Sid and Nancy

Weird, we. Bather miha, not to say you make me uncomfortable, but I know how much you like this movie. I know how how important to this movie is to you. We have talked about movies that are important to you several times on this show. I believe the last one that we did was The Cook, The Thief, Her Lover, the Cook.

Yeah, all of that, the title who I can't ever get right. And now we're gonna be talking about a movie whose title does not have that many names, and it has all of two names in it, but it always it does make me feel a little weird to talk about movies that are important to you, because you know, there are movies that I really like, like Freaked and Goodfellas, and I guess they're probably important to me in a way. But I think when we talk about ourselves and and you know, you and I and other people we know, and I'm not saying everybody does this. I don't and I don't think everybody can do this, but when we talk about ourselves sometimes and when we mythologize ourselves, there are some things that matter a little bit more than others.

You know, I've heard you mentioned this before in passing so I've got to understand that this is probably one of those movies for you. We've never really done any of those movies for me yet, maybe we never will. I don't know, you know, I know we haven't actually because I don't know what they are. Not sure. Well it's not that I don't know what they are, but it's I would have to sit and really think about something that.

Like formative films is what we're talking about. Yeah, I mean, there are movies that are formative for me. Like I think Fletch is a lot more formative than I mean it is. Fletch is probably the closest I've ever gotten to talking about something that's like like I love Glengarry Glenn Ross, but I mean, and I mean there's some things about it that have influenced me. But like I when I watched this movie, I was like, man, man, I get it, Like I get I get it, and I get why I get at least on a cursory glance, why you you know, have resonated with this movie and on this episode of the Culture Cast, I am still your host, Cristache, much to the chagrin of at least one person out there in the world.

And now I can now I can say there's at least one, yeah, right, probably two honestly, well three maybe, actually at least two. You're right in my case, if you know me, if you know you know that it is too boy, Aren't I a lucky boy? And I'm joined by my good friend all the way from midnight viewing. It's a bi weekly show. And not twice every not twice every not once every other week.

It's twice a week, that kind of bi weekly, the kind that's actually a lot of work, your friend and mine father alone. Hello, I wish I had some snappy to say about sitting Nantsey. I could probably throw any number of a million quotes. But anyway, Hi, I'm here. You know what I'm also, you said you're uncomfortable talking about movies that were formative for me.

Well, this is the one that I'm actually kind of uncomfortable talking about. So there's that. Yeah, I'm I am excited to talk about it with you, But I am also excited to give you kind of a wide berth here in a little bit of a way, because I was going to jokingly say, and you were like, I didn't have anything snippy. They're snappy to say, and it's like, well, I think you're about to be given the opportunity to, as we say in the industry, wax rhapsodically. Because it is September and it is Father Malone Month.

We don't have a clever name this year because we uh, well we just don't, but we will next year. I think I think it's a fine name. Father Malone Month. All right, I mean, yeah, as long as you're cool with it. We are about halfway through the month and we are taking a look at nineteen eighty six's bio pic, which is a thing that boy that raises the hairs on the back of my neck immediately, Sid and Nancy, Hi.

Yeah, we've got company. I love the sextious dress. Are you going to make an honest woman out of a nancious okay side, He's more than a me a bits pla. He's a fabulous disall stuck shot. He has a sex pistol.

All your human nature seem to. My small. I didn't know. There was ses I sure hurting you when there was, when that was like. Try really think you can spy?

Sit off of me? Well, I love you. So. The film is directed by Alex Cox, written by Alex Cox and Abby Wool and its stars well Gary Oldman, but hey, let's just make the joke now, Gary Youngman. Gary the Youngest Man, like Gary Boy, almost.

Child Man, Gary child Man and Chloe Webb play the titular Sid and Nancy, Nancy Spongeen and Sid Vicious. There you go. If you know nothing about their story, we will be talking spoilers. If you do know about their story, boy, I bet you're along for a ride, just like I was. I'm going to turn it over to you father alone by because again, like I said, I know cursory as to why we're picking this movie and talking about it, but I'm going to turn the floor over to you, as they say, and let you get as comfortable and uncomfortable as you wish.

With the nineteen eighty six as Sid and Nancy colon Love Kills, which, by the way, terrible title. Terrible secondary title sounds like drag you. The original title was love Kills, so it got swapped to side Nancy. I know, which is even It's worse that they left it in there, but it's un grateful that that was not the original title. Sid and Nancy.

There's formative and then there's formative. There's movies that you kind of feel a kinship to that you feel it reflects to you, and then there's movies that kind of change you in a fundamental way. This is the most romantic movie of all time for me. People give me, give me a sideward glance when I say that usually, but it really. So, I get it, I one hundred That is not a surprising thing to hear you say.

I get that one hundred percent, if not agree with you one hundred percent in a lot of ways. I was thinking about this movie today, and when I think of images in movies, I'm always looking for a poetical moment in a movie, a lyrical moment in a movie, moments that are for the characters and not for the viewer necessarily, moments where we get to peek in on their lives in a way that is a little bit more representational, you know, a little bit more as I said, a lyrical, a little bit more fantasy almost, And this movie has my favorite moment of all time with that, to me, the most romantic image of all time. But then I started thinking, well, yeah, that one, but then there's this other one, oh and another I think there are five moments in this movie, five shots scenes that I think are some of the most beautiful things I've ever seen committed to film, and only sort of hammered home to me how antic the fucking movie is.

The We'll get into those later, I suppose, because they're pretty spectacular, but we we came out in nineteen eighty six. I was thirteen years old. I was in eighth grade. I got on the train and went into Cambridge, Massachusetts. I saw this at the Low's Cambridge Square, I believe, which is also the theater where they performed Rocky Horror on weekends.

So I was actually at this theater quite a bit. I by this time my musical taste had already sort of shifted from regular kind of pop music to the Cramps and flirting with punk rock but more rockabilly psychability than anything. The Blasters, you know, those kind of events. And I caught a television trailer for this movie where I only caught the very very end of it, and it's the my Way sequence. It's sit in Nancy standing on the stairs, one of those images, by the way, and I thought, well, I have to see that, right, So I went in on the weekend, and I saw it, and I feel like everything in my life change kind of at that moment.

Musically, like I said, I'd already been leaning in that direction, but the next couple of years of my life are full one thousand percent punk rock. And you know, I was thirteen years old and young, and you know, feeling romantic feelings anyway, and certainly had had my glut of what we're told what romance is and what love is supposed to be. And here was a whole other way to fall in love, it seemed to me. And as great as any other romantic film has been, none of them ever really spoke to me in a way that shows you the immediacy of love, the addiction of love. I mean, correct, correct, correct, correct, that's yeah.

Now here's the thing. Alex Cox. I've read an interview with him maybe five ten years ago, criticizing himself for the movie, saying that he didn't lean too He didn't lean heavily enough into the grubbier aspects of their lifestyle and didn't sort of hammer home the tragedy of their life. He leaned too hard into the romantic he felt. He did give me the schnook moment that Scorsese does in Good Fela.

Yeah, you know what, fuck you, you made the movie. It's out there here, it is right, and you know what, like the only people who are going to respond to the romantic aspects of are the people who feel that way anyway. You know, this isn't going to change anyone's mind and go make them be a heroin Addict or anything like that. Like the movie is what it is, and the real life is what it is. What that is, Like you can go read Nancy Spungen.

I've heard plenty of horror or horror stories about her as a person and Sid as a person, and you know, musically he was terrible, and you know he was basically just a sweet kid who kind of got swept up into this whole thing. But none of that matters, because what matters is this movie here. Can we just get that out of the way here immediately, Like if we're talking about this as a realistic thing that's portraying the real lives like further this could not be further from reality in a lot of ways. Like every piece of research that I did and you're going to echo it here. This is just we're talking about the movie.

The real people, better worse, does it matter? This is not representative of them in most, if not always, I think, is what I could at least suss out and glean from all the research that I did. It's there are two people. They were based off of these two people. But to what end?

Not this end? Okay, I think I've now explained just how fucking transformative this movie was for me, right yea, yeah, yeah. So I moved to Los Angeles in nineteen ninety one, I mean two years later. I'm friends with a cinematographer named Tom Richmond who shares a house with Alex Cox and Alex in Europe, I believe. When I'm friends with Tom and hanging around at said house, but one evening I find myself on a couch next to Abby Wole.

In a holiday inn. Paramus, No, that's the yoha off. How many times it took me looking at her to realize that's what she was from, God of all the goddamn things. So so, I kind of we didn't become friends or anything, but I was around Abby enough that I got to talk to her about this movie a lot, and it was one of the weirdest moments in my life where I got to thank the person for the movie that they had given me. And look, the fact is that that script says Alex Cox, and Abuel wrote that, in fact, the more romantic portions of the movie all come from Abbey.

One of the I'll just mention it here because it's in the trailer and everyone's seen it. It's the most sort of iconic image of the It's on the poster for Fox's sake, when Sid Nancier in an alleyway kissing and garbage is raining all around them in slow mode. It's gorgeous. It's probably my favorite piece of film in general. And that was Abby who it was the end of the day and saw this alleyway and grabbed a camera and grabbed those guys and made them like do that shot.

So anyway, Abby Woll's influence on this movie is sort of inestimable, and it was just weird to be able to pick her brain about certain things, you know, including the veracity of the movie. You know, like as as they were hitting certain beats, as you know, look. Certain things have to happen in like. Nearly everything that happened in this movie happened, you know, a side of flights of fancy and kind of those kind of things. But like you know, obviously they've condensed and shrank events to fit it into this two hour time frame, because like the sex Pistols thing, Like, clearly you can make an entire television series out of the sex Pistol story.

But that's only like the first maybe th heard of this movie, right, maybe half. Yeah, first half, I would say for sure. Right, because the movie is called sid Nancy, and it like, this isn't an Oliver Stone situation where he calls a movie that doors and just focuses on Jim Morris, And now this is this is about sitting Nancy, not the sex pisto. Bohemian ratsody freddick what what. Yeah, house a ooh bad news.

Why would you name that movie Bohemian rap? What does that even mean? I have no idea, Like how does that? I mean, yes, we know it's the name of the fucking song whatever, but like, how does that relate to the story being told? Is this a Bohemian rhapsody we're seeing?

Is this it's just the name of this not almighty man? So so abi Will would not go on to write a whole hell of lot else that would make as big of an impact as this, which is surprising. No, but she did write direct road sign profits. This is another favorite movie of mine, just unbelievably good, like a the, the, the, the, the all too easy catchphrase of it was or description of it was easy writer for the nineties, which it was. It's John Doe from X, the band X and Adam Horbert's from the Beastie Boys on a road trip to deliver a friend's ashes to Jackpot, Nevada, and they're on motorcycles.

It's great, sounds interesting. And they just run into fucking kooky people along the way. It's it's it's wonderful. It sounds a little bit more upbeat than this movie. It's shockingly upbeat compared to this movie.

I bet it is remarkably upbeat in comparison. Yeah, it's not that this isn't an upbeat movie. But Gary Oldman's performance, Yes, is I mean it's something right? Are you saying it's something like over the top? Are you saying something?

I'm think it's something amazing. It's just I mean, look, we all know Gary old Like all of us know Gary Oldman from a certain time in a certain place, and like you know it's gonna your entry point to Gary Oldman's career has a is a very long range at this point, like this was clearly yours. I think that mine really probably the first time and you're gonna laugh. I think was his comming SNAr Gordon and those Batman that is fucking shocking. I mean subsequent have seen him in plenty of others.

Oh yeah, I mean he's a RoboCop. Was he in a RoboCop? I think he's in real bok. I believe he's like nor is that Michael Keaton that's. In real it's Michael Keaton.

Sorry, he was in addition to Michael Keaton. That doesn't sound We. Couldn't somehow make this worse. Trying to think if Gary Oldman has been in any like because Batman is kind of like that. The big thing he was in, the big mainstream thing.

That Eleman. That was a very popular movie. That's not a movie that I would ever because of the Chris Tucker of it all about I stay away from that one. I think most of America got your actual taste of it from Air Force One. Actually, we're fucking morons and people are screaming at us right now.

Oh, I can't serious Black. No, Harry Potter, well, Tracula, he was Harry, but he's fucking serious Black and Harry. I know that's for your generation. I'm talking. I'm not saying for my I mean, look, I think that's for a lot of people.

Oh yeah, that's what they know him as now. Sure, But like I'm saying, when he made his big splash, like look when he hit the scene with True Viz and then fucking Rosenkrantz and Guildensterner dead and then State of Grace, I was the only one going, gad, I love this guy, you know. What I mean. I guess actually know that that's right. That would have been the same year.

So I saw rosen Krantz and Guildenstern are dead in two thousand and eight, the same year I saw The Dark Knight, or I guess Batman. He was in Batman Begins, but he wasn't nearly as big of a part and Batman Begins as he is in the Dark Knight. So yeah, I would have seen him in Rosenkrantz and Guildensterner Dead in two thousand and eight. Uh So, yeah, this is a very I mean, this is like the early This is the early entry point I think for most people with Gary Oldman. Right, and what sit Nancy?

Yeah, oh yeah, well, I mean it's his first thing, right. But I mean, like I'm also saying, like this was seen by a shitload of people too, is my point? Like a lot of this is not just some like well, this is the first movie that you're in, Like, no, this is a pretty big deal first movie for you to be in. You're playing a real person and an Alex Cox post Repo Man move. So not that rebol Man burned down the cinemas or anything, but for a lot of us, Repo Man is.

I mean it's seminal. I mean, yeah, I mean, yes, I agree, but you know what I mean. I mean it's that Repolman didn't light up the cinemas. Unfortunately, for as much as we both, I'm sure many of us love Repo Man. Well yeah, Gary, I mean Gary, look for Garry Oldman.

That's preter natural, I guess is trying what I'm trying to get at you, is what it seems like to me. I didn't watch the movie again for this because I don't have to. This is one of the ones that I don't, but I did watch the opening, say twenty minutes or so, right, and our first dealings with Sid when he's in that cell or you know, the the interrogation cell on the cops cop comes and gives him a cigarette. He is so shattered as a human being there. And part of it is he's dope sick, and part of it is he's completely in shock, and part of it it is he knows Nancy's gone.

It's in right up. So this is so Gary Oldman was when it was in one other movie before this one, but uh, it was in eighty two, and so is him and Timothy Spall and a couple other people. That was their first movie. But this is his first leading obviously. And yeah, to open the movie with the murder of Nancy and to have him essentially a where we're going to end up seeing him at the end of the movie.

I think it's really smart to open the movie that way because we get to see the juxtaposition of, oh, look at how fucked up he is. You're about to see how fucked up he really like, because this is fun. This is a different kind of fucked up than what we see throughout the rest of the movie. I mean this is like unable to exist, fucked up. Oh yeah, it's all up with that.

Yeah, there's no coping here. The copd the fucked up in this before was the coping. Now it's like there is no coping. You're broken and beyond fucked up. All that's left is pizza, dancing with kids and waiting.

For a calf well and heroin. No, wow, it doesn't figure into the ending measure. No, I mean it does, but it's a pay. Stage and he gets some pizza to he dances with some kids and he dies. Yes, of course he fucking died of a heroin overdose.

But but he died off screen. He went back to his home planet. He puoci. They even they even put up a little Chiron at the end, a little graffiti Chiron let us know he died a few days later. Yeah, but we don't have to see it because we know, because we know it's over.

But it's but it's old. But it's a parent that it's over when the movie opens, is my point, and that's your point as well. It's like he's just he's gone beyond before we even get to see him as a character in the movie. It's already too late for him as. A character, and what a character.

I think, Yeah, ch Jesus H. Christ Good for Garry Oldman being this talented at something like Jesus fucking christ Man, Like good for him, you know. Yeah, And he's charming too in this you know, like there's a lot of the there's a lot of drunken, stupid SID. There's a lot of smacked out, drooling Sid. But then there's a lot of charming SID as well, and that that may be what what Alex Cox is getting at, Like there are moments where he's like a like a normal human being.

But at the same time, I don't think the characters not on drugs from frame one in this movie, Like I think they're all fucked up on something or rather than the whole time. Motherfucker's eating beans and champagne pain it's five minutes of the movie, Like they're all fucked up. Like, yeah, I guess like Alex Cox, my response to him would be yours, Like do we think people became heroin addicts from watching this movie? Like come on, dude, If anything, people want to be rock and rollers from watching this movie, But probably not. I again, like it it doesn't have to be a self destructive lifestyle, because there are plenty of people that do it all the time that don't.

But those stories are uninteresting. Right exactly, Like you know, where's the Jimmy Buffett story. I mean, I'm not saying James Taylor didn't do Heroin, because he did. He did fucking Heroin, you know he did. But James Taylor's story is not as nearly excitingly self destructive as Sid Vicious is.

Here here's the sund but brutal meathook reality. Had Sid and Nancy not die and they just continued their lives, we wouldn't be talking about them right now. There'd be no movie, there'd be no nothing. They would be a footnote in history. He would have died some other way.

And then when the sex Pistols got back together for their filthy lucre tour, you'll talk about hanging a lamp on it. Fuck you guys like you don't get to cash in and say, oh, look to look at us ketch again, and we would never heard of them again. Like it's it's a sickening fact actually that I know Elizabeth Short from Medford, Massachusetts, because she was the Black Dolly I would. Never have heard of her before, right, right, But so I bye, but you do, but I do, And yeah, I mean, look, I think. If anything, Alex Cox maybe let Nancy off to light and not sit because the stories that I read about her and the things that I read about her, she's a lot more charming in the movie than I think she may have been.

And I think it was also some of the I think it was, and I think it's some of the mental illness of it all of the movie, and that it's not something that they really touched on, which I understand why they wouldn't have, because I mean it's a touchy subject. I mean, we still don't have the open conversation about mental health that I think we should be having in a lot of ways. But we're definitely not having it when this movie's coming out, and they're not. I mean, like we understand that it's part of it, but the movie doesn't really make it as clear as I think just doing the cursory research did that she was really not okay. I mean, it's clear that he's not okay, but it's not as she seems a little bit more high functioning than he does.

I've read everything there is to read about these two in the story and seeing every documentary imaginable, and I find myself falling basically where this movie ended up landing on with Nancy, Like, I bet a lot of people found her annoying, a lot of people found her to be a mooching whatever, right, But I think that was fucking everybody on the scene then. Right, Yeah, he's a hanger on, Like what the fuck? You can't can't hate somebody for love and rock music so much they want to be around the music all. The time, right, And and she's a brash, fucking American, so she's not gonna go over all that well with these punks who are fuck you to everything anyway. But I bet she was really annoying from time to time.

But here's the thing. I'm not looking at her from John Lyden's point of view or Malcolm McLaren's. I'm looking at her from SIDS, and the movie is looking at her from SIDS, and we're getting sid from her point of view, And like you know what, they bicker and they fight and they go through tumult, but like when they're at their best in the movie, it's only when they're with each other ever each other. You never see Sid as charming with any other character in this movie. Same with Nancy.

No, if anything, he's really off putting when he's with the other people, Like when he's with the rest of the band, it's like, get this guy here, a mon like he's I think he's the worst when he's with the rest of the band. When he's by himself, he's just pitiful. But there's so many people that are like that, Like, there are plenty of people that are like that that you know, the moment they're around, they're this big act, and then when they're by themselves, they're just like, you're the most sad, sack of fucking shit, Like you're pathetic, and you know, like and like and and I think the dichotomy between the two performances is what I really appreciate it appreciate about Gary Oldman because the pathetic side of said vicious is what makes him an interesting character.

He was unrepentant all the way down, which is the way he may have been. I don't think so, though. I don't think he would be nearly as interesting a character, and it definitely wouldn't be as uh charismatic a performance because by the end of the movie, you feel for him, and he is the one who's ostensibly been doing everything not ostensibly, I mean again, pretty much has been putting everybody in his life through the paces. So but yet, but yet you feel for him at the end of the movie, which is the success of the movie. And Alex Cox and Abby Wool and Gary Oldman and I mean again, you know, and I think you you kind of put it best.

Uh, the idea that Chloe Webb is not just as big of a part of it, because you have to see the way Nancy sees which is just as important, Like how could somebody love this guy? Well, let me show you the person who does. But you know what, that's fine because they're they're they're it. They're perfect for each other. Yeah, it's just I don't know.

It just seems so simple to me. And you know what, I'm with you. I get most people's reaction. And I've read tons of reviews of this movie that just sort of dismissed them as a couple of fucking pathetic junkies. Right, they threw their life away.

Bah blah blah, blah blah blah. Yes, that happens. It happens all the time, you know what, And some people fucking have miserable lives and they get hit by buses. Finding somebody that that you connect with on a sub atomic level is rare and h and amazing. And and why this movie is so important to me is because it's all well and good for happy guy with the good job and you know, you know pretty Sally, you know down the street, like falling in love and having their perfect fucking life together.

Yeah, that's that's the love that we've been getting served to us in every fucking TV show and movie since time immemorial. But you know what, the junkies, their version of love is just as strong as anyone else is, and just as worthy of documentation and prey. This reminds me in a lot of ways of a movie I watched last year that I think certain people's reactions to it are one hundred percent justified, but I don't necessarily agree with it. Similarly to people's reactions to this movie I get, I get it, I don't agree with it is Barfly. This reminded me a lot of Barfly, because again, in that movie, we have you know, struggling and you know, suffering alcoholics.

In this movie we have struggling and suffering, you know, drug addicts. I don't need that. The word junkie is terrible first off, right, Like it's an awful word. Calling people junkies is bad enough calling them like pathetic junkies. Right, Like the moment people start like referring to people that do that, that that you know have alcohol issues or drug prop alcoholics and drug addicts and junkies, it's like, whoa, Right, Like we're already probably not having right not having and I'm not talking about you, but just broadly obviously right, Like we're probably not the right people to be having the right conversation here.

So yeah, I mean when someone watched this movie and that's their reactions, like you're not being You're probably not even the right person to watch this fucking movie again with like because like you said, we're being peddled one idea, especially with our media for a very long time. In the movies that we watch about like man, Wife, House Dog, maybe a cat, picket fence, two cars, happy, Maybe there's kids, maybe there's not like there you go like there will at a room. I mean, there are shows that are entirely predicated on the will they won't they get together? Thing? I don't fucking care about those if you guys, if you guys don't have that electric snap and fucking pop that you that that that Nancy gets.

Here's one of those scenes when we first get the sex pistols on stage and they're doing the monkeys stepping stone and Sid can't even get his fucking base to work right, and he just ends up sort of Poe going around on the stage like a fucking idiot. He's in the foreground, completely on focus, Poe going up and down like an idiot and like spitting beer out onto the audience. And the entire shot is composed of Nancy watching him, and you can see the moment there. You can see her actually fall in love with him. There.

It's fucking incredible. It's an amazing shot. It's an amazing it's like thirty seconds, like I'll put that one second next to the trash in the alleyway making out. As far as romantic images that are sort of burned in my brain. Well, and it's for me, you know again, like it's it's a little ironic, Father Malone, that I'm watching this movie at the point in my life that I'm watching it.

I don't talk about my personal life a whole hell of a lot on this show, but my personal life has taken a very interesting and different diversion into the land of no longer with your partner. And so, you know, the relationship that I was in for for a decade, it had its ups, it had its ups, and it's down for sure. And watching a movie like this, it's like, I get it, Like I get the love as an addiction thing, because this is something that my ex said to me at one point about our relationship, and it's like, I don't know. I mean, I don't know how to feel when that's leveled against me. But sitting and watching someone else in the throes of it, where where it is all consuming and takes over your every facet of your life because you are, like to speak broadly without speaking specifically, there have been people in both of our lives where we were enamored beyond the belief with them to the point of like there's literally no other way that there's anything else ever at all.

And now both of us are in a very different position broadly, and it is hard to watch a movie like this because this movie shows like and yeah, they went both out on their fucking petards. Isn't that lovely? And it's like, well, it is lovely, you're right, and there's something very romantic about that sentiment. But yeah, because they did it together. Yeah, well right, exactly right, you know, because she because he's still Jesus.

You know, I knew it was coming and you see it coming from a mile away the end of the movie, I mean, even if you don't know what's going to happen, you know that this motherfucker's playing with knives, and the playing with knives can't be good regard because again they're also using hard drugs, which means at one point they like the room on fire. I mean again, like there's things that are happening here that they're out of their control because they are out of control, because that's part of it. And I don't know, it's just, yes, there is something romantic about two people ending it together. But this movie really makes the case that, like, you know, you get to sit in bed with your partner after you've been stabbed and you let yourself die.

I get it, but holy shit, I mean it's it is like the most romantic thing possible, right, This is what the movie is positing, is like weeding out over weeding out on your partner is the most romantic thing possible. I guess that's your love out everywhere. Right. It's a really hard scene to watch. Yes, that was the roundabout circular way of saying I knew it was coming, and I still went, oh my god.

Yeah. And it's that part of it that you're describing. It's the crawling back into the bed part. It's the fight and the stabbing. Look there, that's that's all conjecture.

Nobody knows what actually happened in that hotel room with those two only two people, however, however, there is a very very very very good case that there was a third person who actually killed Nancy spung In. In the movie, Uh. Xander Berkeley plays a character named Bowerie Snacks, who is their dealer. And Uh, I've I've seen interviews with friends of Nancy who have always said that Nancy was that tough and would fuck you up if if she thought you were crossing her. Right, she had to be.

She was licid visious. What the fuck? Why why would anybody even question that? Their theory and I don't remember all particulars of it I hope, you know, I'll find it out or something. But what it came down to was they believe that their dealer came into the house to steal uh because they had gotten some money, and she confronted him and he stabbed her and then took that money and fled.

Hmmm. So it's like an El Ducha Courtney Love Kirk Cobain thing where it's like there was a third person possibly this I would believe. This is actually yeah, yeah, see this is actually realistic. I was just taking out I was thinking that Courtney loved because she's in this. Oh yeah, she definitely is.

She wanted to be Nancy so bad. Thank god she wasn't. Hey jesus, she was not. My god. Yeah we we really haven't talked about Chloe Webb a whole lot.

Oh boy, I love her so much. She's great. She's a fucking adorable man. See that's the thing, like when you're saying, like, you know, they maybe did this or that with the character, whatever they were going to do with the character, they ended up casting Chloe Webb, who is just sweetness personafied. So even when she's being her most shrill, like I'm down with her right.

You know, I don't it'll I don't mind that kind of shrill, and that's what it may and it makes it makes the scene where she gets stabbed by him so much worse. Like, Ah, that scene where she gets stabbed by him. I started crying. I watched it obviously, because it's a lot. I mean, even with what I'm dealing with right now in my personal life, but it is a lot.

And then to see the scene where they're in bed next to each other, and it's like Jesus movie, like do we we needed to go here? And I get why we did and I and I'm not saying I don't appreciate it, but I think that I think that if you can't sit and at least acknowledge that this is a romantic movie, I have a problem with that. It may not be your kind of romantic movie. But I think it is right, like overwhelmingly so, I mean, and I know you agree, but like I guess, I guess I can see why someone would think it's not I don't think that that's fair, but I can see and I can also see why this would be off putting because this is you know, I mean, again, the level of grind that the movie is being shot with is you know, it reminds me of Gus van Zanti the nineties shooting New York, like, you know, the same level of grit and grime.

That's like, well, that's part of it. I don't know what people were expecting. This is Roger Diakins for Fox's sake. Yeah, it is gorgeously shot. The New York stuff is fantastic.

The London stuff is fantastic, Like all that stuff out on the water during the Jubilee where when like that all happened. You know. See, there's a lot of condensing facts, Like I said to like to get it all into one movie. You know, there's a this is a digression, I apologize, but something I'm struggling with. I'm a fucking Saturday In Live fanatic, right, I've seen every episode from every season here we go, I've read every book on it.

I have been obsessed with it. Right, So, now there's a Saturday Night Live movie coming out at the end of the month. Jason Rightman did a movie about the first broadcast, right, so it's seemingly a ninety minute movie about the ninety minutes leading up to getting Saturday Night Live on the air. Right, So just from the trailer, I can already see that there can and sing facts from later seasons and stuff and putting them in here, and it's it's really bugging me just because I'm I have such an encyclopedic knowledge of the thing. But I but when it comes to sit in Nancy, I'm like, yeah, I know that that didn't happen then, and they conflated this fact and then they moved this around and they did all this, and I'm like, I don't care who cares?

So I'm struggling with myself now when I'm gonna sit down and watch the Sound a Live movie that I if I give sit and Nancy a pass, I might have to give Jason Wrightman a pass, like the first time I watched that. Anyway, Sorry, weird digression. I would say that I don't think that it's I think to speak broadly about biopics because that's the other thing that we haven't talked about, is this is a biopic. And brother, I don't know about you, but when I hear the genre the subgenre biopic, I want. To run, oh yeah, real fast man at high fucking speed, often downhill and if not, I will make that uphill look like a downhill.

Like I am not like biopics and me I just I would rather read you know what as as much of a fucking much of a nerd as this. I would rather read a fucking book about a real person. I would rather listen to or read a nonfiction book than read or watch a quote nonfiction movie. I would rather watch a documentary about the person, honestly like and to go even further than that, I would probably rather watch a TV mini series about the person than I would a movie either, not because I want to subject myself to more, but because when you give some things more space, that is a better thing. That all being said, I think this is a biopic that I can get down with because of what you alluded to.

It doesn't necessarily give a shit about making sure that we get to see Johnny Cash going to the airport with the drugs and getting like I don't fucking care, James man Gold sorry, like Joacane Veoenix is great, but I don't necessarily need to see all of these things, Like I can just read a book or listen to Johnny Cash talk about it, or listen to his music where he talks about it. I don't need to see some like you, you don't have to show me. I kind of get it already, And this movie, I think does a job in that regard of understanding some things we just don't need to see, and some things need to be seen, but the order that they're being seen and may not be important to reality as much as the narrative that we're being told about in the movie.

Oh, I have some thoughts on biopics. First of all, if you're about to make a biopic, you're gonna sit down and write, I want watch Walk Hard, the Dewey Cox story. If any of your script is going to be echoing anything in that movie, then you need to rethink your script. Because one of the. Best things Jake Kasden has ever done.

Dude, it's so good. It it hits every problem with biopicks with a head, and it's sort of zeroing in on, you know, walk the line, the Johnny Cash thing. And it's funny that you bring it up because I think about that movie sometimes too, where it's like, yeah, the big fucking triumph at the end of the movie is like he goes to rehab and he kicks heroin or whatever. Right, he loves his wife at the end of the movie is technically the triumph. Right, But then they don't talk about the relapse in like nineteen eighty you know, or they like happen that didn't have.

The movie character that happened to the real life guy. Right. See the problem when you're trying to sum up everyone what someone's entire life is you you can't leave out the later unsavory stuff to have your victory earlier unless you're making a movie about that moment in that person's life. Like, look, the best book of all time is ed Wood. Larry Kerris, you're still never seen it?

Oh my fuck it the opportunity that you had this month and we missed it because I assumed you had seen that. That's absurd. Okay, Anyway, what Larry Karazers and Scott Alexander have figured out, if you're going to do a biopic, don't make it about their life. Make it about a moment in their life. Which I think for me is I think I think for me that's always been the better idea.

Anyways, or to go one step further and kind of maybe like not a step further, but kind of a side step to your idea. The ones that I also like are events that have famous people in them, so it's it's you know, like I mean, Zodiac is kind of one of those, right, Like Zodiac is more of a time and of a place of three people. It is kind of a biopic lot of them, definitely, But like I wouldn't you don't think about it immediately. But I also I am a huge fan. I think like a drama or a thriller or whatever, but like if you're if you're painting with a biopic brush.

There's a lot of those movies that fall into the category. But I'm also with you, like a specific time, a specific place, or a specific event. Also, those kind of biopics I think are smart, Like Lincoln. I mean, Lincoln is a very smart biopick because it's not you know, his whole life. It's like we've got We've ultimately got for me as far as I'm concerned.

The reason you do a biopic that way, and the reason you would do a biopic at all, is to give an actor the opportunity to do the fucking thing that actors want to do so well. And like when really good actors are given the opportunity to do something like they can fucking kill it. And I would want to give an actor an opportunity to play a character or a human or a real person at a specific time and not have to cast five different actors. That's the other thing you run into, right, is you have to co opt all this time for the one actor for you know, young walk, you know young Woking, Phoenix, you young Johnny Cash and teenage Johnny Cash, and you know, it's like, fuck off, get out of here. Like, give one guy the opportunity to do the one thing and have it be a you know, leading up to folsome or something, not the whole life like come on the wrong Day's died.

Yeah, when you pick your actor, pick the age of the moment in that person's life. Don't age them down, don't put them in a wig that it's a little too shaggy, like. Timothy shallow May as Bob Dylan. All right, you know I'm curious about that one. Amen, Like what the fuck?

You know? And he's singing too, it's James Massold once. Again, right, I know he's doing a really good vocal performance. It's a very it's a very understated Bob Dylan, which is needed for a role like that. It's just that Bob Dylan was a troll and Timothy Shallamey is a little angel, you know.

Like you know Bob Dylan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and that's the thing. When you cast Austin Butler's Elvis, it's like, Okay, Elvis was a good looking guy, so you cast a good looking guy. Yeah, but like Emma Stone as Billy Jean King, are you kidding?

Kidding's own book? But but Gary Oldman at a quick glance looks looks like Sid Vicious with his sunglasses on. Oh yeah, yeah there's unglasses off. Maybe not so much. But when he's on stage and the cameras in the back of the auditorium, yes, he looks just like.

Yes, very similar. But when you get up close. But that's the thing, he has the energy he I think he embodies the energy perfectly. That's that for me. Is I think what what really comes through and look like looking like him or not doesn't really matter.

I was I was being facetious because he captures the energy of Sid Vicious perfect which is much more important in a movie like this, because these are invocations of these people less like this is a one to one like, come on, nobody, that's not the fucking point. Anyways, You're telling a love story surrounding these two people. You know, Gary old hates this movie eight. Yes, But would you like to tell the audience at home what Gary Oldman hates? Well, he hates punk rock.

First of all, he's never into punk. They didn't like it and didn't get it. I just get it, didn't like the story. And then I think part of it is that he heard about it forever. I think, I think for the next ten years.

Every interview he did included let's talk about Sid Nancy. Oh Really Love You? In the sex Pestose movie. The fucking the accents in this movie are off the cha baby, They're all over them. We get like the dirty scuzs to the non scus.

I love it. My favorite performance in the movie, aside of the leads, obviously, is I believe his name is Andrew sco Failed or Skofeld. He plays John Lyde and John Rotten in the movie. He's He's almost a better Jounery Rotten than Johnny Rout. He's such an asshole.

I mean they all are. I love it. I mean, look, I guess when you were around someone like like like Sid Vicious, you probably had your patience worn down real quick, right, Like that's. You know, yeah, but you know, here's the thing though, you know those two were friends, like they like like John got him into the sex Pistols because he wanted to friend around, like because it wasn't his band. And and and I know that I know that John Lydon has to on some level.

I don't know to how much this to this day, but you know, feels guilty for pulling Sid into the band, right well, who would say, you know, but no, I love their relationship. I love how annoyed he can be with them, but like you can tell that that's just John Lydon in general, and the fact that he's still hanging around with him tells you that he loves them, you know. Like, well that's the thing, Like I was going to say, like, I think we all have a friend like Sid Vicious. Maybe as we've gotten older we should not, but I think we all have like that still. We all might have that one friend who's like kind of just like a lot all the time, Like it's a jig man, yeah, Like and it's like like and you know, sometimes I think I I think sometimes I think that you've gone all the way to the bottom of the well, the barrel has been scraped, and yet there's somehow something subterranean here, Like that's yeah, I know, someone like Sid Vicious.

When I say that there are people out there, much to the chagrin one of those two people, it's like, you're just whatever universe you fucking came from. I don't think that. I don't think that the world realizes how lucky it is that you're the only one who's here, because we couldn't deal with more than one of you around here. And Sid Vicious, I mean, like for all of the pomp and bullshit that may have come with him, like he was a lot as a human being, clearly that's okay parts of Sid Vicious. Sid Vicious was a lot like Johnny Rotten.

I mean, look, he's still around, he's still kicking it. Like he he figured it out eventually, like you know, at some I mean, and that's the thing in the movie, it's clear that they're already figuring it out that like we need to stay away from Sid Vicious. He's kind of kind of, kind of not able to get his shit together. Ever, Yeah, you know that. Oh my god.

You know, there's so many fucking poetical moments in this movie, Like when Sid is on his downward spiral and there's a John Kale song playing, there's a montage of like, you know, money tumbling through space and in him my days too drunk and he's trying to read the lyrics and you can't even fucking mica And they cut to John Lyden who's in the bar just like watching him, and he's just so disgusted. He gets up and walks out, like, oh my god. Yeah, that scene is particular. He said, We've got you some performances, and he's just like too drunk to stand, too high to function. Yeah, I've gone there before, but like I'm not expected to go up on stage and dance around while doing it, so Jesus.

Yeah, but that's the thing. I mean, that's why I said, like, you know, Sid ultimately like in a lot of ways, he's kind of the I don't know, like, let's talk about the thing that I think is the saddest part of the movie for me overwhelmingly, and I think I think it goes to the Sid vicious of it all. Really in this scene, so they go and visit her family. It truly is the best part of the movie. It's like the greatest part of the movie because it's like, what what would happen if you went and took your crazy significant other with you to your overwhelmingly normal family's house, who, by the way, are still normal, and you are, in fact no longer normal if you ever were, because you were probably the black sheep of the family.

It's the funniest part of the movie. It is high comedy, but it's also so fucking sad because the scene where he's passed out in the chair, which is not a great look, and then with drinking peppermin schnaps of all fucking things, like the worst of the worst things to just be like fucked up one and she comes in, you know, they come in there to talk to her, and she's just like, oh, why are you kicking it? Like they're they're trying to without saying as much like Harry and the Henderns, Harry and the Henderson's are like, we want you to fucking leave, Can you fucking leave now? And it's so it would be fun for you to stay in a hotel, yeah, far away from here, and we'll put you in a cab and say. It's like it's the funniest part of the movie, but it's also so fucking sad because then it cuts to this scene of the two of them sitting in bed, and that, for me is the poetic scene where they're sitting in bed and she's just like, because they know me, that's why they threw us out, and he's and he's so nonplussed.

He's just like, what while they throw us out? It's just like, oh man, you're really that You're really that gone? Huh Like all right. No, the sadness there is how excited Nancy is to be back home. Uh huh.

Yeah, well ultimately that too. And look they are just being themselves. But my favorite part of that scene is how into it the like her younger brothers are like that. You know, they're delighted with the spectacle going on in their living room. Wouldn't you like, holy shit, like suspicious is in my house?

Like it must have been great, you know, it's been wild. Yeah, but it's so sad because you see, like, because you see, as do I, the way sometimes the rest of the world looks at people like us, and it's like you know, cause again, like it's a microcosm of the rest of the movie, right, Like these are very quote normal, well adjusted people who can't be bothered to be honest with these two people that are in their house who have done nothing wrong. Really, Like, I mean, I don't they're the most reserved. They are the entire movie at their house, Like he's just drinking alcohol, which, to be fair, how many families at the holidays have people passed out from drinking alcohol in the living room. Anyways, That's what I don't get.

It's like it's so weird because they're so awful to them for no reason. It's so sad. It's like, again, it's like a microcosm of the way we treat people like this in general. But watching her own family do it to her is just like it's the worst. It's super sad because it's like, these are the one group of people in the world that should have your back, and instead it's sid vicious who ultimately has your back, which is saying something, isn't it.

Sit, You're gonna make an honest woman out of our Nancy, She's never lyed to me. So sad, it's so sad. It's like, it's like this guy is so sad. He's so sad, isn't he He's like the original mopey rock star. Oh oh no?

Yeah, but I just love him. Yeah no, I know, like I love how sad and miserable and pathetic he is. It's like that that's on stage. Shit was just an act. Brother, he was like the saddest dude on the planet.

Clearly, I love all the flavors of Sid Vicious. You know, the padlock around Gary Oldman's neck is Sid's. Right, his real his real padlock, right. Yeah, Abby Will told me, like Sid's mom came to say and like gave it to him. That's say I could use it.

That's a great shame that Gary Oldman doesn't look yeah, man, Like that's probably the biggest bummer for. Me, you know, you know, like, you know, he just didn't want to do this movie, and but he took it because he's an actor and work an actor and it's a fucking role and whatever, and he did a good job. But like, what goes to working actor playing Sid Vicious in a fucking movie? Be a working actor, I guess, baby. Look at the rest of his career though, Like he doesn't come close to one of these roles anymore.

Well, that's so, That's what I was going to ask you, because again you know the diary ogment of it out. What is what is for you? Like? Is this the quintessential Gary Oldman role? And if and if it's this one, let's remove this one from the equation and let's talk broadly about mister Gary Oldman, who again in this movie is very Gary Youngman, a good rap group Barry, Gary Youngman and Gary Oldman.

Here's the thing about Garylman. He was very actorly in his younger years, right, so's even put he put in some really great performances. But I think he's gotten better and better with age, which I guess is the point of life, right of But if I were to point to his early performances, I find myself I think him and Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead. Like that's the one I think of when I think of young Garielman. I don't even think of him in Sid Nancy.

I just think of Sid Vicious when I think of this movie. Gary Olelman kind of doesn't even factor into the movie anymore in my mind. You know what, I mean like he might have to be. He's it's part and Parcel I have. To be reminded of Chloe Webb's name, not I don't you know.

I know, I get, but I get you like they're they're they're just part of it. If when I put the movie on, it's Sid and it's Man, and that's all there is to it. Right, it's not Gary Oldman as Sid. So from yeah, from early performance, I would definitely say Rose Cris Dead from like the nineties nineties, Gary Oldman probably fifth element, just because he's so weird in it and appropriate, Like I think he's at it. I was just about to say, I think he's at his worst in the Professional I think I think you know, it's funny, Chris.

I went to see UH an early screening of The Professional for for bookers for movie theater bookers, and I went with my piled CARDI and we walked out of the theater and I said, what do you think? And he said, I think Gary Oldman's gonna die because that that was like at the height of all of his problems like that, that was when he was at the most drunk and drugged out stuff, Like he went to Rehab directly after that movie. But I just thought that was really funny, like, yeah, he looked kind of rough, like that didn't seem all like performance there. He was not Gary Oldman was in fact not having a good time. That's the great moment I get sweating for me.

Really, Oh my god, he's so sweety in that. Yeah, that's all I think of when I think of that movie, is him just being sweaty as fuck. Like and then late era, I guess I think of him as Commissioner Guard, and I thought he was a really good commissioner Guard. Dude. I mean, you know, I think I've been watching stuff about those Nolan Batman movies.

I don't know why, but it's kind of made me want to rewatch them, only because like not to give them another chance per se, because look, I'm not going to sit here and be like they're not good. It's not that they're not good movies, just don't like that version of Batman, like it's it's a Batman. I think now I could probably look back at it, removed from everything and go, this is a Batman of a certain time, of a certain place. For post nine eleven America is really what it's for like Batman as a tool of the US government broadly, or you know, government broadly, especially in that fucking second movie, which is kind of part of the whole point of that movie. Interestingly, the Nolan Batman movies kind of echo late seventies Batman in the comics.

That's when they kind of turned Batman into James Bond. That's when he moved out of Gotham City and suddenly there's the League of Assassins and then there's you know, rash Ah Ghoul and all that shit. And to me, that was the most boring run of the comics, and they know, consequently the most boring run of the movies. If Batman isn't patrolling around Gotham beating a penguins, I don't really give a shit, you know, like I don't need him going to Hong Kong or something to like pull people out of skyscrapers with jets and like, what the fuck is happening here? It's Iron Man.

I mean it's great. I mean again, I go back to the thing I think I said on that Batman Returns episode. How did nobody just go the really rich guy's Batman? Right? Like, yeah, right.

Now, in those movies, it's like super fucking obvious, like the rich guy with all the money can make the cool cars and flying things like and then he disappears in dark Knight rises like what are you guys a bunch of flugging brons like put this is their conspiracy theories in our world right now that are less tenuist than this, Like you fucking idiots, like my god, oh my god, come on, Oh millionaire disappears, superhero disappears in the same day. Might have been the same person. I don't know, No, couldn't never. You know, that's the problem with DC and generalists, that they're still stuck on on secret identities. Yeah, I thought that that was the real innovation with Marvel, Like that's why that first Iron Man movie is so fucking important, is because he's like, I am iron Man.

From now on, our heroes are going to be our fucking heroes, and we know the perils that come with our families and all that shit, but we're confident enough in our heroism to fucking triumph. And meanwhile, over at d C, Clark Kent is still trying to fool everyone with fucking glasses. What Superman Clark Kent is not. They're not the same person. Have you ever seen them in the same place at the same time?

Good lord, that digression. Aside, Gary Oldman's great in those Batman movies. But I mean, you know how many you know how many people are in those Batman movies, like fucking Gary Oldman, Michael Caine, Morgan Gerryman, Killian murt Killian Murphy's in all three. There's so many p It's like the at the end of the day, it's like those movies are a trove of riches anyway, so of course they're good. Yeah, I don't know, Gary Oldman.

For me, there's the Harry Potter of it all. Serious Black is a fine performance. It's the Han Solo of the Harry Potter movies. Really, well, even less than Han Solo. Han Sol is kind of a cool character.

Sirius Black has a cool name, and they allude to the cool character. These more cool in the books than he is in the movies. The movies allude to a lot of cool stuff the books actually play it. I mean, you know what I mean, why you can't Gary Oldman? Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, you know what.

I if I could have that wanted poster where he's like kind of like shrieking it. Yeah, if I could, I would put that on my Well, that's pretty great. I was gonna say that is one of the iconic pieces of Gary Oldman technology. And by the way, motherfucker twenty fourteen's RoboCop did in fact star Gary Oldman. I was right.

I was right, and you like talked me out of it and I was like, wait a second. No, So he plays he plays the guy who makes RoboCop. Michael Keaton plays the CEO of Omniicourt. All right, why did we need any We didn't. It was a terrible idea and execution.

Joel Kinneman everybody, and I love Joel Kinman. Yeah, he's not terrible. I don't think any of those well, there are of those actors. Sam Worthington is one. Of the ones that show.

Did you watch that show with Joe. The Crossings, No, it's a murders, the one with Gillian Anderson or the one that was in the one that was in like in his native Sweden. He was in the original Swedish one and then he was in the American remake. I'm talking about the American remake. Okay, I don't know.

Maybe we aren't telling. You about He's great in both it like the or something Killing Yeah TV series. Yeah, I have not seen it, but I he's he's great in that suicide squad. Watch the Killing, Bro. This is Katana him though, this is Katana God, that is Joel.

Get him in for the record, everybody got. Oh man, it's great. He's great. Look imagine being forced to say those words and like and like, well, yeah, we're making fun of it, but not because of him. No, the line reading solid.

Yeah, Gary, oldman. He's been in a lot of stuff. He has. They they haven't gotten him into the marble yet of it all, but he's been in the DC so he doesn't have to. He's getting money still.

He's getting did his time in Superheroville. Yeah, yeah, they can cast I Actually, what's funny is, if I sit and think about it, he also looks the most like Commissioner Gordon out of any actor that's ever played him, like like the comic book version, at least for a certain time in a certain place. Like Yeah, just the glasses and the hair and the like the facial hair, just everything. It's like yeah, kind of Gary, It's it is kind of just Gary Oldman. Yeah.

I mean, look, all we've gotten beforehand is uh the horrible the you know, the sixty sixth version, which is fine comic book. But then uh, well we had Pat Hengle as commissioner book. Oh yeah in the bat in the Burton movies. Did he carry over? Was there?

I don't think they even? Was there a Commissioner Garden in the Jill Schumacher. I think it was Pat Ingle, and then GoF come back for those subsequent field Yeah. So then the next one we get is that dude, Gary old mat. Gary Oldman, and then after him we oh and then.

We got Jeffrey Wright, who's a really good But there was one in between, which one was that. That was the that was the Snyder verse one. The Ben ben Affleck had a Commissioner Gordon. Do you remember who was commission. J Simmons Simmons, Buff JK.

Simmons and a slouch hat in a trench coat. Well they had to put in now that he's Buffy can be Santa Claus. That was the long con. He's like, I want to play Santa Claus, so I'm gonna get Buff to play Commissioner Gordon because that's what people wanted. Commissioner Gordon, who could break the joker's neck.

Yeah, I'm looking at him like going like, who needs badman out of the way. He's yoked, motherfucker. You got this Thowe ben Affleck over here. JK. Simmons is bending steel off to the side.

Look. JK. Simmons is great, but you know he's already fucking Perry White and that's all he needs to be, not Gary. Excuse me, J Jones, Jamison, Jesus Christ. Yeah, right, you got he is the perfect j Jonas jameson Gary Oldman, Gary Oldman, Like, I think he is the perfect Commissioner Gordon.

I think Gary Oldman look and is because that's the other thing, like his personal problems aside of which he has had many that resurfaced when he won his OSCAR. I think Gary Oldman's a great actor, and I think that this movie is carried by two great actors, because, like we've already alluded to, Chloe Webb really is probably better than Gary Oldman. Really, I mean, oh, she definitely is. She's she's been given less opportunities to be the star actor in stuff. I mean again, Holiday in Paramus, Like.

Yeah, she look crazy to me. That that's what I know her from. Like it is because like I, like I said before, like I had to sit and stare at her a bunch and be like, oh okay, like I've not never seen her seen her in anything where anyone's given her any time to do anything. It was like a fucking throwaway gag in Ghostbusters too. When I saw Ghostbusters two in the theater and she came out and we're like what he like that?

And everyone in the theater turned elected me. That's what I was gonna ask, Like, you had to have like recognized her because this this came before that. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I love when she's the only other thing I can really think of her in was Practical Magic. She's one of the aunts in Practical Magic. Oh and she was in.

She's My God. You're right? Wow are Yeah, You're right? Okay. Practically I'm gonna be watching that next month.

All right, that's a good movie. What are you doing? That's a good movie. Broadly, I'm excited to talk about it, but it's also one of those movies that next month was programmed eight months ago. Yeah, gotcha?

Yeah, super duper fun, as we would all say, like, you know, see, I was able to avoid it with January of this year. I was able to pivot, but then October it's like, there's not any real pivoting out of this because all of these are too obvious a choices. And it's like Practical mat is a good movie. You know, I just didn't. I didn't remember.

It's her and Stocker chanting, right, yep, gotcha? Okay. Wow. She was also in a movie that I liked when I saw it initially, and then when I rewatched it, I was like, what were you thinking? A movie called Queen's Logic.

It's it's sort of like a slice of Life. A bunch of fucking jamokes in in Queen's and like, you know, oh, it's like, oh it's oh my. God, it's got Kevin Baige in. Is he going a Brooklyn accent? Oh?

You'd better believe everyone just doing a an accent in that movie. Linda Fiorentino, Hey, Yoe, web it's just like my well she was also. Chloe Webb was also in the award winning American Film Institute Classic Hurt Condition, the film where Bob Hoskins plays Hoskins a cough and Denzel Washingtons ghost. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh geez loie. Yeah, she's but but you know what, like I think, like we both kind of already alluded to she's better than Gary Oldman because I think you expect less from her and she she has a lot more heavy lifting because he's clearly having the time of his life.

He may not have liked performing as Sid Vicious, but he's having a good time. My The version that they do Ofway in the movie is I think for me the scene the scene of the movie right, pretty great, Yeah, quite good. It's another another of those moments, another of those poetical moments, because uh, you know that's that's in the movie The Great rock and Roll Swindle, that his version of Byway, like that that was film for for their movie. But you know, it certainly doesn't end with Nancy coming up those stairs and then those lights clacking off one after another. Oh my god, it's so gorgeous.

Here's okay, other beautiful moments in the movie. During the boating sequence at the end, they get back to the docks and the police are raiding the boats and it's just a two shot of them pulling them and it just stays on them the whole time as they slowly descend the gang plank, move across the dock, and then ascend another gangplank up onto the street, and everything around them is total motherfucking chaos with everyone being beaten and like dragged off by the police. Everyone's writing and screaming, the police are chasing people around them. It's like, it's like, I don't know. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I get it.

I get what you're getting at. Okay. So not only that, but. The movie did the heavy lifting for you in this, in this. Situation, for that scene in particular, like if I don't know, like I don't like to say things like you know, you don't have a heart if you don't like if that doesn't do it for you, But like if that doesn't do it for you, then I don't know that I can talk on a romantic level with you, like you know, like that.

It's it's just and I haven't mentioned we haven't mentioned the music for this movie. Obviously, it's Waldwall Sex Pistols and a couple of the covers like the Simicky pop covers and stuff like that, but the actual music for the movie. It was written by Prey for Rain which is a little band consisting of Abul's brother. I believe Xander Schloss is in that band, and so that anytime you hear an instrumental track, well that's not true. Anytime you hear this is hard because the music is credited to Pray for Rain Joe Strummer and the Poe Right, So when Sid Vicious does Heroin for the first time, there's a track playing that's the Pogues.

But like that fucking gorgeous wide angle lens scene of when they're touring America for the first time and with the bus keeps disappearing under the hills and the helicopters flying behind, so gorgeous that that track is called Chinese Choppers, that's Pray for Rain. I just want to mention how awesome Pray for Rain is as a band, Like they're completely unheralded. They only did a few soundtracks, but I encourage everyone to seek them out. I'm sure you can Spotify, playlist them or something. But like all of their work is so evocative and wonderful.

And in the scene we're talking about as well. I love the music in the movie, I mean, and I love that they actually had Gary Oldman sing oh yeah, I mean he does a good job. I look, punk unk music wasn't about being able to be the most talented singer, and so it was about the most energy that you could bring and the kind of what you're doing on stage. And I think, you know, I think Gary Oldman, we're so I Sid Vicious well enough, and I think the voice is close enough, close your eyes. No, I mean it's his voice, that's the thing, Like.

Not whiny enough. Is that what it is? Of course he has a better singing voice than Sid Vicious. Like, all you gotta do is listen to the end of the Goodfellas. That's the Sid Vicious version, right, Yeah.

It's yeah, yeah, I mean I was gonna say, that's what ties this to one of my two mon to a movie that is important to me is the end of Goodfellows with My Way, which is the best version of the song as far as i'm is that. The best version of My Way? Yeah? Probably it is. For me.

It's the version that makes the most sense because of the the juxtaposition of the punk with the fucking originally. To be honest, I listened to this soundtrack version more than I've ever listened to the Sid Visions Swam Oh really, Oh yeah, I mean I had The Great Rock and Roll Swindle. Like It's one of the first CDs I bought. I was so excited. I went into I went into yeah, Tower Tower Records in on Newbury Street in Boston.

I bought The Great Rock and Roll Swindle as an import. I was so stoked. And I and and I got a cassette with The Bill Grundy Interview, which is they featured in the film where they cut to a clip of them on television like being interviewed and like Steve Jones is like, you know, leaning into the camera and like swearing. That was a famous thing that happened on national television in Britain. I guess in seventy six, the Bill Grundy thing.

Then I think they made an entire movie. About that, right, Yeah, that's not surprising. Like a BBC TV movie or something like that, about the Bill Grundy Interview. Starring Bob Hoskins as Sid Vicious in the role he was meant to play. Baby, who would you cast as Sid Vicious in the nineties, like you know, nineties, Yeah, like say, we say, we took this movie a couple of years forward we still cast Gary.

Old Yeah, of course, no, I don't know because by no, because like by ninety three he's all looking fucking pretty bad man. I mean he's his baby faced here. It works like. Yeah, he's treating himself pretty poorly. He looked too bad to play a junkie.

You know what they say, Gary Oldman. You might not have liked playing said Vicious, but you sure did live the lifestyle there for a while afterwards. So maybe it's like that Austin Butler, like his voice became Elvis thing like Gary Oldman just became said Vicious for a while. I'll let him go. No, probably said staling me.

Oh, failing hate tugs at me out strings. No, you know, like the next year he's doing Rostacrats and Field and are you Yeah. Yeah, it's so different to compare to this, like God, good lord, anything else we want to talk about with Sid and Nancy. It's just endlessly beautiful, I mean, filmmaking wise. Yeah, there's so much gorgeous photography in this movie, so many beautiful scenes in the movie.

Uh, you know, and the ending obviously, like that's to me. I I walked out of that theater, so it elated so uplifted at the end of a murder suicide. Right, it was not lost on me how good I felt walking out having watched a murder suicide at the end of this movie. And maybe that's what Alex Cox is like saying in that he fucked up the ending, like maybe he couldn't have had the taxicab to Heaven, but you know what, he did have the goddamn taxicab to Heaven. And here pray for Rain returns with that.

That's a Pray for Rain track called Taxicab to Heaven. And oh my god, I cried so fucking hard when that cab. I might do it now when he moved, when he leans into that window and she's in, there's just smiling, she's so she's so excited to see him. It's just it's kind of everything you hope the after life would be. And they don't have to say anything to one another either, which is the part that I really appreciate.

There's there's no and put on it. No her look to him, his look to her. That's it, Like that's what life's all about, right I think? So, I mean that's why I mean, like I said, I'd never seen this movie before. But I've watched it several times last couple of days, and it's a I wonder how I would have appreciated it six months ago, let's put it that way, and now I have to appreciate it in a completely different context, and that that is okay.

But I think to your point, this is an immensely romantic Remo movie in a way that one might not think when you immediately hitch it as this kind of story. But I think by the end of it, if you're not on board with it, you probably want to go watch something a little bit more pastoral, because this is not going to be your speed. So there's something that about apocalyptic love that just gets me where I live. Love in the face of everything ending is the greatest kind of love. And if it's self imposed apocalypse, even better.

Amen. Amen, that's the only guys, it's. All we're really, We're out. So we keep being promised to an apocalypse and it just keeps not coming. I wish these doom sayers would get their shit together and fucking name the date already.

I was about to say, because I think I've gone through some personal apocalypses this year, and I didn't see those dates anywhere, so maybe they could have changed a date looked a little harder. But yeah, the reality of the reality of an actual apocalypse is a lot less I guess real to me than the personal one, which I mean, this is what this movie's kind of getting at. Like, when you're love with this person is so kind of nuclear that it destroys everything and anything around you, you kind of don't care. It's kind of okay, that's kind of the point. It's all consuming, which you know, I get it.

So Father Malone, I'll give you the last word and then we'll go to ads. In a preview for the second to last episode for September. This isn't everyone's cup of tea. I get that, and I don't expect anyone to have as important and impact on their lives as this movie had for me. All I can hope is to encourage people to see it and see romance from a different point of view maybe, and I don't know, you know, ultimately it'll resonate with like with the people it's going to resonate.

It's like we were saying about, you know, would this movie inspire somebody to go do heroin? No? Probably not, But would it resonate with somebody who thinks that love can be like this and that's acceptable, then yeah, then that will affect them, but not in any kind of negative or self destructive way. Like this movie doesn't make me want to throw my life away for love either, you know what I mean. Like this movie just highlights the importance of it.

So go see said Nancy, get you on the other side of the break. Hi. I'm Susan and I'm Sharon and we're the hosts of. Eighties tv Ladies. Check us out wherever you find your favorite podcasts, and please like and follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

At Eighties tv Ladies, you can. Find interviews and exclusive behind the scenes content on all of your favorite eighties tv ladies. Eighties tv Ladies is the place to go. Please join us. Hi, Hi, this is HP from Noise Junkies and this is fatherm Alone from Dark Destinations.

Please join us as we examine one of the greatest sitcoms in television history, Taxi on Night. Mister Walters at Taxi Podcast. Good night, mister Walters, good earning, and welcome to Night's Gallery. Thank you, Rod, and I want to welcome everyone to Midnight Viewing, where once a month we talk all about your follow up to the Twilight Zone Rod Serling's Night Gallery. They say it's Rod Serling's Night Gallery, and it isn't really rod Zulei's Night Gallery.

It's somebody else's. Oh we know, we talk about it a lot. Your curators at midnight Viewing are the Projection Boots, Mike White. What can happen to human beings when trust is wiped out by suspicion? And culture casts, Chris Stature, Small Boy incasionally Crystal Ball, and I'm Father Malone, the.

Kind of thing that usually infests nightmares. Join us monthly at midnight viewing. The Night Gallery podcast at Weirdingwaymedia dot Com doesn't remotely belong to me. I have no proprietary interest in that at all. There are things known and things unknown, and in between you.

And all of Stone Film. The Doors are scene March first at theaters everywhere. So that's right on the actually the final episode of September. There will be a bonus episode available at Patreon dot com which you can check out for the five dollars level or higher ten dollars or higher gets you ranking on Bond, which Father Malone has also been on But that's right on the next episode of the Culture Cast that you can find on the normal feed, it's going to be The Doors, another movie about music. Were Bio We were two movie.

You you could have done like a half bio pic month you had half of it. Batman returns in The Untouchables. I'm actually brother. You programmed three of four. Now, touch Uples is kind of a biohi, Yeah, especially the kind we were talking about of a specific time, in a specific place, in a specific event.

Even that's true. And Martin, Martin, you could consider pretty autobiographical about George Morrow because he was a young vampire. Well and now he's just a vampuot. Yes, I hope he's out there right now sucking someone's blood. Living his life, living his best life in Upstate New York.

The ultimate irony about the undead life of Georgia Morrow's. He did not become a zombie. He became a vampire, right. Wouldn't that be a fucking shame? He just looks around, He's like, God, damn it.

But you will be joining me on the episode for the Doors and for Martin. So until then, Father Malone, where can people find you? And your audio wares well. Definitely tune into that Doors episode because I have an interview with screenwriter screenwriter Randall Johnson. An interview on a culture cast.

That's a first in a very long time. I know I needed to talk to him very badly about that movie. Uh, you can find it Weirdwaymedia dot com. Same place you can find this show, and you find it out on all the podcasters and all that thing that's midnight viewing. That's the show Chris mentioned at They're getting I do twice a week Monday, I do a wrap up show.

We're weekly round up, as it were, of new and streaming features and sometimes very very old features. I do that with my dog Ripley, my little pug, co host. And on Fridays we have an alternating show, the Horror Anthology Podcast, which is a television horror television review show which Chris and Mike White from the Projection Booth and I do about right now, we're doing Tales from the Dark Side, And you can also hear Anthologies Attack, which is about anthology movies of every variety, which I co host with Antonio Lapour. Check me out over there midnight viewing, everybody. And As for me, you can find me at weirding Way Media.

Like Father Malone mentioned, that's the only place that you can find me. You will not find me down at your local War's store buying underwear like Sid Vicious because that man wore some interesting underwear. Oh beautiful, beautiful stuff. You won't find me there, But you'll find me at weirdingweemedia dot com. Like rate and review the show, this show on iTunes please, That is the best place to leave a review, pretty much the only placed.

And yeah, Father Bullan, thank you for programming the month. Sticking around doing the month. You don't have to do it if you program it, it's not a requirement, but I appreciate it when everybody does. And as always, catch him the next episode.