BONUS - Kelly Knox - Co-author of "Return of the Jedi - A Visual Archive"

Okay, Kelly, So tell me when did you first fall in love with these movies, these Star Wars movies. Oh gosh, Ever since I was little. I'm old enough to remember seeing Return of the Jedi in the movie theater. I think I was five or six. So my whole life basically.

Has Yeah, you look good, forty something, I have to say. I mean, I'm forty seven, and I feel like an old man next to you here on the screen. I'm in yea forty something. So yeah, I'm a Original Trilogy kid all the way. And so yeah, we grew up watching a VHS copy taped off of HBO and watched.

Those over and over and over. And you know, we didn't have back then. Obviously, didn't have smartphones or a way to take the movies with us. So I had my little discman and my headphones, and I would take the first soundtrack with me everywhere or when I was feeling kind of sad or alone or whatever, and I would just watch the movie that way, by listening to the music and closing my eyes and just watching it in my imagination. So yeah, it's always It's always been there in the in the memory and in my life.

So I'm pretty lucky to be able. To keep it there. Yeah, it's amazing to think, isn't it that we've existed in the world where I mean, I was born in seventy six. I don't remember my first year of life, so my whole life it's been there. You know, the sounds, the visuals, Like you say, listening to the soundtrack, sometimes you can you know the scene, don't you know the bit of dialogue that goes with that scene?

Yeah? Yeah, it's crazy. So when you you know you've written this amazing book. I wrote this amazing book with Clayton Sandel and st Bendo as well. The Visual Archive or a Visual Archive and Return of the Jedi.

It must be pretty cool for you as a fan to be doing something like this. I know you've had a couple of books related to styles and movies outready, but you know, Return the Jedi Clovey means a lot to you, so it must be pretty cool to have your name on this. It does. Yeah. The reason I remember seeing Return of the Jedi at such a young age is the right when the eLAC steals the speeder near the end, the film strip snapped, it broke and the whole and started yelling at the screen, and so that.

Moment was really burned into my memory. I don't know if I saw the end of the movie after that. I can't remember what happened after, but that's one of my first like movie going memories. So Return the Jedi was already pretty special, and then to get the chance to work with Clayton and st on this, yeah, it seemed like a nicer coming together of everything. That Star Wars.

Did you approach the publisher or did they approached you? How did that work? They approached us and then we were each They already had the idea, like the basic layout in mind at that point when they came to us, and so they gave us each section. Sadly I did not. Have the Eors Speeder in my section, but I did have a lot of other parts to write about.

So yeah, we were assigned that, and then we took off on. Our own, you know, researching and and looking into the to the sections we were assigned. So it was it was a very segmented process, but at the same time, you know, we helped each other out with sources and. Things, and of course there's been a lot of books, quite a few books about Return of Jedi. Of course, there's the Rintler book, there's Philip Peach's book from Back in the Day, the kind of like diary almost, there's the Art of Return of the Jedi, and of course it's appeared in many other books as well to do with the trilogy.

What was it that made you? What did you do to make sure that what you created here is something different? What was the sort of ethos of the book? So what sets this book apart from something like Wrinsler's Amazing, Amazing behind the scenes, but is that this book focuses a little bit more on the connections. That branched out from Return of the Jedi as much as it does the behind the scenes.

So we'll talk about an element of return maybe that premiere to Return of the Jedi, how they made it, you know, the thinking and philosophy behind it. But then how that one section kind. Of grew from there group things like Mandalorian or the Book of Boba Fett, or even things like the Droids cartoon or the Ewok movies like immediately following the release of the film. So it was a really fun project to not just look. At behind the scenes and use some of those amazing sources you mentioned, but then to you know, take a look at more recent Star Wars and say, oh, that thing came from Return to the Jedi.

You know, I had no idea that that's where we. First saw and so that was a really fun process of discovery while working on the book. Yeah, and some of those things are concepts that Ralph macquarie might have come up with on Aneita Ritis or Joe Johnson might have come up with it that we've then seen subsequently in these shows. I mean even seeing the like this week, you see that kind of entry way with the it's almost like a pergola almost. That was in some of the original drawings for Jabba's Ballast, which you see in the book.

So it's cool to see those connections, isn't It was that something that was there from the start, the idea of connecting it to the more recent Star Wars shows. Yeah, I think that was actually probably where they started the idea with is because there are so many, you know, wonderful behind the scenes sources of information, like I think they wanted to focus. It on the visuals. That's why they call it the visual archive. Behind the scenes or making a book and so yeah, like things like the Corruscant images that Ralph McCory made, they just used recently in the last season of The Mandalorian things like that, Like you said that they you know, they designed so long ago nineteen eighty one eighty two, that we still are now seeing for the first time in Star Wars.

It's such an amazing and unique element of Star Wars. I think that it's just fun. Yeah, with the photos already selected, or did you have any say in the photos, like, once you've written your part, whether it's about what was one of the sections you said you wrote, sorry in particular, Oh no, I didn't. Say I did the battle in space around the death start too, for example. So the classic shot of like the falcon flying toward the screen and the Death Star two behind it.

Yeah, that was one of my sections. You then provided with the photographs that your text is going to fit within, And did you say, maybe could we change this photograph to compliment that? Was it a two way street? Yeah? I was a little both, but more often than not, the images were already picked, and I think here and there I had a suggestion, but mostly it was already chosen, which is good because I think if we had been given a choice, I thought it wouldn't last for weeks.

Just looking at theos. I mean, that's kind of my dream to get into the archive all of the behind the scenes material. I believe there's like three hundred and fifty hours of behind the scenes material the original trilogy, and I can't imagine how many photos though, I mean that would be I'd just do that for the rest of my life, quite know. And I mean by Jedi, they probably had the most of any movie. I mean, there's so much fun stuff just in the book that I can't imagine other things they got to look through.

And as somebody who has created their own Return of the Jedi book, an unofficial one, let's say, and also an unofficial documentary about Return of the Jedi, I have read everything and seen everything that is available for Turn Jedi. So it's very cool to go through this book. I go, hang on, I've never seen that particular drawing before. I loved that really simple sketch from Nilo rodis Hramira of the atst I don't think I've ever seen them before. In fact, I know Nilo.

I've chatted to him a few times. I've sent him that picture today, just to say to him because when I interviewed him a couple of years ago, and then I interviewed him again this just this last month. So this episode of you and I talk In is going to be sandwiched between two episodes of Nilo and I having a chat. Wow. And he was talking to me about just those early concepts, just trying to create something iconic, you know, with just some simple lines, and he said, the details then up to the modelers and you know, the model makers and the people filming the shots.

So it's cool to see some of the really early, early, early stuff like that, and then all those lovely inserts as well, Like if anybody's got the Steve sand Sweet book the Star Wars Archives, there's lots of those little inserts, so you get like a cell of the droid's cartoon, or you might get like a tattoo or a iron on transfer. There's stuff like that in the book. So the book itself is a kind of little voyage of discovery, isn't it for the reader? Because you come across these pages and you kind of go, oh, hang on a minute, this one folds out three times, and I get to see a biger use something that's very cool. Cool case are my favorite.

The Ralph McCory concept are I guess it's called a gatefold that kind of opens up to like four pages. Those are my favorite. Yeah, there's We actually didn't know, me Clayton and st that those were going to be in there because we'd only seen the digital pdia. Yeah, so when we got copies of a book. Just like polaroid pulp fake polaroids, but polaroids and stickers and all sorts of stuff in there.

The thing is with Star Wars, like as I said, you know, we've got these other books made, the Rintler Book, the Pitcher Book, and all of those Star Wars fans love detail, of course. I mean there's a bit in the book I think where you know, you might say that you know this was shot at Elstreet. You could go and say, this is shot on a Wednesday, it was you know, twenty five degrees, it was raining. Richard mark On was on well this day. You know you could go into so much detail.

How much did you have to sort of rain yourself in to make sure that this was not getting bogged down in those kind of details. Oh, that's a good question. I would say pretty often, because you know, the Wrinsler goes into so much detail and so many and there's so many things to just kind of discover about. The movie that you know that I personally didn't know before that I was like, that's a cool fact. That's a cool fact.

And yet so I wanted to try and put all that in. Uh so, yeah, definitely fighting against the little space of the of the text versus allticle things that I think would be fun. To share it. Yep. Was there any ever, because you're you know, as I said, you're looking in these books, you're probably getting what style insider articles and stuff, the common articles and stuff.

Were there ever any points where there was some conflicting information and you had to go back to Lucasfilm to say, hang on, which of these is true? Because you do find that sometimes over the years, people tell their stories and they grow and they change, and. Uh yeah, no, I can't think of a specific instance. I was lucky enough that a lot of my sections focused on things like the old Banta Tracks newsletter and things like that I watched, I read, and then I found some old documentaries that people like Ken Ralston had done, and so I just kind of focused on their words specifically, but I never saw any I never saw any real conflict because I think at the time those were all recorded at the time, so I think the memories were more fresh.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I've spoken to Ken as well, And as soon as you say Ken on a documentary, I think it's probably that one. It was shown here in the UK as Horizon How to Film Them Possible, Yeah, where he talks about that particular shot with having more elements than any other any other Yes, You're nineteen or something. I think it's called. Yeah.

That was such a fun I was so happy to find that documentary because it was so interesting and they had so much footage of been placing every. Element on the screen and you could see how it moved. Yeah, that's exactly. Right that there's that shot in that documentary. I don't think it's Ken talk, and I think it might be another ILM guy where he's got that kind of grid of where all the ships cross each other and he puts a cross in every box every time one has to overlap another and whether it's behind or in front, and it just kind of blows your mind that they had to go to that level.

Of detail and understand that as a sort of mental hold that as a mental idea that shot to sort of render it on the screen. And I mean, now we can use tools to previers and all of that kind of stuff, but back then, I mean, it's it's quite something. I think this book almost is like a gateway to the original trilogy for younger viewers of the new stuff, you know, the new films, because of course I keep thinking of myself as like, I'm an Original trilogy guy, but now there are people who are talking about the prequels like I talked about the original, you know, because it's twenty five years old. So you watch things like you know, the Acolyte, and you're going, oh, this feels really prequellly, and you suddenly realize there's more prequellly feeling Star Wars out than there, and there is original trilogy stuff now I love yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's amazing.

But yeah, I feel like this is a good a good way for people to kind of go, oh, okay, that's where that comes from and you sort of trace it back to it to its origins. Do you find as a as a Star Wars fan, like looking back through the book that you enjoy the bits that you weren't involved with. Oh yeah, I've looked through Clayton's and STS chapters and everything so that I didn't have any idea. Like just every time I flip through it, I read something and I was like, I had no idea, what was the one I didn't know that the original actress came back for the special addition to film her. I had no idea, and I.

Just yeah, yeah, she looked amazing. I mean this is twenty something years later. Nobody knew. Yeah, yeah, I remember, Wow, she she did well. I literally couldn't tell it was amazing.

So yeah, but there's such there's so many fun things like that in this week that I just love as a fan to find new things out. Yeah. We do love a fact, don't we are Star Wars fans. I think one of the best things about doing my podcast is that I get to revisit and research, you know, and deep dive into things. But also in having these conversations with people that worked on the movies, it's also trying not to research too much so that there's something fresh that can come out of it, you know.

I want to get past people's kind of regular stories that they've told over and over again and get those out of the way and get into the deeper stuff. And I think this book does that as well. You know, I've there's certainly some things where I've flicked and I'm like, oh, well, I've seen that picture before, and then I think, hang on a minute, he's got a different expression here in that shot. And you know, it might be one of the outtake photos that wasn't used previously, or it might be like those polaroids. I've not seen those polaroids with the little insert I've not seen them that big before.

I think they're in JW's book in the column somewhere a little tiny it's a little tiny inserts. And same with the writing as well, Like some of the facts, I was like, yeah, I know this, but oh, hang on a minute, how do I not know this? Those are my favorite? So yeah, yeah, Did you go to sources that were outside of the kind of Lucasville Lucasville markive? You mentioned that documentary had to film impossible?

Were you like trawling through YouTube and other places as well, and other magazines like I don't know, star log or anything like that. Okay, did look through Starlog. Yes they did because Richard Marcanda did an interview I'd never read before. I found there things like Star Wars celebration interviews. I found a lot of things that I probably wouldn't have found otherwise.

Yeah, so there's lots of there's lots of places places I think out there now, you know, Like I said, luckily they kept so much information for the behind the scenes and tracks, so much of what they did that you know, we had some really great references to to look at. Talking of celebration, Are you going to Japan? Yes, well we have. Yeah, we got our passes and we're looking at our flights now. So yeah, I'm here in London.

So I went to London. Was it last year? Was last year? I did a panel on for ILM on and or I used to the panel with the VFX and special effects team and that was that was amazing. I've never done anything like that before.

It's just off the back of doing this podcast. Are you getting involved in any panels and things? Do you think where? I hope? So I write for Star Wars dot Com, so I'll definitely be doing a little bit of work, probably covering panels and whatnot.

But so far enough, I'll. Be on a pan I helped, so maybe there's time to get another book out before you go, and maybe, I mean, it'd be great to see a book about the sort of Star Wars in Japan, because you know, Japan is one of those few places that I used to travel a lot for my work. I worked Formula one motor racing, so I used to go around the world constantly, like for twenty years, and Japan was one of the places that I would love to go to because it feels so different, like, you know, they have their very individual culture, and you know you'll see you'll be in places where you won't see a Roman character, you know, for howurs kind of thing. And I love when you see Star Wars things there because it's like it's a robot version of a Star Wars character or you know, or they've done a manga of it or something like that.

So I think that would be really cool. I think it's gonna be a lot of fun. I didn't get the down of London, so I'm no so I'm looking gloried to be going in twenty twenty five. Be interesting to see who they get out there for a long way to go for stars of the movies. But you know, I guess we've got a lot of fresh, raring to go stars and now these new TV shows like The Acolyte and Mendelorian and everything else, and maybe we'll see them there.

Yeah, I hope. So, yeah, I'll be at home watching it on the streaming in the middle of the night. Yeah, that's a good point. The timing is going to be a little funny. Yeah.

So have you got plans for more books? I know you've written your Marvel book, and you've got your b more Obi Wan and your Star Wars. Dad jokes it is Father's Day here next weekend in the UK, so that is on the list. Given a few nudges to people to my daughter's But yeah, have you got plans to write any more books in the Star Wars universe? Oh yeah, we've got in the fall.

There's a new updated Star Wars encyclopedia coming out. I was part of a team that one. And then I think there's one that hasn't been announced yet. All right, you have to be careful not to mention. Yeah it's another visual archive.

But oh well, I hope it's Empire working backwards. You don't have to say. Anything would make amazing, Yeah, amazing. I think. Yeah, Empire strikes Back for me has probably got the most kind of iconic ships and characters and locations and costumes.

And if ever I start sort of doubting my love for Styles, I just put on the strikes Back and fall back in love with it again. Yes, that's me with the first one. Like I said, the music and everything, that's the one that I Yeah. It's funny you say about listening to the soundtrack and stuff. I really kind of fell in love with Stars after taping it off the TV, but only I only had audio tape, so I used to know that the film inside that I used to put my recorder up against the TV.

And that's how I kind of fell in love with it. And here I am, age forty eight, still talking about it. You know, it's crazy. So we're so lucky. Yeah.

Is your house adorned with I can see a Darth Vader mask or something behind you. Yeah. Just my off is mostly I'm obviously the biggest Star Wars fan in the house. Keep it, I keep it contained in. My My wife is very understanding.

I have a few bits. I think there's almost I think there's something in every room now, which just a small thing. It might be just a stormy hiding in a house plant. Or something in I have like a Dive Vader spoon rest in the kitchen, little things they can sneak in here. Yeah.

Have you still got anything from back in your childhood when you first fell in love with the movies? I do the Darth Vader mask you mentioned, that's actually post that's a dumb. Post from Return of the Jedi. Nice. He's made it through Uh.

I grew up in Texas, so he made it through Texas summers and the attic and you moved all the way up here to Seattle with me. Yeah. Well, I appreciate your time today, Kelly, and I have to say to people that are listening that it's definitely worth checking out Turn a Jedi Visual Guide, because you know, if you've made me happy reading it, And as I said, I'm somebody who's read everything there is and seen everything there is available, and you've shown me and told me new things. So yeah, definitely check it out, folks. And thanks Kelly for your time, and hope to bump into you someday.

Maybe another style celebration that isn't in Japan. Yes, I hope, so, I hope. So. Thanks again for chatting with me today. Yes,