Rings of Power S2E3 Recap: "The Eagle and the Sceptre"

Welcome to the Podcast of Power, the only podcast on the entire internet, the entire planet, if you will, that speaks about the Lord of the Rings, the Rings of Power. It's just me. It's just my friend, Chris. We're the only people that are talking about this show. How you doing, Chris?

I actually might believe. I'm convinced you're right, because I have, once again, with this episode we're going to talk about at the Rings of Power TV show, I haven't heard anything about any of this. I'm probably going to say this at least one more time on this show, but this show is not bad. What the hell was the problem? People just hated casting people of color that much that they just didn't ever give it a chance, or whatever.

I don't understand. Or is it the it's on Prime video of it all, which I was lamenting with you before we started recording, which is I already pay you $ 100 a year. Why do you need more fucking money from me so I can watch your content ad-free? It doesn't make me like your content if you're forcing me to watch ads with it. I'm already paying you.

So Amazon Prime, I'm not a huge fan of their platform as it is. So.... I wouldn't be surprised if we're the only podcast that exists because I don't know how many people are actively searching this show out. So you might not. Well, that's why our numbers are through the roof.

Somebody's roof. Yes. Well, it's very easy when you're in the basement. We are talking about the third episode of the second season. And this one is called The Eagle and the Scepter.

It was co-directed by Louise Hopper and Charlotte Brandstrom and written by Helen Schenck. That's probably the other thing, man. We got a bunch of women that are writing and directing this. How dare they? How dare they try to come into this male-dominated industry?

Don't they know what happens when you're a Kathleen Kennedy type? You just get blamed for everything. How dare they? I mean, again, you know, I go back to why nobody was watching the show when it first came out. It's because there was a black dwarf.

That black dwarf also happened to be a woman. So I don't think... Oh, yeah. Well, we've got two of the worst offenders on this episode. We've got the Queen of Numenor, and we've got the return of Erendir, who I just usually call the Woodland Elf.

But he does have a name. I just always forget it because he kind of doesn't really have a whole lot of personality. I'm still waiting for him to maybe even crack a smile at some point. Very stoic elf we have here. But I forgot that Bronwyn died last season, or did she just catch...

I won't be back for the next season-itis. I have to go now. My planet needs me. I'm off to the other shore. No, she's dead.

And I do remember her not doing too well with the explosion of Mount Doom, so I just had forgotten, I reckon. So, not a huge loss for me, because I liked Bronwyn, but again, I feel like this whole Southland tales, to talk about Richard Kelly, I think that This is probably the weakest part of the show with Erendir, Bronwyn, and Theo. They're trying to make it a little bit better, and they have brought back Ilsador and showed him up at this place. And we get to see a lot of the stuff around the Wild Men. And, of course, we don't get a whole lot of them in Lord of the Rings other than them swearing allegiance to Saruman at one point.

You gotta say. Saruman. Saruman. Yeah. I always think of that and the Uruk-hai when it's just like, I serve Saruman.

Yeah. I just love the wild Saruman. Oh, my God. Those wigs. Like, The Lord of the Rings has those great cutaways, right?

I mean, and that's, for me, like, one of the things about those movies is just we get to see, like, well, they're working for Saruman, and then we see that moment. And I would say that the show succeeds in that point. You mentioned the thing about Bronwyn. The actress, Nazanin Boniadi, essentially took a break from acting. Oh, okay.

So. At the end of the first season, her fate is left indeterminate. And I was really bummed that she died because now we're stuck with Theo. Theo. Oh, Theo.

She is a flat character. What a really flat character. And one that is, I think, kind of uninteresting, frankly, without Bronwyn there to balance out how uninteresting he is. Though he could. He's got the potential of being one of the most interesting people because he did a very bad thing.

And he realizes that he did a bad thing. And he basically set all of this stuff in motion by his weakness of character. So I was like, okay. When he kind of confesses that to Aaron Deere in the previous season, I was like, oh, okay. He's actually going to fess up to this and recognizes that he's a piece of shit.

But that's it. That's it. Yeah, that's it. That's the problem. That needs to be the starting place, not the ending.

We get some shading there. but very little. Like when he pretends that he's one of the wild men and comes in and he shows his OG markings, he's just like, hey man, I got the original tat here and they're just like, that doesn't look like the mark of Atar. Come on, dude. He doesn't know that. He's like, well, this is Sauron's mark.

It's interesting because I'm glad that they've re-brought up this idea of the two kind of warring factions within this world because we've had Adar and the orcs who broke off from Sauron because Sauron wanted to just subjugate the orcs and Adar did not want to subjugate the orcs. And in that kind of the great schism, as it were, Sauron is kind of in this weird spot where he's going to we know he's going to reingratiate himself with the orcs. We know that. because of where the franchise heads. But it's interesting right now that we get to see like the orcs are bad, but they're not as bad as Sauron. And they're kind of working in parallel to him is what it feels like, because their goals and his goals are not the same at all.

Like I'm not sure exactly what their goals are, but his goals are complete subjugation of Middle Earth. I don't think the orcs could do that even if they wanted. They hadn't been able to up until this point anyway. Well, that's why they have to align themselves with all the rednecks, who are what I consider the wild men to be. They probably get together in the trailer park, they listen to some Leonard Skinner, they drink some brews, and maybe watch the game, and then they're having a good old time having a hootenanny afterwards.

Is that any better, any worse than Celebrimbor and Sauron getting the dwarfs to expose how weak in character that they are? At least Doran the Third, not Doran the Fourth, but Doran the Third once again showing that he is truly weak of character, which is amusing given that he is the one kind of bemoaning his son as not being as strong as he is. Well, frankly, I was very surprised because I felt that Durin IV was so angry at his father and the way that his wife keeps talking to him. I described her either in the last episode or the episode before as being like a Lady Macbeth because of the way that she just was kind of pouring some bad words into him. But then suddenly in this one, she's just, okay, I don't trust what's going on and yeah, your father, yeah, he's kind of weak of character and all these things, and it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, I thought you were all about, like, gaining power and doing whatever it took.

I was really expecting her to be like, well, you know, during the fourth, gotta get one of these rings, and yeah, this ring thing sounds fantastic, let's do it. Like, I was figuring, since they sent the invitation, Celebrimbor and Sauron, or what's his new name, the Giver of Gifts? Anatoly. Annatar, that they sent this invite, I was just like, well, this is a perfect opportunity for her to be like, okay, Durin, don't tell your dad, and hey, we happen to know where this big supply of Mithril is, so we can usurp everything. But instead, it's still the opposite.

So I felt like that wasn't true to the tone of the previous episodes, or maybe I was just reading it wrong. But I have a feeling I'm reading this stuff okay. Well, and I... I would go as far as to say that in my mind, it's a little bit of both. It does seem like a little bit of kind of like a twist, as it were, where it's like, well, see, Durin IV is actually the upstanding one.

And they do have a problem with this and they don't want to do this. But I think, I don't know. i guess the one thing i go back to is this underlying theme of the mithril and the mithril is clearly something worth protecting and disa and during the fourth i feel like as characters they're aware of that and during the third is just willing to part with it because his time on earth is kind of or middle earth seemingly short shorter or any and. My boy's still got a couple hundred years left. Doesn't he i don't know I mean, dwarfs, I don't know if they... I think dwarfs are like men in terms of the way that they age.

I don't think they're like elves. So I could be wrong, but I don't know. Like, it's one of those things where it does feel like a little bit of a twist, but I don't know. During the I think this more or less in my mind cements during the fourth as like a character at the level of Elrond where he's had that like test of of will and he passed it. Right.

And I'm kind of with you. Like, I think it's interesting that they don't have him. succumbing to anatar but someone was not going it's either going to be him or his father so i think it's interesting that they went with him because i think it shows you know the the level that his character is operating at is a level of like of an elrond in terms of like he's supposed to be just i think like unwavering good as opposed to galadriel who's kind of all over the place like elrond is during the fourth are now in my mind like these are the main good guy characters in the show. And I would say the, the elf as well. Uh, he, I would put him up there as well with like the main characters that are meant to be like unequivocally good.

No question. Um, can I say something though? And this, we haven't really talked about it because we haven't really had a chance to the new stuff. I am not. Oh, I know.

Right. It's kind of, yeah. It's just all this castle intrigue stuff where I'm like, I don't care. Like, and I don't even know the relationships of a lot of these people. They have a lot of them in this bar drinking and they're bad mouthing the queen and stuff.

And then one of Ilse's buddies pops up and he's just like, hey, man, you don't know what you're talking about. Our queen like rushed into this horrific situation when Mordor exploded and Mount Doom exploded. and kind of shuts them up, but not for long because they're right back at it. And the one woman who's just like, Oh, I know she's got a Palantir. The, the one guy is just like, well, I'm going to try to usurp the throne. What's his name?

Farazan, I guess. The one with the. Big, the great, the big, big bushy beard. Yeah. And when the Eagle shows up, I was just like, Oh, cool.

The Eagle showed up for the queen. And I was like, no, I guess he's here for Farazan. So I'm like, Way to go, Eagle. Fuckface. But yeah, no, all that stuff is pretty boring, and I kind of just hope they get back to Middle-earth soon.

And I don't care about her, frankly, like the Queen. I just want Ilsa Dora's dad to know that Ilsa Dora is alive, because he's suffering right now and has no idea that his kid's alive still. I assume, and I know that you have not watched it, so it will be me commenting on this. I assume that this is the part of the show that they were like, well, we got to have something. Game of Thrones.

Got to have a Game of Thrones castle intrigue. Or like Dune. Again, it was Dune, Game of Thrones. I mean, I wouldn't say there's any in Star Wars. There's not even any of this in Star Wars.

I feel like the stuff with the Senate and stuff is the prequel stuff. Yeah, well, yeah. I mean, because that really, it's a bigger part of the storyline, but they barely deal with it in the second and third movies. Basically, just Jar Jar... Yeah, just Jar Jar like, oh, I think we should have Palpatine.

He seems like a good guy. Like, way to go, Jar Jar. You're the eagle of Middle Earth. Here, come on. And then they sold Jar Jar down the river, by the way.

And Jar Jar became a homeless clown, turning tricks for pennies on the side of the road. Wow. Is literally what happens. That is canon. What?

Yeah, that is canon. He's not turning tricks as in a prostitute, but doing magic tricks for children as a hobo. Yeah, there was a book that was written either between the first and second sequel or the second and third sequel. where it was, like, stories from the Empire, and they were, like, short, little, like, anthology. It was an anthology-style book with a bunch of stories in it, and one of them is a story where this, like, little kid on the street in Naboo runs into Jar Jar. And Jar Jar is, like, a literal, like, homeless Gungan who's fallen on hard time.

Wow. Yeah. Which, I mean, again, goes back to what, like, Jar Jar is as a character, but We never get to that in Star Wars. And I think for the best, because in Lord of the Rings, it doesn't work like this. This doesn't work in this world.

I have no interest in this. Like it feels kind of at odds with what the show is presenting as the interesting parts. Of the story. And this is a whole storyline unto itself. I mean, there's a whole fifth of the show.

Oh, yeah. I mean, it's literally taking place on an island. So it still doesn't affect what other people are doing in Middle Earth. And by the way, I would have absolutely have been fine if we were watching the third of the sequel series of Star Wars and it ended up being Jar Jar who was behind the strings, you know, pulling everything, making those Snoke clones, all that kind of stuff. I would have accepted that better than Palpatine returning.

Mesa back! Yeah, I mean, I didn't believe... Mesa back! I didn't believe the whole Jar Jar. But I was like, you know what?

I could go for that easier than this character that I saw thrown down the Death Star, which subsequently blew up. I would see that better than Palpatine returning. I mean, to be fair, Darth Jar Jar was canon. And now it's technically canon because they made like a weird Star Wars multiverse series where they had Darth Jar Jar in it to the point where there is a Millennium Falcon that you can buy that has a Darth Jar Jar minifigure. Um, yeah.

Wow. Yeah. Oh yeah. It's a real, I almost bought it just because Darth Jar Jar is just such a meme unto itself. I think the thing.

Oh yeah. To go back to the Lord of the Rings show, Numenor is just Atlantis, right? Like in a lot of ways, like they're an Island unto themselves. Oh, nothing good is going to happen to these people because you know, where Isildur and his father end up, you, they talk about it right at the beginning of Lord of the Rings. You'd say it's almost, unavoidable.

So you know that Numenor must not exist at some point in the future. It just can't because clearly everyone is in Middle-earth doing something. So this is a story that we know will end a certain way. And even with that, they're like, well, we're going to put Castle Intrigue. It's like, but you know what?

Maybe just don't give it so much time. Or. don't introduce it for a while because it just is not interesting. I'm so glad Isildur is no longer in Numenor because we can just see him running around in Perth doing things. The Numenor stuff is without a doubt the weakest part of the show. Not only without a doubt, I think it's so weak that if you were to just have a show of that, I would see why people aren't watching this show.

But thankfully, the Numenor stuff is just in a few and far between that I can suffer through that if all the other stuff is entertaining as it is. Because the Numenor stuff is just not much of anything. Well, it's kind of funny because we were talking either the last episode or the one before about which characters we know are going to make it into the Lord of the Rings. And knowing that Il Sildur is going to make it, or at least his heir is going to make it, knowing that he's going to have a kid and he doesn't have one yet, I'm just like, all right, I know that you're not going to die here in Fanghorn Forest. It's so strange.

That goes through my head when I see him in danger. I'm just like, well, he's not in any danger. He's going to survive this. He's in no danger whatsoever. Right.

It was nice having Fanghorn Forest. It was nice. I think they're trying to play a little trick on us with this episode by introducing the hill troll pretty early in the episode, about 20 minutes in. And then at one point, when Theo is trying to pretend to be one of these wild men, the whole camp ends up getting slaughtered. And at one point, you see the camera lifts up from a great height, and you see him down below looking up.

And I think they wanted us to jump to, it's the hill troll, but my mind immediately went to what it was, which is, oh, it's an ant. Okay. Right. What else would it be in the forest in Lord of the Rings? I just, I don't know.

Like, again, stuff feels very much like for people that don't know Lord of the Rings, which I'm okay with. Like, I don't need it to go, well, you clearly know Lord of the Rings, so we're not even going to have any sort of intrigue as to what it is that grabbed Theo. Like, I like that the show actually goes, well, you know what? We can't assume everyone's seen Lord of the Rings, so let's make it where there's a little, you know, half of an episode's worth of intrigue as to what attacks theo and the wildness it's like duh but again like yes sure yeah if you're showing this show to your kids for the first time they're not gonna know that like or if you're watching this not being a super fan of lord of the rings like you and i are having read most everything that you can get your hands on at any point in our lives like you're gonna know where they are if there's some sort of higher elevation threat existing like come on we know what this is But I do like that they did a little bit of a bait and switch for the kind of, I wouldn't say the normal fans, but kind of the everyday people.

Yeah, I mean, that it's almost the exact same shot that we see of either Mary or Pippin when they see an Ent for the first time. It's like, oh, okay, well, that's kind of nice. Nice little visual rhyme. Speaking of visual rhymes, got a lot of, we're going to hang out by the side of this broken wagon and pretend that we're sick or injured kind of thing, because we've got that with the The girl that shows up in here, is it Ingrid? Astrid, thank you.

We've got Astrid kind of doing the... Mad Max Fury Road That's Bait kind of thing, but she jumps out of the side of the wagon, and then we get almost the exact same thing Like two minutes later, there's another wagon. In fact, I would say that it's probably the exact same wagon that they just redressed. It's now tipped over instead of on its side. And now we've got all these other wild men.

I'm just like, guys, like we just saw like literally five minutes ago in the show. So like, what are you trying to do? Yeah, I didn't understand. Yeah. Yeah.

And then I was like, oh, so is this guy going to now stab him in the. uh thigh just like uh astrid did or no no he's just gonna beat him and all the wild men are gonna come out kind of thing and then we get the reintroduction of um aaron deer where we've got these guys getting uh hit with arrows a lot of again like these visual rhymes it's like we see these guys start taking arrows and then uh in the later scene with the wild men we get kind of a similar situation oh you're about to be killed and then boom an axe yeah hits the guy in the chest it's like all right guys like i i'm sorry but there are a lot of repetitive things in this episode. Well and i i'm i i mean obviously it's intentional i just don't know to what end i guess i don't know right maybe to make it feel like the threat is kind of unknown i again like they're gonna they're gonna resolve what it is in the next episode so i don't know like what the I don't know.

It's such a strange choice. Yeah. I can't remember if it's this one or the next episode. I think it's this one where Aaron Deere makes a little comment to Ilse Dore like, well, at least your family's still alive. And Theo's sitting right there as they just torched the mom.

And it's just like, oh, oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, I probably should have said that. Nice tact there, buddy. The thing with Bronwyn is really irritating because, you know, they recast Adar. Just recast your character.

Yeah, why not? I don't understand unless they, unless I guess they just thought to themselves, well, Theo as a character, we don't need anything else and we can get Erendir out of this situation into something more interesting. But I found it interesting that an elf and a human woman were kind of cavorting with one another. Now it's just, it's so weird. Well, it kind of sets up a, it sets up a parallel of Aragorn and Liv Tyler.

Yeah, it's true. That's very true. Well, and I was wondering with Isildur and Astrid if that was kind of what that was leading to as well. Now we have a woman introduced opposite Isildur. Is that going to be, you know, the woman who bears him that son that then, you know, has, you know, heirs upon heirs upon heirs and then we get to Aragorn.

I don't, it would be surprising if that's not the case. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know. But, that's just my expectation from a show like this. It's, it's not wasting any space with characters.

Every character seemingly has like a purpose or a need or a use to the, to the narrative, including Farazan and, uh, Belzagar, the guy who's just like, Farazan. It's like, where did you come from? What are you doing? I think to your point, we kind of glossed over it a little bit. The reason the castle intrigue stuff doesn't work is the same reason that I don't find the stuff without Bronwyn as interesting as I used to because Bronwyn was a connection that we had to those characters and in the stuff in Numenor, there's no connection to these characters.

I have no... emotional attachment to these characters so I don't really care that now the queen is blind like I don't really care that Farazan is usurping power like I don't care because they haven't given me a reason to care with Nori and Gandalf, question mark, or to some of the other storylines, I mean, Doran or with Elrond and Galadriel, they've given me a reason to care. In Numenor, they're just like, well, see, it's like Game of Thrones. You'll like it because it's like Game of Thrones. No, I won't, though. That's not enough.

And the stuff in Numenor and now the stuff with Erendir, it's just like, I have no connection to these characters anymore. And I don't, I don't know if they'll be able to with Aaron deer. I hope they can get that back. But with Numenor, it's like, you're going to have to give me a really genuine. Yeah, absolutely.

And yeah, I just don't know who these characters are at all. Like, could you give me any sort of hint as to like, what's the motivation for the woman that found the Palantir? You know, what, what's the motivation of the guy who's like, just like going crazy. Like what is his, his deal? You know, I just don't know.

Well, and to your point, I genuinely don't understand why she stole the Palantir. I'm sure it'll be explained, but... Right. Which we know, I mean, Palantirs are inherently dangerous, because they say you don't know who's on the other side. This is not a closed conversation.

Anybody with a Palantir can get involved here. It's a party line. So you don't know who's listening. And so I don't even know why the Queen was using a Palantir. That's pretty risky.

And She was very much into the whole idea of like prophecy and stuff and like, oh, yeah, this elf is going to come and it's going to ruin everything or whatever. And it's like, OK, is it Galadriel? We don't know. But it could be. Who knows?

Speaking of that, don't you love how his schmoozing didn't work on Durin? That was nice. Yes. You are the smartest of all of war. And he's just like, he does not know Elrond.

Yeah, that was nice. What the fuck is he talking about? Yeah. But I like that. We talked about the idea of how does that character get to that point where he rejects the offer to save his people.

And I like that it's motivated by a character relationship that we've seen that actually feels like a genuine relationship. It's like, well, I know Elrond and Elrond doesn't talk. So either you misheard Elrond or you're lying. Right. XYZ reason and I like that I like that we don't get Durin going all the way he's just like well I don't trust this guy why I don't know he still brings the offer in front of his father so we trust him enough but I do like that we have a little bit of a callback to Doran and Elrond's relationship from, at this point, the first half of the first season.

We see them together for, what, an episode or two, if that? It's barely any. But I like that they re-reference it here to remind us, like, this is a bigger world. The elves and the dwarves are used to interacting kind of positively here, as opposed to kind of later in The Lord of the Rings, where it doesn't seem like they like to interact with each other positively at all. see uh the fuck lee pace's character locking him up in the hobbit. Well and so much of that is explained by deleted scene from the hobbit that you only see in the extended version of the hobbit the whole thing of how lee pace's character kind of screwed over the dwarves or vice versa it's just like uh all right yeah now i can see why these guys don't like each other but no we didn't get that in the theatrical version so good luck Bye.

Yeah. We can get a lot of things in that theatrical version, like a good movie. Oh yeah. Yeah. Um, it's nice to see, uh, Barak, uh, Isildur's horse, uh, very, uh, very reminds me of Borrego from, uh, Lord of the Rings, uh, Aragorn's horse who helped save him, which was nice.

Uh, Barak seems like a very good boy. So that's nice. Uh, Um, yeah, the, I found it interesting talking about Anatar, the way that he's the one that puts the Mithril into the, uh, the stew as it were, when it comes to, uh, pouring out the, the, the rings for the dwarves. And I like how they've, you know, they are talking or talked about rings for men, but now it's, oh yeah, we've got these dwarves here. Let's, uh, let's do this.

And I'm like, oh, okay. Interesting. Interesting that you're doing this. All right. So yeah.

And they're just like, yeah, you can heal your mountain. And so everybody's got something that they want, right? So here we go. Well, yeah, they can put the finger, you know, Anatar can put the finger on the scale, seemingly, anywhere that he knows it can be manipulated. And yeah, I mean, to be fair, the dwarves are kind of in the same position as the elves.

Dwarves are in the same position where our world is falling apart around us. And the elves, I mean, I don't know if you want to blame the elves for it, but the dwarves, it is their own fault. It is to, the dwarves are to blame. I feel some of it happens because of Mount Doom blowing up. Right, but they've also dug deep.

They have dug deep. They were too greedy. That's part of it, right? So they were already... susceptible, I guess, to manipulation. But I do like that Annatar is just like, oh, the dwarves are here.

Let's make you guys rings too. Want some rings? Like, should you really be trusting someone who's willing to give out rings that easily? Rings of power? No, I guess in my mind, you know, I go back to the idea of if you're a character in this world, do you just trust a guy who's shown up out of nowhere and is like, I have gifts.

I would have a hard time trusting. Well, at least he's not Greek. Because I've been told that you should not trust Greeks bearing gifts. That's a pretty nifty horse you got there. It's very funny to me that he is the one who, but again, the dwarfs gave him the mithril.

They gave it to him willingly. Oh, yeah. With no coercion whatsoever. Yeah, as soon as he dropped that piece of mithril into the alloy, I was just like, oh, yeah, and into it he poured all of his hate. And I was like, oh, okay, yeah, here's a, good way and i like that little hesitation and he's got his eyes closed before he drops it in there i'm like it was that little incantation he's doing before he does that so i we'll see i.

Looked at it as just you know and and in the you know in the future of the show we know that some of the power of the ring is like prophecy and foreshadowing and I wonder if that's also just like him seeing what the future holds for the rings but ignoring it anyways and just forging ahead because you know these rings the crafting of all of these rings of power ultimately leads to the one ring being crafted because the one ring controls all those and In crafting this ring, he is putting his own downfall into motion. It's like Voldemort making the horcruxes. For Voldemort to become Voldemort, he has to make the horcruxes. But for him to die, he also has to make the horcruxes. So it's that weird kind of chicken and the egg.

I don't know. I mean, I just love Charlie Vickers so much as Annatar. He's like, again, one of my favorite parts of this show. He's just such a bastard. Oh, yeah.

Just such a bastard. Yeah, he's doing a good job in this role. Yeah, I have to say. And again, I go back to what I said maybe in the first or second episode of our show, which is Sauron as a character has been undefined up until this point. Like, literally.

We have never seen him as a walking, talking, breathing character other than in this show. And the way Sauron is acting in this show, I feel like, for me, is one of the main through lines that connects it back to the franchise films because... Yes, we don't see Sauron in those films other than they being, you know, the obvious CBT carry iconic eye on top of the tower of Khazad-dûn. Yeah, I think it's Bar-dûr. Khazad-dûn is where the dwarves live in.

Um, so now we get to see Sauron running around up to no good. And it feels in a way like an externalization more so of what we saw in the movies, like just everywhere all the time up to no good, constantly never not taking an opportunity, never missing an opportunity to be evil. It's kind of the way I looked at Sauron in those movies, because, you know, when you look at the Hobbit, Sauron is making, you know, per those films and this TV show, which is canon to those films, uh, Sauron is making the actions of the Hobbit happen as well Sauron is somewhat part of why Smaug is doing what he's doing Sauron is the necromancer in the north like that's all there and so I just love that we finally get you know and again really I guess it would say the Hobbit is probably the closest we've gotten to Sauron as a external character because I think technically Benedict Cumberbatch voices Sauron in that movie.

The necromancer is Sauron. So him doing that like black tongue is is the first kind of character with a voice. But Charlie Vickers, I think for me so far, is the best part of this show. And I would have watched just a Sauron being evil show as well, which is kind of what we're getting here. But I like that it's making an entire lane for his character.

And we're seeing like wherever Sauron is, we're going to be following him and his machinations. He's not like blipping in and out of the storyline. I appreciate that because if the show had been done 20 years ago, they would have been like, nope, Sauron is not going to be the main character or one of the main characters. But because of something like a Soprano's like, well, who wouldn't want to see this guy just being a complete bastard? Right.

Well, he's not at the top of his game yet. You know, he needs all these rings to get out there and needs to make his own ring. He needs to wrest control of the orcs back from Attar. So he needs to probably kill Attar as well or turn him into something else. So yeah, and then eventually he needs to start aligning other wizards and stuff, other allies to him.

I mean, I'm curious how good of a job Sauron would have done in the Lord of the Rings without Saruman, you know, kind of going against everything that he stood for. But yeah, it's like now that we know that there's a dark wizard out here, Maybe he's going to make friends with him. Who knows? And is that dark wizard Saruman? That's a good question.

That is a very good question. Because we know there's, what, eight wizards that are in the world? There's the blue ones that we never see. Or have never even been given names. Right, yeah.

There's Saruman. There's Radagast. The brown. There's Gandalf, of course. And it feels like, is that it?

Just five? I thought there were a few others. Well, if there's eight, isn't it eight? I thought there were eight wizards. Well, if there's eight, then that's five accounted for.

So there's three still unaccounted for. This dark wizard could be six, so there might be two more. I am shocked. It looks like there's just five. Yeah, Gandalf the Grey, Sauron the White, Radagast the Brown, and then the two blue wizards, Alatar and Palando.

And in the role of Palando, Lou Diamond Phillips. Sure, why not? Edward James Olmos is Olmo or whatever said the other one was I'm surprised the show has restrained itself this long and not showing us because I can fucking wait baited breath for them to be like and here the blue like one of them just puts on like a blue hat or something like I'm waiting for it because. That's well who's to say it's the color they could just be very sad I'm the blue wizard yeah I really would like to help but I just I'm too depressed I will bother. Yeah Maybe the Dark Wizard is Saruman.

Yeah. Wouldn't be surprised. Why would he be the Dark Wizard and then the Light Wizard and then the Dark Wizard again? I don't know. That would be kind of the weird thing because Saruman at the beginning of the Lord of the Rings film series.

And in The Hobbit, in The Hobbit, he's a good guy. He goes away in The Hobbit and comes back at the beginning of Lord of the Rings as a secret bad guy that Gandalf doesn't know about. until halfway through. Was he evil at this point? I don't know. It's like how many thousands of years before?

Everybody just had fucking amnesia for five minutes. Oh my god. We just all forgot. Time, the world is changing. Memories fade out of existence.

Maybe they're leaning into that. I don't know. Did IQ suddenly drop while I was away? Yeah, right. It's clearly Sauron.

I'm Annatar. Sauron! Well, it's like when they're debating what's going on in the Hobbit movies and you're watching Sormon and you're just like, he's going to turn bad. He better watch out. Well, I'll go have a conversation with this guy.

Necromancer, you asshole. It's my favorite fucking scene in those Hobbit movies. It's like, I will go deal with the Necromancer. Fucking curb your enthusiasm music. Or more athletes are like, I'll go deal with the Necromancer.

And then it's just Saruman becomes evil with the Always Sunny music. Like that. That's why this Hobbit move is tame. Now we know that Annatar has the gift of gab. It's like, okay, I can see him sitting down with the Necromancer.

And he's just like, hey, you know what? You are a really powerful wizard. I don't think you get the respect that you deserve. Nobody likes me. Nobody thinks I'm good enough.

Well, you know, I am the devil. Yeah. Why don't we become pen pals? Here's this Palantir. Just take this back to your castle and we can talk, you know?

Right. Yeah. Pass messages back and forth. It'll be like when we were kids and we had little walkie talkies and stuff. I wonder if.

That's how the show ends with the Palantir being given to the Dark Wizard and that's how the show ends. Well, that Palantir, I don't know whose Palantir that is, but if that Palantir ends up with the Dark Wizard, you're going to have a hard time convincing me he's not Saruman. Well, you know, we only have three and a half seasons to go. So something might happen. Who knows?

Fourth season got announced already? No. It was announced like a day ago. They were like, fourth season's coming. Third season's not out yet.

Wow. I would like to reiterate, they announced that they were going to do five seasons of this show. I said that when we recorded that first season in 2022. They're going to do five seasons. It's 10 years worth of work.

There's no surprise that they're doing a fourth season and they're going to announce that they're doing a fifth season, too. And they're probably going to say, this is it. And then everyone's going to go, really? And I will redirect you to the articles written in 2021 when they were announcing this goddamn show. I applaud showrunners who have a plan in mind.

Oh, absolutely. You know, five years, whatever, five seasons, whatever. It's going to take 10 years because you know what show didn't have that? Stranger Things. You know what show really sucked when it ended?

Stranger Things. You know what show also really sucked when it ended? Dexter. You know what else show sucked? Game of Thrones.

Westworld. Like all these shows that just don't have any plan. Fucking write your story. Have your fucking story and tell it. And there are filmmakers like, well, or TV runners that are like, I knew where this show was going to end the moment I started writing it.

Good. I believe you. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's Eric Kripke and Supernatural, which... Ended great after five seasons.

And then the fucking fans came back and like, no, we need more Sam and Bean and not really a good plan of what their adventures will be. So for another, what, 10 seasons, 11, however. Oh, Jesus. During the pandemic in such a way that it was obvious that it ended during the pandemic where it was just the two of them and nobody else. In a room with masks in a room.

Yeah. It's like my dinner with Andre, but it's yeah. My dinner with Sam and Dean. Well, I'm very curious to see where we go with the next episode, Eldest. And yeah, until we come back and discuss that.

Chris, what are you working on these days? Well, I'm working on podcasts just like you are. And you can find everything that you and I work on over at weirdingwaymedia.com where... This show, my show, The Culture Cast, your show, The Projection Booth, and so many other great shows can be found. So head on over to weirdingwaymedia.com.

If you want to hear something that's not free, per se, an entire back catalog of Rankin on Bond, where Richard Haddam, Mike, and I talk about James Bond together, is available on Mike and my Patreon at patreon.com slash culturecast or patreon.com slash projectionbooth. If you want to listen to that or hear a new show that we're doing called Never Tell Me The odds which is a harrison ford podcast you can hear us doing that on a normal rss feed on weirding way media but the ad free version is available patreon perfect should we just wrap it up that way yeah i think so i mean no need for you to do the outros if you're fucking you and i are saying the same shit so