Hairspray (2007)

We wait, Josh, I took you a little bit by surprise when I texted you over the weekend because I was like, Hey, I just wanted to, you know, let you know we're still on for Tuesday, and You're like, this is the first that I'm hearing of it being the two thousand and seventh version of the movie, which I almost feel like I need to apologize. But the quality of the movie I think is still okay. Maybe not maybe. I mean, I'm sure we'll talk about it. It's a very different film, for sure.

Yeah, well that much is sure, but it definitely does not feature I guess the thing that this movie is not known for, quote unquote, but it's the thing that I feel like, if you've heard of this movie and you're not a fan of musicals, the one thing you might have heard of is John Travolta's role in Hairspring. I feel like that's like the thing from the two thousand and seven movie, and I'm sure we'll spend some time talking about it, maybe not the entire episode, I mean, I don't think necessary. I think seven is a very long time ago in a lot of ways, but in a lot of ways, it also isn't. But uh, yeah, I, like I said, I kind of want to apologize, but at the same time, like, I'm also glad that we're seeing something together new that neither one of us had seen.

There's there's something to be said said for a a shared new viewing experience. However, I know that we are however, not the people. Had we we well, we might not have seen it. Jackie has seen it, and and Jackie was immensely excited to talk about the two thousand and seven one. I assume Jackie you were excited.

Oh yeah, I saw like at least three times in the theater. Yeah, I mean I knew what I was getting into. I do that well, I mean you know knew. I mean, you know, within reason. Yeah.

But on this episode of the Culture Cast, I am still your host, Christashu, much to the chagrin of many, and I'm joined by a first time guest to the show. But him and I have been talking before. He is a huge, uh not only fan of Indian cinema, but he has been carrying the torch a lot longer and a lot harder than most people have for Indian cinema. He is the critic and editor at screen Anarchy. Josh Urtato, Hi, thanks for having me, of course, and all the way from somewhere in Texas, a person that is still here kicking around with us, first time in a while, but I am glad they are back.

Jackie Stewart, Hey, Yeah, good morning Baltimore. And if you can't tell, like we've kind of alluded to, we are rounding out the month of musicals with a movie that was planned, that was on the docket, that did not get changed at the thirteenth hour like so many of these other ones did for reasons that I shall not go into. But we're rounding the month out with two thousand and sevens Hairspray. So the film is directed by Adam Chankman, base on the musical of the same film of the same on the Top of the World, based on John Waters from that clown Blonsky, and it's the musical Hairstop with those people follows the beats. However, if you don't know the story, Nicky Blonski plays Tracy Turnbled, a teenager who lives, like Jackie alluded to in Baltimore, who wants to become I guess famous, but also just wants to be noticed.

And who doesn't want to be noticed, especially if you're different. And boy, there's a lot going on here that I think is still just as important as when it came out. I think maybe even more important now given the way things are going and the way things are in the world. Uh. And you know what for me, uh before I ask, y'all, this was a much needed reminder of the goodness of humanity in a time where things necessarily aren't that way all the time.

If ever so, Josh, I'll kick it to you first, since you have never been on the show before, tell me a little bit about your history with the Hairspray and what you thought watching the two thousand and seven one for the culture guest. The Hairspray was one of the original Hairspray was one of the first John Waters films that I saw. It it came out, I was I would have been too young to see in the theaters, but I did see it in the early nineties when I started digging into sort of underground independent cinema and looking up John Waters stuff. And you know, I loved it. I love it still.

I've seen it probably a dozen or more times over the years. And so when I took the plunge with this hairspray. I mean, there's always going to be a bit of you know, Realney attitude. You know, we're it's it's this movie's job to impress me, because I've already been impressed by the original one. And as I mentioned earlier, it's just such a different film in terms of tone, in terms of obviously the budget and the star power involved, and you know, it has a much much different pedigree and a much different cultural place than the original film did.

So I can appreciate that even if I don't like it as much, just because you know, the other one just is is very special to me. I have very specific issues with the new one, but we'll get into those as we begin in the movie. But I don't regret my time with it. I'll say that well is starting off on at least a good foot. If you were like I regret it, I'd be like home man.

But I mean, you know, I regret plenty of movies. I regret a lot, So this one. I know that that's a step up in the lik Yeah that's fair, Jackie, what about you, I'll kick the use same question. So it's it's like almost the opposite story where like I go all the way back with it. I I mean, John Waters is probably, if not my favorite director, certainly my favorite personality, if that makes any sense, just the most fascinating human being.

I think that we have telling stories in a way that only he really can. And the original Hairspray actually wasn't a movie that I got in on the ground floor. I was more of a cry baby kid growing up. But when the musical was coming out, like I you know, when I was growing up, it was for some reason, like my two main areas were like horror movies and musicals. So when I heard it was, you know, a John Waters movie that got turned into a very successful Broadway musical was getting turned into a movie again, I was, you know there right, you know, on opening day, my best friend Natasha and I saw like two or three times, just kind of blast with it.

I think it's a really a very strong companion to the original, even if you know the original voice of John Waters obviously is muted a little bit because you know, it's gone through all these different filters from you know, to the stage, back to the screen all that. But I think it's a it's it's just so so fun and so strong, and I remember at the time, people were refusing to look beyond the fact that just like John Travolta was a woman in a fat suit in it, like like that was all you could think about, and they were refusing to look at the fact that there's a whole, like actual movie here with a story and a message to it. And that's bothered me ever since. But I've gone to bat for the whole time.

I've always enjoyed this movie a lot. So I have never been one to shy away from being honest on this show, and I will continue to I will continue to be that person. Because so many people feel shame for saying why I've never seen this, I'm going to maybe blow one, if not both, of your minds. I have seen nothing that John Waters has ever directed. This is the first John Waters thing that I have seen.

I did not want to watch the original, not because I didn't want to watch it, but because I didn't want it to color my judgment on this movie immediately, so I waited to watch it after I had seen this one to watch the original. That being said, uh, with my again, I am not an expert on John Waters, but I am here to as someone who is now seeing this movie have an opinion about it. And again, the things that I can interpret through the lens of this movie. I enjoyed this movie immensely similarly to you, Jackie. I know, and remember the John Travolta in a fat suit thing, and like that was such a big deal that.

Yeah, like in a lot of ways, That's all I can kind of before having seen the movie. Remember the movie was being talked about. I don't even remember in that discourse it having anything to do with the movie or the plot or what the movie's messages, which I think we would all agree the message of the movie is rather important. Uh. And again, like people are getting hung up on this specific role in this specific movie without the understanding that this role is played this way in the movie.

That's the way it is. I mean that in the original it's divine, in this one it's John Travolta because the producers wanted John Travolta because it was subversive on the idea that he was Danny Zuko and Greece, which sure, I guess, I mean, I get it. I think that I honestly, I think for me, if we to begin to dig into the movie, and I think to face the John Travolta question head on. I think my issue with the John Travolta character is it's just they could have done a better job with the makeup. It's not perfect.

It's not. Yeah, it's it's not. That's the weird thing is that usually you find a person who is large and cast them in that role. That's right, that's the gimmick. But here it was like, well, we need a big name, so you know, fake it.

I have very specific issues with John Travolta in this in this performance, and he's you know, I've I've since having watched this sort of gone through even like looking at a letterboxed and seeing my friend's reactions to it, being shocked that their responses are more positive than mine. And I'd hate to be I'm not trying to be negative, but the ones that really throws me the fat suit. I mean, it's a fat suit. It can only be what it is, you know, And I have issues with the casting. Apart from what you said about you know, it being essentially stunt casting.

You've got, you know, this very famous musical star icon in the movie, but that accent. What is going on with that accent that is that accent doesn't exist in nature. Well, I mean, he was doing his best to do a Baltimore accent, which is a nightmare of an accent when you hear as a flash. But like everyone was very like Travolta was very insistent on doing that accent, and nobody else wanted that. Like John Waters doesn't like people faking Baltimore accents, you know, for his work.

He just wants them to sound like the character's supposed to sound. Harvey Firestcene originated the role on Broadway. Harvey fire Scene can't sound like anybody but Harvey Firestein. That's what made it worked. But he's he's just eating all of those words.

Every single word just gets that fat suit and it's really kind of sometimes hard to understand what he's saying. It is, it's it is hard to understand what he's saying. And then when we get to the parts where it's singing, where it's clearly like done in post, so they're giving him like plenty of time to get back and like, Okay, do it again, do it again, do it again, and make it sound like we can hear the words to the songs. Then it's like, well, he doesn't even try to do the accent, and it's like, well, why try to why try to do it when you're not singing, because like it's just it. It seems like you're I mean again, like it seems like you're just trying to do it for the sake of doing it.

And yeah, some of those lines I like when I cause, I mean, I watch everything with subtitles on as I assume maybe y'all do, and like I'm glad I did, because like bluh Rura, Like it's it like there is something that is like kind of comically fat suitish about it, like it for whatever reason, the voice, it's like they like John Travolta was like, well, because they're fat, they have to have this like weird also like fat voice thing, and it's just so yeah, it's it's the accents really hard to wrap my head around because I just want some people watching the dailies going, this is not gonna work. Tell John to do something else, like please, but no, It's like it's there throughout the movie. And I was similarly to yourself, Josh, like I was really having a hard time with it, Like it was it was hard to understand most of the time, and that role just kind of disappears into that, like it just John Travolta is great, giving it his all, but like I think he took it in the wrong direction, the far wrong direction.

I I yeah, it's it's it's camp to a degree that doesn't the film doesn't sustain because this Hairspray is not a campy film. The original Hairspray is deliberate camp because that's what John Waters does. The performance of John Travolta in this film feels out of play with some of the other characters around him. Like you've got some characters who are trying to play it fairly straight, you know, to keep Blonski's playing it fairly straight. Michelle Fifer's playing it fairly straight in her role.

The other characters have their quirks. But he's just going all out in a way that is distracting to me. And it's it's almost it's almost like he's trying. And I don't think that this was Travolta, but I think it's just a I think it's just an effect of what happened. Oh, it's I don't think Travolta was trying to stage upstage everybody.

But that's kind of what it feels like like every time he's in a scene as Edna, it's like, I don't think you're intentionally trying to draw attention to yourself in this scene, but the but you are. And like again, I don't think it was Travolta. I think it's just a mix of all of these things that just don't I don't say that's the thing. I don't know if it would have been better to just bite the bullet, And that's what I don't know, Like who if you don't cast somebody like John Travolta, they don't get in the way, But then you don't have that thing to sell the movie on. But it ends up not being a thing to sell the movie on as much as this like weird kind of oddity of a casting decision agree on the On the upside, apparently the cast his casting Like he wasn't just you know, cast in the movie.

He actually you know, was pretty pretty involved in the process and was particularly insistent about a couple of the other casting decisions, which I do think we're really strong, Like apparently the Old Batman Returns Reunion was his id apparently Christopher Walking in particular was his suggestion, as was Michelle Pfeifer. And I think they go a long way to really elevate the movie, especially Walking Walking. Just ah, every single second he's on screen. He's incredible in this movie. He does a lot with very little, that's for really.

I was a bit disappointed. I mean that it took a you know whatever, It was an hour and twenty minutes before he danced, but h right, but you know, yeah, I feel like it's like a treat at this point, like we have to learn it way for it, we got to hold up. That's fair, that's fair. But yeah, he he made me a lot of every scene he was in, and it was he he he understood what he was supposed to do. He was supposed to go in there and just be Christopher Walking in that role, whereas Travalta had to create a performance, uh in a in a much bigger way in order to appease his own you know, artistic uh, whatever he desires.

And also just the way that like it's so believable, like you can tell that he just is, you know, is able to convince himself somehow that that is his beautiful wife John Travolta and he's in. He's in for it all the way, like they're they're one song together is maybe my favorite part of the movie because he is so earnest about every single bit of it. He doesn't phone it in, he doesn't make it weird, and it's it's just so sweet and singular and the movie would be fine without it, but it's you know, it's easily like got to be my favorite moment just because of how good Walking is that that that song is also just I think it's a necessary moment just because you know, it is the sort of the rebound from the previous scene with with Walking and Feiffer where she is desperately trying to seduce him and failing, miserable because he literally only has his eyes for his wife, and it's it's the real, the one real big romantic you know, overture that they that they share, the one big romantic experience that they shared together as that song.

And you know, I was when when Travolta is dancing around like okay that I get like the voltic can dance, you know, and he's good at it. And even in the in the final dance number at the hairspray pageants, Miss hairspray pageants, Like he's getting it and he's he's doing all those moves the way a woman would do those moves. You know, it's not His dancing is feminine, and I think that that's that goes a long way to selling the character as well. It's just anytime he opens his mouth that I had issues, like trying to try to forget that it was this person acting as butt offs of just being the character. And it's almost like in another universe it would have been like an Oscar bait role to do, like I'm gonna take on this role and like I'm gonna do the I'm gonna do the Capital A Ector thing, and like it's I mean again to go back to a Robert Downey Junior in Traffic Thunder, Like sometimes it is too much, and that is like the lack of the self awareness of that is part of the problem.

And I don't think that's what's going on here, I mean, but it kind of is. Because again, like I don't know, Josh, if there hadn't been the Baltimore accent, if that would have fixed it for me. I don't know if it would have fixed it for you because we still have to have these very close up shots of John Trabolta's face and like again, like then the then it's then the makeup doesn't look great because like again it just i it looks it looks less overweight than he does swollen. I think is part of the issue. You mean, like everything real like huffy, like he looks looks fuffy.

It doesn't it doesn't quite move right, you know, or or whatever it's and so it's it is. It is just kind of distracting. Well, I mean it's a thing that Divine didn't have to deal with because Divine was a big guy, right and he played when he's on screen, he played big women. And so you know, if there wasn't the additional barrier between the audience and the character of the fat suit, and that, for me is kind of in my mind. When I was watching this film, the thing that I just kept thinking was why not just have Travolta just in drag without the fat suit?

I mean, because Travolta is bigger than a lot of women, because he's a muscular I mean, he's a he's a man like he's just built physically different, and just have him in drag. I don't understand what the fat suit. I mean, the fat suit seems like it's meant to be the gag, and I get that, like a lot of the movie is like except who you are and be who you are. But it could have just been part of the subtext. It didn't have to be like, well he also like, look he's eating in every and look like and look at the way his fling.

It's just like, just look at the way they look. And it's like, I don't Nikki Blonsky is a just a normal looking human being, and then we have that juxtaposed against like someone who looks intentionally fat in a way that she's not, I mean's she's good looking. I wouldn't even consider her back quote unquote, again just using the film's terminology of the way it's presenting the Travolta character, she's not at all. It's like, what are we supposed to think when we see these two together, because it doesn't even really look like mother and daughter. It looks like guy in a fat suit and an actress who is, you know, curvy, And like I feel like even then, like it's hard to get past that when you see the two of them on screen, to the point where again, like if it had just been Travolta in Drag, yeah, probably would still be doing that really over the top accent, but at least it wouldn't be this kind of like again like Halloween costume adjacent thing that's hard to take seriously when again, like you mentioned, Josh, a lot of this movie is meant to be like earnest and heartfelt and like again like tear at your heartstrings, and like there's these people are racists and you know, like the other people aren't racist, and they're fighting for equality.

Like not saying you can't have a good time with that, but like those are some pretty honest and heavy themes to be tackling and talking about and again presenting in the way that they present it, which in this movie is very earnest. Yeah. I agree. It's just the Travolta stuff just feels like, we I don't know, like it's it feels like a gimmick, which the movie doesn't need a gimmick. The music's great, the performances are great, honestly, If anything, it just kind of sits there as this weird thing that we all just kind of have to go, well, you know, other than the Travolta stuff, because that's the thing.

I mean, I don't know, I mean, I don't know y'all's feelings on mister zach Efron. But he's a great actor. I think, I think he's shown since two thousand and seven that he's a great actor. But he's really I mean, everybody else in this movie is fantastic and I think perfectly cast, especially I mean again Zach Efron at the time, like this is the perfect kind of thing for Zach Effron of two thousand and seven to be doing. For sure.

Yeah, he said he's adorable, baby zach efron' he looks he looks great, he's doing it. I was actually shocked at how young he looked. Had to look it up his actual age at the time, and he was like, what nineteen or twenty I think when they made and now, you know, less than twenty years later, boy looks like a brick shitouse. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, boy does of all the of all the characters, I mean, the one person who I felt connected the film, uh sort of tonally to the original source material, the one character that is that reflects similarly in this film and the original is is Amanda Baynes as Penny Pingleton.

I thought, I thought her performance was amazing. She was my favorite party gives me she she totally understood what she was supposed to be doing, and she nailed it until I was a little weirded out by the like the glow up at the end where they put her on the tight stressed possible to make her dance. That was a little weird that, like I was reading that was supposed to have been like she made it out of her own bedroom curtains, which is why there's the weird little part with the like the hooks and everything. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean she she she just nailed it.

I thought she and Alison Janny as her mother, like those those two characters were great. Oh yeah, And it's nice to see Alison Janny just I mean again kind of always not playing the same character, but like she always plays that kind of character really well. And when I saw her unscreen, I was like, ah, man, like I'm the people that are in this movie, even like the small parts are so great, Like Britney Snow plays that role perfectly. I mean, James marsdenis is in the movie throughout and he's great. I mean, Queen Latifah is great.

Everybody in this movie is is good, and that's you know, I think that adds to again, like a more sincere retelling of this. But at the same time, you know, the original. The benefit of the original is that it is again more akin to what we know again in what I am assuming a John Waters would be doing. This is more in a lot of ways for the two thousand and seven crowd, which is fine, but oh for sure, it loses some of the edge, Like, it loses some of the edge, it loses some of the subversiveness because it's being played so so gosh darn straight in a lot of ways, you know, like it's very it's a very nice movie in a lot of ways. Well, it's also just I mean losing that that sort of direct authorial voice because you know Waters, you know, he's he has never had any interest in directing anything.

He didn't right himself in this scene in particular, was pretty much based on his childhood. I think there was a show in Baltimore called the Buddy Dean Show that you know, he was obsessed with, and he said that, you know, the racial situation more or less played out exactly like that, so instead of you know, a young high school girl, it was really John Water. He's writing himself into that role. So you know, for all intents and purposes, he was Tracy, but you know, obviously took some serious liberties with where the character went as opposed to his own real life. But yeah, when it gets you know, once you get that initial very personal story taken away by Broadway and then brought back, you know through that filter again, like it's going to feel more homogenized.

But the ideas I think still come through really really strong. They do. There's a few moments, I mean, there are some what what I found to be the significant deviations that that did kind of throw me and soften the blow in a way in terms of what the film was trying to say. You know, there there's a big deal made about when Tracy gets in trouble for the first time, it has sent it attention, and that's where all the black kids are dancing, dancing like crazy. And in the original film, it is not detention that she's sent to.

He is sent to special ed for her haircut or for her hairstyling, which is where they put all the black kids. So that's a you know, a pretty significant softening of the consequences associated with you know, going that route and associating with with the black kids. Is Oh, it's not the tension you're you are now seen as an inferior person, not just a bad seed, you know. Yeah, it's a much stronger statement in the level of humanity, right yeah. So, so, I mean that was like one of the things I'm like, Okay, well, they're softening this for a broader audience.

I understand, you know, I understand. I'm starting to dip my toe into some some film related stuff, and like, I get it. You got to make your money back. And this is gonna this movie obviously costs probably about one thousand times with theorismal film costs actually maybe more, who knows, But you know, it's and it's also going to be a generations I mean, Jackie, your generations. Uh, this is hairspray.

This is their hairspray, you know. And so I might I'm a school teacher by day, and so I might ask my kids what they think about hairspray, and I would guess a decent decent portion of them would so would know this film and probably almost none would know the other, which stattens me. But hopefully they have long lives to live and they can go explore on their own. And so it is it being more accessible in telling the stories. Like you said, it is prescient these days with the racial all the racial uprising stuff and not uprising, but the racial tension in the film and the protests and you know, all that sort of thing.

It's still packs a punch, you know, the story, the basic outlet of the story still packs a punch, no matter which version you're watching. And that, for me, I think is the important thing about the musical genre, as it were, because I've spent this month watching a fair amount of different different stuff. I mean watched started the month off with Cats twenty nineteen, which, you know, whatever reason, I decided to start the new year off in the worst way possible, and then we transitioned to Norman jewis AND's Jesus Christ Superstar, and then we watched Oliver and now we're at this, and I think, for me, of the things I've seen this month, this almost and I think more so than a Jesus Christ Superstar.

I mean, like you've mentioned Josh like this, this in a lot of ways is going to be the version of the movie for a lot of people, but I think in a lot and like and that's the thing that Jesus Christ Superstar has never had to contend with. There's no other version. I mean there's stage versions, but there's the Norman Jewis in version and that's it. And like the stage versions are amazing, that's the problem. Like, oh, I mean, have you seen the one they recorded in two thousand?

Is that it is a nightmare. It is scarable, but there's almost unwatchable. The tim mentioned one where he plays Judas is amazing, and it's like it's almost as good, if not better than the recorded like the Norman Jewis and film version. And that's thing. It's like we're now in a kind of it feels like we're at a point in time where they're not even as interested with doing film adaptations of musicals the way they used to as much as just filming the stage production and moving forward with that as the kind of b version that you can see.

So it's not that I'm watching someone interpret it into a movie as much as I'm just seeing a really well choreographed shot stage version, which I mean that's Hamilton, right, I mean, Hamilton's never getting a movie at this point. It is that's the version of Hamilton that you can watch on Disney. Plus, I mean, some things like Wicked are getting film adaptations, and I can kind of understand why given the subject material. But I feel like Hairspray, if it were being made now, I'm not sure that they would turn it into a movie. It would just be a filming of the stage play, which I again like I think for me now takes away some of the quote problems one might be running into with a movie like this, which is your stunt casting people.

People are being again you could say stunt casting for any of this because at the end of the day, almost none of these people are actually singers by talent or trade. There are a couple, and that's the thing. Like I genuinely look at a lot of musical film adaptations as stunt casting as it is. Russell Crow and Ley Miss is stunt casting. Like I mean, he's not a singer by trade, so why anyone would ever put him in a movie version of a musical is only again to move that needle that much more.

Unfortunately that he was the most memorable part of it for men. I mean, I was just looking. I was just looking at the time frames, and it looks like we're we're experiencing the exact same transition here with Mean Girls. Like right now, Mean Girls just came out as a as a as a movie musical. It's been twenty years since the original film.

There was a stage musical in between, and now we've got the musical. They're trying to hide that it's a movie musical, apparently in the most material twice recently, back to back, because there was the color purple right before it. Right, Yeah came out on Christmas and Yeah, two big high end movie musical adaptations of regular narratives, and all the trailers are trying to hide that it's a musical, and Wanka was trying to hide that it was a music. Thank you for pointing that out. I turned Wonka on and I turned it off because I was like, not not because I don't like musicals, but because it opened and I was like, oh god, Timothy Shallomy, Oh no, he's going to sing the whole movie, isn't he?

And again, I love musicals. I have no interest in seeing a Willy Wonka prequel musical film. I thought it was a movie with some music, not a musical, and that's fine, but again they like, why are you hiding it? Like what is their I think the only the only thing that's going to get me through that is if they have some good musical numbers and there, honestly, because otherwise I don't really see the point. It doesn't look like he's playing the same character.

He's way too bright eyed. Why why not advertise the musical part? I mean I went and watched the previous for Hairspray two thousand and seven, and they weren't hiding the fact that it was a musical. It was very obvious that it was a musical. I mean they were showing portions of the musical acts and the music in the trailer.

And now we're in this weird spot where it's like, yeah, like you mentioned, Josh, like Mean Girls is a musical, and I think people went and saw it and didn't realize that, like we're sure I can confirm that. However, like O, the thing is that people clearly aren't against this because like Wanka made a ton of money Mean Girls. I think it has been number one for three weeks in a row. I know, it's January, but still like people are coming out to watch the musicals at least, so why are we hiding them? That's exactly what I'm thinking, Like, if it's a musical in musicals, if the musical didn't sell, they wouldn't spend this much money on making musicals.

So why not advertise it? You know, why not make it clear that that's what you're walking into. Yeah, because otherwise it looks like they're remaking the exact same mean girls, including two of the same cast members in the same role. Yeah. Yeah, it's weird to me.

And it seems like the only people that don't hide that they're making musicals are animated Disney movies or like animated movies like question Mark like a Trolls Like a Trolls is obviously a musical quote unquote, and Wish is obviously a musical quote unquote. Like okay, like what what live action? Like? Since when is live action musical a dirty word? Like some of my favorite movies in the last few years, I mean, uh, Rocketman from a few years ago.

Oh yeah, I adore Rocketman. It's one of my favorite movies. That was what made it work for me was that, like I was afraid they were gonna pull a Bohemian Rhapsody and just do like you know, oh he's performing, but like it was a full on, you know, numbers musical, like they went all out with it. And then speaking of this film of Hairspray again, you've got the greatest Sherman, which is also spectacular, Like they're both yeah, just brilliant, amazing films and the like people people respond to that, so tell them it's there, yeah there. I can't understand this inherent fear the studios have.

I mean, I don't know. I was the one person that saw Dix the Musical in the theater last year though, so I don't know if I could speak to an I'll fall for anything. I was gonna say, like, uh, you know, Matilda the Musical came out and like that like made itself clear that it was the musical version of Matilda, and it was pretty good. But that's because all streaming, so that people weren't going to be trying to get their money back once the movie started. Use the correct terminology dumped on streaming.

I love that term. I mean, we don't we try not to use that anymore. But that movie was dumped on streaming like Jesus Christ. Yeah, because I was really excited about it, and then it came out what a year after I knew they were making it, and then I forgot. I still haven't gotten to watch it well, And I mean thinking back to like the big the kind of the big musicals that have come out in the last couple of years, like Can in the Heights didn't hide the fact that it was a musical, but like, it's also a lind Manuel Miranda thing, So is it as long as it's lind Manuel Miranda, it's okay to say that it's a musical, because you know, they they also dropped it in the middle of twenty twenty one, so I think they thought that they weren't going to make money anyway and figured they could write it off easier that way.

I will say, though, and this is me having seen a lot of his stuff recently, and this might be an unpopular opinion, I was so glad to hear songs that don't sound anything like lin Manuel Miranda in this because like, I've seen a lot of his stuff in the last month, and like all of it just is so like some of it, like Incanto is the most lin Manuel Miranda thing. It hurts like it like it's like it affects me in a way that's hard for me to quantify. Like, man, every song is da da D it's like, oh, please stop, just get me something lyrical that doesn't sound like like poetry jam and like that's fine rhyming scheme. He was, Yeah, I but like what I loved about Hairspray is like it's such of a time and of a place, and the music evokes that time and place so well that it's like it's not it's not trying to be its own thing.

It's really I mean, it is trying to be its own thing, but it's also trying to really live within the world and the time in the space of that time in our country, and those songs reflect it, and they're really good songs that evoke those musical styles. It's not just oh that's you know, that's a lid Manuel Miranda song. They all kind of feel very much of the same piece, which I appreciate. Like I actually really liked the music in this, which I cannot say for a lot of the things I watched this month, if most things like I watched Oliver last week. I couldn't tell you a single song.

I couldn't hum a single tune from that movie. I saw that as a kid several times. I don't remember anything about it. It's fine, but there's no music that like stands out the way that some of the songs in this movie stand out. I mean, some of the songs in this film are really well done.

And again I they're well done in this version, they're well done in the other version. It's just I don't know. I don't know realistically which one the What is the better version if you're trying to get the you're trying to get an endearing version. Is the original version the one you would go with, or do you have to defer to this new one as the endearing one because it's attempting to do it intentionally? Does that make sense?

Yeah, well, there's there's also a third choice that almost nobody seems to remember that I think like twenty sixteen, when they were when it was really popular to do this like once or twice a year on the cable networks, where they did like a live TV version of hair Spray, and it was honestly like incredible, it was. It might have even been better than the movie. It was fantastic and I need to revisit it. But like you've got three completely different versions of the same story out there and they're all really good. Which is very rare.

Is that the version with Ariana Grande, because there is an Ariana Grande like hair Spray live on YouTube that you can like watch a lot of what I think she plays the Amanda Blines character. She might have been, like I did not remember if she was in it. I don't remember that part at all. But I think Jennifer Hudson plays the Queen Latiah. Jennifer Hudson's yeah, that's right.

Yeah, And you get RV Fire scene in the mom role, which is nice. Well, and that's the thing I think for me, I would have preferred more of the casting of people that had done it profet like other places as and again like that's you know, not to harp On Travolta, but like when I do watch the other versions, especially that version, it's like, man, it doesn't stick out as much. But also again, like they they wanted it so badly that that's that they got what they wanted. They got John Truvolta. Yeah, but Harvey Fire Staine's way too good, Like he's he's so good I do.

I mean, like when I watch that version and the clips from that one, I'm like, man, I just wish he had been in that version, And then you got him opposite Chris Walkin and like who cares? Like who cares? Then? I mean, like I get you don't get John Travolta, but like you actually get people that are able to do this and have been doing this on stage. And there is something to be said for that, because again, that original version of Jesus Christ Superstar benefits from having people in it who were in the original stage production, like Karl Anderson and you know Tim Neely, I mean those they worked on the original version of the stage play.

So it's it benefited from having them there. And again, yeah, I think to your point, like some of the other version, the other version I've seen, the live version almost is better than this movie version. But again, what is it. It's just a filmed version of the stage play. It's not a movie version.

Yeah, but sometimes that's all we need, and they're too afraid to even do that, yeah, which is even though we know that a lot of them are professionally filmed just for like the Tony Award screeners and stuff like sell that shit. Yeah, I mean really, and and that brings me back to something like a Cat's twenty nineteen, which is why are you doing this? Because with Hairspray two thousand and seven, I understand again like this is a musical that in eighty eight they adapted it into a film that's gone now to Broadway, and now we're coming back to do the movie, and we're going to do it differently tonally, like with something like Cat's twenty nineteen, they just adapted the musical like they didn't even do but they didn't, but somehow they did everything the wrong way.

That's the fun part. Yeah, that's fair. I mean, you know, And that's the thing I I was worried watching this movie that I that everything with Travolta was going feel that same Cat's Butt Hoole twenty nineteen cut way of like, oh, this is a real gag of a movie. But that's the thing. It's not, thankfully, it's not, you know, thankfully.

But again back to the musical numbers in this film, I mean, I don't for me, I don't think there's one that doesn't isn't successful. I think they all work really well, every single one for the most part, even the numbers that, like, again, if you were to see them on stage, you'd wonder kind of like, well, how is this going to work? Like the protest number I think is really interesting because the way they do it in the movie. I think it's really well done and well shot. But you've got to wonder when they were doing it on stage if they were able to get that same emotion.

But the way they do it in the movie is really It's one of the standout numbers in the film. Yeah, I think, you know, Queen Latifa as the kind of charisma they can pull something like that off. I think that her at the front of a lot of those sequences makes it much more believable and brings the gravitas to the moment required on top of like a good performance for the song. Yeah, and it helps that the movie is smart enough to let her be at the front and not you know, somehow end up putting our little white girl at the front instead, right, because it would have been so easy to do that and that would have been completely missing the point. Yeah, we haven't really mentioned Queen Latifa at all up to this point.

But she's really fantastic in this movie. And I mean I've seen her in several things, but for the most part, the big screen things I've seen her in are this and she's in Chicago, right, I mean, I'm not misremembering that, and like those are the two big roles that I mean, I know her now for this in Chicago, and she's great. I mean, you know, having revisited Chicago this month, Like I mean, obviously solid musical. Don't know if it needed to win the Academy Award, but that's a different story. Solid musical though, And she's fantastic in there, and she's great.

She's really great here. I mean, she's really really good here. Yeah, the character the motormouth madeal character is given a lot more to do in this version, and I think it would have been challenging without someone like Latifa to do it. Yeah, to get this, to get what they needed or what they were expecting out of that character with a different actress would have been tough. Yeah, And I always, I always think about just what a long way she's come, because I feel like people who only know her from you know this last you know ten or twenty years forget like that woman started off as a rapper, like she was hard and tough as hell when she came out and sort of morphed into something, you know, completely different, and she's owned every bit of it, every step of the way.

Like she's incredible. Oh that's like I said, I'm older than you, guys, But the when I was growing up, that's who I know. I knew the Queen Latifa and the Tashiki and the big you know, you know, singing unity that's on g MTV raps in the afternoon when I came home from school. Like, that's that's the Queen Latifa I new. So when she when she went to to start acting, I was, you know, as dismissive as one might expect of someone making that transition.

But you know, she made it work. She's making it work. And I didn't know this, but apparently she is now playing the TV version of The Equalizer, the Denzel Washington adaptation of the original show. Now she's playing the lead in the TV version of that, which yep, she's Louise Okay, Like good for yeah, good for her, Like I, like I said, like having rewatched Chicago this month, like she's great. She's such a welcome presence and like every I don't know, like she just has she has a really she has a really welcoming and I don't know, like just something about her.

I love her as an actor, and I think that she again, like she's also clearly like a humanitarian and she clearly cares about, you know, like doing the right thing and making sure that like the right people are doing the right things and making sure that you know, again, she is in she's in an interesting position, like you both have mentioned in the industry, where she's been able to kind of move within several facets of it. And I mean again, now, if you're just just kind of doing the actor thing as opposed to just the music thing, like that's great, Like good, good for you. It's hard. It's hard to do it for most actors to do the singing thing, let alone the other direction. So yeah, agreed.

I feel like what we haven't really talked about much is that like this movie anchors itself. You know, almost every single scene on the performance of a young totally unknown girl who has to push through pretty much is the anchor of every single minute of this movie. And she also does a damn good job at Yeah, she's great. I was trying to look her up and this is this is really her colleague card, like this is Yeah, she's it looks like she's like a cosmetologist now, which you know, good for her. I know that the main the main, the main story of pretty much everybody who's taken on that role though from uh, you know, the original casting of Rihi Lake onward though, is that everybody who is who has had to play Tracy Turnblatt uh gets cast for that specific look and then they have to do so much dancing they start losing all the weight on set and they said, it's it's just hell to push through that character and then you just get remembered for that one character.

Yeah, I think I think Nicki Bloski's great in this. She her character and the and Ricky's version of the character are fairly similar. I think it's it's pretty obvious that the this this version of the film is just much brighter in general, like brighter visibly, like it's visually mostly during the daytime, it is brighter totally. It is yeah, like it and and and not, you know, in all facets, and she's really lighting up like literally lighting up the stage or lighting up the scream most of the time with with her performance, like the way she comes at this is she's she's all positive vibes all the time. She's super endearing in like a way that later in a way that like this being essentially your first role and like you're you are doing this as someone who has never really done this before, with a bunch of other people who are a lot again like a lot not more quote well trained, but a lot more well known, swimming more experience.

Yeah, and like you, I for me, I think she's the best part of this movie. She's so good. Every time you see her, she's just like you mentioned, Josh, there's like an infectious amount of positivity to her and her smile just I mean every time she smiles, she's smiling. I think in every scene, like I don't know if she's not smiling, like genuinely, she's constantly smiling, and like you said, like constant positive vibes. And I think that's I mean, this version of the movie maybe doesn't need it, but I think it benefits from having that kind of level of positivity to it because it makes it more endearing.

Like it really I think in a lot of ways, Like it's so endearing because Nicki Blonski just is having the time of her life and you can tell. And she's really good too, and she's really talented at singing. I mean, she has to open the film with good Morning Baltimore, and she's really great in that opening number, Like she knocks it out of the park the moment they give her that first chance, and she's really good. I would not have guessed she's the one who has you know, quote the unknown coming into this movie. Yeah, she's She's really fantastic.

And I the one thing that that kind of makes it a little bit unusual is her her constant positivity made it a little bit weird that everyone in the movie seemed to hate her so much, you know, fair like, you know, everyone hates her and all she does is just smile and say nice things about people the whole time. And like she says these things about the people you're not supposed to say nice things about. And this is true, this is true. But also like the it didn't it felt unusual her coming from uh, from the family she came from, you know, with Enna being so down ourselves and you know, in the in the in the original story, you know, Edna Turmlad' is not agoraphobic, Like she doesn't never leave the house.

It's not a big thing. And she's not constantly shoveling food into her into her gullet like she she's like the dinosaur under the flintstone sink in this movie. Like she's oh, never, not never, not shoveling something into her mouth to a point to a degree that is unsettling to me. I'm with you. I'd be one hundred percent with you, Jerry Stiller with the doughnuts, like, yeah, but but that that happens to the result too, that's uh.

Jerry Stiller one of I think only three people in the in the film that was in the original as far as I was able to tell, because he was he was a wilberturn bled in the first film. And then we have John John Waters as the flasher early on, who plays a psychiatrist tried to hypnotize or not and a petty in the first film. And then you know Ricky Lake kind of filling up for a hot second as a judge at the end of the film. But yeah, it's just they they took such they took that Edna character such weird places in this movie that just it didn't it didn't didn't jive for me. But thankfully, thankfully Nikki was there to to pull it out when it started to get a little bit too weird with with her, you know, her just genuine positivity the whole time.

I'm so glad you mentioned the food thing because it like I get it, Like I get that she's a bigger woman, but I would actively watch her game. Yeah we're not watching the whale here. Yeah, it's like it's like, oh look food, and it's like, oh look food. And it's like, oh look food, and it's like, Okay, one time, I get it, Like one time you want to do it flying like I will give you the one if you want to do it. But three or four or five or however many times this movie does it because at some point I stopped counting.

It's just why, Like, what is what further comedy can be mine from this? Here? We understand she's a bigger woman, but again, it's not a woman. It's a guy. It's like if it's a guy in a suit, like that's the thing.

It's like not even a woman, it's a guy in a suit, like, come on, movie sound, I think you're actually getting right down to it. I think Travalda just wanted a snack break. Yeah, I feel like she's She's not a like Scooby Doo in the in the film, and then every every time he's like, ooh, a sandwich. Then he makes a sandwich that Saint Fete tall and squashes it and shoves it in his mouth. It's like every time she walks in her room, there's magically a spread of gite of food everywhere, and she just has to attack it.

It's it's just a really weird character choice, you know, for I don't know, like you said, I don't know if this was something that John Travolta walked in was like, you know what what Edna should do? Edna should always be eating, and the writers are like, sure, whatever, You're drowns MultiMate. I could just see him coming into the into the meeting. Hey, you guys know, uh, you see those Oceans eleven movies. Brad Pitt, He's got that thing where's always eating something.

I think I'm gonna do that. Yeah, like wild It's it's it's it's again like the movie is is funny and it's endearing, but like it's not that kind of funny that's like a that's like a low I'm not gonna say like low brow, but like I mean, I guess that would probably be the closest thing, is like low hanging fruit or like the lowest of low brow humors, like fatty eat food. That funny. It's like a tantamount in to like fat person fall down and we all laugh, like come the fuck on. Like it is a strong reminder that despite all the positive merits of this movie, it is still a movie from the director of Bringing Down the House A Queen defa joint.

Yeah, oh god, yeah. I mean, you know, I haven't seen that in about twenty years, but I don't remember it having the same level of sensitivity with the subject better than this does. I mean, I believe at one point in that movie Steve Martin is wearing a do rag. I at the very least, I'm almost positive that his entire speech changes as well. Just not go back and find out, but one of these days and I'm gonna get bored, and I know I'm going to find out.

I mean, it's got Kimberly J. Brown and Missy Pile in it. So you know, what's I mean, Kimberly J. Brown in a movie that's not Halloween Town. What's that all about?

Yeah, I mean that's the thing. I feel like that is and we kind of we haven't really mentioned it, but I you know, I mentioned it at the opening, Like I think there is a little bit of the Adam Shankman ness of this which is like that early like the late to mid two thousands, like that kind of hobbedy because it's not just this movie like go I don't know if anybody's gone and watched something like a forty year old Vergein in the last couple of years, but I have it has not aged well and it came out around the same time that this movie did, and it had those same kind of again like comedy beats that you know, they might they might play now, but they're probably not gonna play five to ten years from now, and they don't and they again like it's okay to go all in at the time, but they're just not gonna play.

And that is the part of this movie that for me, it's like, you know, that's just that that's low there's low brow, even for this and yeah, like you said, Adam Shankman's Bringing Down the House and A Walk to Remember. I mean again, I don't hold those in high regard, but this is really good. And I know Pacifier Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, or Cheaper by the Dozen two you know another, or Adam Sandler's Bedtime Stories. You know again the point where I was like, oh see, Martin's done making movies for me? Got it?

Yeah? Well, and I will say, Adam Shankman has directed another musical and I feel like it it bears mentioning because I feel like it similarly has a stunt casting problem, that being twenty twelve's Rock of Ages featuring Tom Cruise, which inexplicably is a thing that you can watch and it feels in alike the problems with that movie similar to this movie in terms of, like, there is one performance in this movie that sticks out like a fucking sore thumb, and anytime they're on screen, I kind of wish they weren't Travolta in this movie and Tom Cruise in that movie. And they're both directed by Adam Shankman. That's all I'm saying. I have not gotten around to watching that one.

I'm very like I'm weirdly specific with like jukebox musicals and which ones do and don't work for me, and that didn't look like it was gonna work for me. But I know I'm gonna have to sit through it for Paul Gimlauti one of these days, so I'll get there. But I've watched it just I think about a year and a half ago or so, I was very drunk and I was I had just watched something else, and first I can't remember there was a reason that I watched it, something that inspired me to watch it, and yeah, it's there is There is nothing on this planet that's going to make me believe Tom Cruise as a rock and roll singer, Like that is just not what you see when you see that guy. You can do whatever you want to him, but he's always just gonna be Tom Cruise, and it it.

I have. I spent most of my life deep in a punk rock hole and avoiding popular music and hating popular music. And as I've aged, I've realized I don't have to do that anymore. Like if I'd like something, it's okay. And so I've started going back to some of the music from Rock of Ages, you know this, you know the rock ballads from the eighties and stuff like that.

And I'm like, that's not bad, Like it's catchy. I can do catchy. You know, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna go to a stadium, but and watch these bands live. But if I'm in my car with myself, I'll sing along, right And and watching that movie just ruined them. It just ruined Yeah, yeah, had me going there for a moment, Josh, Like me going there for a moment, like I grew up, you know, loving that stuff, and then like I would literally pay you money to keep me from having to hear Russell Brand trying to interpret one of those songs.

Oh yeah, miserable right, well, hey, that's I mean that now is the worst aged. Part of that entirement is that it has Russell Brand in it, which you know, just give it to some time and who knows, well it also has how like Baldwin and so again double has aged poorly and you know, I to your point, Josh, like, uh, it's it kind of is the worst versions of all of those songs. Like in a lot of ways, like it's those are good songs on their own, like I'm with you, like anyone who's like, oh, journey sucks, it's like really, like don't stop believing is a great song, like you said, sing along to in the shower in the car. There's a reason everybody knows it for fuck's sake, just like keep it out of my fucking karaoke bar.

I'm tired of it. Yeah, well, and I agree with you Jackie as well, like the idea of jukebox musicals, like I'm not really for me, Like I like musicals, but jukebox musicals are not. I don't need to hear like a version of a song I can just listen to it doesn't Sometimes it's a motivator, but for the most part, I'm like, eh, it's you know, it's a like a lesser version of the actual version of the song. Often like does it feel like it's a gimmick or no? Right are they?

Like I mean, my favorite movie of all time is technically a jukebox music well, and that's all that jazz, but you don't think about it as being that because most of the numbers are actual, you know, show tunes. They're diegetic to the plot, like it makes sense, whereas Brock of Ages. It's just like, what are the biggest songs of the eighties? How can we you know ruin them? Yeah, pretty much.

I mean I think the best the best version of a film like that. It's not a jukebox musical exactly, but the best version of a film like that. We are you want to acknowledge those songs, but that also not ruin those songs is something like Singstreet, Sain Street. You know is it? It shows you the music that has inspired this group, and then has the group play music that is very similar to the to the music that's inspiring it, and the things fit together very nicely like Sin Street.

I love. Also, that's one of my favorite films. I can watch it any day. It's my I'm in a bad mood, I need to get out of it movie is that one? And you know it's it's it can be done well.

It's just Rock of Ages didn't do it well. The big ones. The big ones aren't the big ones that have been turned into movies aren't great because I mean, again, we didn't cover it this month. But it's one that I feel like has been a punching bag for me specifically for a while, which is. Here's Brosnan's performance in the filmed version of Mama Mia, which is Ladies and Gentlemen.

It is exactly what you think it is. Here's Brosnan for trying. Yeah, yeahen his best and I love SOS but I don't need to hear Pierce Brosnan singing it. I just like him like kind of yelling the words to the song. Is you're huffing through that my guess.

But this is the moment of the show, since we're, you know, since we're kind of just talking about musicals broadly, where I will kick it to both of you, Josh, Josh first and then Jackie second. Josh, what is kind of for you some musicals that you would suggest people check out that you're maybe a fan of, not maybe your favorite one, because I don't want to put you on the spot like that, but you know, some that are worth in your opinion checking out, And you know, I mean, you could say Indian movies, but that might be cheating I you know, I could. I'll throw one out there because one that's it was very popular at the time is dev Dust from two thousand. There have been very quite a few versions of dev Does it's a very famous novel, but that particular version was Shara Khan and Madrid Dischett and Ashwar Ray is just exceptional.

The songs propel the story. The story is very overwrought melodrama, which is what I want when I'm going into a film like that. It's it's it's exceptionally well made. You get to watch Charki kon Cry, which, if you're about it, it's a it's an experience that is it's hard to beat. So that's one I mentioned a couple of my favorite recent ones already with The Greatest Showman is another one I could watch pretty much anytime.

I remember the things that I grew up watching, like My Fair Lady. I Love my Fair Lady, blesses us with an intermission, even so, the three hour movie feels a little bit less long, you know those are. And then there's there's the weirdo musicals like Phantom of the Paradise is one of my favorites on my list. We just are Alamo here in Dallas, just in a secret screening that was The Apple, which is wild and good in a way that that I really enjoy in spite of it, In spite of itself, So yeah, I could, I could go on and on and on. But those are some some that really.

I mean, Fount of the Paradise is one that I I own so many copies of that just because like, oh, this one has artworked, it's cool, and this one has that that's cool, and I just I just want to watch it all the time until I die. I'm with you. Phantom of the Paradise one of those movies where I saw it and I have not stopped watching it. I feel like I watch it a couple times every year, and I'm like, you know, it's kind of a perfect movie, and I have no problem admitting it's probably my favorite Brian de Palma movie, which he's got a lot of stuff that's great, but I think that's like, that's it. That's the one I go back to more often than any of them.

Yeah, what about you, Jackie. Yeah, I mean we're kind of hitting all the bases here. I already mentioned all that Jazz, which I think everybody should watch as long as they're not afraid of a wildly direct, you know, view of mortality. Phantom of the Paradise is literally probably my second favorite movie. Like, that's another one I've been watching my whole life, and it never like it only gets better.

I only noticed more things every single time. Like Paul Williams was, you know, easily the best songwriter of the seventies. Like everything he does performance in that movie is incredible. Every performance is incredible. Every piece of that movie is magnificent, and I can't get tired of talking about it either.

Similarly, also, you know a failed a Fox musical release about the showbiz industry that nobody likes to talk about. I love Shock Treatment, Ah, I like it. I like it more than Rocky Horror at this point in my life. I think the songs are better, and I think that it completely predicted the entire reality television cycle about thirty years before it became a real thing. I love that movie.

I love Jessica Harper in particular in it. I think it's so much fun. It's not the classic the Rocky Horror is, but I think it's just such a weird, fascinating thing, and I feel like people are too harsh on it, just because Richard O'Brien is the first one to push it up against the wall, and I think it deserves better from that. Oh man, I had a couple more in mind we already mentioned Jesus Christ Superstar, which I just think is an immense spectacle. I think Carl Anderson's performance in that is unbelievable.

I think Ted Neely's Gets So Many performance is heart wrenching, Like you don't have to be religious to feel emotion from that version of that story because the actors are so goddamn good that that's all that matters. I love that. Who's Tommy Tommy Is? That was another one that I grew up watching, probably way too young. And on a more fun I'm finding that people still don't know Trey Parker's first movie, Cannibal the Musical, which is a much sweeter, much more earnest movie than most everything he made after that.

And it's it's based, you know, on facts technically about these guys that go into the Colorado Rockies and then end up, you know, eating except for one of them, who you know, they all assume murdered everybody and did it. But it's it's it's a weirdly like, sweet, good natured story about a bunch of dumb guys that should have just stayed a hole. And I love it so much. And this and the sun is as warm as a baked potato. Everybody knows that it's I love Cannibal Musical as well, I think for me.

Uh, I mean, y'all have covered a lot of them, and I've talked about a fair amount of them this month, but I will mention Repo the Genetic Opera. I am one of those people that likes it. I know, Oh I was. I wasn't on the ground floor. Like while when they were doing the road show premiere with the one print of the movie the lions Gate would let them have.

It was a it's it's it's fine. I like it. I understand the problems, and I know that there are many and including a get a lot of people who have no right singing singing opera for fuck's sake. Yeah, but man, Paul Sorvino levels that shit. Yeah, I mean again, I like it.

But I'm not gonna say like everything about it is you know, is even keeled tenacious ty of the Picadestiny is another and another kind of Again, we're kind of talking about things that don't necessarily get all the love. That for me is something that I love immensely. Yeah, I could watch that every day and also like the HBO TV show that nobody talks about the perceive of it. If you've never seen this SENACIUSDHBO series, it's only three episodes and it's a very good lead into that movie. It is hysterical, agreed.

I also really like Hedwig and the Angry Inch, which we've talked about I think we talked about last year or the year before. So, I mean, we've covered a lot of stuff on the show already that that I enjoy it, and y'all mentioned some other great ones. But there's so I mean, there's so many things that again, like you know, again, I feel like musicals. Some of them they just, you know, you just resonate with them and they just stick with you. And I mean, especially growing up in the nineties, being inundated with so many musicals all the time in the form of Disney's animated stuff, it was almost impossible to not be somewhat kind of indoctrinated into the world of musicals just through Disney's animated stuff.

And then so many of us have kind of continued beyond that to watch other things. But I mean, I I mean, some of those you know, nineties Disney's musicals like, I mean, The Beast still pretty good. I mean, you know, still a good movie and has great music, and again, is it a Disney animated movie. Sure, but so is The Lion King. And I know a lot of people will cite The Lion King is something that's very important to them in terms of Disney or in terms of the music, and obviously, I mean for a lot of reasons it is.

But that's I kind of don't mention those now, like more than just in passing, because it's kind of its own thing in a lot of ways, Like I wouldn't want to mention Disney movies and like live action musicals, even though they're now trying to have their fucking cake and eat it too, which is such a such a drag because those those live action Disney movies haven't been great across the board, which is kind of the like why why make them? Why? I mean why make them for the money? But like, why why are we doing this thing again, guys? Because like, you have a great version of The Lion King, I don't need to see a CGI version and I don't think anybody did apparently, Yeah, and when it's almost the exact same thing, they changed very little, except for letting Beyonce like really ham it up over the soundtrack at one point in the movie that was not in the original.

Yeah, Like that was the weirdest thing is that I think when like Sima's like returning home at the end of the movie, you just hear Beyonce like wailing in the background. I'm like that that doesn't seem to fit. But I guess I would also probably be remiss because I've mentioned it before us. I'm a huge fan of Sweeney Todd. Speaking of things we're saying people should probably some of the people singing maybe aren't great at singing.

And then I have a very soft spot in my heart for Across the Universe. Uh, that one. I like a lot of the scenes as a whole. I don't know if it works for me. Yeah, there are there are so many incredible moments in that movie that it's I'm glad it exists.

Yeah, and a lot of the Beatles related musicals really like even Sergeant Bepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. People hate that movie, but there's still some really fun, weird stuff in there. Yeah. So I also I forgot the one that like kind of radicalized me in high school, and I didn't realize it for another fifteen years. The Reef from Adnes Musical, That thing is incredible if you've never seen it.

It is so dark and weird and subversive and pointed and sharp and angry in the funniest way. And it is just beautifully made and has John Casier in it. Yeah, John Cassier's in it. Steven Weber is incredible in it. Alan comming as a narrator in for meates pretty much every scene, like it's just oh, it's a blast.

Kristen Bell before Frozen, Yeah, we yea Frozen. I mean, why haven't none of us mentioned that? What a shame. Yeah, there's a good reason, because as a musical, as a as a theater kid that was in high school in the mid two thousands thinking about how a denonmon Zelle makes me want to die, it's fair, that's fair. And since you mentioned when Josh I will mention DDLJ, I think for me has oh yeah, yeah, I mean I don't know, maybe that's like the obvious answer, but I love every I think I love every single musical performance in that movie.

And shah ru Khan and Codjole together is just that is that for me, that's the combination for me, and like, I don't know, I saw it. It was one of those things I saw early on in my Indian film experience that like it just has stuck with me. And Shira Khan's face performing rup Jaw is just everything about that scene, like it's probably one of my favorite musical numbers of all time, like just that entire scene. And but again, you know, it's an Indian movie three and a half hours long, so you know, you gotta sit and you gotta be with it. And I mean, I love that movie and I'm advocating for it, but you know, Indian you just say what you're getting to.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So So Josh final thoughts on Hairspray two thousand and seven. It's fine. For me, it is fine. I thought that the musical performances, the staging was good for the most part.

I thought that, you know, once you know everything that every moment Nicki Bloonski's in is fantastic. Like we talked about how good Queen Latifa is. I really really enjoyed James Marsin's performance. He's only there and in little bits and pieces, but he's he's doing work. Every time he's on screen, you know, he's playing that character.

I meant to mention like, this was the first movie where I actually remember enjoying James Marsden, because before this, all I thought of him as was Cyclops, and I was like, Oh, Cyclops sucks. That dude, it's boring. And then like when he put it on, he throws on that goofy ass smile in this and just goes for it, and I'm like, there's a different guy hiding in that in that spandex that we hear leather, I guess that we haven't been able to see before, and I like that guy way more. Yeah, I mean, overall, I think it's it's a perfectly acceptable film for younger for a younger audience, I think, not only younger than me, because it's just it's I have, I have, I have baggage coming to this film, which I understand, but just it's a it's an easier place for younger viewers to have an entry point to the story and to the politics involved and all that kind of stuff.

So it's it's a lot it's a lot more kid friendly, which is, you know, not a bad thing at all. I mean, hell, John Waters has been threatening to make a kid's children's movie for twenty years. If this is all we get, I guess it could be worse. Jackie, what about you? Like I said, I, you know, I love it.

I had some I had concerns going back into it. It had been a while since I had watched it, and the political climate changing from how you know, how it was in two thousand and seven. I was curious if the level of softness it had with the material wasn't going to wasn't going to work like we've had. You know, we've had a lot of movies that that in their time, like they they told a story to teach Grandma not to be racist, like movies like The Help and stuff that At this point, I feel like we don't need anymore. And I was glad that this still held up because it, for one thing, it actually came from, you know, John Waters's own childhood histories, retelling stories of things that you know, more or less really happened.

And it's it's not trying to to preach to you know, just the white people, like hey, you know, they're they're they're human beings. Like it's just playing it out the way it played out with a character who didn't need to learn that black people were humans because she loved them right from the start, And I kind of feel like that makes all the difference compared to a lot of those other movies. Yeah, I I one hundred percent agree with you, and that I mean, again, that's the that I think is what Nicki Blonski brings to this is just that like, you're just a good person kind of like from the start, and you're sitting on top of that garbage truck riding into school and you're just so adorable and it just kind of goes from there, and like she is just she's really great, and she really is the grounding performance of this movie.

And you know, I wish she was in more stuff, frankly, like because again, like I feel like her infectious positivity could have been used other places as well. But she also clearly has I feel like, some great acting chops and she can sing too, which is also great. So yeah, it was a starmaking performance that didn't end up making a star, if only because they kept talking about making a sequel for years and kept falling through. She might have had a shot if that had happened. Yeah, but oh well but yeah, and I do.

I do also love though that Yeah, this is this is one of those stories that you can show to a kid and they'll get it and they won't they won't get uncomfortable. It's not going to be too heavy too early on. It doesn't feature somebody you know, baking human shit into a pie. So we can actually still, you know, give a kid that story and have it be you know, soft then in the ways it needs to be, and it Yeah, it actually works. Yeah, I agree, and again I had I had a good time with it.

But I also do kind of lean towards what you said, Josh, which is it's it like it's good. Well, I remember it at the end of the year when I think about all the things I've watched this year, I don't know, you know, sometimes that for me is kind of the bar anymore. Is like did it stand out for me? Is like, well, it's not necessarily a new movie, but it was a new watch for me, and that was a standout. And I don't know, but I mean, I know right now it was one of the best things I watched this month.

I mean, again, some of the stuff I watched this month was pretty rancid Cats twenty nineteen, But I mean not everything I watched this month was bad. I mean Jesus Christ Superstar all over, great movies, Academy Award winning movies even so, but I enjoyed this one the most. And again I think just some of the topicality and also the music is the music is really great. Some of the performance stuff is neither here nor there, but doesn't get in the way too too much. So on that note, we will take a break, play some ads and play a preview for the first Culture Cast of February from weirding Way Media, Cambridge, and with Shan is a podcast about two guys, obsessions, passions and hobbies.

Those two guys are Mark Bigley, host of Wickup hevy Recollections of Horror, and Ronald Zuriggian, host of the Skelevator YouTube channel. Each month, we talk about the toys, comics, movies, books, TV shows and other cultural phenomena that captured our imaginations and helped shape who we are today, from Masters of the Universe to Saturday Night Live, Star Wars, to Harry Houdini, the Muppets to The Elephant Man. Ronnie and Mark dive deep into the recesses of their minds to pull out treasured memories of things lost but never forgotten. Join us on the first Tuesday of each month over at weirdingwaymedia dot com or wherever you listen to podcasts. Join me Jamie Benning on the Filmmentaries podcast, particularly if you enjoy story like designer Nilo Rhodis Jamiro convincing George Lucas to push him around to help gain the support of his crew on the Ailing Howard the duck Plam, The door opens to George, everybody gas.

George makes a bee line to me. I'm literally back against the wall or here. Puppeteer Tim Rose's emotional story behind that iconic Admiral Acbar shot in Return of the Jedi. I believe it or something to be proud of, but not the Cellburg or how Star was. Editor Paul Hirsch tackled cutting so many successful films.

The thing that I learned from working with the Parliament is that tension depends on a clock. You need to have the sense that time is running out. Maybe Oscar winning sound designer Mark Mangini's insightful chat about his work on Blade Runner twenty forty nine, not a single sound from the original Blade Runner in the new film, A great deal of inspiration. That's the film you Menary's podcast with me Jamie Benning. Hello, Twisted Humans.

Do you find yourself wanting to know more about the latest murder, conspiracy, cult or haunting, then this is the podcast for you. In nineteen fifty two, there was a record high of UFOs reported fifteen hundred sightings. There has been evidence of human sacrifice, double worship, and it is haunted by more spirits than can be counted. A family of two adults and two kids reportedly saw a giant flying thing with glowing red eyes. And meanwhile, the family's nanny that helped Veronica to care for her and Lucian's children, was found bludgeoned to death in the basement of their family home.

I'm Militia and I'm Sierra, and this is twisted and uncorked. Well, if you want to seeing out, seeing out, and if you want to be free, be free, that He may bless and deliver all souls and the faithful departed. Bring him to the bliss of heaven and eternal peace. Oh Lord, grant him forgiveness for all his sins, the hope of your grace, you who live and reign forever. And she took my car and Harold, try something new each day.

After all, we're given life to find it out. It doesn't last forever. Oh, it's all right, it's oget it, Harold, mart Did I tell you how'll be eighty on Saturday? This is definitely in new experience and must smell mm all around us living things? What sense in borders and nations?

And patriotism above morality? Take a chance, get heard even at play as well as you can't. Hm, I haven't lived, I've tied it, I've died a few times. Oh, Harold, everyone has the right to make an odes out of themselves. Kind let the world judge you too much.

Do you have any friends? Maybe one? Would you care to talk about this friend now commingling with sagging breasts? Absolutely no? Now are you ready, Harold?

Should women run for president of the United States? Why not? Absolutely yes? Is it difficult for you to accept criticism? Oh no?

Do you believe in capital punishment for murder? Absolutely yes? War is not all black? Why hell? World War two gave us the ballpoint?

Then that's common knowledge. Who is where's my old Lady? I'll be gone by midnight. Why oh, it's sorry, it's organic. It's right on the first Culture cast of February.

I'm finally talking about a movie that I have only heard about, never seen, but I am very excited to watch it. That is Harold and Maud I know only broad strokes. I'm excited to watch it, and I like Bud Court. Who doesn't? So yeah, I will be joined by Father Malone and Adam Quarter's Adam Long And until then, I guess I'll ask, Josh, do you want me to give you an opportunity to plug things that you work on?

Sure? Oh yeah, Josh? Where can people find you on the internet to find the things that you work on? You can find me personally on Twitter at Hateful Josh. You can find my new, very new company, Potenta Films, on Twitter and Instagram.

We worked on Triple R a couple of years ago in getting that film back out into theaters, and I've got some projects lined up. I'm not ready to announce yet, but if you follow, you'll find out first on those social media platforms. And you, Jackie, you know I don't have a whole lot going on I, you know, working with movies here in Austin. If you're in the area, come find me. I'm not going to be that hard to locate otherwise.

I mean, right now, all I really do is that I update everything I watch on Letterboxed. No matter how many times I watch something, Sometimes you'll get a review. Sometimes you'll get a very succinct pinpoint of exactly what my life is like at that time that vaguely relates to a movie. And usually I have a lot of fun with that. Other than that, there's not a whole lot going on at all, but that's fun.

Yeah, I guess Letterboxed also for me. You'll you can see how I've somehow managed to immerse myself in Lifetime movies the last month. It's a lot, man, what's going on with that? You know what? I don't I signed up to the Lifetime Movie Club.

I don't know why, but now it's one of my most frequently used streaming platforms. I've committed myself to watching eat all of Doug Campbell's films by the end of the year. Who, if you don't know, made Deadly Mile High Club, Being Made, Fatal Fashion, He's made just I think forty eight features. I'm around twenty right now, just this month, so looking January, it's only January. Yeah, are those for some?

Are those like the like lifetime like they'll be kind of lifetime movies? Are they like the murdery ones? Are they like the sexy ones? Most of them are a little bit of everything. The good ones.

People get murdered and have sex, sometimes in very close proximity to each other. I was gonna say which order. You never know? You do tend to after after watching them in quick succession, you start to rose patterns very quickly. But you know what they're all because they're TV movies.

They're all an hour and twenty six minutes long. So even if they're bad, they're over quickly. Yeah, Hey, that's it's ever a never a bad thing. So and hey, you're putting in the good work. You're like watching them unironic or I guess you're watching them ironically and unironically so little.

I guess maybe a little bit genuine affection for them. I have a jaculine infection for them. I don't have time for irony. I'm too busy. That's fair, Hey, that's fair.

As for me, you can find all the things that I work on, which are primarily at the moment audio based at Weirdingwaymedia dot com, where you could find this show so many other shows, including The Feminine Critique, the Projection Booth, Eighties TV Ladies, Bollywood Cinema Club, all the fun things that I work on or produce, or you know, just give an opportunity in a place to a host. So yeah, Weirdingwaymedia dot com, Patreon dot com slash culture cast is where you can go to give financially to the show five, ten, twenty, and fifty. At the ten dollars level, you get access to ranking on Bond, which Richard had, Mike White and I do together where we talk about one Bond movie a month, which is a lot of fun and if that's something you're into, ten dollars a month is all it takes to get access to that, either on my Patreon or the Projection Booth.

So that's all the fun housekeeping stuff. Josh, thank you so much for joining me for the first time. This was good, even if it was a surprise that it was the two thousand and seven one. I'm always up for a new adventure, so so this was great. Thank you.

That's what I like to hear. I like that kind of enthusiasm. Thankfully, and and and Jackie as well, thank you for rejoining the show and then coming back after a extended absence to talk about a movie that you enjoyed out of the box. Yeah, yeah, it was. It was nice to be I mean, it was just nice to be back.

But and to be, you know, the experienced one here. I came in knowing exactly what I thought already. I just reconfirm it, right And yeah, and as always, we'll catch you on the next episode. You laugh.