M it is. I mean, I have thankfully never to think about whether I could forgive somebody who murdered somebody I love. But that if you're coming at this without Psycho, you are seeing him as a man who paid his dues, who has worked, who's been working on himself, who comes out and he is still trying from the very beginning, trying so hard, and everything's stacked against him so quickly, Um that you're right by the end when he does that turn, You're like, you know what, you knew you, Norman, you knew you.

If this is the path you need, if you need to stuff another mother and have her in your attic, that's I forgive you. It's fine. It's a it's a really complicated any and I do I have completely forgotten about uh that sat twist, So that was basically an all new twist for me. Um. That's so, that's that's I Sometimes I wish I could go back and watch things for the first time, and you truly did, Like Bucky Poff really is coming to you for watching this one movie.

H Now, I've forgotten what I was going to say. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. It'll come to me while we're talking about the legend of Billy Jean. Um oh, just the yeah that I really appreciate how sympathetic this film is to Norman in a decade where where horror films were not and this is and I can get in this.

This is definitely a horror film, not an elevated horror film or anything. They hired a horror people to make it, for a writer, horror directors, and we're in this movie. Um My note is I don't think this movie understands how knives work, but I don't care. But uh well, I mean that goes back to Halloween. How do you pin in someone to a wall?

Anyway? But that it's it's the movie is very sympathetic toward Norman, and our understanding of of mental health had come along even in the eight By the eighties compared to the sixties, have come a long way. It's come a much further way since then. Uh So the movie and the viewer is on Norman's side. Yeah, but it's also you know, this is you know eighty two, so slasher tropes are pretty well established now.

So the idea that you're also kind of rooting for the killer, even if he's a reformed killer, to just shut these people up. You, I mean, you want to see violence, you want to see like you're rooting for Norman to stay normal, but you kind of want him for Norman normal is psycho. Yeah, and when he really breaks, it's like this weird mix of satisfying and heartbreaking. Yeah. I think because we were so on his side and he was so close and he maybe would have succeeded if you know, these people just hadn't been harassing him.

And it reminded me a lot of uh, like true crime podcasts now where they make the podcast sort of about the amateur sleuth and it inspires these thousands of people to develop these theories about someone who may be totally innocent, but you've got mobs and mobs of Internet, you know, amateur detectives coming at you and deciding that they understand your body language, or you did something weird in your past so you're guilty, and they don't really think of the subjects or the suspects and these things as human beings who didn't ask for Internet fame, and it reminded me a bit about that, just like just lead Norman alone. Also, I don't know whose great idea it was to be like, well, Norman, I think you're cured.

Welcome back to this happy little house and this happy little motel. You're on your own the scene of the crime. As your doctor. I'll come visit because I like you, but they're not paying me to. I did.

I did appreciate the swipe, and I can't remember what state psychop so then the swipe sort of like the Reagan era when he was throwing out and he cut on the budget for all of the you know, psychiatric hospital's mental health and to this day they're still Yeah, I mean that I didn't even think about that, but that is absolutely, really really shoot because that was a like we are you're right, we are still dealing with fallout from that decision of that administration and it is horrific. Yeah. I also just I would love to know what it's like to have Robert Loggia as your therapist. Well, you know, I mean, for the results are hard to gauge because it seems like if Norman had come out and there was no Mary.

He might have been fine, although maybe not because this a school was still there, so I don't know. Yeah, it's it's just uh yeah. I also appreciated how like even the characters that that you think in a movie like this would not have any sympathy for Norman, like the sheriff and the guy that runs the diner and stuff, everyone's relatively like they're willing to to go on and help Norman. Either they weren't there they don't remember, or or yeah they're like you know, the cop. It takes a lot, and in fact, in the end the police don't quite get it right, but they get right the fact that it wasn't Norman doing this and even apologize to him.

Yeah, that's true. The something I like is that, and I think it is whether this was in the script or this was so. It's script is by Tom Holland obviously a Fright Night Fame and many other things, um direct by Richard flank Franklin, who had done Patrick. We never hear those phone calls. We don't know if Norman and is actually making this up or hearing something, or if Lilah is prank calling him.

That whole time we don't know, right, am I ever? Am I right about that? That that's correct? Yeah, And I think that's great because we for all we know he might have been making up some of that that some of those calls, some of them we know. I think they do some tracing, but not all of them.

I don't know. Yeah, it's a definitely and that's why I think if it had been maybe a little less going on, you could really sit with those questions and be like, hmmm, what was actually going on? You know? Um Again, I overall though, I'm fine with it, Like I can say, it's it's maybe a little too hard to follow and would have been a little more hard hitting had it been streamlined or or or whatever, like less dense, But like I'm not going to complain about it because overall, yeah, there's all the themes of mental health and restorative justice and um, child abuse and yeah, if if you if you load a gun and cock cock the whatever thing that you do on guns, because I don't know guns just leave it there and eventually might go off.

And and those women treated uh Norman like he was the weapon and they treated him carelessly and then it went off. And I don't care that they died good. I'm glad he killed them. Did either of you watch Bates Motel? I watched some of it, but I honestly I couldn't get into it.

Season one is a little bit of a challenge. Um season one, they're like, there's a really bad choice of a rape subplot that does not need to be there. Uh, once you kind of get past that and that's sort of out of the way. That show, I think is still to me one of the like best just I'm not gonna say it's the greatest show of all time, but there are I think um Via Firmiga gives one of the greatest performances of all time as norma I think Freddy him or something. He does really well that sort of I think is very much on the Anthony Perkins does in this movie.

He makes it so you really are lifted and fall when he makes progress and then flips back that he does that where like he really pulls you into where like you're rooting for him and you wanted to get better, and then when he kind of says something or makes a decision that you realize, oh no, oh no, he's back to seeing things differently. It's so heartbreaking. So I would recommend, especially if you're if this universe is a something you're interested in, I would always recommend somebody watch it and they just have to kind of power through season one. But yeah, that's just my take on Now. Yeah, I think I did a I watched the first episode, and I have a thing about screaming and arguing in movies, not like screaming out of here, but just people like bicker and yelling at each other, and I recall there being a lot of that, and that it's like, you know, Norman's mom is great in small doses as a corpse in his head.

But it was maybe going to push my sort of this, you know, the thing I have just about yelling volume, but it's been I always keep thinking. I was like, maybe I should give this another go, But you know, I'm also it's on the list with maybe I should give American Horror Story another go, because I didn't get very far into that either that I'm only tempted because they did a season in New York recently and I hear Klausnomy is a character in it. But well, life is short. There's only so much time for things. I personally would say maybe the time doesn't need to be sent on American or a story.

You know what, I got this far without it, Whereas I would say Psycho Psycho three is actually kind of a mass, but it's a kind of fun massive memory serves well. Yes, my memory of Psycho three was it was Psycho two. Again. It has more Jeffahy fairly nude, So there's that. Yeah.

I also the other thing going back now that i've you know that basically the first three Psychos are also mixed in my head, having having rewatched this so soon after having watched the the short series documentary series Queer for Fear uh and sort of watching it knowing what I didn't know back the first time around, that Anthony Perkins was a closeted or semi closeted gay man. And that's so much of dealing with with that when you're in the public. You know, I informed so much of what he does with Norman, and I think he's he's really good to great as Norman in in the original Psycho. But because he has so much I think that the script spend so much more time with him in Psycho to what Anthony Perkins does is just so good it's like he's sympaetic, but there's always this edge where where his tone of voice, or his word choice or the expression on his face is just not quite right.

The whole scene where he's making a sandwich and a glass of milk for Meg Tilly is Yeah, he's technically so innocent, but it's so uncomfortable. There is something so awkward about the way he is just putting peanut butter on bread. Yeah. And I think Tony Perkins just having to to live a double life in his real life so long really gives him, uh, you the ability to bring so much more depth, just in the way that he'll you know, smile awkwardly when he shouldn't, or has a facial tick when you think all you know, everything is going great. Um, it's it's an excellent point.

I'm glad you brought that up. Um, because the kind of like sexuality of Norman, or or lack thereof during the handyman scenes, Norman's a little bit ripped, Okay, so he is not. This is not up for discussion. An Perkins is one of the hottest men that have ever lived. Also, I believe he maybe was more bisexual than gay.

You can say, queer, I just bisexual representation Luke, Yeah, definitely. Um So he's so hot and so weird and he is just absolutely on display in the best possible way in this movie. Amazing his skin in this movie. I'm like he was in the mental hospital for twenty two years. I didn't have to figure out do the math figure him Anthony Perkins actually was.

But he looked great. They must have hydrated in that institution. Yeah, he's out of the sun. He's not getting those usually seventies and eighties, so like he was spared that right, but he was like tan, Like he just he looked really really good. M So, what do we think the kind of sexuality of Norman is?

Like did you get a connection with Mary or not? Like was did it feel like there was that there was a love interest or not? Like just in general, I think it's interesting that there is no real like, uh, the movie doesn't seem to make a point on it, Like they always seem very platonic immediately, and part of that might be him even as Norman treating this woman as I don't want to scare you because you know that I did gill women before, but you know I'm here you can be in my house. It's fine. I'm really not not a sexual threat to you.

UM. I'm wondering, do you think that's intentional as Norman, intentional as Anthony Perkins, intentional as Psycho in general? I don't know what you guys think. I think it's I don't think it's intentional on Norman or either or even Anthony Perkins. But I do think it's intentional that that psycho to the movie is leading you on.

Uh, it's structuring these things which if you strip aways you know everything else it's nothing happens, nothing was ever going to happen. They really were. It's just like, I mean, you know, she's a con artist but desperate in her own way. But it's a guy who's desperate for some sense of stability, who's terrified of being alone in this murder house that the state dumped him back into. Um.

And so I think the film really manipulates in a good way our reaction to what's going on between the two of them. And it also helps that I agree. Anthony Perkins, Uh, was a very handsome man when he was young. He's perhaps in his way, even more handsome as he hits middle age. And puts on some years.

And and Meg Tilly is absolutely gorgeous falsou and has this sort of of just her acting style is just sort of natural and disarming, which is used I think the great effect when you when you realize what she's actually up to. Yeah, a shout out to both at Tilly's sisters. And I think it's also interesting from what I heard that Anthony Perkins and Meg Tilly just hated working with each other. Yeah, the trivia I saw was that basically she didn't know Psycho, so she didn't realize like what she was kind of walking into. And like from the at least from like the different quarters of the Internet, it was like she didn't realize that Anthony Perkins was more more than just her co star, that he was kind of an icon in this way, and he didn't appreciate not being appreciated.

So it seems like he was kind of addicted to her. Um. But Yeah, and it's interesting because I mean, you know, the trajectory of Anthony perkins career is right, it was I mean, I don't want to say it was over after Psycho, but he struggled after Psycho and he spent decades in France or maybe not decades. We spent a long time in France, where I learned he recorded a couple of albums which are interesting, not bad. But you don't really need to rush out.

I mean, we all need that phase of our lives where we go to France and become a recording artist. So if you, I mean, so if you're someone, if you're young and you grew up the way Meg till he did where it said they weren't allowed to watch TV, the kind of counsel. Uh, there's no reason you would know Psycho, and there's no reason you would know that Anthony Perkins had done this iconic role and she's kind of on the rise. Then you know, up In had the big chill I think was right before this. So I understand, And I never wish anyone a shitty time making a movie or to come away from it feeling like or you know, having actually been abused on set, like mentally, But I think there is something in sort of the maybe the antagonistic relationship that two of them had off screen that further informs just the really weird, off putting in the best way vibe that exists between the two characters.

Yeah, there's a chemistry that isn't like anything else between them. Christine, where do you fall on the kind of where does Norman? I guess the Norman and Marry romance or not romance or Whatnotum, I don't know that. It's like I don't know if Norman is like classically sexual, like just period. I mean, because that was how it was with Marion and the first one, Like there was almost this like covetous uh nature to his fascination like did he want her or did he want to be her?

Did he what? Did he admire her freedom and her youth or did the possibility she was beautiful like a birdar? Did he just want to keep her? And I think a lot of that can just be applied to mctilley in this movie. And I think there's a bit of codependence to to to their relationship.

His kind of need to care and be cared for by a feminine aspect I think is very is very present. Um. But yeah, I think it was physical. I don't know that that means it was romantic, but it was it was physical. They touched, they were they were physically close, and I think that that indicates a level of intimacy.

So I think they had a relationship, but I don't know that it was like like sexual or like like passionate in that way, but it was definitely there, and I and it was sad, you know that it couldn't be real or or or helpful or cathartic because I think in a different situation where she wasn't in league with her mother, it could have been like it could have been like a not necessarily a healthy relationship, but like a healthy ish relationship for the two of them, beneficial, like you know, for both of them mentally. Yeah, And I mean he has resources, she needs a place to stay. Like if it had just started and ended with with the story that she presented, I think that it would have been a really interesting relationship.

But kind of knowing that she was putting herself in his presence for a different reason kind of changes where she was coming from. Yea, he also is a man who goes into a mental institute at a pretty young age. I don't know how old Norman was in sight, Yeah, twenty two years just hanging out once again, Robert Loggia. So's I mean, like this is, you know, under the circumstances, maybe the best he can do. And there's one like moment that I thought was really great when he introduces Meg Tilly's character to Robert Loggia, and like she comes down from the house and Norman just sort of wants to usher her forward to introduce her, uh, but he like grips her arm in this really weird like like I'll be like too strong.

He doesn't know how to touch a woman or between threatening and just his idea what he what he's doing. And he goes back to what you said about the sandwich that there's something about his his physicality, the way he stands up straight, the way he touches things is just different from a typical man that we would think of in that situation. Yeah. Yeah, Can I mention my other favorite character, aside from Dennis France in this movie The Cough, the hotel concierge who ends up being really important because he comes back at the very end of the movie to also sort of um help with Norman's story because he's heard the conversation, so he knows that these women were trying to fuck with Norman. Because I just love that scene where like it's in the police station and he's just looking around and you're like, what's going on with this guy?

Like something's gonna do and he's just like can I get a call? Everybody has coffee but me, I don't know why that scene made me so happy. But again, like you're saying, it's just this random like touch of humor and decisions in a scene that didn't need that that really helps this movie along time. Yeah. I think there's a lot of and I mean this is you know, Richard Franklin as director, Tom Holland as writer, the cast, Like there's a lot of those throwaway details.

Yeah that I think really like this is a film that could have felt really artificial or or whatever, but I think it gives it a really sort of grounded, realistic world, you know, relatively speaking. Uh. And it's yeah, all these weird little bits and pieces. Yeah, it's that this town would would make sense for the town being the town that like produced Norman, that this is the towns back to you, like, yeah, these things are just a little off here, just a little you know. Um, So do we all agree best case scenario for a psychosequel is psycho too?

Oh? Yeah, yeah, I think, especially having read a bit about what Robert Block's idea for Psycho too well, he wrote, and he wrote it right, that there is a novel apparently. I looked. I was trying to see if I could find it. It's like ninety bucks in paperback on Amazon, because yeah, I think, yeah, I was a little surprised there's no ebook version or anything, because you know, Robert Block's a big deal and and like he's had a lot of stuff republished through Hardcase Crime and through all these other publishers that go back and and or finding all these old Yeah.

Maybe, but yeah, I had read that some completely unrelated third person whose name I can't recall, had decided that he had the rights to write a sequel to Psycho as long as he didn't call it Psycho. And so then Robert Bloch was like, nah my guy, no, and wrote his sequel to Psycho, which is was also like half a sequel to Psycho and half just a cranky critique of slasher films at the time, and they haven't read reading. It's like, I mean, there was again, and I like you him. I tried to find it. I couldn't the summary, as there seems to be a lot of rape in block Psycho too going on.

Uh, and then yeah, and then that comes out, and the studio reacts to Robert Block's Psycho Too the same way Robert Block reacted to this other guy's Further Adventures of Norman Bates. But a little bit of what was in the book Psycho Too makes it into the movie. It was the same sort of premise. Obviously, there's you can't have much of a Psycho two without giving release. But yeah, it's Uh.

I would love to get a copy and read it because the people who have read it said it's bonkers. But Robert Block's a good writer, so it's still a pretty a pretty thrilling story, even if it's a bit wacky. Ye. Well, I feel like in another five years will get some form of Psycho revisit. So maybe that's going to be the time Psycho babies babies period.

Now now it's all cute, right, all right? Well? Uh, do we have more anymore to say about Psycho two? Now? If you haven't given it a chance, because you think, rightfully, Psycho is a masterpiece and what can they possibly do with it, I'd say give it a chance.

You might be surprised, Christine, how about you? Yeah, basically, just that it's it's very good good. I think for what it is in the time period, it's reflective of the time period in a really interesting way. Um, and yeah, there's no such thing as sacred cows. It's all up for grabs.

So don't don't don't stop engaging with media because you think other media is precious, because that seems weird. And also, I mean, think of everything if if you don't like to think of everything is fan fiction, right, something was out there and it inspired people and they said, hey, let's make another one. And it doesn't undo anything that happened in Psycho. If you are adamant that Norman Norman Bates was Norman Bates's mother in your world, she still can be. But it true.

Yeah, so yeah, give it a go. It's I really like it. I just think it's twisty and fun and also entertaining, like this is. It's fairly long, it's about an hour fifty. It to me is entertaining the whole way through.

I'm never bored. I'm always surprised. So I firm endorsement from all three of us to varying levels. I guess, yeah, definitely. All right, so let us all take a break.

We are going to go take off our rather scratchy gray bun wigs and that you know, kind of house dress that just doesn't do much for our figures. We're gonna get a haircut, preferably something short, to maybe go blond, and come back and talk about the legend of Billy Jean, one of America's best known actors, who created his first Broadway role in Look Homeward Angel and starred in such Broadway shows as Star Spangled Girl, Equis and Romantic Comedy. But he only appeared once in a musical, and that was in nineteen fifty nine in Frank Lesser's Green Willow. And you know what, he sang a song and became a hit from Green Willow. Anthony Perkins never never, never Never were born to wander song.

My nah, we've returned to talk about the legend of Billy Jean. Nineteen eighty five. I believe I said this on Facebook. I confess I had never seen this smooth. I didn't know that.

Nope. Never. Wow. I Now, how did you both like? You watch this a lot growing up kind of thing?

No, I thought you were the one who had a nostalgia thing with it because I hadn't seen it. I didn't see it until maybe, like I don't know, ten years ago, like I saw it the first time as an adult, probably because there was a bit of time where it was making the rounds yea yea yeah, like in the cult. I think Gentleman's Guide had covered it. Like I think it was just conversations abounding about this movie that I even that. I was like, I should try to look that up.

I've never seen it, and I just never got around to it. It was it was, it was Keith, and it was never It was never something that was around when I was younger Sam, which was which is strange. Yeah, it's interesting considering our age and the year this came out and what it's about that we were never really around it. But Keith, you you were you when you were younger. It was this like another cable fixture.

So yeah, it was another cable thing. I didn't see it as much as I did other films. I mean, it was not Beast Master nothing, nothing was as ubiquitous. Yes, but you know so I saw it a few times in the eighties and remembered enjoying it quite a lot. It would always come on like it was either on in the afternoon because it's it's despite some skimpy costumes from time to time, it's relatively innocent.

H yeah. Um. But it would also come on like sort of really really late at night, like even after like after HBO and sin Max had gotten their dirty movies out of their system for the night. The watch one dirty movie and you're like, oh, what's coming on next? What's coming on next?

And then it's this one. You're like, oh, but I I hadn't. Honestly, I hadn't seen it probably since sometime in the eighties. I don't think I've rewatched it in college. Uh so really it was what I remembered about it was Pat Benatar's Invincible.

Sure. I mean the soundtrack of this movie is amazing. Yeah. Uh, Helen Slater's haircut yep iconic and body glove m yeah okay, and and that and that young kids were wronged by horrible adults, yes, and which is actually only half correct it. Well, but I think that is why watching it, because I got I had never seen it before, and I did a little I didn't really do much research, but I just did like a couple of like like quick reading reviews of when this movie came out, and it's one of those movies that you're like, this is a movie that was should not have been screened for critics because the critics for this movie were teenagers.

This was a movie made four about and like with the soul of teens and kids and is it great to adults? No? Is it narratively complex? Does it like skip details? And so I was like, yeah, yeah, sure, but like it feels like this um like taps into the soul of a young person in a way that's very poetic.

I guess, yeah, it's very much even even as an adult, I would say with with nostalgic ties to it, but not not the same like, you know, strength of ties that I have for some other films now that I'm an old man. Uh, It's one I don't think so much. I would review in terms of this is the plot, this is the acting, right, It's one I review in terms of, like, even at my age, after I watch it, I just like I want to go like run down the street in the air yep. And you know, yeah, there's something very like physically like you know, kind of feel like the hair on your your arms standing up a little bit in some of these. I'm part of that to the music, which is goes a long way in this movie.

Yeah and aspiring. Yeah, we can get into this a bit more, but it's really it's a it's a film, and a lot of movies in the eighties did this. Uh that operates really well just on the level of pure emotion. Yeah, as as the kids say today, it's a vibe. It is definitely a So why don't again for those who have not seen it, Um, we'll spoil, but there's not really much of a spoil.

Christine, you are our expert resident plot giver. Tell us what happens in the Legend of Billy Jean. Thank you, thank you. Um. So, Legend of Billy Jean takes place in Corpus Christie Corpus Christi, Texas, which I believe is important to the framing of the story.

Um, Helen Slater and Christian Slater are siblings. Helen Slater is Billy, the titular Billy Jean. They're siblings. They are poor, they live in a trailer park. Um and uh they're just doing their thing, living their life and um some assholes uh Sea Yeah, yeah, really, Uh, Billy Jean and steal Christian Slater's, uh motorbike I guess motorcycle scooter you would call that scooter.

Yeah, they steal steal a scooter, and he's like super pissed off about it, which I get because he's poor and he doesn't have a lot of stuff, and you know, items mean a lot when you don't have a lot of them. So he decides to go and get his scooter back, and he gets the shit kicked out of him and the scooter is ruined. So, since Billy Jean is the light of justice in our dark world, she decides to go to the boy's father because she is a little adult, and she says, this is the estimate to get it fixed. I would like you to give me the six hundred dollars to fix the scooter because your stupid son broke it, ruined it. It's his fault.

He's the inciting incident. So the father tries to rape her and it turns into this whole fantastic thing where there's guns and shooting and a lot of a lot of accidents, but honestly a lot of stuff brought on themselves. This terrible man, ye, So he ends up getting shot by Christian Slater, you know, by accident. He lies and says the gun isn't loaded. So what are you going to do if someone tells you's not loaded.

I'm just gonna start pressing the trigger, right, I mean, I don't think he shot. I think it like went off in his hand kind of thing, right for real, he was he just had it in his hand and it did go off, and and the dude got struck in the shoulder. And um. From there, Billy Jean and her brother go on the run with a couple of her friends, one of them being Early Smith um icon icon Um. They go on the run, and um what happens after that is like a mini revolution.

It's uh, kids really get behind her strife and and not being listened to. It's it's it's to me. There's multiple levels of like there is just the we are the youth and you are not hearing us, and then also like we are young women and you do not see us kind of thing. So there's a couple levels to that. But it becomes like a revolution and there's this uh, this joan of arc allegory kind of going on, which I think works really well, even though it's not in the forefront for most of it, and uh, fair is fair, justice to start, fair's fair, fair is fair?

Yeah, I mean, they become celebrities. There's a lot about whether they are in control of their celebrity, if you will, since the person benefiting most from it is the asshole who got shot, who is now selling merchandise of Billy Jean and doing quite well for himself. Which all of it so good, and I wish this, um, this movie was more popular again because why can't I buy all of those shirts? So long the money was going to Billy Jean and not to the asshole? Well obviously, right, but those those truckers have just ripe for the for the recreation, and I guess there's just not a huge market.

It's kind of crazy that there hasn't, even though this movie again, it's popular, I think in the hearts of certain people. But this is just so rife for a remake because now you have the Internet. Now you have like I mean, and as I say this, there are probably movies that are telling the same story that I'm not thinking of, um because they don't have to be named after beligion, they don't have to be based off that because it's The idea itself is so natural of like, all right, somebody does something, they're on the run and through like in this movie, it's just a couple of TV ads or TV news reports, but it would be like social media would spread this like like crazy, you know, I mean, come on, kids, get on it.

Oh, I have I have a lot of really good ideas for remake recal. I think that there's this if this happened in Corpus Christi in eighty five, in this world, someone could find out about that and then do it for their own injustice, and it would just be you could easily transplant this into modern times and it would spread even faster, so you'd have like a like a potentially like a global ben Her What does it knows? I don't know why I wanted to be like a global Spartacus kind of thing. I think it's totally redoable. You're completely right, Emily.

I think I think it's funny that you've even brought that up, because it really struck me when I was watching that, I was like, we could redo this now and do it's a really interesting thing. Totally. Yeah, it's funny. I had the same thought, like I was taken aback very pleasantly by how relevant it still is. And yeah, it's it's you know, she circulates a VHS tape rather than uh, you know video or an Instagram reel.

But it's it's you know, so spiritually it's the same thing, and it sort of has the same effect of sort of like how you thinking about how there's all these podcasts that will accuse people of crimes that are not guilty of the mins in this mob. After the flip side of that is things like social media serving the Arab spring and right and bringing sort of justice. All of these these horrifying videos of abuse at the hands of police or at the hands are just some random crazy person whose decides that they don't like something that someone is doing. And yeah, it's the technology is different, but the sentiment and the spirit of it was still the same. You would have kids doing it or young people, I'm just gonna say young people where they would know everything about this, and every kid of that generation would and their parents would be like, what are you talking about?

What that There's almost something like the divide is almost bigger in that sense, even though parents have the same access to things, It's still like there are so many universes now where this content exists between communities that we don't even know as a thing. Yeah, it's it's powerful in its own way. Yeah. I love how one step behind all the adults are. Yeah, and it's how I mean.

I so I work with college kids, I work out of college, therefore college kids, and I have student employees, and uh yeah, it's always I'm like, huh, I had no idea, what hap you write that out for me? Yeah, And it's in this movie in particular, it's always like my my takeaway lesson from this above all others. And there I think there's there's a lot of messages in this movie that are that are really good. Is older generation, which is now me, h, don't be shitty to the young people. Yeah, because they are fucking powerful.

Yeah, because like they're right about a lot of things. Uh, and they have a right to be clumsy about it about how they fight for these things because they're young. So like cut them some slack and realize like they may have a point and appreciate the passion. I think that's something that really bothers me about when I hear people our age and older um complain about gen z and millennials, but particular gen z of this how angry they get when um about issue about quote unquote issues that like aren't issues, but I mean no, no, they are. First of all, they are issues.

Second of all, their issues to this, to this generation. And the fact that these people are so passionate about it and often incredibly intelligent about it. What does it say about you that you just don't understand it, that that that's on you, not on them for for being so different. And I don't know, it's like to me, like, it's very The next generation is very exciting. I have a lot of faith in that they are going to make the world better than we did.

Um. But I think that is something this movie really does kind of nail, Like it gets that these are just their kids. Um, they are just kids. I love that Billy Jean is not amazing she I mean, she is brave, she is smart, she is responsible. But the scene where like the little boys like or the little kids find her and they're like, oh, we have a friend who's being abused by his dad, come save him.

And the way Helen Slater plays that scene where she's like, oh, yeah, look at all these kids. They love me this is great. And then she walks into the house and she is suddenly sixteen years old and she's walking in and you see it on her face of like, what the fuck am I doing? I don't know what I'm doing here? It is but yet of course she does make a difference, and it's by doing very little, but just because she has become a symbol, it's more powerful than her.

It's I don't know, it's it's exciting. Like I was, this movie made me feel good. Yeah, yeah, I like like the kids in it make bad decisions from time to time, but they're very much the bad decisions you can imagine, yeah, fifteen year old or is seventeen year or eighty year old making and the trajectory that they take the people on is very believable that the scene you just mentioned, Emily reminded me when I was watching it. So, when I was a scrappy young punk rocker, Uh, there were all of these what I thought of as sort of the older generation of punk rockers that we look up to, uh, And so you trusted their opinion on things on politics, on social issues, on all of this stuff. And then when I got older, I'm like, I realized, like I was sixteen, that person I thought of as like this adult guiding like was like nineteen, like Polly Styrene when she was was she was like fifteen years old when she started a band.

Uh, but yeah, I thought I thought it was much like you. I felt very good at the end of this movie. Um, yeah, Christine, where do you stand on the youth of America all other places? Well, this is technically the youth of the past. So I mean I I did.

I think. I think the youth of the past really really had some good ideas. Um No, I think obviously that, Um it's a great movie. It it feels like it knew who who it was for. Yeah, if that if that makes sense, Like and I and you know what movie I kept thinking about during it.

And it's ironic, I guess is night of the comment. It really feels like they were made for the same person, with that real like lived in This is what I like. I wasn't a teen teen girl in in the eighties obviously because I wasn't old enough. But um, there's just something authentic about it that I feel like some modern stuff maybe doesn't get. Yeah, director, when he made this, he was he wasn't a spring chicken.

But the director of the whose name I can't pull for night of a comment is the same thing. But he there's the interviews I've read where he talked a lot with his daughter. Yeah, I believe about it. And and also, you know, when you have young people on set, you should really engage them and see how your dialogue is coming out of their mouths and how they feel with what you're trying to get them to do, because I think that's where you get a lot of authenticity. So it wouldn't surprise me if if someone dug out an article and said, yeah, the on set Helen Slater just suggested to change this to this or something, I wouldn't I would not disbelieve that, because like, there is a real authenticity and a real there's there's something innocent but yet also like really kind of grimy about it.

And and I have to assume it's representative of those times, because it's representative of our times too, Like the world is harsh and awful, but these are also still just kids, So there is this level of like you're constantly eating candy, she's she is truly the child of the situation. Even though they're all they have to only be like a couple of years apart um. But she encapsulates that like if she would be me even today, that would be me. I'd be Dennis Fronds and Psycho two and you'red Lee Smith and blood Billy Jean look, and there's nothing wrong with that really like that Actually, Hurry eating Candy reminded me of the scene and Attack the Block where where doctor who uh sees Finn's bedroom.

Yea, and different characters but uh and she's like, do you have a little brother and he's like, no, that's my bedroom, right this kid's fifteen. Yeah's because you forget it. And then also there's a little bit about how how I'll say white Americans even though they're British, but how white people see young black people as much older than they are. But I thought with Billy Jean, it's it's maybe not a completely realistic version of what the world is, but it's very much an authentic version of how when you're that age. And I was not a teenage girl in the eighties, but I was a teenager in the eighties.

But it's very much a correct representation of how you see the world, which is like everything matters, Everything is an opera. Christie, when you said that the loss of the of the scooter is it means so much to him, I had the same thought that it's like when you don't have a lot, Yeah, losing a little means a lot. And when you're a teenager, things that you look back on as adults and laugh at how trivial they were, but they're not when you're When you're a teenager, they mean a lot. And if they mean a lot to you, then they mean a lot. And I think there's there's this movie does that really well, and there's such an earnestness and lack of concern about being seen as sort of corny or hamp fisted or anything, which also is something like when you're a teenager, it's you know, even an introverted teenagers, a lot of introverted teenager, you still like your heart is still very much on your sleeve, and you react to things very very largely.

I think this movie does captures that really well, and there's such an element of class at play, and I think the movie establishes it really well without having I mean, it is very clear what the movie is saying that these are kids who are growing up in a trailer park and they know exactly what that means to other people. When Billy Jean goes to it's Peter kyote as the as the kind of like the good guy who's who's not and but and when you're introduced to him, and when she says to him like here's where I live, like you know exactly, that's all she has to say for him to kind of say like, well, okay, so you're still you know, I'll still do this. But there is an immediate clarity to this relationship that just tells you these are four know exactly how the rest of town and how adults see them.

And it's also something then that like Billy Jean has that strong moral code of like when we steal things, we're giving them IOUs, we're gonna pay this back. Where all we care about is a scooter because that was taken from us, and I just I like, I appreciate kind of the simplicity of that, and you never really have a concern. I feel like in other movies there would be like the one hot headed character that's you know, and like you think that they're going that way with Christians later also because it's Christians later in nineteen eighty five, so you're ready for him to just shoot up the school at any moment, but that it's not like, no, no, they're all fair like, they're all good kids who are a little young, who are in over their heads, but they're they're gonna be like, they're gonna be okay, They're not doing anything stupid.

They're just at this point there's no going back, and you agree with them, like no, no, don't. Don't you turn that in until you get that check. Yeah. Yeah, there's a great scene where they they they break into a rich person's house. Yes, And we didn't even talk about yeah, and and it's it's so I grew up.

I haven't been to Corpus Christie, but I feel like it's very similar to where I grew up, which is a very it's either a very big small town a very small big town. Okay, I grew up in like like a town of four hundred, but right next to it is another town of four hundred, another town of four hundred, and you know, until all you basically become one big town. It was the same thing. It's like you knew who came from trailer parks. You knew who came from.

Yeah, you know who lived had a house down on the river where the rich people live. So when they break into this house and it is really like stepping into another world for them, like to see like and it's not even I mean it's not like a billionaire's mansion. It's small town rich. But it has a pool, actually has a slide to the pool, which is favored one of my favorite lines when when Jurdley Smith is like, when you're this rich, you eat food that doesn't taste like what it is. That's a paraphrase.

Uh, and then yeah, and shout out to this film to uh introduce a shut in movie weirdo. Yes, who is a good guy, bad actor. I mean within the movie he's a bad actor, but but yeah, a nice presence. And if I had seen this as a kid, I would have had such a crush on him. Yeah.

Keith Gordon is the ultimate eighties heartthrob for me. Um. I had to add that on at the end because I know that that's not tod for other people. Um. And I will say that I was on a podcast with him and didn't realize it until about eight months later.

Oh my gosh. So I'm glad though, because I probably wouldn't have been a person that could speak words for him. For Hube, the the shitty rich kid that smashes up the scooter is, how is Hube not Bill Paxton? Yeah? And then my note for Keith was his character was Louie.

I think, how is Louie not John Cusack? Uh? They both gave me those vibes. Yeah, so so uh Keith Gordon is what I love is there's a how do I say this in a way? So um Billy Jean has kind of presented like the ultimate sex symbol, which is really interesting because of her youth and also the fact that she's on the slender side.

And then when she cuts her hair, that's obviously like rebuking the classics feminine. Um. So, I think it's really fun that the bull way that she ends up gravitating towards is a weirdo. He's like, he's weird and kind of awkward and nerdy and like really into nerdy stuff. And I just thought that was such a wholesome, really great choice that she rebukes classic masculinity as well.

Yeah, and I thought that that was so beautiful And also while I'm talking about it. Dean Stockwell is Keith Gordon's dad, Yes, And I said, huh, that's great casting because they both have an undeniable sexual charisma. It is inherited, I've heard, and I love Dean Stockwell. It's a little bit like Anthony Perkins, Like Dean Stockwell plays it straight in this movie. Yeah, but he comes with all of the baggage of bean Dean Stockwell, so like I'm maybe seeing a weirdness in him that isn't there, but it's still there.

So it's also totally believable that this rich you know, was he district attorney or something like it, has like kind of a weird streak in him that then, uh, you know, makes it believable that he'd have, you know, a son who who's reaction to a bunch of people breaking into his house is to give him stage an entire like Wolfman scene that does take work, and even their relationship gets a little time, which is interesting that like Dean Stockwell kind of says like, yeah, like I don't really understand my son, and Louis says the same, like, well, my dad, he's not going to pay the ransom or like he will like I know he's I know you're not going to hurt me. My dad doesn't know that, and my dad might not care, but maybe he'll care enough because it's gonna be on camera.

Like but that they and then Dean Stockwell kind of proves himself not to be a hero, but like a responsible man at the end, especially compared to Piet, who is still like I'm not giving this bitch money, where Sean stock was like I'll write, I'll write the check, like like this is what's right here. That there's different as much as like this could have been done like Peanut style, where the adults are all kind of ridiculous caricatures. That Dean Stockwell's character isn't a villain, he's just an adults who is so clearly on a different page than not just the teenagers of this movie, but his own son. And there's something, there's a complexity in relationship there that you don't have to have in a movie like this that I appreciate.

Yeah, they spend some time on the adults are clearly they're antagonists without always being villains. Again, except for Piet, who is just just the worst. Yeah, he's just the worst. It was given me real, like Cameron Mitchell. Yeah, but like for a film like this, you don't have to develop any of the adults.

No, you let them be sort of cartoon characters. But it spends time with with Peter Coyote's police officer and yeah, and with Dean Stockwell, and it's they're never it's like they're struggling to understand and they're struggling to be on the side of the kids. Peter Coyote a little bit more than Dean Stockhol, but they never but they're still they just they're also just a little too set in their ways and thinking we're the adults, We're right, this is how it should be. We get it. Kids, you're mad, but you really need to do things the way we say, and they can never quite break from that.

But yeah, I thought, I thought with those two characters in particular, and there's even from time to time, you know, like the random when they're doing sort of the man and Woman on the Street interviews where you there are are a fair number of people in their twenties and thirties. Even it looks like, although it's the eighties, people who were in there they could have been they could have been sixteen. Yeah, except for Anthony Perkins. Yeah, say, and we know how that right, Yeah? And I did love this where they have like the the DJ who is initially against Billy Jean and who but then sort of becomes you know, like like for the Warriors, right, the sort of radio that that rallies people sort of builds around it, but everybody starts listening to and play and paying attention to, or the like the TV reporter that interviews the young girl on the in the ball after uh one of several very satisfying knees to the balls so many uh, and she's she's just like, I'm sick of being a young woman and no one ever listens to us, no one believes this.

Tired of these you know, some bags always put us down. And then guys like, oh, well there's the woman's point of view. Yep. And I think that's the other, like the other really powerful uh aspect of this film again at a time when when uh sort of you know, movies about women's empowerment, or especially young women's empowerment were um, I don't want to say on the decline, I don't have enough of a of a full sort of picture of the time to say. But I mean it's definitely very much on the side of young women, uh not you know, standing here, you know, not not putting up with being victims or manipulated by not just the the scumbags of the world like Piet who I'm sure was friends with Dennis Frands.

Oh, they definitely drank like Natty Ice together. Yeah. Oh, but even even the well meaning but sort of patronizing older men. Yeah, like Peter Coyote. Yeah yeah, this apparently did was kind of was a box office bomb and probably yeah unfortunately, I mean critics hated it.

Of course they did. They didn't get it, and I think, man, I don't know enough about the history. There's a really good podcast I recommend called This Ends It prom that focuses and yeah, Christine you, I'm sure you're a fan. It's B. J.

Colangelo, and they focus on like movies that are were made for or about teenage girls, and there is like a certain point in time. I forget what it is like, but there's like a movie or two you can point two of like when things flipped, when studios decided, oh we have to stop making movies about girls, and like this might have been one of those movies that sort of tipped it that way of like, oh it was this was supposed to be like an ant the movie. Girls didn't like it. Boys aren't gonna go see a movie about a girl, so we'll stop doing that. But it is a shame because it feels like, I don't know, the kind of movie like you would have wanted to be a hit, because I would have wanted rip offs like this could have been a fun like a little subgenre to have.

And I'm sure there's a few more that we could pull our brains out and find, but not nearly enough. Yeah, no, I mean it really does remind me of Night of the Comet in that way. Definitely. Yeah. I mean I'm glad I saw it.

I wonder if I had seen it younger, where I would fall. I don't know. There's like certain ages I think are right to watch this movie, and I think like probably being like under thirteen, But then after that it might have not. It felt like a little corny to me, and then in my twenties I might not have been charmed by it. I don't know.

So I feel like it like also like I watched it like right when I got older, like I watched it like right around my birthday, so I was already feeling old, and it made me feel like, Okay, this is a movie that doesn't make me feel old because it's you know, the teenagers are from the eighties. There's that whole aspect. But also it feels like a movie about like the power of youth and also how how idiotic it is to be an adult and to not respect teenagers and the youth. And I really appreciate facts. Yeah, I don't know that age is a real deterrent here, because I think for most of us, hopefully we can still kind of remember what those feelings felt like, you know, not feeling her, not feeling autonomous as as a as a youth, and I think this really successfully taps into all of that, and for me, at least, I could get back to those feelings pretty quick.

And because I didn't like I didn't see it for the first time until I was probably late twenties, early thirties, and like it. I still got like kind of teared up. There's parts of this that are really affecting and like really timeless. Like Helen Slater is younger, but I mean she is still like a fully formed woman, and I know what being treated the way she got treated like feels like and it sucks. And I think that that's one of the strengths of it being able to play to a younger audience but also not feeling alienating when you watch it as an adult.

It's I think it's a It strikes a really great balance. Yeah, I agree. Um, now do we how do we all think we would look with the Billy Jean haircuts? Oh awful? Right?

I the haircut on you or on Billy Jean, on anyone, anyone say that, But until I see you doing it, I'm not not going down that route. Yeah, I've had I've tried different haircuts throughout my life. During once I moved away, went to college, you know, and I could cut my hair. However I wanted that mom on me. There were some decisions, you know, But in the end it's I basically had the same haircut since I first decided not to have the seventies bowl cuts anymore.

It's the worst decision you've ever made. It was so great, Like sort of the flip side of how Piet kind of markets his the anti us against him, which is like something that people do still today. Uh, when you realize someone hates you, you're like, well, I'm gonna make anti me merchandise and get off of these people. Uh. But the flip side of that is is like all of the people who rush out to get like the Billie Jean haircuts, and they set up at like like at the malls and the state fairs and these rallies and things.

They have whole stations where all these people are coming and just getting her haircut. Uh. And my two my favorite hero moment moments for all of this, and for as good as Helen Slater is carrying this movie on her shoulders, it's still it's kind of an ensemble cat yea. And the scene uh where your Lye Smith gets out of the cop car and everyone knows that she's you know, one of the butter all scing for her, and so like she raises the double fist in the air yep. And I was like, you go, Lisa Simpsons, right, And I really wish your Lee Smith I like again kind of like Anthony Perkins, like she was such a great young actor.

Yeah, and just and then just kind of got derailed by you know, having Lisa Simpson's voice. I don't even know if it's fully that or how much of that is that Urley Smith is just like her. I mean, she has a really particular, unique physical appearance that is not something most directors ever cast for. I saw she did a one woman show about at this point twenty years ago that I saw, and it was her talking basically about like her frustrations with fame and how like she grew up wanting to be and she I wish I could remember because at the time I hadn't seen Billy Jeans, so but I know she talked a lot about the beginning of her career and constantly being in movies with like the Helen s Later type and being so mad that she wasn't that, and that for her it was such a frustration.

But that like and like she's and she's had a complicated relationship with Lisa Simpson for that reason of like, yeah, I'm successful, I'm a millionaire probably by this point, but also I never got to wear the pretty dress. Yeah, yeah, you know, I'm thank you. I'm going to retract my Lisa Simpson, Yeah, don't she And that she reminds me a lot of uh, Martha Plimpton, who around this same time, ye was in movies. I was like the legend of Natty Gan. Uh, these sort of girls adventure movies.

Martha, No, who's Natigan but Martha? But she did romance? But she does she does romance? Uh River Phoenix right in Mosquito Coast, maybe does she? But I also but I also felt like another and she's Goony's right, she's gooney.

She's parenthood. Yeah, like another another great young actress who didn't, you know, look like an eighties icon, who I think her career suffered until she reached a certain age and then kind of fell on more character roles and you know, and directors who grew up like loving her. We're finally like, I'm going to make a role for Martha Plimpton. So yeah, your your time is still out there, ardly, we'll get it. Yeah, but no, she's great, like and yeah, like her eating my favorite Like these are actually just kids scenes.

Yeah, her like being so concerned about candy or or like when they were like when they're hiding out at an abandoned mini golf course, but and she like wants to take the golf balls with her. It is just weird thing that a kid would do Yeah. And then Christian Slater, who who haven't talked about a lot, but when his plan is he dreams of going to Vermont, is like, that's his promised land and that's so for their whole like career or as Outlaws. He's like, well, let's just go to Vermont. Nobody will find our car, won't make it out of Texas slow a loan Vermont r But and then he's like he has the line.

He's like, what would we do in Vermont? We don't have any money, and he's like, we don't need it. We could eat like plants and leaves and drink snow. And that's and I remember, like I my childhood was pretty decent, but like you know, every young teenager at some point, I think you you entertain the idea of running away. Sure, and I think, yeah, my plans were about as good as his.

Oh there's these those cliffs. I'll just build like this fantastic Swiss family Robinson uh treehouse, you know, out in the woods and live off the land. Gilligan's Island made us all think we were much more resilient than we ever would be in a real situation. Who's the coconut radio radio they did in the sixties all the time. How hard can it be?

Exactly? Yeah, So should we talk a little about baby Christian Slater later. He's adorable. What's what's amazing to me is how un Christian Slater he is, Like, like he's just a kid, a decent like maybe a little bit more talent than the average you know, like kid actor in an eighties sort of teen movie. Uh, but really just not.

And it's only like three years between this and Heathers where he emerges as in that one movie just fully formed Christian Slater, the Christian Slater he's been ever since. But he's so just sort of charming and innocent and cute in this film. Uh. And that's a kid. Yeah, he's a kid like like a like especially again in the eighties when it was so common for any number of reasons to cast you know, people in their twenties and even thirties, I say, the eighties, but like have Steve McQueen playing a teenager in the blob U.

But like to to really get like a legitimately young cast that are more or less the ages that they're that they're playing, uh, and then to to sort of luck out and get you know, someone as good as Christian Slater, someone as good as as Yardley Smith, Um, someone as good as Helen Slater right before her turn is Supergirl. Yeah and later Supergirl's mom. Uh but uh yeah, I thought Christian Slater was was fun in this. Yeah, it's neat to see him like and you under you can kind of see like what we would see of him a little later of that kind of like what's the word I'm looking for. It's like there's a madness to most Christian Slater roles, right, there is always this sense and this is why I and part of this is because most like most people had there was probably the first thing I him and that there is always that feeling that at any given point he is going to go fucking crazy on you.

Yeah, and you I think I bring some of that that when I see him in a movie. So I'm watching him in this and even though the performance doesn't go there, I'm waiting for him to be the wild card. Um, but there is just like you. I love when you watch a movie with actors before they were famous and like you see like, yeah, they're going to be a star, Like you kind of can see that little like there's something about the way their their face catches the camera, the way they they they just have a way of delivering line that connects better than somebody else. And I was like that, Yeah, but the unpredictableness of yeah, sort of what Christian Slater would become really serves the role also because like when you're fifteen sixteen year old, you know, you are a wild card.

That's just yeah, like you never like I remember so many times just cruising along being super happy and then just out of nowhere, just something you know, turns your your mood because you're going through so much biologically and yeah, uh so yeah, it's really I think kind of like he really captured that just kind of pent up, like especially if you're growing up with not a lot of money, not a lot of resources, of just this sort of directionless chip on your should anger yeah and and and yeah, dissatisfaction uh and and nowhere and really no way to sort of channel it. Yeah, until you throw a milkshake into and that kid, I mean he deserved the milkshake and and the knee to the ball. Definitely. Yeah, it's a good time.

It well, I you know, having suggested this movie with only vague memories of it. I gotta say I was so pleased with how much I still love it, like maybe even more than when I was younger, and not just because of the theme song, which I guess is the last thing to mention Pat bar is invincible is I can't even really just say Pat Benatar is invincible without already I'm like kind of wanting to stand up and put my fist in the air. But it is a fantastic, fantastic theme song written by a woman named Holly Knight or co written by her, and she wrote not just invincible but love It was a battlefield nice the Warrior. Yeah. And then for Tina Turner better be good to me and one of the living so I had said.

I was like, man, someone messed with this lady's heart at the point, and she has been like I would like to thank that someone who fucked with their heart. Music. Yeah, just that string of songs is like Jim Steinman levels yea of achievement in bombastic rock anthems. Nice yeah, good stuff. Christine, how was this rewatch?

Because I'm guessing it had been well like ten years since You're last year. Yeah, yeah, it had been a while um, I think I remembered most of the beats um, but yeah, did there were parts of it that did feel like kind of watching it for the first time, like the smaller moments and like the emotional resonance, I kind of forgot how I would potentially connect with it. Yea, and like I enjoyed it quite a bit. But but again, what you said, I think there's room for stuff like this again now, more stuff like this. It made me think of Assassination Nation too.

Still haven't seen that. We should collart. Why I haven't seen it because I remember thinking like, oh, I think we might cover this one day. Yeah, it's just these stories of younger people and what it actually means to be a younger person, you know, not just like them as as set pieces or like ways to drive the plot, but really stories about about not being heard, listened to, or respected in your youth. And I think there's there's a place for it now because we're doing just that with like you know, taking books out of libraries, not listening to what kids want, ruining the environment when we're not going to be here and kids are gonna so like there's there's this is this exists now?

Still it's still a problem. But I can't name a movie where where they're they're addressing it like they do here. Yeah. Yeah, and if you know of that movie, they're out there. Yeah.

I think that that we're we have been for a long time now in an era of such cynicism in entertainment, and to some degree that's justified, and that can produce a lot of great cinema. But you get movies like these in the in the eighties, especially where they they lack any sort of guile, they lack any sort of of cynicism. Uh, they're completely sort of earnest and they're willing to be hyper emotional. Um, and we just we don't do that a lot anymore. I mean you in like in Legend Billy Jean, like you really believe that people really believe.

Yeah. And I know, the most recent things I can think of that had any like tapped into that sort of just raw sort of you know, don't give a damn about seeming silly emotion was like like the bridge scene in the original Sam Raimi Spider Man, uh or you know, where it's just it's just like we don't care, like we're gonna go on full corny hero everyone's in this like teaming up together. Um, and I you know, it's it's kind of it's my general ration. You know, gen X making movies and TV shows now, and uh, it's weird that we grew up loving this sort of earnest, hard on the sleeve entertainment, but we don't necessarily make it ourselves. Yeah, but I, like I said, I work with gen Z a lot of a lot, and I like, I think those kids are awesome.

And I think when when they've they've gotten into you know, the level where they're they're going to sort of you know, have control of entertainment or come into it, I'm really interested to see to see what they do because yeah, we're really I'd like to blame it all on the boomers. Uh, but you know gen X. You know, Ted Cruise is gen X. Marjie Teyler Green is gen X. We ain't doing great, um, and they're calling them out on it or we or are we all?

We all felt too cool you know to sort of stepped in into these roles. So uh yeah, I always try, and I'm thankful, like selfishly thankful that as I get older, I'm not doing that thing where you drift more conservative. If anything, I'm going in the opposite direction. So uh yeah, gen Zum, save us, save us. All the eighties were a retro trend, although you didn't bring back just casually wearing body glove look look into it.

Um, But I'm I'm looking forward to what you do because we didn't quite get it right. So yeah, um, big recommendation for me for my first time. I just I had a great time with it again, it like it made me feel things. I just I felt good, I felt like cheering at the screen. I smiled a lot.

Um, there's there's a lot here for everybody. It is currently I rented it on Amazon. I don't know if there's a I think there's a release out of it out there. I don't know if it's got special features or anything, but oh I owned it. Is it loaded?

It's the special Fair is Fair Edition? Yeah, and that it has commentary nice? Does it come with instructions on how to get the haircut? And it sadly no? But yeah, so it's a fairly bare bones release.

But also, I mean, I don't I remember costing me like eight dollars, so I'll keep my eye for it. Yeah, all right, so big recommend. Thank you for recommending it because now I got to watch it. Um yeah yeah, good times my pleasure. And now I want to say, and I don't know how you guys feel about praise on your own podcast one, it was super fun.

Thank you again one, but for both of you, and I say this from time to time on through Twitter comment, but it's good to say while we're all talking. The perspective that both of you bring to to think about and talking about and writing about movies, and the kind of the way that you get me, especially because I'm the me that knows me thinking about movies in a different way, or thinking about something that I hadn't or correcting thinking like Christine when you said Anthony Perkins bisexual not homosexual. That's important thing to know. That matters. So I really really really appreciate everything that the two of you do.

I think it's fantastic. I think you're both two of the smartest, most insightful thanks people out there working. So keep doing what you're doing. Wow. Yeah, yeah, well I really appreciate that.

I feel the same about Emily, I think an icon and a legend. But Keith, same for you. What you tweet about in the movies that you're watching and what you're looking into always makes me look weird things up and sometimes add weird things to my cue. And I appreciate that because sometimes we can get into a feedback loop of like everyone talking about the same seven things and then it switches to new seven things. But it's nice to maybe but we can eat when Keith mentioned something, yeah, to hear something else, you know.

It's it's cool to have different perspectives so that we're not all just like in an echo chamber, you know. And I feel like I've learned things from Keith mhm. I think again we're talking about perspective. But you you have such an interesting area of expertise, and I think you also share it really well. I think you are also a wonderful writer and speaker.

And let's make sure that people know where to find your your writing because you have a book. You have one book out or two books out, oh one the second book. It will absolutely definitely be finished by twenty twenty one. I know that. That's a great day.

Yeah, yeah, I got that in my calendar. Two yeah. Uh, well, for thank you, it means a lot. I always try there was I was reading the poet Lengths and Hughes has these two autobiographies that he wrote, which are fantastic. They're basically just adventure and travel novels because his life was insane, but he was describing someone else, he says, a gentleman who was always happy to help others appreciate the things he had learned to appreciate.

So for me, it's always it's like nothing's worse than gay keeping. Man, I hate it, like always, like I always want to try to be welcoming people in. But yeah, so the book still Cocktails and Capers. It's by the Keith Allison that wrote Cocktails and Capers, not the Keith Allison that writes books on holistic horse care. I got a lot of I can grow up on a horse farm, so I can help you.

Two of you need to collaborate. Let me just say that Keith Allison squared Cocktails, four horses. Yeah, and someday I'll finish the sequel. I have the title and I designed a nice cover. All I gotta do is right the contents.

That's easy part. And then I have a website called Suburban Pagans, which is sort of taking over slowly from uh my original website, a thing called telehort City, which this year celebrates its twenty fifth websites for twenty five years. Believe it or not, Believe it or not? Um, yeah, and so that's a suburban suburban pagans dot com or there's a sub stack. Uh.

You can find me on Twitter and Instagram. I'm still on there. Don't message me on Facebook. That's I'm not on there anymore. Uh, but yeah, your hand, don't message on Facebook and so and for me it's don't message me on Instagram because I never remember where messages are for me.

You can message me on Facebook or Twitter. Keith, what is your Twitter handle? Bond one? There's an underscore in there, isn't there? I'm possibly all right, I'll go to Twitter and copy and paste it.

Christie, Yeah, it's bond v one all right, Just so you know, thank you. Just just write me a letter, mail it to Raven uh and Christine of course, you have books, you have stories, anything new to tell people about there. You can follow me on Twitter at exteen underscore makepeace. Um. I have a short story uh coming out on the internet tomorrow that I'm really proud of and really excited about it's it's with a great publisher, and if you follow me on Twitter you'll see that come by.

Um. I also am set my finalist for a second time with my short screenplay. UM. So I am working on my feature and one day you'll be like, hey, I really hate Christine's movie. I'm gonna go dig back through her old podcast to try to see her saying something fucked up so that I can be mad at her.

And you know what, welcome to you, friend time staff of this day. Good luck with that. I hope it works out. And if you if you haven't bought The Sound of Breaking Glass, yes, it's thanks. It's so good.

Thank you. I do appreciate that. Yes, Emily, what do you got? Um I'm the lazy one that doesn't have books. Um, I have a blog still, you know, for the people that like blogspot, I got one.

It's still there. Deadly dolls house dot com or deadly Dollars house dot blogspot dot com. Either link works, because that's how high tech I am. In twenty twenty three. Yeah, I still write about horror movies for the most part, occasionally books.

I started writing about books because that's fun, that is Yeah. Yeah, all right, well what a what a wonderful trio. We are everybody. You can find us on Instagram at Feminine I Think, Underscore Critique, Underscore Pod, Twitter at Feminine Podcast, and on Facebook Feminine Critique. Look at me hip with the socials like a cool cat.

You did it. That's right. I am the Billy Jean of No I'm the But's I know, I'm the Putter of twenty twenty three. I guess Keith would be the Christians later in Christine your billy Jean. That's fine.

Yeah, yeah, I'll take it. Yeah, okay, I'm glad. I'm glad. We're all agreed with that being said. Everybody, Um, faires fair and keep that in mind.

Faires fair. Goodbye, Miss bloody names, Miss Dream the sundown stills he had, When are we waiting for any boy? Help? Why are we waiting by? We can apode then into one situation.

We will be in somebod