WUH: There's sometimes a buggy

Wake Up Heavy is a weirdy way media podcast. It's sometimes a buggy. Welcome to Wake Up Heavy, the world's greatest horror movie podcast. On this episode, my weird dad and I will be talking about shut. Up Hello and welcome to Wake Up Heavy.

This is Mark Begley, your host, Joining me, why I say once again, Joining me as always is my daughter Cleo. Yep, and we're going on a little David Lynch side quest here for you. We are prepared for the next Twin Peaks episode because we have watched episodes seven through twelve of the return. We're good on that. But before we got into that, or before we finished that, we had a free night.

Your mom was out on a girl date. I think, yeah, so deciding on what to watch a little bit easier if you just stick with the same topic. You still haven't seen a lot of David Lynch's films. I've got a few on Blu ray and or DVD, and there's a couple available on different platforms. And it was between I think Blue Velvet and Mulholland Drive.

My tendency is always to go in order, but you know whatever, that's just me. I was confused about what you want to watch. So I put in Blue Velt and you're like, I picked the Mullholland Drive. We watched Mulholland Drive. This is one.

I mean I've watched it. I can't say. I mean, I know I haven't watched it nearly as much as most other David Lyn's things. Definitely more than Inland Empire, which I think I've only watched one and a half times. What half well, because I caught it on HBO years ago and I think it was the second half of the movie, or maybe even just the last hour of it, and then I bought it on a real crappy DVD and watched that.

That is one I need to watch again. I've only seen the Straight Story maybe the same, like one and a half times. Yeah. The rest of his movies, particularly Blue Velvet and Eraserhead, I've just watched a ton. Yeah, Mulholland Drive is sort of in the middle there.

I know I've watched it more than Lost Highway because I like it more than Lost Highway. And I've definitely watched it more than Firewalk with Me because I definitely like it more than Firewalk with Yeah. On this watch, I realize and I told you a little while after that, I'm like, this might be my second favorite. Now, yeah, I might actually like this more than Blue Velvet, which. Which is crazy because I know you liked that one.

Yeah, it surprised me while we were watching it, but I was like, oh man, this is so good. Well, we'll get into it. It's different, it's got a different feel, but it is one of those movies like Blue Velvet that I connect eraser Head, Blue Velvet, and mohand Drive have these connections for me. Some of them are very superficial. There's a feeling about them that I get when I watch them that strikes me as very similar.

So anyway, enough about me, What did you think having seen you mentioned on one of our episodes that you've only seen eraser Head. Yeah, well and Firewalk with Me now. Oh, I think it was on when we talked about that. But you have seen Doune. Oh oh yeah, well, I like forget that.

That's a stillin. It's a David Lynch film, and a good one in my opinion. The strangest Oh that movie is so weird. I mean, it's dude, but. You still are way way behind.

So this is really the David n no fourth now, sorry, now I'm miscounting. Yeah, four Racer h Dune, fire Walk with Me, and Mulholland Drive other four films. So out of the four films that you've seen of his, what did you think of Mouholland Drive. I really liked it compared to the others. I think I like it more.

I mean, I like you raise your head. I don't know, I just liked it more and it I don't know how to like describe the difference. In my brain, I really liked Firewalk with Me, but I think I do like muhlan Drive a little bit more, especially because it's it's a standalone In my brain, Firewalk with Me is just like another episode almost of Twin Peaks. So that's why I also think I like my and Drive a little more because it's just its own standalone movie and it's maybe a little more like has a plot compared. To eraser I mean Eraserhead has it has a similar sim It's for me, what struck me was how mature this film was.

With the Eraserhead obviously first film he was still in his twenties, taking five years to make and not yeah, very little money et cetera, et cetera. I mean it's still my favorite of his. Yeah, and I still really like it because it's such a fun watch. Compared to Blue Velvet, my other favorite, I think it has a maturity well above that. Even That's what really struck me, is like the emotional maturity of the story, not necessarily of the characters, but how they're dealt with and how they deal with each other.

Yeah, they're like depth and stuff. Seems much more emotional and full to me than a lot of as other films, including Lost Highway, even including Firewalk with Me and the whole of Twin Peaks, except maybe for the Return. There's a lot more going on underneath and between people than I think in previous films, and that really struck me, and I probably am only noticing it now because of my own age and maturity, I guess. And kind of beyond the not shock value, but the more surreal aspects of Eraser Head or Blue Velvet that I really love. I mean, those are kind of superficial things to enjoy.

Visuals and ideas. The light bulbs that burn out as an example, I always love it when I see that in his movies, and we see that's a through line from eraser Head to hear that happens in this movie. That tickles me whenever I see it in any of his work. But that's really kind of just a superficial pleasure. Not I'm connecting with this story with these characters.

Yeah, Muhal and DREI feels very like rounded out. Again, maybe a lot of the characters are like fully well mostly mature because the plot and what they do. Yeah, the story itself is very like, this is what's happening with these people, this is why, this is how they feel. It's I like it. It was cool, it's rounded out.

And this may be loading this up early. But the other thing, I feel kind of dumb for even saying this. But the other thing that I really got out of it this time. Obviously the movie is about Hollywood, and it's not a necessarily positive essay on Hollywood. Yeah, it really struck me this time, the way that Hollywood treats female actors.

Yeah, a lot of people are probably going, well, dumb or I mean, I got that part of it before, but it seemed much more. And this may be because you know, me too has happened since then. The Harvey Weinstein. Stuff has happened since then. Yeah, basically like thing has happens instead.

Those are both connected. Yeah, and just continuing finding out weekly about some guy in Hollywood being creep Producers, studio execs, all that, directors. It's like every monthly, every other week. It's constant. But I didn't really catch on to that aspect of this is the girl part of the story.

This is the girl, This is the girl. This is the girl. This is the girl. You've got Anne Miller in there as the landlady. I guess of the apartment complex where Betty's aunt lives.

What happened to her after a certain age? Yeah, most like I wasn't getting any work, right, Yeah, the other creepy lady that comes by the apartment and says someone's in danger. Lee Grant and other old witch actress who probably stopped working after she aged out. You know, this idea of aging out is a part of this story. It's not just us the male creeps in Hollywood.

It's the you've reached a certain age, we're done with you. There's also the competitive putting women against each other. In the initial part of the movie. It's her technically, but like in the initial part where she's like, oh, this is the unknown blonde we want to cast. That's kind of competition for Naomi Watts's care I don't remember which name she goes by at that point.

She's yeah, Betty at the beginning, and. Then by the end it's her and Rita going basically up against each other for that role because it gets like swiped out from under her. So there's that competitive nature too, which is kind of perpetuated by all the men. But yeah, let's get that stuff out of the way the characters and we'll talk about what our interpretations quote unquote later. Yeah, Naomi Watts plays Betty Elms apparently slashed Diane Selwyn yes, and Laura Herring plays re to slash Camilla Rhodes.

Yes. And there's another Camilla Rhodes in there, played by Melissa George, who is auditioning for the film that justin Throw is making. Yeah, the main quote unquote, let's say that not the main, but the starting point is with Betty and Rita Rita, yes, and then later on when it's those two against each other, it's Diane and Camilla. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, the competitiveness and just the idea of well, Rita walks across Sunset Boulevard at the beginning of the film, which you haven't seen that movie, you may know something about it. It's about an aging actress, an aged actress who was tossed aside at a certain point, and the whole movie is about her trying to make a comeback and this really messed her up. And she's a recluse and she has a pet chimpanzee. And Okay, you should really watch it sometime. It's a great, great movie, and it's a tragic movie.

And I don't think that that is a subtle nod to it at all. I think that's a very very nod to it. Clear. Yeah, that's to me what Mulholland Drive is all about, is this is what happens to Yeah, female actors in Hollywood. You're disposable, I think definitely.

Yeah. Yeah, So that became obvious to me on this watch, very obvious. And again people are probably going, well, new shit, Mark, I'm glad you finally caught it. But I think part of that is always being so flummixed by the movie and trying to figure everything out. Yeah, the way it's told is not specifically focusing on that in a way, because you know, they're making out with each other and like there's tiny old people, there's other stuff.

Well, and it's supposed to be a mystery. Yeah, they're trying to find out who Rita is. Yeah, and or who this Diane Selwyn is pops up later in the movie when she has some real call. Yes, it's framed as a mystery. There's way more subtext to it than just that.

For sure, I had a dream about this place. Oh boy, you see. What I mean. You've only seen it once, yeah, I know, the first time I saw it, having seen Lost Highway at least a couple of times prior, which again is not one of my favorites. He explores this idea of a person becoming somebody else in that movie, you know, I mean, Balthazar Getty literally turns into another person in that film.

Actually, the Bill Pullman character turns into the Balfzer Getty character. Who is already a character in the movie. But whatever happens. So this has some of that too, you know. Even in Twin Peaks the Return and technically I guess the original Twin Peaks, Yeah, dealing with Tulpas and doppelgangers and things like that.

I don't even know at that time. In two thousand and one, your mom and I probably saw it maybe a year after it played in theaters. We rented it, and at that point I had been disappointed with his previous couple of films, so I didn't rush out to go see it in the theater. And I believe by the time we were like, let's go see it, it was already gone. I don't think it played in Fresno for very long.

We did rent it pretty quickly though, after it came out on video and I was like, Oh, I really like this, but I have absolutely no idea what's going on. Yeah, And I was okay with that because I had that feeling already with Lost Highway to an extent that might be a little bit more clear about what's going on. And as we were discussing prior to recording, it's a nonlinear story, but it doesn't have that cutesy hard line misset like pulp fiction or even like weapons. Yeah, weapons or Pillhouse is always the main one that I think of. You get a very clear division this is past, this is future right type thing like that Mall and Drive doesn't really have it at all.

You kind of have to discern for yourself when things happen in the timeline, which is why I think you were asking me like, what do you think happened? Well? And those ten clues quote unquote with the old DVD, those clues I think are mainly four this is a jump in time or this is Yeah. I kind of caught onto that with like because one of the clues is notice the color of the lamp shade or something like that, and then you like clearly see that she has the same lamp next to the phone. Those clues kind of help, but they're also I remember I was reading them and I was just like, okay.

I think as we went through them, did we look at them after the movie? I was looking at them like a couple minutes into the movie. I think we paused at one point and that's when I went over them, and I was just like okay. For a long time thought it was kind of a goof on David Lynch's part. I'm like, these gonna help at all, but they do?

They actually do. Yeah, we're not going to go over the list or anything, but no, it was just another one of those confusing aspects to me, because I don't think I caught on to the non linear aspect of it. Yeah, even though this is post pulp fiction, I mean famous non linear story. Yeah. The changing identities or changing characters or even just changing names however you want to look at it, I think is the part that really threw me off, Like I don't know who is Naomi, what's supposed to be right now?

Who is Laura Herring is supposed to be right now? Oh? Yeah, because especially the Camilla stuff gets weird because she is brunette and all of that. But in the initial plot, let's call it, she blonde and like just a random girl who we see on a picture and then we see her singing, this is the girl. She's another character character.

Yeah, so completely different person. Yeah, that's definitely another thing that threw me off as well. What I thought we had a Camilla Rhodes already. Yeah, Well, I'm confused. It gets a little strange.

And then when Rita starts talking about Diane, You're like, okay, another blonde lady, and then it switches and you're like, I'm confused. I mean, we might as well get into that aspect of it. There are a lot of theories out there, of course, and I read a couple a few days ago, and one of them drove me nuts because this guy, and I think it was like for Variety, it was a big name publication, kept calling Betty dumb. He's not dumb the character he described as being dumb. And I'm like, she's not dumb.

Now, she's wholesome. I mean, she's naive at best. I don't think she's stupid. I mean I was getting on her for being like, why are you letting this lady stay in the apartment? But as you pointed out, she thinks it's her aunt's friend, right, So I let it slide.

But I don't think she's stupid by any means. I think she's just kind of naive. And that's the point. Yeah, And that's an example he used for her being dumb. How would she know that this isn't a friend of her?

Yeah, staying there. It's not like Rita's responding or anything. She throws out questions that she constantly answers about who Rita is or why she's there, and never gives not that Rita at that point is going to be able to answer any of the questions. That's just kind of funny how that each question is solved by herself. Yeah, she's like, are you my aunt's friend?

You must be like there, what that's why you're taking a shower? Yeah, and just oh, let me walk into the bathroom. Oh, I'm so sorry you're showering. Let me stay in here for five mo minutes and talk to you a little more while you're naked. I love Betty.

She's yeah, wholesome. I think wholesome's a good little turn. She's from Deep River, Ontario. Yeah, it's a young Canadian here in Hollywood for the first time. Yeah, down in LA.

I don't see her as dumb or stupid. I just see her as open and wholesome and not questioning. But she's curious. Yeah yeah, I mean she also once she kind of befriends Rita. She's like, well, I'll help you.

Like, she's very chill and just a little curious about everything La Hollywood. And also this random lady that was in her apartment. Well, and mysteries are intriguing. Yeah, that's the same idea from Blue Velvet. That's to me a direct line there is central to that story is a mystery that Kyle Maclaughlan's character is trying to solve Betty is doing the same thing here with the person that it involves.

Whether that mystery gets solved or not isn't really all that important. No, I think that's where people and even myself kind of got hung up, like did we figure out the mystery to this kind of Yeah? Yeah, it kind of because they're trying to matter, you're out who Rita is and what happened to her. I'd say they get pretty close. Well, and then the Diane Selwyn's stuff, though, becomes sort of the mystery.

Yeah, like who is she? Am I Diane Sellen? Or yeah? Is she? If it's is she, does she know me?

Will she help me solve this mystery in my own amnesia? You know? Then that splits our movie. But I still think even the Diane stuff gets kind of answered in a way. You figure out who it is.

That's where we have the theories. Yeah. Another one of the theories that I read was like trying to dispute the main theory, which I'll just go ahead and throughout here. The main theory is that the initial story, the opening story, is Diane Selwyn's dream. Yeah, so you can split it out by that.

There are clues, some of the clues on that ten things list that help, and just some of the visual clues in the film, like the lampshade, like the blue key, like her phone, et cetera, et cetera, that tell you what timeline we're in. Yeah, So the person was trying to dispute the fact that this was Diane's dream. They used the same instances of those clues and the other visual clues, and I'm like, you're not disputing it, You're reinforcing it. What are you talking about. She's saying it's her dream, but in a different way.

But it's so Yeah, that's one of the main interpretations that at the beginning of the film, I believe after we see the dancing the weird the couple three or four couples in their doppel gangers kind of going around, you know, there's like three couples and that dance sequence that they all they. Kind of like overlap and yeah, switch back and forth. So the dance contest that Betty supposedly won is what opens the story. And then after that we see a POV shot of somebody going to sleep, somebody's head hitting a pillow, Oh yeah, and going to sleep from my eye it's the same pillow that Diane is on later. Yeah.

The main theory is that this beginning of the movie with Betty and Rita is Diane's dream dream, a romanticized dream about coming to Hollywood and becoming a starlet, because in that version, Betty has this uh what do you call it where you go try to get apart. Like co to an audition. Audition. She has this like Gangbusters audition that just puts everybody in the room like mouths agape. Right.

Yeah, And it's a great scene because when she and Rita are rehearsing earlier that she's doing well, but they're kind of goofing around and stuff. I think I made a comment during that scene that I was like, oh, I would do this with my friends in my drama class, Like that's like what you do kind of just read the Linds out. But when she gives her actual audition, it's yeah, it's good, it's hardcore. Yeah, she does it, and everybody in the room is away, but it probably doesn't matter. Well, we know it doesn't matter because of this whole thing going on in the background of the film.

One of the backstory or one of the b stories side stories, not really t story since it is integral to the plot. I'd call it a side story. Yeah, that it doesn't really matter that she did really well on this. She's not going to get the part. That's for a different movie though, So I'm getting confused here.

That's Sylvia North's story. It's not okay because I was going to say that's Stila Stu with Camilla. So that's like a still connection. Yeah, she still probably won't because of the schmoozyness and grossness of the industry, and she doesn't have any work behind her. Yep.

Then she goes and watches the Sylvia North rehearsals and catches justin throws I and blah blah blah. They have their stare off. Yeah, and then we break in at a certain point to Diane Selwyn's actual life life. Yeah, there are the same actresses playing different roles, so it becomes confusing. Yeah.

I kind of like that theory. I mean, it doesn't bother me that it's simple. Yeah, I can subscribe to that theory. I think it's fine. The dream, waking up from the dream.

The whole thing was a dream. Of such like a classic like trope. But it works when you cut back to Diane like all of these things in her life. I have plenty of dreams where like, I'm not myself. I have plenty of dreams where I'm a different person, but it's still me.

I don't know, so like, I can see that being a good theory. And I have people from real life who come into my dreams and are like that, like Camilla, so I can Yeah, it's simple, but it works. I only ever have dreams where I am a different age. I can't say that I've never like felt or been another person. That's interesting.

Oh yeah, I'm a person a lot of the time. Like I'll be people from like TV shows I watch, but i'm them, but I'm still me. Interesting, it's kind of ever had that happen? Yeah? Sure, it's just as fun as flying around.

Yeah, you're your classic Lucid dream of you flying around the house. Yep. I think some people are bothered by that because it's quote unquote too simple. Yeah, what if you make the connection which a lot of people do, to Wizard of Oz. Yeah, and it's just that.

He's a known fan of Wizard of Oz and there are I mean, Wild at Heart has all kinds of Wizard of Oz stuff in it, like literal Glinda the Goodwitch is wild at Heart. So right right? Okay, wait, that's awesome. What Yeah, I don't dispute that idea either, that there are a Wizard of Oz ish things going on, Like I'm not going to sit there and try to match up who is who? You know, who is justin Throw's character?

Who is Rita? Who is the guy in the wheelchair with the really long legs? Oh my gosh, I forgot about. That, or the Castiglioni brothers or you know whatever, that's fine. The cowboy, who's the cowboy?

Cowboy is sometimes a bug? None of that interests me, really, that's so funny. It wouldn't surprise me that Wizard of Oz leaks into many of his films. Well, and also to get kind of annoying with it. Wizard of Oz is like notorious for all of the weird stuff that happened to female cast members on that movie, like Judy Garland.

I can't remember the Witch's name, but her getting burned in her makeup, all of them having eating disorders. Yeah, so there's your connection to the actual theme. Of the movie. Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean the eating disorder thing and Judy Garland being the prime example of that.

Yeah, people much older than her when she was a teenager, you know, pumping her full of anthetamines to keep her fan and all that kind of crap that goes on scary stuff. So ye wouldn't surprise me at all. But that's obviously not the only theory you can have with the David Lynch film, any of his films except maybe Blue Velvet. You know, that's pretty straightforward. I don't think it's so open for interpret I mean there are loose ends in that.

Yeah, you can interpret differently. But for this or Lost Highway or Inland Empire, there's gonna be An and eraser Head, and he always says none of them are wrong. They might not be mine, but you can have whatever interpretation you want in my film. Well again, that clip of him being asked to explain something and he just goes, no. Can you elaborate on that?

Oh good, you just gave me a chance to put my favorite quote in again. Yeah, Eraserhead is my most spiritual film. Oh, elaborate on that? No, Nope, it's such a good clip. I believe it or not, Eraserhead is my most spiritual film.

Elaborate on that, no, So I asked you what your interpretation was, and I like this. I was surprised to hear. It well because I also totally like had to say it. The girl in Triangle is in and that might have affected my viewing, my point of view because Triangle is a time loop purgatory movie specifically, like she's Sissyphus basically, but I saw that kind of as a similar route. It wraps all the way around, like she wants to if we go to the Diane plot at the end of the movie, she's actively like going a little crazy and she wants to put a hit out on Camilla, right, and then that happens at the beginning of the movie.

So to me it was a time loop of some sort. And then the purgatory aspect is just because she kills herself eventually and that body is in the first half of the movie mm hmm, and it's like seeping through what actually like happened or is going to happen or already has happened. It's just a loop in my brain. That's what I interpreted it as. And then I guess the purgatory is the explanation for the loop, but I just think, like simplistically, it's just a time loop where I guess you could say the beginning is when it first cuts back to Diane and she's tweaking out about the movie and like her part getting taken from her lesbian lover, and then it wraps all the way back around.

It makes sense to me because the one thing that still throws me off is the fact that Diane and sorry for the spoilers, folks if you haven't seen this movie, the fact that Diane kills herself. Betty and Rita find that. Body body, Yeah, they find her. What So either a loop or the purgatory idea makes sense, like or your blast dying not so much a dream. But that's also the other like more minor one I had was that was the last things that she thought of.

Yeah, her life flashing for your eyes. Yeah, but in a glorified way, not in the real Yeah. Like a romanticized deathly way. I get the girl and I'm going to help her with this and. Then I disappear when I open the box.

Yeah, I mean, and that part of it too, where well that's they switch. That's when. Yeah, that's when they switch. But she does just like vanish for a couple of seconds and then it switches. So I think that's a.

They both vanish. Yeah, they do, that's true. After the box is opened. Sorry, we're jumping around, folks. I mean you kind of have to.

I feel what you're talking about. This movie The Switch takes place when Rita sneaks into Auntreuth's apartment. She has with her in her bag a mysterious blue box. Noious, it's a key. Yeah, she is the key and a load of cash.

She has so much money on her just in that little purse. One of the mysteries that they're trying to figure out is what is this key for? Yeah, what's the money from? Why do you have either of these things? Who are you all that stuff?

Later on in Club Salencio, the box appears in her purse. So once that box is opened, Rita immediately disappears or does Betty open it? Let me check. One of them disappears, and then the other one disappears and the room is empty and an Ruth comes back into the room because she has heard a noise and yeah. Also suggests the time loop that aunt Ruth has not gone on her trip yet, trip yet.

Yeah, Rita unlocks it, but Betty disappears first. Right right, She says, Betty like real nervously, like work. Yeah, you kind of Betty like walks away or something, and then yeah, she's just gone, and then it Ruth comes in. Yeah. Well I think she literally disappears in the framework of the film.

I don't think she like steps out of the room. No, I don't think that's what I yeah, like I think she just says like that's when it starts again, resets. Yeah, the box is like the reset button. Once they unlock it, it's done because there's like nowhere else to really go after that point, if you think about it, because like they found Diane's body, they kind of have already not necessarily figured out who Rita is, but like they've gotten clues and stuff. So then yeah, once they open the box, it's just like, okay, tend to go all the way back.

And whether or not Betty and or Diane actually has an aunt Ruth that lives there in that apartment. I mean, you know, is any of that stuff in that apartment real? Because we know that the landlady Coco and Miller is not the land lady in the Diane Selwyn story. She's she's justin Throw's mom. Yeah, and I can't remember his name for the life of me.

In the film Adam kesher. Some people switch rolls, which I think is common in dreams. I mean that is, I've never switched roles as far as I can remember, but I know that I'm talking to someone who is supposed to be somebody else, and I'm like, when I wake up, I'm like, well, that wasn't that. That wasn't them. That happens to me all the time.

And then yeah, I switch rolls all the time. That must be fun because I never knew that I'm always born old me. That's strange. The time loop thing or mobius strip as it's described, makes sense to me. And or purgatory, I mean combine time, Yeah, purgatory.

What else would purgatory be? But like we're living. Yeah, that's why I said Sissyphis earlier talking about Tryle Like that's literally like what it is. She's doing the same thing over and over again. With the same outcome.

Yeah, or at least Betty Diane is doing the same thing over and over again and still disappearing into the box. Well, we get those clues, like at Winkies with the waitress. I was going to talk about, because he goes on his whole rant about there's a guy and then the like looking worried and stuff, and then that kind of happens later with different characters. You're getting ahead of me. I was just referencing when Betty and Rita are there and they see the waitress name tag Diane.

You're talking about earlier with Patrick Fischler, my favorite man in this movie. You're in both dreams and you're scared. I get even more frightened when I see how afraid you are, and then. I realize what it is. There's a man.

In back of this place. He's the one who's doing it. I can see him through the wall. I can see his face. I hope that I never see that face ever outside of a dream.

So let's talk about that scene, the famous Winkies scene. Yes, I believe that's the first time I had seen Patrick Bischler in anything. He hadn't done a whole lot before then, so that is most likely true. And I just remember thinking, when your mom and I were first watching this, who the hell is this guy. Well, he plays that scene so well.

It's so serious and like, while. He is inherently creepy to me in. That Yeah, no, I agree, he's very strange. He doesn't have a really weird look or anything, but there was just something about his veins are bulging on his head. I think it's because he's so stressed out about what he's talking about.

And you're just im media like uncomfortable too, because you're like, why are you so freaked out? And his eyes are buggy, and. I feel like his eyes are also kind of watering too. You're right, he's just like not in the greatest shape in that scene. But his delivery, and this is something that continues throughout his career.

His line delivery just absolutely kills me. I love Patrick Fischler. He's in the return. Yeah, and you're like, well, I love you. Anytime I see him show up in something.

He's just one of those guys that I'm always happy to see show up. Yeah. He's roughly the same age as me and that has something to do with it. And I don't know, I just love him. I just wanted to point out to people there is a much more in depth on point discussion of mohon Drive by my friend's over at the Projection Booth, which you should go listen to because Mike White interviews Patrick Fischler.

It's a fantastic interview. And he also got to talk to Laura Herring and that is an amazing interview as well. That Gal has gone through some stuff as a kid that is just mind blowing. But anyway, go listen to that if you want like real in depth stuff like information. Yeah, because we're just information.

We're just riffing here, yeah, literally having fun talking about a crazy movie. The Winkie scene. I love, it's just so iconic. I remember I turned to you when we were watching it. I was like, I've heard this scene before.

It's all over TikTok. And that does not surprise me at all. That scene where he says there's a man. There's a pause and he goes, there's a man all over TikTok, I've heard it before. I hadn't seen that whole scene, but I had seen him sitting at that bench before talking, and I was just like, oh, yeah, I know this obviously not what it entailed, fully, because like, what the.

Hell, well, that's thing. It's like what does this have to do with anything. It's one of those things, and we're seeing a lot of that in twin Peaks, the return those out of context non sequitur scenes. Yeah, it does have something to do with the movie in a couple different ways. I mean, he is not the only character, but this is the main I had a dream, ye, yeah, I had.

A dream about this place. He is retelling a dream that he has had. Take that for what it's worth as far as your interpretation of the film as a whole. And that does connect to the later scene in the same Winkies, And I don't know, I'm getting ahead of myself. I always think that that since they are in Winkies later on, I always think that that Patrick Fischler scene has broken up throughout the film where he talks about his dream and then we take a break and you know, we go maybe back to Betty and Rita or the Hollywood the Adam Kesher part of the story.

Yeah, but no, he tells. His friend or therapist or lawyer or whoever is I don't know about his dream. For some reason, I thought he was like a law enforcement person when we watched it. I don't know why. I always assumed he was a therapist and they were having a session out of the office because it had to do with this real place.

Yeah, and because he basically makes him go out and confront this fear he has. Yeah, the guy that he's with makes Patrick Fisher go out. And more stuff on kind of dreams and even in away time loops, it all literally happened, Like he says what happens in his dream, and then it exactly happens. He sees the people really worried at the table and stuff, which can be something on deja vu, and how blowkey the whole movie is kind of deja vu in a sense. Then when Betty finds Diane's body, you can just kind of be like, it's happening again.

He is relaying his dream and he's like, you're standing at the register and you look really concerned, and then he looks over and the guy looks really concerned. Yeah. They immediately walk out and this person who he is terrified of. Honestly, the first time, I'm like, there's not going to be anything back there. I was really surprised that a figure emerged from behind the dumpster.

Yeah. I like how that scene was done too. Because it's not like a modern jumps here or whatever. They literally just walk into frame and then like right off, well he like faints, but like they just go stop and then walk away. It's such a good Yeah.

And that sound effect, kind of the wishing sound effect. Yeah, when he quote unquote he comes into frame, even though by a woman Urns who. I recognize, Like immediately I was like, oh, that looks like the nun and it is. She's been in a lot of horror movies. She has a very very specific face.

Yeah, she's got distinct features. Distinct is what I meant on specific. We thoseific faces. We see him later on. Is it during though now I'm confused.

Is it during the Betty Rita seen in the Winkies or is it with Diane and the hit Man in the winks that we see Winky's man. Oh, I think it's I think it's with Diane and the hit Man. Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. I that's what I was going to say. I think we're right.

We're gonna have to fact check that. It doesn't matter really because the sort of the point is, oh, oh there's that guy again. Okay, So this is which timeline. Yeah, like when does this take place? What's happening?

Yeah, Winky's is important because of these three separate events that happened there, the dream thing, Betty and Rita going through them. They're starting to solve the mystery at the Winkies, and that's when they see the waitress with the name tag Diane. You know, is very pointed that it's Diane. It's the name of her other character in this. Yeah.

I believe at some point it's mentioned that she's was a waitress or had waitress jobs. So I'm like, is she probably in her dream? Is this supposed to be her? That's I think when they get the phone book, you know, they call the number and get the answer machine because it jars Rita's memory, that name Diane sparks memory. And yeah, she recognizes it.

Yeah. And then later on at the Winkies is where Diane is hiring the hit man to kill Rita slash Camilla. Yeah, I think it took me forever to realize that's what's happening at the beginning of the movie. Yeah, they hit. Yeah, that's what reinforces my time loop thing.

She puts a hit out on her and then it's swallowed through and then she can't remember anything, and then all that happens with Betty the hit fails. Yeah, she doesn't. Because the car wreck. Yeah, and the opening sequence Rita is to drive up Mulholland drive in a limousine with two chauffeurs. They stop in the middle of the road and they're going to kill her, and then they get hit by the teens like maniacs, and the chauffeurs are killed.

She crawls out and has lost her memory. But that's what the hit man is talking about with that other guy in that office building, because they're talking about the wreck, yeah and laughing like, oh, can you believe it? That's so crazy? Car Wreck again? For me, who knows how many times I watched it before I even made that connection that that's what we were talking about.

Car wreck. What oh from the beginning of the movie, movie go, well, we didn't have to kill this lady because this happened and took her out instead. Great, which I was gonna say, awful, like hit men, because you should check because she was a. Dead I think you would just assume that. Yeah, everybody in that wreck.

Probably the only reason she didn't is because the limousines are long cars and she's in the middle, and I believe they get hit at the front at the front. So definitely that's the two guys driving tide Rip. But then there's the black book that the one guy has, the long haired guy has that he basically gets killed for, and that's sort of one of the things that I have no idea. I'm assuming it has more to do with the Hollywood stuff that's going on. I don't know.

Yeah, I was gonna say, maybe it has to do with like Adam or something. I don't even know if I even thought about the book, like watching the movie, I was probably just like, it's a book. Yeah, I don't know that if those two worlds are connected, or if it's just yeah, I need that because my name is in it and I don't want it. Yeah, part of this getting out and yeah, I love that scene and he accidentally shoots that woman through the wall and then he's got her and then he's got to kill the guy that's Vegemmy. He's like wailing about it, and it's like I think something bit me or whatever she says, and it's just and it's like you have a bullet in your butt cheek, Like what are you talking from?

It's so chaotic. For a split second there, I thought that was the gal that is in Twin Peaks The Return, the yeah, where the librarian's body is discovered, and I was so hoping that would be true, but it wasn't. Unfortunately, Are there any other Patrick Fischler's in the Return? Obviously? Naomi Watts is.

Yeah, Forrester, the Cops, the being, Yeah, who appear for two seconds. Literally two seconds. Yeah. Yeah, they were in the pilot, I believe more, and probably would have been on the show if it had been picked up. Yeah, as those characters.

Yeah, I always found that like, oh yeah, we never saw Robert Forrester again, what the hell happened to him? Exactly? If you don't know, this was supposed to be a pilot or I was shot as a pilot for ABC in like nineteen ninety nine. They declined and so he reworked it. And I believe a lot of that is the I mean they reshot some stuff and added some stuff, but a lot of it is what was shot, yeah, for the pilot.

That's why I was trying to find it the other day. I wanted to see how much of it was the same. Yeah, I believe that that they just like used what they had. Why not? Well, and that's the thing with David Lynch.

It's like change a few things, add something, and you know it prob. I don't know that it would have had the loop or. Yeah, I was going to say, swap or yeah. Same stuff. That's probably what was added for the film version to make it make sense.

That makes sense quote unquote. Yeah, whatever your your definition of makes sense is. Again, was why I wanted to I could have sworn I had seen it on YouTube at some point, but it's not on there right now. I would have been curious to see what the differences were if any of that loop or purgatory or dream content is in there. I feel like it probably wasn't.

Yeah. I also can't imagine, like, well, you never know with like David Lynch, but I can't imagine stretching that type of story out for like multiple episodes because it's, like we said earlier, it's not like a concrete, nonlinear thing. So I feel like it would be kind of maybe more difficult. I may be misremembering this, but I want to say it might have been more like a anthology where it's not just about finding out who Diane Selwyn is. Yeah, okay, which was probably the main thrust of this pilot.

Yeah, that mystery of it. Who are these ladies? This is the girl? So let's just say I'm driving this buggy and if you fix your attitude, you can ride along with me. I like the dream theory.

I like the infinite loop theory a lot, either one of the and or purgatory. I think they're sort of almost synonymous. Yeah, that's what I was like. An endless loop would be hell right. Oh yeah, I mean like groundhog Day.

Hello, do you have any specific like. I mentioned before we recorded. For a long time, I honestly thought they were just playing different people or like doppelgangers. Yeah, is now Diane's story. These are just completely different people.

They just look alike, Yeah, exactly alike, not like similar, And so for a long time I just took it as they're two different people. Yeah, not really making the connection with the names or the names or coincidences. Diane Selwyn, we don't necessarily know that that waitress was named Diane, so well obviously she wasn't, but just Eamila Rhodes. Thing being Melissa George and the main story and Laura Herring and this part of the story. Yeah, I think for a long time I just sort of thought they either that or they turned into different people.

Yeah, which comes more from Lost Highway, Yeah, being his previous film, where like I said, one guy turns into another guy and sort of makes the other guy disappear. The real other guy kind of just gets taken over and goes way. You could say it kind of happens because they also poof right. So yeah, I think for me that was more my understanding, like swap out as opposed to dream or loop or anything like that. Yeah, Betty is now Diane, Rita is now Camilla.

Yeah, the other Camilla is still there, but she's probably not named Camilla. Yeah, I don't know. They're all kind of kissing on each other. Yeah, I pretty sure none of that was in the pilot for ABC. Not any of the lesbian that you don't think.

Well, I mean there could have been lesbian undertones, but not the stuff we see in the film. Yeah. I don't know if you I don't know if you saw my letterbox review, but all I put was just like hashtag Pride month. It did not surprise me even the first time I watched this that they end up together. Yeah, it was like no, Yeah, I feel like from the start Betty had a well because again me talking about her just like standing in the bathroom with her naked, and I was like, okay, girl.

Well and that's also just a naive t thing again, yeah, not giving someone their personal space, not so much like oh I'm admiring. Your Oh you're sick. Yeah, no, she's just silly. But yeah, I wasn't surprised either. Also, I think I kind of already knew because it's probably like such a pop culture thing that yeah.

It's a movie. Yeah. One of the things I read was like, really, why do we need this on this movie? Why not? It was just like shut up.

I'm like, also, like what do you Denise's in Twin Peaks? And that was it from eighty nine, Like why are you surprised that much? Well, just this necessary doesn't have they do with the mystery or finding out who Diane Selwyn is and blah blah blah, you know whatever. Who cares it's key to Diane's story because she's in Camilla. Camilla is getting married.

Yeah, I was losing her to Adam kesher and yeah, I feel like it is integral at a certain point, because that's like the whole reason she does a lot of the things that she does. Even in the dreamscape or purgatory part of her story. The mystery is there, obviously, but it's about her getting this girl. This is the girl. Yeah, Betty gets Rita in that portion of the story before they both disappear.

Oh I remember the other there is another the lady that sings that they go and see who sings is in twin Peaks their return She was in like was that eleven one of the last episodes. I just watched one of. The last of that section of episodes we watched. Yeah, and she sings too. Yeah.

Yeah, But I don't think anyone else other than the people that we already mentioned, unless I'm just forgetting well. The redheaded guy Scott Coffee who's at the dinner for Kimilla and Adam. I don't even know if he has any lines in this yet. I believe he had a bigger part in the pilot because if you look up the pilot online, there are screenshots of him talking on the phone. Oh, I see you.

He's part of the Hollywood part of the story. Yeah, he's one of the guys that's in the rabbit costumes in Rabbits. Oh yeah, and he was on one of the later episodes. You like just told me that. I think so.

It was one of the last few episodes that we watched. He was screaming about somebody Richard, Yeah, Steve, one of the creeps or I don't know, I was screaming about something. Yeah, I know who you're talking about. Yeah, and I'm sure, yeah, we might stumble on a couple more I don't remember. Yeah, I'm sure everybody's interconnected.

It makes me this is kind of more because the Robert Egger's Where Wolf trailer just came out, and a big thing I keep seeing people complain about is that it's like all the same cast members from like The Northmen in nos Fratu, And I'm like, directors have been doing that for decades. Yeah, it doesn't matter. I don't know what that complaint is about. It's I don't Mike Flannagan casts his wife in it, like every project he makes, like get over it. Yeah, and that's not something that ever enters my mind.

I mean, it does enter my mind, but it's usually in a positive like oh good they're working together. Yeah, Like, oh yay, I get to see Patrick Fischler again. Yeah, David Lynch used a lot of the same people over and over. Martin Scorsese does that. Yeah, tons and tons of directors do that.

It's like you said, I mean that's the norm in my eye. Yeah, I'm not. You work with people you're comfortable with that, you know, you can get what you want. Yeah, especially when you're like let's say David Lynch or Robert Eggers. I feel like they both have very specific aesthetics that they want, and so yeah, I would use the same people.

I know I can get that result from. Like I'm like, why do you care? Okay, I can see the other side of like I always want to work with new people to see what they have to offer. Yeah, like get new blood in that's valid. But like, yeah, I don't understand that as a complaint.

If we were talking about NEPO babies, then maybe i'd get it. But like, even then, I don't care. I have no issue with. You here, Like whatever, if they can act, it's good. It's the family business.

It makes sense. Yeah, you know, as long as they're talented. Yeah, that's my thing. Like if they're like a nothing burger, then I get annoyed. Do whatever you want.

This isn't like the government. Yeah, if you're hiring your family, who does that sound like your family and friends for your government job, then maybe I have an If she's yeah, movies and TV and music, I can care less. What it's literal entertainment like, okay, whatever silly stuff. I did want to talk about the Hollywood part of the story, just the scenes, like with the I'm probably saying their names wrong with Castiglioni brothers or whoever they are, Angelo Badlamente and I'm gonna forget his name, but them steering this whole production and calling the shots. And I believe the person behind all that is wheelchair man.

Yeah. I was gonna say it's the guy in the wheelchair and. The wheelchair behind the. Glass in his containment room too. Yeah, in his I guess Howard Hughes esque isolation booth.

Yeah literally what okay? And it's so interesting that it's Michael Anderson, the guy that plays the man from another planet or man from another place place, slash the arm, slash the tree. In slash whatever that thing is. So he was still working with that guy at that point, but it just always struck me as funny, having watched Twin Peaks quite a bit by this time, that he's in that wheelchair and has like leg extensions. I know he has like a full I think even he has like longer arms too, doesn'ty like it's just so it's so weird?

Are we are we supposed to think like, I know who this guy is, so I know that he doesn't have long arms and long legs. Or is it just this is interesting just because of maybe his head and relation to his body or what. It could be both I obviously because I've also seen Twin Peaks at this point, I was immediately like, what the hell because I know him as a little person, like he is obviously not that tall with the hell right? So I honestly it probably was both. Or is the character supposed to.

Like universe supposed to be like extended like that, or is. He I'm in a wheelchair, so why not just pretend that I have long arms and launch? Yes, it's neither here nor there, but it's just one of those things like this is so strange. This guy is. And I think even if you hadn't seen Twin Peaks, you'd probably be like, I don't think that guy's that tall.

Something is not right. Yeah, oh that's so strange. Yeah, I have no idea. I enjoy the Adam Kesher stuff a lot. Him going up against the producers or studio execs or whoever, bashing in their cars.

That was crazy. That was like his first thought to get back at them was just like destroy their car. And then he runs away and leaps in his car and drives off. This is something that David Lynch would have personal history with producers. I mean, I think he got lucky on in a lot of ways, particularly with The Elephant Man.

I think mel Brooks was like, man, do whatever you want. And I know definitely not with Dune Blue Velvet. I know he had gained enough trust with Dino Dilarentis to have stay on that movie. Blah blah blah. But you know, I'm sure he dealt with I know he dealt with this as far as censorship and things like that, things that had to be cut in a lot of his movies, particularly the violence.

So I understand that he gets this side of it, like, hey, put my daughter in your film, you know, speaking of nepotism, and for whatever reason, they want this Camilla Rhodes and in this version it's the Melissa George Camilla Rhodes. Yeah, they really want her to be the lead in this movie that he's making. So with him blustering that he doesn't care and he's not going to do this, they pretty much destroy his life. They freeze his MAK accounts and they don't make his wife cheat on him. But this kind is on the same day as well.

And yeah, I. Love that scene up in that fancy house of his with with Billy Ray Cyrus. I know that was crazy that you because like I recognized him, but then it just didn't click until you said that, and I was like, Oh, Mikey. Cyrus's dad and him ending up in that sleazy motel, then getting the call that he needs to go meet the cowboy, which is probably my favorite scene in this movie. Man's attitude, Man's attitude goes some ways.

The way his life will be. Is that something you might agree with. Sure, it's such a strange one. It's one of those ones though, that's pivotal to the movie because he reinforces everything that's gone on before with the Stiglioni brothers and the man in the wheelchair. They're directing all of this, and it's going down the line, all those phone calls that people are making, and you see the back of that guy's head on the phone and talking to the man in the wheelchair, and then the brothers et cetera, et cetera, on down the line, directing all this to happen this way.

Yeah, when he goes to meet the cowboy, and that's one of the things. His drive up to meet the cowboy is one of those things that sort of encompasses the whole movie for me, because it's creepy and it's just shots of a road. Yeah, at night, it's like just the headlight illuminating the road. It's very like ominous at points. Ominous is the word, and a lot of the movie is shot in such a way that many of the scenes done differently wouldn't appear ominous.

Yeah, it's almost like, I don't know if this is the right word, but sometimes it's kind of like voyeuristic, like just like looking in on stuff, and like even on the road where you're just like I shouldn't be like looking at this angle of the road at night with the headlights. It's very yeah, spooky. And the voyeurism thing, I mean that's blue velvet in a nutshell for one thing. And that is a through line again with this because a lot of blue velvet is shot in such an eerie way as well, and it's down to everything the lighting, the cinematography and the framing of shots. It's very unnerving throughout the film, just the way that people are blocked, you know, how they're set up in the shots and frames with each other and they may just be talking to each other, but it's like something is uncomfortable about this.

I think the creepiest for me. I mean the road part when he goes up to the cowboys pretty like spooky. But I found I was pretty uncomfortable during like the whole when Betty and Rita go to find Diane's apartment and they talk to the neighbor and it's just so like off and strange, and then of course when they finally get there, like into the building, she's dead. But like the whole, like a beforehand of just like being out in the yard looking through the windows, it's just weird. And that is another good example of that, And and the Winkie scene the camera, yeah, when he's talking, and it does that in other parts of the film too, And it's unnerving that drive up to see the cowboy and then his interaction with the cowboy.

I just absolutely love that guy. I love his delivery of those lines. I know I mentioned to you that he is like a producing partner of David Lynch's. Yeah he's not really. Yeah, it's just so perfect and how he is just like not having anything to do with this Hollywood assholes.

Dude, Like he does not care. He's like not being a smart alec. And this is totally a tangent. But when I think about, you know, this being a pilot shot for ABC, I'm like, yeah, you know, a lot of the scenes are like no cussing or no obviously there's sexual stuff in the newly added portion, yes, but I'm like, okay, this kind of makes sense, Like this is sort of tame in a lot of ways. Once, you know, I feel like you can kind of get the little like twinge of TV elements, but like not in a bad way, right, not at all.

It's just like, oh, yeah, this is like less if it were a different none even a different director, but just you know, if it was made for something else at the time, it wouldn't be maybe scripted in the way that it was. But I liked that just how simple it is, no cursing with the cowboy and stuff, because he still gets his point across. Well. Yeah, and also it could who knows that I don't even know if that's part of the pilot he says smart alec instead of smart ass. Yeah, smart ass in nineteen ninety nine.

I'm pretty sure you could say on TV anyway. So that probably has nothing to do with what I'm getting at, but it just made me think when I was remembering, oh yeah, this was originally supposed to be a pilot. Oh yeah, it's very tame. Yeah, certain sections of the film because like Blue Velvet, the effort is said I don't know how many times in the movie, particularly by Dens or only by Dennis Hopper. Practically there isn't a lot of that in this movie, and it's kind of surprising for David Lynch film, I guess.

Anyway, It's kind of nice though at times. I mean, I love like cursing, but sometimes it works better for stuff to like get the point across without you having to curse like saying smart Alec, I think works way better for the scene than saying smart ass anyways, So. Yeah, it does actually, especially for this character drips up as exactly this ridiculous ten gallon hat and. His hat everything, like the flannel everything he has on it. Just it makes more sense to not be cursing anyways.

Yeah, yeah, and to be able to get his point, his pretty threatening point across with raising his voice. I mean it's a very low tone monotone, not country but like homespun again using that word again. Yeah, delivery. I don't know, it's just that whole scene just tickles me to death every time it comes on. That's where we see, you know, the light bulb doesn't blow out, but it does that kind of you know clicker is really bright thing.

Yeah, and then the cowboy shows up and explains you're going to do this or your life is going to be miserable basically. Then that's when he's like, yeah, roads, this is the girl. Gotta do it. When you see the girl that was shown to you earlier today, you will say this is the girl now. You're not thinking, You're too busy being a smart Alec to be thinking now I want you to think and stop being a smart alec.

Can you try that for me? That whole thing with Adam kesher and then it morphing into the Camilla Rhodes part of the story and stuff is interesting and how that's different now you know it's not directed by the higher ups. It's he or maybe it is still but he's yeah, love with. Her and yeah, literally engaged in everything. Yeah, if you think about it too, like back to the theory thing, if you think about either her like last thoughts being romantic sized or like dream romanticization of it.

It's interesting that in like let's say, real life, in this version it's Adam marrying her and making her have the role, but in that other version, it's like the higher ups and stuff causing it. Mm hmm. It's like kind of an avoidance of that connection directly to Tamila. Just interesting stuff anyways. Another like kind of strange scene is the one where there it's when Adam and Betty are like staring at each other.

I think that's kind of a weird. It's spooky in a sense too, because it goes from her singing, which is a fun little scene. I like that scene, and then Yeah, they just stare at each other for like an uncomfortably long time. I think I always took that as since we're in this whatever dream portion of the story, he knows that I'm the person for this part, even though this is the first time this guy has ever seen me. Yeah, but somehow we've made this connec and he knows that.

It should have been her. Yeah, Sylvia North or whoever, that that's what the movie is that they're casting. Yeah, I kind of agree that it was some sort of recognizing her and that it should have been her, or just recognizing her period in a strange. Way, because she is in the Sylvia North story, in the Diane part of the story, she's an extra or whatever and gets to stay. When they close the set down and Adam and Camilla are kissing in the car, he lets her stay, which is just obnoxious.

Like okay again, like what twisting the knife in you know? Yeah, My favorite parts of the casting scenes are the songs that the girl's lip sync to. Yeah. I love both of those songs. I had one of them on my my on my phone.

I always say on my phone, whatever in my. Song your music, Yeah, you're downloaded stuff. And I could never find the Every Little Star song like it was. Every time I looked on iTunes it wasn't available, and there are other other ways I could get it on my phone. But this time I.

Found Oh there's sounds Oh cool, Okay. I found it on the soundtrack of a Japanese film. That's the only way I could get it through iTunes because on the Mulholland Drive soundtrack it's locked. Oh that happens so much. I've run into that so many times.

Yeah, I finally got it on my phone. I love the one that Melissa George lip syncs to the most. I like the other song as well. If the other gal does, Who's like, you know, I'm right for this part at him? Yeah?

Reason why. This fifties music and they're all fifties up. It's almost like futuristic too, kind of well. It's that atomic age. I mean, it was supposed to be futuristic back then in the fifties.

Yeah, the retro. I always had this idea that it's like a oh shoot, now I've forgotten her name too, Mariska Hargate's mom who died tragically in that car. Yes, yes, it's on the tip of my tongue. It makes me think that this is the kind of story. That this Jeane Mansfield, Mansfield, thank you.

I always assume that that's the kind of story they're telling here. It's going to be a tragic fifties pop star story. I don't know why. I just because of the movie and its mood and if it just makes me think that that's what they're shooting. Yeah, I get that vibe too.

It's just kind of again, it's just probably like the vibe of the movie period that you're like, this is probably an ominous little picture that they're making here. Because they say anything about what it's about, I don't know. I don't think they do. Do they know? I don't remember.

No, I don't think so. And I think they just say the title like maybe one soft hand. Yeah. I don't think they go into detail about that movie. But I really like that.

Yeah, it's just me. It's my cannon and my head canon. It's like, yeah, is about somebody dying getting their head chopped off in a car accident. That scene is just like also visually cool because she has that really like pale lipstick on. It's different looking from the rest of the movie, which I like, and also they're in that weird little I guess it's supposed to be like a projection booth for that movie, but it looks kind of strange because they filter in and out.

The girls like walk in and out of it. I think it's supposed to be a recording booth inside of the larger studio, if that makes sense. It's just it has cool framing. They're behind blast, I mean that's how Yeah, recording studios are. Usually it's like a little white box with the glass pane in front of them, right, it's cool.

Yeah, I like that scene. Yeah. I like both of the reheard or the auditions for that movie, like the songs, the different actresses doing it, they both give it. They're all lips very well to the songs. Just fun.

I really liked a lot of the like you said, well, we were kind of talking about it. Maybe more spooky, but just like, the framing and visuals of the movie are very enjoyable because to a certain extent they're different from Twin Peaks, which, like, I love how Twin Peaks looks and all of that weird stuff, but it is different and it also has its own differences within it, Like I said, it's very pastel in that audition scene compared to the rest of the movie, but it's cool. I think it looks very good. Aunt Ruth's apartment is very earthy, and you know these very good and. Yeah, early two thousands Tuscan house type architecture.

You know. And then Adams modern is cute on top of the. Hill and even the cowboy they're just in like a round pen and it's a nighttime. Very different looking for the rest of the film. Diane's apartment, those famous quote unquote snow white apartments, Yeah, I mean those things are amazing looking.

And even the whole Winkies portion, like that outside with the dumpster and the inside is different. It still has that kind of like old Hollywood fifties vibe to it, but it is different. Those diners in the La Area, I'll have kind of a very similar vibe to them. There was one in Pasadena that I always think of. I'm like, did they shoot that there?

But it's been in a lot of movies, but I don't believe that it's not that one in this Yeah, I think of it every time I watched the movie. But speaking of Diane's place and the clues, that sort of pop in and out of that, like her piano ash tray and the neighbor our ex girlfriend. I guess was that I supposedly switched to apartments with. Yeah, I just even when the timeline like changed, I just still assumed that they were neighbors. But I guess, yeah, that could.

I don't know. The vibe tells me that they are broken up. That's true. I didn't even think about that, Okay. In the Betty storyline, she says that they swapped apartments, But I think it was more like we were living together at point and then now we're swapping, like I'm going into this one and she's keeping mine or whatever.

Yeah, but she's coming back for her stuff. In the Diane timeline, she's coming back to pick up her stuff. That to me doesn't mean like, oh I moved out and left my stuff. We switched apartments and I forgot my stuff. It's more like you broke up with me, and I still have stuff here.

That's true to me. That's when we see the phone and the lamp again, And this is very true. The blue key, which is a normal blue key in the Diane timeline. Yeah, it's like a weird little triangle in Betty's timeline. Yeah, it's like a stylized key, and yeah, it looks like three D printed.

I know it's not because it's from you know, like two thousand whatever, but it kind of looks. It has that like it's very vibrant and opaque, which is kind of why it looks like that in my brain. Yeah, it's a little like triangle stylized. Guy, it's very possible that David Lynch made that himself. To be honest with.

You, he probably did. I believe it. Those little hints pepper throughout her apartment and the coffee mugs. There's a Winkies one I think at some point, and then a different one, and that I think are keys to the timeline, the clues that are given in the the es as well as other things. But it's just always that's what always confuses me though.

I'm like, wait, okay, the astrays there, but now it's gone, and the key is there, and now it's gone. She gets the key that confirms that they killed her. So yeah, what you know, the whole reason I'm bringing up her place is because when they find the body, but at the end, when she kills herself, when she shoots the gun and her room immediately fills up with that billowing smoke. With even right now as I'm saying it, I'm getting goosebumps for some reason that it's weird. I mean, it comes out.

I don't know if they played with the frame rate of that to make it maybe because it doesn't look sped up like fast motion, but it seems too probably to envelop the room much more quickly than any smoke normally would unless they were just had some massive machines pumping it in. Yeah, but it fills up that room so quickly, And that is another one of those unsettling eerie things. Yeah, that part is it's just like gross. The lead up to that is we get reintroduced to the kindly elderly couple that Betty at the beginning of the film. Dang, we really haven't talked about that whole thing yet at all.

Really, the elderly couple is like just strange and tiny. What's their deal? I couldn't explain that like at all. They drop Betty off, and then they have those rigored smiles on their faces. Yeah they're weird.

They seem pleasant enough, right, Yeah. And then they become tiny and like. Not when they drop her off, they go off in the car and she gets in the cab. Yeah, the camera follows them, sticks with them while they drive off, and they're just what what is going on? Why are they grinning like that?

Do they know what's going to happen? They stare at her and like kind of freak her out, and then she goes and kills herself. It's very strange. At the beginning though, after they go oh yeah, not when they come back as little tiny creatures, But they do come back when the man behind the Winkies opens the box or has the box, I guess it's already been opened, and the box falls round and they he. Opens it again, he does something with it, because then yeah, they come out of it and they're.

Like tiny, the size of not even mice. And then there's my hands apartment and crawl under the door and it re enlarge, which yeah, reminds me of eracer Head, because the baby's head gets huge at the beginning ship and terrorizes Henry. So they are there and they're terrorizing Diane as a part of this purgatory loop. I guess. I guess she just is terrified screaming as they're chasing her down the hallway.

People would probably be in my purgatory too. I don't bother me. Old people, creepy old people with creepy old smiles on their faces. Yes, I can understand that. Yeah, yeah, that whole aspect of the movie.

I'm just like, well, yeah, that happens. I have absolutely no explanation for like them being there. They do kind of perpetuate a lot of like they drop Betty off, which, other than Rita walking around kind of like starts the actual movie, or at least her plot. They walk out with her. That was my mistake to say they drop her off.

Yeah, they walk out and they get in their own car and she gets in a cab. But they accompany her. Let's say, you know, they're rooting for Yeah, it's all a very pleasant exchange. But is it because they they come back. I mean, just at the beginning, there's something off.

They're strange. Yeah, they're strange at the beginning, after. They depart each other, something off about that. And then yeah, once they come back, that leads to her dying, which sets off the other stuff. They're weird.

They're at the beginning and the end of the Loop. I guess we kind of already mentioned the like Witchy Lady that was awesome. Well, I mean, and who is she talking about? Yeah, Betty or Rita either both both probably. I think we kind of got all of it.

So as well. I guess you kind of did this at the beginning as the fourth of David Lynch's films that you've watched where it's this rank for you, I'd. Say probably like one for now. Okay, I don't know. Would it be between this and Firewalk with Me for you?

Maybe? But I think I still think it raised your heads up there, just because that was the first one that I watched, and it's so strange. I mean, it's a singular thing. It's so yeah, this is the only person who could have made this movie type of deal. I don't know.

That's like I feel like, I'm like, I don't want to compare them. But yeah, maybe I'll just say that for now. That might change though, we'll see. But I really liked it, I. Think coming out of it this last time, it moved up the number two spot Octopuly delve it out.

That may change at some point. Yeah, maybe went really really connected with it this time. Yeah, and a lot of it had to do, like I said, with the emotion of it, Like there's a lot more feeling going on with the characters, with the situation. I don't know something about it just feels. Yeah, there's a lot of emotional depth packed into the movie.

Right, I agree? Yeah? All right, Well, we are set to go on our next twin Peaks, the return episode as well. We have watched as I mentioned, seven through twelve, great great section of the show. That was a really good section.

Yeah, a very solidisode. Yeah, we'll dive into that stuff because it's a lot of fun. Oh yeah, a lot of clarifications and a lot of questions answered and a lot of errors on my part came to light. So we'll hit on all that stuff then. So I expect that pretty soon as well after this, and you know, we'll maybe watch another David Lunch film in the meantime.

Yeah, talk about that. Join us for all of that whenever they come out. Should people watch Mulholland Drive. Yeah, all right, thanks for joining me as always, Cleo, and thanks to everyone for listening, and we will be back very soon, I am sure. And don't forget anything can happen when you wake up heavy.

I hope that I never see that face ever outside of a dream. Wow, this has just been such a pleasure. I'm such a lucky boy. I can't wait to go home.