Holy Motors

We're ready for what. I do not know, however, is the problem, Because Mike, this feels like the kind of movie that you would have me come on your show to watch. Yeah, no, you're you're kind of right and like not like not in a derogatory way, not as a pejorative, but like it is very elevated and very much something that people in the States definitely did not see for almost every reason imaginable. I feel like it's amazing to see how many awards have got for right, like all over the place right, and some of the people involved with this are not unknown to Western audiences. Oh yeah, definitely right.

Yeah, it's but it is a weird movie, and it's probably up there with some of the strangest things that we've had on this show in a while. On this episode of the Culture Cast, I am still your host, Kristashie, much to the chagrin of many, and I'm joined by my good friend all the way from the Projection Booth podcast you heard him and I recently reading some Raiders of the Lost Art transcripts where three weird old white men sat in a room and talked about teenagers having sex with adults. You're a friend and mine all the way from the projection booth. Mike White, Yeah, all the way here, I blew all the way and boy am right arms tired and flapping for a while, as they would say. And on this episode of the Culture Cast, we are still we are.

We are still observing Jess Bier July craisebe, and we are continuing to watch surrealism films, films that feature surrealism front and center. And boy, doesn't this film we're gonna be talking about Leo carras twenty twelves Holy Motors. So the film is directed and written by Leo Carr and stars Deny Lavant as mister Oscar, a man who, in a Louis spoon Well inspired way, goes through a lot of vignettes in his day, because hey, surrealism doesn't need a plot, it just needs a thinly veiled wrap around. Mike, I know neither one of us had seen this, and we're going to get into what the movie is. I mean, I just kind of let it out of the bag.

There's not much of a plot. It is a lot of vignette style stuff. But I want to know, what did you think of watching Holy Motors? Yeah? I had been wanting to watch this for a long time.

Luckily, Wow, I was gonna say I knew nothing about the movie coming in, But I still don't really know that much about the movie right now. But I do have to say I really enjoyed this. This was a lot of fun for me. And yeah, this seems like something that I would tackle on the projection booth and say, Okay, let's try to figure out what the hell's going in this movie. So there's a lot of clues and theories and I was even watching YouTube videos about it today and I'm really not sure yet what I think about this, but I know I had a good time watching it.

Yeah, no, I'm I'm with you. You know what's really funny, as you mentioned it before we started recording, or I guess you mentioned it at the top of the episode, like how many awards this one? And like, yeah, you scroll to the bottom of that Wikipedia page and it's like it made the best list in twenty twelve. I'm like most everybody who is considered a film critic, like in text, I mean mostly in text, and like you know, a V club even digital and stuff. Yeah, how I had never seen this.

How I had really never heard of it. I guess kind of surprised me because it's not a movie that's up my alley, as it were, but it's definitely not unwelcome. I didn't know what to expect going into it again, the plot being just a guy gets in a car and he goes through Paris and he has these vignette style adventures throughout Paris. Like I'm I'm all for that in a lot of ways. I mean, the discrete charm of the Bourgeoisie was a lot of fun because it's kind of similarly the same same thing, a lot of just kind of small stories held together by the fanciful flights that the director is taking us on.

And that felt like there's like flights of fancy here, and there's also weird, weird, I mean, surrealist shit going on in droves. But ultimately I'm with you, like I had a good time watching it, But what I watched I do not really know. Like it's wild. It's a wild movie. That is just it deserves a rewatch more than the two than I did.

Like it's it's a three or four time watch, and you could probably just watch one vignette pack take the one vignette and watch the ten minute vignette on its own and then not worry about the rest of them. For me, it really feels like an exploration of roles and acting, and even if we were to try to strip away what the plot might be, overall we have those vignettes, and each one of those vignettes is so strongly acted and so well put together that there are a lot of times where it was like, Okay, this is this is the opening to a movie, this is the middle scene of a movie, this is the end of a movie. I could watch this entire thing. This this one vignette could be an entire film. And I kept saying that quite a few times throughout this whole thing.

I mean, even the musical interlude while ludes, but the first musical interlude with the accordion playing, Okay, if there's a musical that has that number in it, please sign me up. I would like to see that entire musical, please totally. I am one with you like And that, for me is the sign of a good film that's told, a story that's told this way, and a film that's put together that this the way that this one is, and you know it goes back to something that I think about when I think about this kind of storytelling. And again it's it's kind of a crass comparison, but the Simpsons when they did those you know, stories about Springfield. I mean, it's not a coincidence that steamed Hams became so popular because it is kind of a microcosm of the show in a lot of ways, and each vignette in this movie is kind of a microcosm unto itself, like you mentioned, of what the movie is talking about, because this is I mean, now that I know and now that we both, like you said, are on the same page of it's a movie about movies and actors and making movies.

Like of course it was so lauded by the industry. Of course we love this movie. Remember when the artist won the Oscar for Best Picture. Folks like you know what, Hollywood and the industry loves a good movie about making movies. That's why Lala Land was as popular as it was.

But I would contend that this is better than all those movies because it just it approaches it in such a very matter of fact way, in a way that only a French director could really like, just so matter of factly confronting what so many people do for a living. But yet if you really sit down and think about it, is quite possibly the most bizarre fucking profession on the planet. Yeah, just playing make believe your entire profession for money for money. But then the different ways that people approach it. You know, everybody that I talked to that is an actor has a different way of going about it.

It's never the same thing twice. And you know me the way that I always start off my interviews. All right, how'd you get into the business, What was your motivation? How did you decide to do this? Everybody's coming at it from different places.

Though oddly it feels like there's a generation of male actors that the reason they got into acting was trying to impress a girl, right, and then they said, oh, I really like being applauded, and it's kind of a drug, and they really get off on applause. And there's no applause in this movie that I can remember. I mean, the audience is asleep or dead depending on who you ask. There's no applause in this one. No, And and there is a point where they where Oscar is like, you know, I'm still I'm not sure I've gotten used to it when I can't see the camera right And it's like that again, those those like small moments speak volumes as to what we're really talking about here and what that?

What that character of Oscar? And what Danny Lavant? Just what I mean? We do Barney Miller together? What a face?

Where was this guy in the seventies? Throw him into the twelve Precinct, folks. He has a face for Barney Miller. He just looks the part. He reminded me a little of is it Dominic Pinon, the guy from delic Tessen?

And yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, just a little bit with the lines and everything. But my god, yeah, this the transformations that he can go through, and you have to ask yourself, this is the same guy? Is this really the same guy? And it's it took me so long to realize how often he dies in these scenarios too, And I was trying to think, do all of them end with him dying? I don't think so, but there sure are a lot of them that have him in his last moments.

Yeah, there's a there. I think it's like it's like two or three in a row where he dies I mean it opens kind of It opens very kind of strangely, because, yeah, we have a guy unlocking a door and then going into a movie theater, which I guess is the framing device there for of the movie. So someone's watching this the way we're watching it. But then yeah, we have Danny Lavant get into a car and then he becomes a beggar woman like and it's and he's like talking about how he needs to be protected while doing it, like and again like what he's like a rich person I guess unless that's another role, folks. But yeah, like it opens very kind of just like slowly with him being a beggar woman, but by like the halfway point of the movie, he's stabbing himself in the neck a version of himself in the neck, or shooting a guy in the head in broad daylight, I mean a guy playing him at himself in broad daylight.

Like it's yeah, and I think it's like those there are those three in a row where he dies. It's very bizarre. Yeah, and yeah, I'm not sure if we ever see the real him. You know, I don't know if that one at the beginning is real because when we're at the end it feels like, well, that could be his real life, but we know that's an assignment, and it feels like the previous one, the one that we started with, was probably an assignment as well, right because at the end of the movie, he's on assignment again. Right.

Yeah, Even the thing that feels like it's not an assignment is an assignment because they say, I think he's going to play nine roles or have these nine appointments. That's what it is. And then the one where the Limo rashes and he ends up seeing his lost love played by inexplicably but beautifully by Kylie Minogue. Um, I just can't get her out of my head, you know. Nice, that's that's one of his appointments.

So there's nothing happens to dance about that. In that one, they end up dead. Well, and you mentioned it, You mentioned like we never know who the real hymn is and like I think, obviously like Leo Carro or Leo Kral, Like that's the that's the point here, Like we don't you know if you're in if you're in that industry, do you ever know who you really are? Like even when you go home, are you putting on a mask and taking on a role of the husband at home like and I mean again, like you could. I mean, it can be equated directly to the entertainment industry, but you can also equate it more holistically to humanity as a whole and the faces that we wear on a daily basis, and the emotions and the feelings that we go through.

But I know that I do not live in a house with chimps, I'll tell you that much. Which I wonder if that was a nod to Maximnamore the Nagisho Ashima film, which was from that. He did that in France, And there's a few things in here where I'm like, is this a reference to something else? Of course, when either scope puts on the mask at the end, I'm like, well, that makes total sense because she was in Eyes Without a Face and she was wearing a very similar mask in that, and then having Michelle Pekleley show up in this, it's like, I mean, between Marco Ferrari and Boon Well himself, the guy was in so many surrealistic films that you know you mentioned Discreet Charm. He's what Minister of science or something in that one.

I can't remember. What his role is. I don't think they have names. I think they have roles, and that again very similar kind of thing. I mean, I think it's obviously Caron knew what he was doing when it came to what he's up to.

And then I want to see there are a few other references or just the things that the mayor. The one is a reference to that film that he did with Bong John Who and Michelle Gondry. Okay, because that's like the exact I mean I watched it. It's like the exact same character. Dani Lavant is just playing it again, like but and he like goes and kidnaps inexplicably again Eva Mendez like yes, yeah, yeah, and like takes her to the seward.

But he's playing this like weird like Goblin esque character, like a your troll maybe troll under the bridge type thing. It's yeah, but inexplicably even Mendez. But it's a reference to another thing that Caro had made, you know, you know previously. But again, like you would normally know that if you were a Leo Carrow fan stan I think they call him now sorry sorry, or if you even had ever heard of his career before, like that's the thing. Like I watched this and then watched those there have to be people that knew before going into this, what you know, and they were probably beside themselves when they saw Danny Lavant taking over that the character of Monsieur Marrit again, you know, well, and then Denia Levan being referred to mostly as mister Oscar.

I'm just like, okay, I can't remember what that would Oscar or whatever in French would translate to, but I know what it translates to in English, which is an Academy award, right right, which right exactly? And it's like, is this a little on the nose maybe, but again, like it being on the nose almost feels less like surrealism and almost like satire, Like that's that moment, and like surrealism kind of plays in that sandbox too, obviously. I mean that's part of surrealism can be satire or at least the poking of fun. But yeah, that would for me. It's like, of course, of course, and like that's very pointed, but I think it's you know, I mean, it's no surprise that the second thing is he goes from having a practical effect on his face too then a CGI effect on his body, and it's like, Okay, I get it, like you're that's the compare and contrasting, too, is apparent by where they place the vignettes in relation to one another.

Oh yeah, yeah, when he goes full motion capture, which is fucking amazing. What like when he starts doing all those obviously it's somebody else in the suit doing all the crazy, like I'm trying to remember the guy that played dark Mal but like, oh, ray Parks, Ray Parks, Yeah, it looks like Ray Parks doing mo cap type of thing. And then when it switches into that absolutely bizarre sex scene. Wow, not just a sex scene, Mike, a CGI snake sex scene. Oh boy, yeah yeah, I did not see that coming.

A snake with a very fat ass, mind you, it has a very perfectly heart shaped ass. And then there's a gray snake dick hot dog, and in between it's that's literally what's happening, Like, you're not snake dick hotdog And might be a new sentence, folks, but it's what happens in this movie, and it's I know, I mean, like, I guess it's probably just to comment on the phantasmagorical real existence of CGI effects if you think about it, like we I mean we always I think we use the term CGI fuck fest a lot, is what I say in terms of like the last third of any Marvel movie pretty much, or Indiana Jones movie anymore, but that last like CGI fuck fest, Like it's that phantasmagorical thing that you see here with two snakes having sex on screen, Like all right, yeah, I can't believe I'm watching this like right right and shown with so little pomp and circumstance.

It's just two snakes having sex, like and it's so early in the film already that I'm like, what am I in for all of a sudden and well, this is not where I parked my car, folks. Yeah. Well, and then the Monsieur Marrit is the next one, and it's it feels like the real showcase for me. Yeah, well there's a lot of is there. There's like a wee, you're is it anti Muslim?

Like I can't like what was the what was the deal with the like the Muslim iconography and like like Eva Mendez wearing ah job. Yeah that was so strange. Yeah, I couldn't figure out like what we're being what we're being led to by Caro like again when you're when you're making us a realist film or a film like this, Like I'm not saying it needs you know, Bill Ackerman kind of took me to task for saying like interpret and he's right, like sometimes there's no interpretation, but this feels like there is a pointed use of these things in need of a not interpretation, but maybe like a point of reference as to what you're getting at or what you're kind of going for. And I couldn't figure out for the life of me what that was, because it's like there's only one thing it could be.

Yeah, yeah, and I know that we are still three years before the whole thing Charlie hebdo shooting, but yeah, feels like the tensions around Islam are definitely coming through in this. And yeah, when he puts her in the job and then it's almost like a fashion show that he's doing. But even before that, biting off her fingers, bites off like the woman like who comes up to him her fingers and it's like it's very like it's a it's the most I think it's one of the more graphic displays. I think it's the most graphic display of violence in the entire film. Yeah, I think between that and the throat slashing, but yeah, I think that this is more intense and it just kind of comes out of nowhere.

Yeah, someone biting someone else's fingers off is never not going to be gnarly, like it's just no, oh, well, they made the very wise thing because the thing that we're not really talking about are the pieces in between. You know, like if you're looking at a film frame, it's the black in between, it's that little respite for your eye, which is when he's in the back of the limousine. And those segments very in length as well. It's so crucial that they're showing him being making himself up, and that seems like one of the longer segments of him making himself up and getting to see the stages of everything, like starting it off with the white eye and you know that he hasn't had that before, and then putting out of the spirit gum for the goatee for the beard and making it all tacky.

I really loved that, and it really helped because you saw so much of his artifice before he walks out of the or steps out of the car and suddenly becomes mister Merrit and just the body language that he has and those horrific talons of nails that he has that we've seen him trying to move his hands normally and pull things out of this box and all this kind of stuff. But eushi sushi with those hands. I kind of wish that thing had gone on for a little bit longer. But then when he gets out and then suddenly it affects that Nasa Ferato type pose. It's like, Okay, good thing you showed me that lead up, because otherwise I would be really disconcerted while and talk about a talk about a very obvious usage of the music too, and that's oh boy, the literal Godzillapy.

I was like, what do I know this from? Initially, I was like, oh shit, it's just Godzilla. When it like launches into that like yeah, yeah, yeah, and again, like I think the interesting thing you mentioned these kind of the like the interstitial segments. They also do that thing that you kind of hear people talk about when it comes to like reassuring kids that like an actor is not actually dead, it's just a part. It's like, oh, like the behind the scenes of like Robert England going into the Freddy Krueger makeup.

See, it's just a guy in makeup like that, I think is also it's being used in that similar kind of tongue in cheek way of like, see, it's just all in act, folks, Like he's not actually killing anyone. He's not actually biting off anybody's fingers. It's not maybe I seems like he did, I'm not. It's all it's in method acting. Yeah, well, everybody is fine at the end of these segments, which we'll find out later on.

Yeah, but what's interesting is, like again, it just feels like those those moments in the limousine are these like very strange moments of respite and in a still strange movie, Like there are weird things that happen, Like another guy showing up in the limo just randomly that looks like Gorbachev. Well that's the Michelle Piki right right. And I had no I mean, like I had no idea who he was outside of like looking it up after the fact, right right, And like I had seen him in the but he looks very different obviously. Yeah, this was towards the end of his well, he died just a few years ago. But this is getting up there and then yeah, you're right with that wine stain on his face.

I was. I also thought he looked a lot like Gorbachev with his hair pattern every and everything. So that's funny that we're thinking the same thing. Yeah, I was acting dani Levant to like reach over with a hanky and I knew it right, breaks the fourth wall again. Yeah, don't let me see any of you around the United States again, Like, wait a second, it's Frank Drevn's finest role was being Dni Levon.

Is Frank Drevan in all those movies. It's just a role of folks. But ken looks like I'm at the beginning with that gray hair. Yeah, well, when what's funny, as you mentioned it, like dani Levant is a chameleon in this Whole Boy in a way that like you know, we we we talk about Eddie Murphy or Jack Black and Tropic Thunder doing that like the Fatties where it's like six I'm playing six characters like this is that, but done with no pomp, no circumstance. No you know, hello, my name is Dave Bullshit, It's just this is he's an actor and this is his job.

But he disappears into all of these roles in a way that only in a way that Eddie Murphy wishes he could have in any of the times he did this kind of thing, and the movie throws you. Like the next segment after married, when he suddenly becomes his father comforting his daughter. I was like, oh, okay, this is the real guy. This is mister Oscar in off hours. No, No, it's just another role, just another role, which again, like to your point, fatherhood, just another role, right.

I really love the mundane nature of that scene because it's just like to go from him with his erect penis out next to Eva Mendez, who I was convinced at one point I was like, this is this is not even Mendez anymore, Like this like the her job is being used so that she can leave, and like nope, He's sitting there with his in full display, his wieners out, and then Eva Mendez pulls the thing back and I'm like, wow, all right, yeah yeah, but then it cuts to him being a fatherthet really it looked like a prosthetic dick to me. Yeah, just the way it was curved up. I don't know get Deny Lavant on the phone. Got one question for you. That's it, right, Right, these Americans really wanted to talk to me, but they didn't have a lot of questions.

Let's just put it one. Yeah, yeah, just one goddamn question. But I love that they juxtaposed that, which I think is like in terms of like sustained intensity. They juxtaposed that against like what you would consider to be the most mundane of all of the segments. It's the only one where like really nothing happens.

Yeah, yeah, and it's so much more her story than his story. Yeah, he's more just kind of an ineffectual father at that point, right, which I love him. I love Danny Levant playing this like working class guy with the hat on. You're in the bathroom the whole time, you lied to me, and it's like this guy, we just watched this guy bite somebody's fingers off, Like but that's the thing. I mean, it's it's again, it's like the thing that I've I said about Chris Evans in Knives Out.

It's like, are we really led to believe that this guy's not the villain of the movie, Like, you know, but it's like but again, like he played Captain Merika right before that, so it's the same thing of like, well, how do you how do you undo that by just I guess hard steering one eighty and going the other way and I'm gonna play a down on his luck father with a daughter who's kind of a shut in. I guess, Yeah, but so compelling, like totally again, could be a movie, This whole piece could be one whole film. Yeah, and then we get him playing an accordion, which I think may be the best segment in the entire movie. I absolutely love it. I just love the way that the song builds, and yeah, it's terrific and I and I love the I love the intensity from the people that are in the scene with him because you can tell like again, like and you know at you know, background actors are a dime a dozen, but when you get some good ones, they fucking kill it.

I'm talking like real, These people don't seem like actors. These people seem like like just people. I'm not talking about like trained people. These are just like background people. They genuinely are having a good time, and it helps make that scene a nice refreshing palate cleanser for the next Like weird stuff that is coming because the movie just takes a hard write, I think for a while where it gets involved in a lot of like violence, Oh yeah, well violence, and then more surrealism.

The man that you kill has your face, and then the man that you killed kills you in the exact same way after you've changed him to look like you. So now it looks like twins laying next to each other, which is insanity. Oh yeah, and I love that when he showed up, when and he's got the assignment, and that's where they really start to show more of the paperwork, and I just thought to myself, it's going to be him as the other person, and I was so glad when it was. But again, didn't look like it. It took a lot of work for it to become him with the beard and the long hair and the dark glasses or something.

But yeah, once he started to shave away, I was like, oh, okay, yeah, I'm glad I was called that one. And the upside down like triangle tattoo in the forehead, Yeah, it looks like a right proper, like like slav squatter when he is pretending to be the gangster, like he's evoking something very specific and it totally works, like Eastern European like track suit wearing scum like and it's it's he's it's perfect like and again this is a very again I would say unassuming French actor like not someone that I would again think is very intimidating, but in that scene he is very intimidating. And again speaking to the idea of transformative roles and being transformative in what you do it in your profession.

You know, we know so many actors out there aren't really bad people in real life, but they play the best worst people possible. Oh yeah, they always had the best right exactly. Yeah, they get to be their worst selves at all times, which has got to be very fun, right, like I And that's the thing, like, you know, ultimately, you know, you talk about this scene where he kills someone who looks like himself, and that he makes him look like him. In the next scene, he kills himself while disguised as a guy with a balaclava uncovered in barbed wire. I love that look.

Same, it's so cool. Impractical is fuck? But cool? Oh yeah, well in this again they pull the rug out from under us because there's you know, Selene driving him along, and then he instead of her pulling over and letting him out, he yells for her to stop, jumps out of the limo with that amazing outfit on, and just runs right up to a guy and shoots him right in the head. And You're like, what, Like, this doesn't seem like an assignment.

This seems like him having a vendetta. And then when he starts getting shot, I just was like, Okay, how many times has he died? You know? He said, we just had him die in the previous one. Here he is again, and I'm just like, this is pretty great that he's just going to He's going to make it through this, even though he just got shot by all of these guys that were protecting the person.

And I mean, who was the person? A banker or a politician? I don't know if we know that for sure. I think, yeah, I don't know, but it looked like he did at the beginning of the movie, right like right, which again like we don't see the face of the guy he kills, but I assume it was him, right, which again like what the I can't help But again wonder like what is that commenting on that he keeps killing people that looks like him, Like what it what is the what is that driving at? And again like I don't know if it's driving at anything, but it seems oddly specific because they repeat it twice.

It's like poetry. It rhymes. I mean, you could suddenly say that this is a science fiction movie where the person has to go and kill all of their clones or all of the different versions of them in time that right, Yeah, exactly. It's more and more powerful each time. Yeah.

Well, and the thing that's interesting is, you know, this is the only one where he stops the car and he's like, we need to stop. I'm getting out, And then Selene comes and gets him after he's been gunned down, and she's like, there's been a mix up. And the craziest thing about it is this is a movie because nobody reacts. It's like they know that he's not actually dead because it is a movie, and it's that moment of fourth wall. Yeah, and it's fourth wall breaking in a way that the movie doesn't really do.

I mean, it does it a couple other times, but it doesn't do it like this blatantly with this many people any other time. But it's like everything. If this actually happened the way that it happened, people would be freaking out. But they're like, okay, Like, oh it's a mistake, everybody, Sorry, I was on the wrong set. I you know.

Yeah again, Like, and what's funny is like he keeps dying and coming back to life. It's like this again, how many times has Sean Bean died in all the movies that he's been in? But yet, but yet, but yet he comes right like and it's to the point where it's a joke with him as an actor, like, oh, he dies in everything, but but again, you know, yet yet we have him dying again, because then he becomes an old man and dies in the most mundane way of dying. Right, Really, such a turn from the major adrenaline rush that we got from the last kill, and this becomes the opposite of that, where it's the old man making his amends at the end of his life and trying to really set up is what was his granddaughter for success sace or something?

Yeah? Yeah, And it's like, Okay, this is very languid and it's pacing, but it was again you talked about Palate Cleanser with the musical act. It's kind of palate cleanser here because it was just so slow, and again it's like the most you know, if we're again going down the mister Oscar route, it's the most baity oscar thing possible, right yeah, right, Like, oh, like what what else would he need? Like just like you know, like he's blind to or something like. It's just adding further compounding the ridiculousness of the scene.

And then it's you know, it's played so like just straight the entire time until it's not, and when you realize what's going on, it's even funnier. It's even funnier in a way that again, like the movie is funny. But there are some moments where it's like, wow, you actually not only went there, but you landed it too. And this becomes the first moment when I'm thinking to myself, is this now therapy rather than it just being a role that he's playing. Was he doing it for this girl?

You're right, it was his niece, quote unquote. Is he doing it for her so that she has some closure or something? Did he do the dad act with the little girl? Was that her request to have that because she doesn't have a father and so I start to recast the movie in my mind that way. Obviously it doesn't fit for everything, but it suddenly it's like, oh, well, acting is like therapy.

So it feels like we're getting different answers every single time, which I really appreciate because, like, on the face of it, it really is just kind of this wild pinball esque ride through Paris on these bizarre vignettes that seemingly I mean, if you just watch it and don't give it a moment of thought outside of watching it, you're gonna be like, oh, it's just this weird little vignette movie. But yeah, it's all these moments if you just sit and think about it, or again think about the ramifications of what it means to actually do this in real life. Like as again, it's weird to think about if you think about acting these people that are like, oh my god, you played my kid on a TV show for ten years, Like I've never been in that position.

I don't think you've been in that position either, but like, imagine how fucking bizarre that would feel, because at some point you probably feel like their parent, but you're not their parent. And yet in this scene we have a guy playing a old man who's dying and a young woman who is invested in his life and his death, but yet she is also playing that part. And it's insanity because at the end he's like, oh, like, what's your real name? Because he realizes, oh, yes, she's also an actor, right right, yeah, which then I'm like, oh, way, this can't be her therapy. Maybe it's therapy for somebody who's watching, And then oh fuck, I'm watching right right.

And it's like, what do we what do we want from film? What is film giving us as the viewer? What is our is our expectation being fulfilled? And do we hold it against the thing that we watch if it's not? I mean, that's the whole thing that I think any critics struggles with is whether or not you should bring your own bias into talking about things, and whether or not your bias even fucking matters.

Because again, this is a movie that Leo Carrow made for probably himself, because he wrote it and directed it and it's the exact movie that he wanted to make. But what does that mean for him that he made these vignettes as the creator? What is is what is he going through and putting out on screen for us to see, and how are we interpreting it? Like you said, I mean again, what is the intended purpose here? I'm not sure because it seems like there's not just one, which I really appreciate.

I don't need somebody to tell me what their movies about, at least not at least not specifically. I mean, because that's the thing David Lynch always talks about, is like I don't want to give like a definitive explanation for my movies because I don't want it to ruin what somebody else thinks is happening, which I appreciate, I mean, don't go full Jad Salinger, But is that the counterpoint to all counterpoints, right, is like I refuse to let anybody touch my thing because I don't want someone else's interpretation to get in the way of your interpretation. And like I was actually kind of surprised there's not there is Again they kind of hint at it in this movie of like what's really going on here?

Who's getting what? And that framing device of the movie theater at the beginning is is like a you know, is this a movie in a movie? In a movie? Is kind of what what is how many levels of reality are being observed and felt by the people in this because we don't know what the base reality is at any point, because this scene with him as an old man is the one time where you're like, okay, maybe something is on the level and it's the least on the level of all right. Yeah, And the way that she stays on the bed, her head on the bed, and then yeah, I love when he's walking around he's about to leave.

Oh wait, no, I have to come back and pet the dog before I had outright this scene, right, And it's like there's a there's a script somewhere and they're all abiding by it, and you can't go off script. You can't go off script because what happens if you go off script? Who knows? Just don't do it though, Yeah, yeah, which it feels like those men that show up in the back of the limit with him are producers, directors, all of the people that our actor would be working with, and they all have their different things. Like Piccolie when he's like, oh you look tired.

You know what's going on? Don't you enjoy your work anymore? Yeah, it feels very much like he's trying to direct an actor well, and I mean you know the idea in Hollywood that you know, actors are past their prime and they're no longer. I mean we talk I mean we talk about it all the time with like older female actors and the way the industry treats them. And like he answers the question the way a lot of actors answer, which is like, I'm doing it for the love of acting.

Like Kenneth Tiger is in his late eighties and he's still acting. He still gets up every day and loves the craft that he does. I know that I've never talked to him. You have right, like or auto auto has right. Definitely has right, But like this guy has been working in the industry for fifty plus years, Like of course he loves it.

And this is like the Denis Lavant character. It's like this is that you know, he's never the main character in any of these scenes. You would think, but he is, but he isn't. Again, like you don't know if this scene exists within itself or within the context of a greater narrative either, because if all of these things are just movies being made, are we seeing a movie or are we seeing ten different movies? A piece of each one again?

What is going on here? Yeah, because again we're back in musical territory with Kylie Minogue showing up and this one again feeling like it's not one of the appointments, but then it ends up that it is. I love it, you know, him seeing this woman from across the way. They're two limos wreck and he looks across and sees this love of his life that he hasn't seen in twenty years. It becomes this whole let's get away from here and you walk for a while and oh, we have a very limited amount of time.

It was almost like before trilogy, you know, it's like, oh, we only have tonight and here they have twenty minutes, and you need to fill me in on twenty years and twenty minutes. And then she starts to sing and I was again not expecting this, and it becomes her movie. Like you were saying, he's not the star here, but he is, but he isn't. She's there center stage singing a beautiful song. I was really touched by it.

And you were talking about music before. Yeah, there's some very prominent music placement end here. I remember. I think there's a Sparks song in one where he's driving a lot. I don't it might be the father one where he's driving his daughter and they get to this Spark song and yeah, I love that.

You've got that crazy accordion thing. You've got Sparks, you've got Godzilla music, You've got all of these different things. And then you have a musical number here with Kylie Minogue racing us with her her pipes. And they actually have Kylie Minogue earlier in the movie too, when he gets his daughter from the party. You can hear Kylie Minogue be played at the party, and it was really weird because I was like, that's like the one that's the Kylie Minogue song that I've heard Can't Get You out of My Head, And that's the one that they're playing, and then she shows up and I'm just like, what right?

It's so because is that Kylie Minogue? Right, that's the question that I have. I was like, is that Kylie Minogue? Because is it? Like?

I don't again, if it's actors being taken in these cars places, is it? Yeah? Again? Like and it's so weird because of course, if Kylie Minogue were cast in a movie, they would have her sing right right, exactly right. It's the producers and directors making this package.

Oh we've got Kylie Minogue. Of course she's going to have to sing right, And of course it's going to be like a romantic drama d comedy, like not a comedy so much, but like a romantic film, like, oh, we only have twenty minutes. We're a lot, you know, star crossed lovers, like the most saccharin melancholy horseshit possible. But that's the point, Like that is literally the point. And I haven't seen a movie that really does such a good job and taking taking the industry to task, but also lavishing love on the industry the way that this movie does, in a way that doesn't feel disingenuous like so many of those movies just feel like, oh, you know, the industry loves itself and it's like we it's it's it's low hanging fruit.

Like this doesn't feel that way. Yeah, And talking about melodrama, the ultimate melodramatic end where she and her partner have jumped off of this building and mister Oscar sees it and cries out and becomes this anguish scream and then once you realize, oh, that was one of the appointments, which you may realize that while you're watching it, or maybe later on where you're just like, oh, wait a second, that he did denying things that must have been one of them. When you realize that, no matter when it is, it's like, oh wow, that that's really clever. And then he goes to what you think is his home right the end of the movie, and then it turns out he's in a pink house with chimpanzees. Yeah, your wife and children are chimpanzees.

And somewhere Brendan Frasier let out a furry vengeance cry that the world could not hear over the oscar that he got this fucking year, even though he was in a movie with animals. It seems like a little pointed pointed commentary, folks. That's all I'm gonna say. Just because the guy's in a movie with animals doesn't mean he can't win an oscar. Yes, it's this is a strange movie because again it doesn't it doesn't masquerade as a Hollywood movie externally, but the moment you watch it, it's very apparent what's going on.

Yeah, it really makes you think and I can see why this was getting so louded. And I'm really glad that we're having this discussion, Chris, because I did not put that much thought into this last night when I was watching it. It really took this discussion to realize how much I cared for this film same like I said, I watched it twice, and I also kind of just scared around through some of the weirder segments that I kind of had a hard time figuring out what was going on. But the thing that really threw me for a loop is kind of the last ten minutes of the movie because he kind of I think that's him at the end when he looks like, I don't know, he looks like Tom Cruise in Collateral, which is an oddly specific reference, but like, yeah, the hair is exactly that, and it's shot in a Michael Mann esque way.

Yeah, it's so is and like what is that? And like what is what are we getting at here? And then the movie ends on a joke. But then the movie like it ends with mister oscar on a joke. But then I was trying to figure out what is the point of the actual cars right because cars talk right?

Yeah, which again we've moved him to another movie. You know, I can't remember if Herbie talked, but I mean we've all seen a talking car, you know, or talking cat. But yeah, that suddenly it becomes a conversation amongst the cars. And before that having Syline with donning her mask before she can leave the garage, and I kept wanting to see where the other drivers are wearing masks as well, And you know, to your point, it's like we, like you said, we've all seen a talking car, and like I didn't. I didn't even think about that initially.

I was like, I was like, why why are they doing this? Oh? Right, because it's they're literally actors too. Yeah, And I love this whole thing of how they are worried about getting old and outdated so much like actors do. Right, Like everybody's got the same problem, even if they don't realize it.

And just that they're all the same darn car. They're all you know, affluent white vehicles, gaudy white limos, yeah, very very gaudy, and that they're you know, they're passengers carrying around Kylie Mindeau, carrying around mister mister oscar. And you just wonder how many of you know, obviously you don't wonder anymore how many of these are out there because you see this fleet of limos, but that's just one, you know, garage and Paris. How many of these other garages are there? How many of these people are just moving amongst us doing these almost performance type pieces thinking, especially if mister Merritt, you know, just they live in our same air, but they read it differently.

Yeah, an apt way of putting it. And it is, like you mentioned, it is interesting that this is just the one and you don't it's never it's never hinted at, but you know that there is so much more going on because the movie hints at it by just leaving those little moments to kind of like just they leave you with them, but they don't leave you with them for so long that it's like it's asking you to ask yourself about it. It's just it just goes like the thing at the end, or the fact that he dreams in zotrope for whatever reason, essentially right, like it's just it's it's pain homage to the history of film and what an actor is and what an actor does, but not being like this is Tom Cruise, like it's just this is mister Oscar, which means it's any actor trying to do that thing, but any actor also just trying to act.

Yeah, and good call on the collateral reference, by the way. I once you said that, I was like, oh, that makes total sense. It's yeah, it's like so oddly specific. But all of a sudden he has this like like white wig on and they're shooting him from an angle where it's like looking up at him, and I'm just like, what else is this from? Right?

Yeah, I really enjoyed this movie, and I normally don't enjoy movies like this because I have a hard time watching the industry kind of not masturbate on screen, but pat itself on the back overly hard, because that's what those movies feel like. Right, It's like we get it, We are entertained because there's not a whole lot of other avenues for big time entertainment. It's movies, Like they're still as much as we all maybe bemoan the theaters, the movie theater system, like to go to a movie and see a movie. There is no other replacement for that. And that is again like there's part of that here where it's like there is no other job like being an actor, and to explain if you were to try to explain to someone who doesn't understand what acting is what you do for a living, they would think you're actually fucking crazy.

Ye reminds me of that clip of Ian McKellen talking to Ricky Gervais about how he's an actor and how he gives such great performances. Do you remember that one mister Peter Jackson comes to me and says, I want you to play Kendoff and he's a wizard. And I said, Peter, you understand that I am not a wizard. He just starts to say, like how he does it is he pretends that he's another person and that's his whole secret acting, Ian mckelleney mckelleney McKellan. Peter Jackson calls action wizard wizard cut Ian mckellany kelen, name mccellens and that and that, and I feel like that is the thing that the movie kind of Toys with Two is like, is this method?

Is this real? Where is where's the man? Where's the actor? And some actors clearly have the line. Ian McKellen is very much himself when he's not screen.

Ian McKellen is a very very very very very interesting fellow, but he's nothing like Cann Dolf and realize about as far from Gandolf is evenly possible. But that's the thing. It's like, who is mister Oscar We do not know and does he know? I don't know if he knows anymore. After you play pretend for that long, I wonder if you start to question who you really are on the dude playing the dude disguised as another dude.

I mean, there is some of that here. Like again, like Tropic Thunder has that like needle needle needle moments of you know, the whole Robert Downey June You're Ben Stiller thing about, you know, actors portraying characters that have developmental disabilities and movies that whole thing is again just like this. It's like, this is crazy town, guys that we're doing. We're pretending ultimately like boil it down, that's what it is. But yet we put these people up on the pedestal for them for breathing the air differently, and it is it is.

The movie gets right to the heart of it, and by the end of the movie, Yeah, he's in a house with chimpanzees, right, do you like you do? Like you do? And then I guarantee the next day he's going to be picked up and once again he's going to go to wherever he's going and doing whatever he's doing. He's going to end up somewhere else that's not his home again at the end of the movie, because I don't think he has, but I think that's day Hill probably shoot a family of chimpanzees. Free vengeance too.

I'm sick of this chimp pasters. God. Yeah, this was This was a fun one. This was definitely one that I kind of wish more people have seen because a certain group of people clearly saw this, like, oh, that's apparent, but the people that I wish had seen it haven't. And this is definitely going to be like on a I will mention this to people.

It's like, if I know you and I know this is the kind of thing you would enjoy, this will be the kind of thing I suggest, because like it is definitely a movie watchers movie and someone who appreciates film and what goes into making film and the weird intricacies of like all of this industry, because this industry is way weirder than it even seems, as long as you think two seconds about it. Because again, if you don't know a lot about the movie industry, you're not going to get a lot out of this. You don't know who a director and actors are, and a writer are and producers are. There's going to be some like learning curve. But yeah, this movie is a lot of fun, and that's that's a hard thing to come by.

I feel like anymore really makes me wish that I had also watched a net Is twenty twenty one film, the one with Adam Driver, but I haven't seen that yet. I was super excited when they're talking about and I didn't connect that it was the same director as Whole the Motors, And yeah, I think had I had I seen Holy Motors when I probably should have, I would have seen a Nette. But yeah, it's I'm really glad that we had this discussion because yeah, I appreciate this one a lot more and I wanted to watch a Nette as well. But I kind of almost wanted to like do an episode on it because it's a rock opera and since when do you get a rock opera ever coming out in any sort of fashion? Or format anymore, like which now makes me super excited after that accordion sequence, yes, oh yes, Like that was like five minutes that he was given to nail a song, like give the guy a whole movie, Like yeah, come on, folks like yeah and that and that for me is like that's the other thing that this movie really made me excited to watch movies, like more movies.

I'm like, that's a that's really rare when it's like, I love that this movie talks about movies in a fun way, gets me to think about movies in a different way and makes me want to go watch movies and maybe think about them a little differently. And that's not again anymore. When you watch as much movie and much as many movies as you have, and as I have, and as so many people that we work with, have to watch something that genuinely is different and exciting and fun and brings back that joy of filmmaking is hard to come by, it really is. But what does the title mean? That's the last thing I wanted to ask you.

Oh yeah, because like that's the thing that I cannot figure out because they go to Holy Motors at the end, that is where the cars are. But what does that mean? Right? Right? Are we suddenly now thinking that these white cars are angels?

You know that? I found it interesting because the second O and motors seems to be not right. So I'm like, okay, I'm am I seeing the says eyes God. I was looking for anything. Chris me too, Like I couldn't for the life of me figuring it out.

I mean, I looked at the poster for the movie, and the poster for the movie uses the headline as Danny Lavan's eyes. But that doesn't give me anything else. It's just a really novel way of using headlights on your movie poster more than anything else. Yes, good job on the headlights. It's very good.

Yeah, I'm not exactly sure this ascension to what I would assume is a heaven of some sports if you're called holy motors. Don't know, Yeah, I don't. I I was just wondering that the whole time, Like what does that mean? Because there are other things that have meaning in the movie, and maybe it's meant to just be arbitrary, just like titles for movies ultimately are true, I mean they kind of ore, Yeah, they really, I mean, ultimately, like most things are arbitrary unless there's somebody's names. But even then, like Indiana, Jones was not something that existed before three people came up with it.

Before then, that was just a jumble of letters that described a state in this country and a lot of people's last names. But those two things together means something. Holy Motors means jack shit to together. But I think that maybe ultimately the point Leo Caros like, hah, they asked the stupid question. They asked the one question that's the obvious, the obvious one, right, God in front of us, Leo, Yeah, right, So Mike, final thoughts on Holy Motors, Well, I'm very thankful to Jess for picking this and I'm very thankful to you for having me out for this one.

Chris, same, Yeah, it was. It was like again, like, I don't know any final thought needs to be said other than like, if you can find this movie, you should watch it if you listen to this shot to find. I seem to remember it was out on Netflix for a long time, but it's not there anymore. It's on Plex for free, oh, which is super commercial, I think. So, yeah, well it's kind of set up for commercials.

At least nine breaks, right. Yeah, so at least last I checked, you could find it on Plex for free, which I mean makes perfect sense given that it's an international film and you know, I don't know how else a lot of international films get to the States, but Plex and to Be and so the thing PLEX has like a whole thing that I never use, which is free Plex because it's just like to Be and Pluto, like Plex has point break like the original movie on there to watch for free. Like I associate Plex very differently because it's more of like a personal thing. But yeah, it's free to watch on Plex right now, just like Pluto, just like to Be. So if you're if you want to watch it, which you should, Plex folks, introduce yourself to Plex.

You won't be Sorry. No, but his penis is blurred out in the Plex version. I know that's the question everybody was asking, But it is. It is not it is the radios. It is not uncensored, which is also bizarre.

But yeah, but yeah, Plex where you should definitely go check it out. It's so Yeah, to your point, thank you Jess for picking this, because I never would have seen it without Jess picking it, And you finally got to watch it, so yeah, both positives. So on that note, we'll take a break and we'll play a preview for the next and final Culture Cast of July from Terry gilliam director of Time Bands. Brazil, quoted best picture by the Los Angeles Film Critics Associations. Time Magazine says a terrific movie, one of the ten best of the year, a remarkable accomplishment.

The New York Times Brazil is as good as they come in USA today, starring Jonathan Price, Robert de Niro, and Katherine Hellman. We're rolling it together, kid rated off now and select areas check newspapers. That's right on the final Culture Cast of July. I'm finally getting to watch a movie that I've never seen, and Mike's going to be surprised that I've never seen it. I'm watching Terry Gilliams Brazil.

Oh cool, Yeah, ive never seen it. Make sure you watch the one with the happy end day. Oh really No? I was like, I'm pretty sure, I'm pretty sure I've heard the exact opposite. Oh yeah, that's Terry Gilliams's preferred cut.

Is it really? No? Okay? Good? This was wanna say, like, there's no way This is like the hit hit alt F four while you're doing something on your computer.

Yeah, I got it kills your computer completely. Okay, he's leading me as stray folks. Yeah, sorry, you've you've done a whole episode on Brazil on your show. Yeah. Yeah, I had a good time with that one because it wasn't a favorite of mine.

I want to say Rob was on that and it was a favorite of his. And yeah, I actually got to speak with Sir Michael Palin about that one. Wow, that was quite an honor. It's got It's got Jonathan Price in it, right, Yeah, Yeah, fantastic, fucking love Jonathan Price, the overacting King of Oh. He's so good.

That's why I'm excited by Joe Baby. He's Oh my god, Jonathan Price just he is a he loves I love him, and I love him as an actor. He's just so I know, he's the lead. So I'm excited to watch it, and I'm gonna be joined, hopefully fingers crossed by Jess and Maggie to talk about the movie with me, because I know they're just as excited to watch it because they are the ones who like it and I'm the one who's never seen it. So until then, Mike, where could people find you?

And all the things that you work on? Everything that I do is over at weavingwaitmedia dot com. You can find well obviously this show, the Projection Booth podcast, The Lifetimes of Captain Bernie Miller, The Shabby Detective, Ranking on Bass, So many good things for your holes. Ranking on Bass coming to an end soon, folks, Get in now before the doors close. That's right, before the episodes are just all available to listen on the internet.

Every Pinocchio must go smoking the bear, take him out back and do whatever. Take him out to the farm up state, folks. But we don't need Smoky staying here. Okay, we didn't sign up to stare to store him long term. So it's a sea World set up.

We just don't have enough space for you, Smoky. You need to go away. Oh well, at least they're letting him go, I suppose the c world. Yeah, we'll just keep this, said Will and Tank for thirty years by a bear has Maine No, no, honeys. Oh yeah, I know it's Maine.

Yeah no right, yeah, But like Mike said, weirding Way media is where you can go to hear all the things that Mike and I do together, which is a lot of things, but a lot of great things, especially if you're a fan of classic television or television or movies or whatever strikes your fancy. If you're a fan of pop culture, weirding way media as you can go to get all those things. As for this show, Patreon dot com big thanks to all of our patrons. There are levels that you can join ten, twenty, and fifty for your pleasure and my pleasure and everybody's pleasure. Bonus, bonus episodes, bonus material, get to program a month, get to program two movies.

That's something you're interested in. Patreon dot com slash culture castes where you can go to get involved monetarily, but like rate and review the show wherever you get it. Unless you have a bad opinion, then keep it to yourself. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding with seriously, don't do it, but seriously do it anyways, I mean rate review the show on iTunes because that's the only place you can rate and review anything.

So Mike, thank you so much for joining me. This was a lot of fun. Thank you, Chris. I really appreciate it as always will catch on the next episode,