Dhoom 2

We're in Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Bollywood Cinema Club. I am the host of the Culture Cast, Chris Stashie, and I am here to talk about Indian cinema past and present and why you should be watching it. On this episode, I am joined once again by my good friend, writer of such films as Under Siege two, The Mothman Prophecies, and he's also the currently an executive producer and writer on DC Titans, which you can find on HBO Max seasons one, two, three, and four. Possibly the whole thing, but maybe just part one. Your friend in mine, Richard had him funny guy.

He's a funny guy. This one, Oh my god. On this episode of the Bollywood Cinema Club, we're actually if this is the first time you're listening to Richard and I. This is the second episode that we're doing because we already talked about Doom one, so we're gonna be talking about two thousand and six. Is Sanjay god V directed Doom two.

So Doom two stars horrific, Roshan Abishek Bachchan, Ashwarya Rai, Bi Pasha Basu and Udai Chopra and the film is centered once again around Abishek Bachchan and Udai Chopra as Jai Dixit and ali akbar Fete Khan, a cop and his now I guess cop buddy, who are once again tasked with taking down a no good, nasty thief, this time not so no good, not so nasty, very very sexy. I think I found my Indian man crush my god for thik Roshan plays Aryan Singhania, otherwise known as mister A, and he is going around the world stealing things and also doing a little doing a little weird. I'm gonna we're gonna make an a on It's a whole thing. We're gonna make an a on the map. It's very goofy.

And along the way. Ashwarya Raie plays sun Free Metra, a woman with a past who Ji Dixit brings in to help him catch mister A. So, Richard, we watched Doom one together not too long ago. Yeah, yeah, we did. It was good.

Yeah, it was pretty good. Right, tell me a little bit about what you thought sitting down to watch Doom two. Well, I was really excited about it because the first one was so much fun, and I was just like okay, so how can this one be any less fun? And it was even more fun there is Watching these movies is like it's definite eating ice cream. You know, there's there's no downside.

It's you're you're not trying to figure things out. You're not like, wait, what's going on? Like I was. I had to figure a few things out, but only because I didn't remember, you know, probably because I don't recognize these people as the stars that they are. So I'm still like, okay, now, okay, so she this character is also the one who is singing and dancing, because that's my big disconnect.

They'll they'll be having a dramatic scene and then suddenly those same characters are in a giant musical number, and I'm like, well, that would never happen in an American film. So are we introducing a new character who's a pop star? Now we're just watching these characters do their thing. And then it's like, okay, right, right, right, right, don't forget it's Bollywood. But to be fair, in the last movie, one of the characters was a pop star, so well, I know, yeah, that was that may have been the problem, to be fair, right, but wow, what about that sexty lady on the floor.

I'll tell you that Ashwaria Rye Bakchon. By the way, you can't forget that she's married to Abishek rightfully, so, I mean, obviously, Abishek Bachchan is the son of Ami tab Bakchon, you know Big b as he's referred to in Indian cinema for good reason. You know, it's funny Abbishek Bakchon. And you've seen an Ami tab Bakchon film. We watched Shole together which he was one of the leads in.

He you know, I don't want to say he does a great job evoking his dad, but he does a really good job at evoking his dad. I mean, he looks a lot like him. He carries himself the same way. And just like in the last movie, he's a great foil to our main character, who's the villain in this movie, the main character is the thief, not real, not really a villain. It's yes, right, it's it's an interesting way of telling the story.

They did it in the first movie, I think not as well as in this movie. I think this movie is a superior film to the first one in almost every way. Well, it was interesting because you know, it's two and a half hours, and at a certain point I and I was entertained throughout there. You know, there really aren't boring parts, but um but at a certain point I went, you know, I bet if I put this film right next to the first one, I think there were there were more action sequences in the first one. Yeah, I would agree with that one, and more musical numbers in the second one, which I have no problem with whatsoever.

I mean, I enjoy them both. But at a certain point, I'm like, oh, I think if if we're dividing it up, I think this one we've got more music, more dance numbers, more more of that, and frankly, excuse me, almost with more drama. And it's what you're referring to. It's it's you know, um uh ratheek Roshan Okay and Ashwara ry all right, who play mister A and and her her sort of code ename is Scenario. So they again, as the movie goes on, it's like, oh, we are spending more and more time focusing on the the the ins and outs of this relationship.

And at first year, it's like they keep revealing what it is. First it appears to be a happenstance meeting, then it turns into a partnership. Then you learn that it's actually a setup by Ji or Jay and um, and so they keep turning cars and really that's the story you end up watching. There really isn't like an emotional story at stake for the two main stars. Those two guys, the you know the cop and the you know criminal cop now cop now they're both cops, which is great.

I mean, it totally works. I'm glad that we have some character growth in between the movies that we don't need to see on the screen. But Jay now is just a cop who uses criminals as spare cop to get done. What mean, isn't that what he did in the first movie. It's it's exactly what he did.

So when that plot thing happens and you're sort of like wait, what, immediately you're like, oh, well, that's what he did with Alive, So that's okay, this is what he does. It's like, okay, I've caught you. Now you've got two choices, either you know, we imprison you, or you're gonna help me out, help me get a bigger fish, or you're you're a Stooley Sammy the Bullgravano style, like you know, you're just gonna yeah, which you know, is it Is it an issue that that kind of went back to the well in this movie with that, No, because they do something again, I think inherently more interesting with it. In the first movie, you had Ali infiltrating the group and then kind of you know, be you know, not knowing if he's a double or a triple agent even and that's you know, we got shades of m Oh God, the Chilean fat movie, Um oh God, A Better Tomorrow.

It had like kind of vibes of that, and this movie doesn't. This is a this isnt at its core. It's kind of a row mance in a way. A lot of the second and third act, not so much the first act, because the first act we don't really meet Ashwarya raise Sunia. She's not there.

She shows up towards the end of the first act, and then the second and third act it's kind of her and mister a back and forth. But I think for me, the thing that does work better is to your point, now that we have Jai and Ali established, we don't have to spend all of our time with them. We can have them in the movie. They can be a big part of the movie, but they're not the focus of the movie, right, right, right. And it was funny because so in the first act you've got by Pasha Basu playing Shinali, the old college friend of Jay, and and so for a minute, like like in the first act, there's sort of telling you, Oh, the story is that, you know, his wife, Sweetie, who's pregnant, is getting jealous of this old college friend who's now also a cop, and Jay is spending all of his time with her, and Ali is afraid that he's going to have an affair, and you you're never really worried, but it's kind of fun.

And my god, the people in this film are so good looking. Oh right. It made me angry at a certain point, like I almost can't take that much good looking. It's like, please bring some ugly people on screen. It's like, I can't handle any more of this.

She is gorgeous and so great and so much fun, and I really enjoyed that. And then you get to a certain point in the movie where she kind of injures her foot, and then she's gone and then they go to Rio and then she shows up again playing her own sister Monali, and that the whole other thing. And she's great in that too. But I'm like, oh, are they going to switch back and forth and now we're going to get you know, maybe both of them are We're going to do that thing, but we never do. It's like, Nope, first half of the movie on this character, second half of the movie on that character.

And at a certain point, I'm like, you know what, I'm fine with that. Well, it also gives Ali finally a romantic interest in the movie, which they kind of you know, with Sweetie in the first movie. They kind of dance around that. And then Sweetie obviously becomes Gie Dixit's wife and then his you know baby mama. She's pregnant with his child.

So she's effectively a cameo in this movie. It's called a special appearance, but it's effectively a cameo. She's in like what two scenes. Maybe the way the way I think of it is, you know, they shot her out in two days, Yeah, which is fine. I didn't That's the thing, Like, I don't need any more of that story.

What's That's what's interesting you know, looking at this, this is the first sequel that I've watched in any Indian cinema film, first proper sequel. Everything else I've watched has been you know. Ddlj's spiritual sequel is Cooch Couch Hota High, same actors, similar romcom thing, but different plot. They're playing different characters, but it's still the main actors together on screen. So spiritual sequel to the original movie.

This is a proper sequel. They're playing the same characters, but the villain doesn't return. Kabir Sharma doesn't come back in this movie, which I'm okay with John Abraham, the actor from the last movie. He's great, but critique, Roshan is just so goddamn charismatic. I've seen him in KKKG earlier this year, which is a fantastic kind of rum comm family drama adjacent movie.

It's I mean all I'm gonna say, all these movies are worth checking out, but he is really good in that as the kind of put upon brother who's trying to pull the family back together. And then when he shows up in this he is just it's amazing. Yeah, he's fantastic because he's not really a villain, Like he's set up to be the thief, the villain of the film, but there's no way you could side against him. There's no characters in this movie that you're eight that you're supposed to dislike. They're all written rather charmingly, even when they're not trying to be Yeah, it is sort of like he doesn't kill anyone.

He's not a killer. And they established pretty early on it's like he's a very good thief. He steals, that's it, So that's we're up against. It's more of a chess game. It's not like, Okay, these are truly bad people who need to be stopped, and you know, no matter what, we gotta stop him.

They do a little bit of a like when they're chasing him, Ali and even Jay in the various scenes where it's like, okay, you've just pulled off this crime and we're trying to stop you. They're shooting at him, like they're firing live rounds at this guy. They could easily kill him. But at one point Shinali, you know, she's practicing down of a gun range, you know, because he's the best shot in the world, you know, clearly, and and she's like you know, this bullet travels three thousand feet a second. No man can run that fact.

Why don't you just do that? And he's like, I'm not about killing people. It's like really, because you and Ali are shooting at him an awful lot. But okay, whatever, But I get it. I mean, I'm glad.

I like that to think, and I think that's important in a movie like this. I really like it when people have rules like no, our rule is were we want to capture him, not kill him, because then it helps you you become active in the movie because now you know the rules. Now you're watching to see if they break the rules. What are the consequences that they break the rules? So that's all great, But then later in the movie, in a scene where Jay and so the character's name is mister a is Aryan and it spelled Aryan like the Aryan race, which is a little weird, but okay, I'll go there.

But in the scene where they're talking to each other, Jay is like, yeah, I hope I don't have to kill you. And then I'm like, whoa wait a second, is he just bullshitting or is this or is this back on the table, Like is this going to be a thing. This is a movie where killing someone or not killing someone, being willing to kill someone or kill yourself becomes weirdly primary, especially down into the second half of the movie. Well, and that was the thing. If you remember the end of the first movie, you have the Keber character, you know, killing himself by jumping off of the waterfall with the motorcycle, which again, I mean they even ape it in this movie.

And they go in this movie where I think you and I both assumed as Westerners, given the what we've been kind of conditioned by Western media to assume that if they make a sequel, the guy jumps off the waterfall, but he survived miraculously because you didn't see a body, and he would come back for the second movie. No, no, he's dead. I don't even I'm trying to remember. In the first movie, were there people like who gets shot because they they're killing guys At the beginning of the movie. At the beginning of this movie, when we're introduced to Ali and Ji, they murder like fifteen or twenty guys in like in kind of hilarious Lomo fashion where they're standing up and shooting it.

People like just leaving themselves hypericks. Oh yeah, yeah, no, they're no is shooting these guys like their tin cans on a fence, yeah, and kicking them off. And I'm like, oh, okay, I guess we're doing that, you know, right. But the other thing is that, you know, and maybe again the way, you know, I'm watching movies and I'm still trying to learn the sort of the customs of the Bollywood film, one of which is all bets are off at all times. Anything can happens.

It's like, if we state everything as a rule early on, does not mean we are following that rule later literally, new scene, everything the deck is reshuffled and anything can happen. Which look for a movie of this kind, which isn't really asking you to invest too hard emotionally if they're if they're switching around a lot on how we are to understand the realism of any given situation. Um, it doesn't matter. We're just in it for a good time, and it is a good time. Well and I and that's you know kind of where my kind of overarching opinion for this movie, you know, it kind of comes in.

You know, I've watched now a fair amount of Indian action films, and this is one of them. And this is an Indian kind of cop action movie as opposed to a fantasy action movie like Brahmastra or a period action piece with fantasy elements like Triple R And you know those movies are Bahubali even, which is kind of a mix of all three. It's interesting, you know this one really is. It's I would say it's inspired by and you think you would agree a lot of Western at Hong Kong Cinema. I mean, again, it's similar to the first movie, but like you've mentioned, it does really let the action take a back seat in an interesting way.

Like the first movie was such an action movie and in a lot of ways this one isn't. But that's what makes it interesting is that since we do have these characters established and we're getting new characters being introduced to us that are being fully fleshed out, I kind of don't mind that it's missing the action. I feel like if I were if I were watching a Marvel movie or Bad Boys and there was an action every ten minutes, I'd be disappointed here or not. Yeah, I'm not either. I think one reason is because again we're dealing with a bad guy who is not leaving a body count behind him.

So we sort of feel like, well, okay, we're watching a bit more of a chess match. But the other thing is every minute is so packed with style visually and the sound design that even scenes where two people are sitting at a table talking feel amped up in a way. It doesn't like just drop into real life and then go into a heightened reality for action. Everything is heightened and the style of the movie, the director's touch is apparent every single second that no point do you forget that you're watching a movie that has been constructed for visceral impact at every turn. Weird sound effects and you know, music and and and audio stings for various lines, and that's just the found design.

And then we're pushing in on people and we're getting these long lens close ups and you know, a scene between you know, Aryan and scenari Is is on a basketball court in the pouring rain with bright lights. They're just talking. It's three pages, four pages of dialogue. But it's like, well, we can't just have that, so it's got to look like a music video, Frost with a beer commercial, Frost with I don't know what, and that's what it does look like. And so the entire time you're watching, you're like, well, is someone going to get shot maybe, or like what's the what's really happening here?

But it feels like, well, something's happening because there is seventy five million gallons of rainfalling on these people, so and they're just standing there like nothing of realistic, So you never know what's going to happen. Well, and I and you know, I agree with you obviously with a lot of these kind of things that the movie has in it, Like a lot of these scenes are just it's the next logical step beyond where it is in Western media, is what it feels like. They just it feels like in a Western action movie they give you those moments of kind of a lull to catch your breath. I didn't feel that way in this movie. Well it's the lull.

It's something that bothers me so much about Western filmmaking, in American filmmaking especially, is that, like with The Worst Offender are the Daniel Craig James Bond movies, where there is an effort, it's an exhausting effort, but it's almost like it has to be there to convince the audience that this is a serious, dead serious and be plausible. Now we all understand that the things that happen in James Bond movies are not plausible, But so much time I'm is spent explaining this you know, computer program or explaining this weird criminal enterprise that isn't interesting, is not compelling. You don't buy. It's not presented in any other way than to get this weird credibility, like this isn't We're not just a Roger Moore stupid games Bond movie.

This is real movie making. We're like the Born Identity or something. And it's like, I don't care. That's not what I go to. Certainly a James Bond movie for the mission impossible movies are a little bit better at just sort of accepting, Okay, look we're going to go some stupid, weird fun places and just enjoy yourself.

What I like about these Bollywood movies we're watching is that they don't spend a second on that stuff. They throw down a little bit of information that it sounds goofy even when it's being described, and then they just move on. Then they're all just dancing and singing and being fucking aggressively sexy. God, it makes me angry, and then the next and then you're having fun with I'll leave, you know, and I don't think anyone leaves the theater going well. I didn't like it because it wasn't well.

And that's the thing. I mean. You know, obviously, what this movie is inspired by and what it's drawing inspiration from is more like Mission Impossible, something like that, a spectacle action movie. But this one does lean a little bit more on the like you mentioned, the character drama, the interrelations between our main characters, and then the kind of the thief and his accomplice with mister A and Sceneri. It's I think that you know, that would not be It's not something that you would see in a in a Western movie like this, Oh no way, you would get laughed on the page.

The script would be thrown in the garbage because for the very things that we love the most. How amazing is the museum jewel theft where he's covered in white makeup and he's posing as a statue. Oh yeah, it's the freightiest thing ever. It's hilarious. It's like it's like it's funny.

You see it and you're like, Okay, I get what they're doing. They're paying off on the idea that he is a master of disguise and it looks weird and fun and I just want to see a play out. And then he's got the little the little remote control car that actually does the thieving of the jewel, and it's like, it's amazing. Yes, it's ridiculous. Sure it's stupid, but they give you just enough where it's you know, it's following the pattern on the ground so it's a little less noticable and you enjoy it.

I mean, it's stuff like that an audience loves and they don't need a tremendous amount of explanation. No, and and you know I agree. I mean there's a there's a scene towards the end of the movie, the final robbery, as it were, where they dress up like two of the seven Dwarves. It's again, it's if you if you go into this movie knowing kind of where its head is at, I think you're going to have a good time. I will say that I think it's a little a little bit sillier than the first movie.

I mean, those these two scenes, I think, you know, very much obvious, you know, points of reference that you could look at, like there's nobody dressing up as dwarves in the first movie. But I think what works is because this guy is a master of disguise, not just a motorcycle thief. I mean, that's that's the interesting thing here. The first movie is more fast and the furious. It really is.

It leans heavily on motorcycle chases and car chases and gun and gun play. I mean there's a fair there is a fair amount of gun play in the first movie. But this movie is feels a lot more like Mission Impossible or you know, like Get the Get Smart movie, not the TV show. I mean again, it's it's things that are kind of adjacent to Mission Impossible. Yeah, so okay, So Rafique Roshan, is he like at the time, I mean, two thousand and six.

I keep forgetting these movies weren't made yesterday, They were made sixteen years ago. Um, was he already famous? Like did audiences know who he was when they came to see this movie? Was he like a special like oh and they got this famous pop star or model or a person who exists in the public eye, or was this like Nope, no one's ever seen him for him in a lives. No, he was a he was a known quantity.

He had already made. He had already made Kabby Cushy Kaby Gum, which is the movie I mentioned KKKG where he is he's opposite amitab So Abishek's father. And then he was also in Laksha and Koy Mill Gaya, which is a movie where he plays a developmentally disabled young man. And it's not and it's and it's apparently it's very good. So it's very good or very bad depending on who you talk to.

I guess so I have never seen it. Um, but look, he's a really care as matic actor. He's also stacked. My god, I mean, dude, opens it. I mean, come on, he opens his shirt and you're like, he can just He's not just a good actor, he's also a really good dancer.

Oh he's great. Yeah, he's an amazing actor. What's really funny is that that whole opening sequence is just introducing him when he, you know, does that sort of skydive on to the top of the train and then he dresses up, you know, as an old British woman, your Queen Elizabeth the second you mean, well, yeah, but it doesn't look like her at all. No, for my money, it's just like, okay, old British woman got it. And then and then when when you realize that's where we are, And that's why that opening sequence is so important.

It tells you everything you need to know, which is is going to be over the top action. It's going to be insane heist. If no, it is not one hundred percent believable, but it's fucking fun and you're gonna have a good time. And and even within that first few minutes, it's not making a ton of sense. It's like, well, is it important that he that he waterski on the sand behind the train for a while?

Do we need that? Is that part of the plan? But apparently it was. And then he jumps back on the train and you know, picks that final guy's ass whatever. But then he's the one who is singing the theme song to the second movie, Doom too.

You know, here we are, we're doing it again, more Doom, you know, and he's and I'm like, well, wait, a Acain, He's not one of the guys from the first movie, so I guess he's just going to be sort of the guy for the second movie. All right, great, and I think that it really works, Like it's a really smart way to open the movie is to just introduce your fief as the hero. Yeah. Yeah. Now there is a weird scene in the second half, and it's the Russian Roulette scene.

Okay, it kind of comes out of nowhere. It's so melodramatic, like like, at a certain point, that was the only justification for it to that I could make. It's like, well, everything else is drawn pretty broadly broad comedy and sort of the sort of the partner of broad slapstick comedy in old drama is over the top melodrama, you know, just you know, we're big tears and you know, the shaking of fists and the gnashing of teeth. That's where that scene fit in. But I'm like, really, are we really going here?

We're gonna go full on Russian Roulette, and they kind of do. And that was the only scene where I'm like, this feels a little different, Like it's asking us to take emotions seriously on a level that we have not been asked to do yet in this movie. And I guess we kind of aren't asked to do again until right at the end. It's weird. Those I mean, those two scenes, they do kind of stick out.

I appreciate that they're in the movie because it does it gives the film some steaks, not that it didn't have any stakes, but it kind of doesn't have steak again when when the hero is the villain and the villains are still heroes themselves, because again, you could you could just say that Abbishek and Udai Schopper's characters are the villains to the hero that Critique Roshan plays. You could you could make that case, I think, given how much he's in the movie. But well, it's I think I think it's weird. I think it's weird that those scenes are in the movie, but it works, But also that the Russian roulette scene is totally strange only because it's trying. Are we trying to paint Critique Roshan's character negatively?

All of a sudden, yeah, I think that was it that that suddenly I'm like, oh, this is a little like I don't know if I I don't know if I like him for doing this and forcing her to play. I don't know if I like him. I don't I don't know if I like her for going along with it, you know, and she's willing to kill herself too. Well, then here's the funny thing is that they're not playing it like um like in a lot a lot of movies you and I have seen, you know, the undercover cop will someone will stick a gun in his hand and go, okay, you go out, go in that room and blow that guy's head off. And then the question is, oh, but he's a cop.

Now he doesn't want to blow his cover. Is he going to go so far as to murder someone just to further inculcate himself and and you know, both for his cred as a criminal, for the ultimate goal. We always have that scene, but now they don't play it that way. Here. They're not saying how far will she go to keep her cover and to convince mister a, mister arian that she is on his side.

You really get the feeling like she's half in love with him and what she is doing is based on her emotional devotion to this guy, you know what I mean. So it's purely emotional. We're not watching it like from a you know, strategic point. Well, and at that point he knew he knows that she's with the cops. I mean, that's the whole I mean, the whole kind of onus for that scene is I know that you are not here of your own volition.

You are here as the plant to turn on me, but in the same breath, you have now fallen in love with me. And so what does that mean for this relationship? I mean he kind of kind of talks about that too her right, and she's fallen in love with her too. I mean he feels both ways. It's reciprocal completely.

Yeah, prove your love to me by playing Russian roulette, you know, and and do you and then and then they'd be sort of going to the weird area of do you love it's either do you love me enough to kill me? Or do you love me enough to kill yourself or something. It's like, I think it's the first one. I believe it's the first one, but she does the second one in that in their initial scene, because then they echo it in the second scene. Yeah, they're like shooting in each other and then she goes to kill herself and it doesn't work, and I don't know it was it got a little grim but by the end I'm like, well, okay, So all of which is to say she's in love because she's the only the only thing you're tracking in this movie, beyond the plot of you know, will mister you know, will Jay catch mister A, The only other thing you're watching is what is she going to do?

She's the only character in the whole movie who has a decision to make, right, and then she makes it, and and you they double back, like they kind of twist at the end where you're like, oh, maybe she did. Maybe at the last minute she decided she's going for her own freedom, and then they resolve that in a final scene which I loved. But again, if you were studying this in a film class and you had to write your mid term, she's the main character of the movie because she's the only one who makes a decision, that's fair. Yeah, I mean everybody else is pretty much set on their courses. I mean, Amyshek Bachchan and Udai Chopper really are supporting characters, which is so crazy.

That is not the way you that's not the way you would make this movie well, which you know in a Western context, right, But yet I think it's so smart to do it. This way, because I don't know how much more I need of either one of them in a in a leading capacity. And frankly, Fritique Roshan, I think, is so charismatic that you kind of forget how charismatic the other two actors are because they're just as charismatic as he is. It's just everybody else is taking a backseat to the Ritique Roshan and Ashwarya Rai relationship, which is so smart, Like they don't they don't make this movie this way. As an American filmmaker, this this goes almost against why you're making this movie as a sequel to begin with, right, Yeah, And you know, um and Jay's character is so kind of you know in a way one note.

I mean, he's very you know, becomes so in the last in between the movies, which I guess that was one of the things that I had an issue with. It's like he became a little he almost was like the character he was at the beginning of the last move. Yeah, he becomes very almost like almost grumpy. You know, he's just very you know, stern, and and and then you know, Ali is you know, so much the opposite. He's so big and so frenetic, which which is great and super enjoyable, and he's just as funny and engaging in this film as he wasn't the first one.

But but yeah, Jay gets a little like, Okay, I get it. You're you're a dog with a bone. You're gonna hunt this guy down. That's all you care about. And you're you know, there really isn't a lot else going on with your character.

In fact, the only thing he kind of comes alive for are the scenes he has with with uh, with thief and almost to the point, like almost to the point because those scenes are so charged with a certain homoerotic energy, you're almost going wow. He he kind of loves mister a. You know, there's something going on here that is the on just Compton, Robert. It's almost like you're super hot, You're a great thief. Maybe we could just you know, punch out for a while.

I will be a cop, you will be a criminal, and we could just hang out and rio for a while and see what happened. Well, and and that is and that's the and I actually one agree with you. I mean, that's the thing that is for me, one of the more entertaining aspects of the movie is there is that going on, right, But I like this, I like I do like this kind of deconstruction and boiling down of that relationship between the cops and the criminals, at least in this aspect. In this context, it's you enjoy chasing me as much as I enjoy running. Yeah, yeah, there is.

There is this weird sort of seductive, you know, dance going on between them. And it is funny because American movies do not do they never tip the homo erotic hand. That's that's the business of the audience member to read into it or not read into it as much as they want to or do not want to. But um, but here it's a lot more evident that it's like, hey, we're both really hot movie stars. You know, why waste this on a chick?

Let's go. It kind of verges on what they talk about with something like Batman and The Joker, right, It's like, I need you as much as you need me. You without me, there is no you or without me, you know you, there is no me. I like that they do touch on that. I would have preferred there to be more scenes between the two of them.

Between Rithik and Abbyshek. I would have preferred that. I mean, I know why they don't, because again, the fact that they have two or three is enough. But I would have again, well, I would have preferred more because it was it was the moment when Abbyshek Bachon really kind of rose to the occasion, not saying he's sleeping through this movie, but they don't give him a lot to do. Intentionally, Yeah, he seems a little over day.

He's kind of like, yeah, okay, I get it. You're funny one. I'm the boring one. Okay, whatever. Like it's sort of like, yeah, you're here, but I'm annoyed with you, not so with the other guy.

What I love is that final scene though they really wrap it up. I think the resolution of the movie is so great, up to and including the six month break because it allows everyone to kind of walk out of the theater feeling good. You know, it's like, okay, great Rifique. You know, or Arian gets together with Sunari. They're together.

It's a real relationship. Yes, our cop Jay is super smart. He tracks them down, but he tracks them down and watches them for six months and there's no crime. They're just running a beachfront cafe. So he's sort of like, Okay, I'm here to tell you.

I know what you're up to. I'm smarter than you. I will always find you. But you seem to have given up your life of crime. And as long as you just run this little cafe, I'm happy to walk away.

And and that's how it resolves. And you're like, that's perfect, that's great, that's all I need. People aren't dead, people aren't murders. Everyone's happy. They figured it out somehow, somehow, that scene at the top of the waterfall was anticipated and planned for by our two romantic leads.

I don't know what they did. If she was shooting blanks or if he had on some sort of weird kevlar vest underneath his non existent Sure I think he had squibs. That's what my interpretation was, the way he was reacting and shot right, So she was like over tis Yeah, he's really he's selling it big time, and not like in a bad way, but like it. When you see that scene after the fact, it kind of reinforms the climactic scene at the waterfall. Well, not only that, but there's that other scene where they're at the top of the damn or the cliff or whatever, and he says, if you trust me, shut and then she does and he jumps and he hooks the the you know, the chord or whatever onto her midfall, which is terrific.

But it's almost like that scene exists for the viewer who's going, I don't get how he survived at the end, and it's like, oh, well, maybe after he jumped. Secretly, somehow he had a bungee cord that we just didn't see, you know, running, you know, connected to his foot or something, and that's how he did it, because we saw him do something kind of like it before, so we'll just believe that's the boil well. And the other thing is, you know, if you think about it in the context of the first film, it almost feels like a do over of the first movie in a lot of ways. Like the climax of this movie, you have the characters confronting the villain at a waterfall, you have him going over the edge, and in the other I mean, we talked about it.

The last time we talked about doom, I for fucking was sure that he was going to survive and come back as the villain in this movie. Because that's what I've been conditioned to do as a Western filmgoer, is if they're going to make a sequel, they're going to bring back at least the heroes and probably the villain as well. Nope, but in this movie they do that. I mean, I know for a fact he's that the character of mister Aid has not come back in the third one. The villain in the third one is played by Amir Khan, who is a massive actor in his own right.

But it's interesting. This movie is almost like you could pitch this as Doom One, like you know what I mean, Like Doom One exists as kind of the prequel story to Jay and Ali's relationship, but it doesn't. You don't need it to enjoy this movie at all, right, because there's no specific element of the narrative that is important enough to the viewer who want to see it continued. Right, You don't need the exact story. You just need the parts and the pieces and the people.

You just need to know, Okay, you know, Ali and Jay will be back. There'll be a big crime, there'll be a bunch of action sequences, there'll be a bunch of dance sequences, and they're going to be playing essentially the same character. They'll be a new bad guy, you know, and they'll either dial them up or dial them down in terms of threat violence, you know, homicidal tendencies, whatever. And there'll be a couple of beautiful women who play integral roles in both stories, you know, just the cop story and the bad guy story, and then we're good. And that's all you need.

And as long as we have those elements, the exact story that's being told matters not at all, I agree, And that's and that for me is why I really feel like, yes, this is a sequel to the first movie, but in a lot of ways it stands alone as its own thing. And yeah, the first movie, the first movie, informs me about some of the decisions and why the characters are the way that they are. But I think this movie does a good enough job on its own in that first fifteen twenty minutes of reintroducing the characters to people that may not know who they are to begin with. And yeah, again, is Abbishek Bachton written a little flat in this movie? Sure her, but he's again ostensibly the film's villain in a lot of ways, Like that's the way he's written, is written as a villain, sort of a villain, as in the cop chasing after our thief.

Not that he's a bad guy, that's the thing. It's just it's there isn't this in the Oceans movies, In the Oceans eleven movies, there's not a cop that's chasing after them throughout the movies. But no, there really isn't. That would be great though there should be, isn't there? I don't know?

And that for me is kind of what this movie has that those movies don't, which is that interplay between the thieves and the cops and what that means and where do you stand inside and where is the movie trying to get you to sign? Because the movie's pushing you in a direction clearly of who you're supposed to sympathize with in this movie. From the amount of time that they give to Ritique Roshan to the way Abishek's character is written, it's all being done in a very calculated way to make you fall in love with the leads a Shwari Rai and Frittie Roshan and almost everything else is unimportant. So okay, so we were there was a minute there where we were going to watch two and three and then talk about them at the same time, and then we're like, oh, they're kind of long.

Let's just three hours of peace. Yeah, but so but you have not you have not gone ahead and watched three yet, have you? Okay? All right, so we don't know, like we don't like I can guess because so here's my guest. Then okay, having not seen it, here's my guest.

Because it ends with Ali and Manali getting together, and it's like, oh, it looks like, you know, they're still together. Six months later, there's still in a relationship. So it's like, oh, things are going great. So now the question is when three begins, is he still with her or has there been a reshuffle And it's like, oh, no, she had to leave, or we broke up, or she decided she didn't like me anymore. And now I'm back to being the guy who was always talking to Mummy up in heaven hoping for a woman.

So I can my fantasy of getting married and having a bunch of kids will play out? Do we reset him or do we come back and he's in a relationship with that actress, they're married, they have kids, and now he's been pulled away from that family to join Jay on the next mission. Now, at the end of the movie, Jay says, we've already got our next job. So does he pull him away in that moment? Does it really happen right away?

I mean, I don't know, But because nothing matters, I feel like we should make a bat Well, that's why I was. I honestly think the next movie will have the two of them further removed from the story. I think that they'll be like the equivalent of like the bosses of the people doing the investigating. Oh my god, really, like I think that's on the hunt. Oh well, that's the thing.

Like I don't know. I mean again, this movie kind of already does that with their characters. It takes the two characters that were it leads in the last movie and removes them a little bit. They're still chasing after them, but in the reverse of the last movie. I wonder if in the final movie it will be a further removing of them to like an official boss capacity and there are people that they're interacting with and they have to go out at the end with everybody.

Like I don't know, again, Like this movie has kind of shown the pre established characters and their importance to the story aren't necessarily what's driving us as filmmakers to create a sequel. Well, so, what how many Doomed movies are there? Three? Well, there's only three. It's not life three, fast and Materious, where there's ten or something.

Okay, Well then okay, then my guess is they're still central. There's still the two you know, um Ali and Jay are are the two main cops. I'm gonna that's what I predict. And then I will further predict that that he uh that the relationship does not maintain between Manali and Ali, that he's pulled away from her, and we we see no more of that character. And uh, maybe there's some romantic complication where some girl falls in love with him and he's like, oh my gosh, should I be true to Manal or do I go with this new girl?

But I'm going to bet that it picks up right away and he has pulled away from the happiness of being in a relationship to being back on the job. And we go from there and they are the two main cops that's going to be my guests. And see, the thing is like you know, we already had kind of we were already essentially completely wrong about this movie the last time we did it. It was like completely wrong, Which is really funny because that what informed my prediction and your prediction just now, like your prediction now is more informed than it would have been last time going in this movie, because we've seen this movie now. But it's wild to me how much of a backseat our main characters from the first movie take in this movie, because they're right.

You know, that's even even in the Western media that does that say something like, oh, I don't know, I mean you could I let's just you know, using a very contemporary example, Spider Man No Way Home, right, it has a main character of another movie in it. It has Doctor Strange Benedict Cumberbatch, right, but he's playing a supporting role in that movie. That movie that had been this movie would have been advertised as a Doctor Strange movie. But Spider Man is the lead. That's the way this movie, you know, you know what I mean, This movie is advertised as their movie, but the thief is the main character throughout, and I would not have ever anticipated that going into this movie at all.

That's not a thing being beyond being a cop as his profession. There's no feeling. It's not like we're not checking in with Jay's boss going if you don't solve this, you know you're fired, or we suspecting you're in on it with him. I mean there really, it's like it's just another case. It's right, he's a guy, dog with a bone.

He's going to do his job. It's like, okay, whatever, and Ali is basically there to help him because he's still a little bit on the hook, you know. It's like I kind of have to or you're gonna lock me up or something. So yeah, that's my guest for Doom three. I'm totally up for watching Doom three whenever you want.

Whenever we got to pick up the mics again and talk about Doom, I'm I'm ready. I'm ready. So as we bring this episode to a close, I'm curious what since we've kind of talked around it but haven't really talked about it specifically, what did you think of the action set pieces? I thought they were good. I wasn't as weirdly, I wasn't as blown away.

I was somehow the themes were showing a little bit, you know, I'm sort of like, oh, okay, that's okay. I get the concept of what they're doing, but it doesn't look as convincing. I'm not gasping. I can sort of tell that there's a green screen, you know, behind them in a lot of shots, and that it's not their faces in various it's like, well, okay, that's fine. So I was a little underwhelmed with the execution, although I think the concept of the action sequences were all really fun.

The the heists and then the chases afterward it was all great and then but the musical numbers fantastic. I just I could watch them all day. Fun. And you know, to talk about the action scenes, like you've clearly mentioned, is one thing, but the musical numbers in this movie just again, that's that for me. You know.

Again, everybody always talks about, oh, Indian cinema has music in it. Yeah, yeah, it does. And what's kind of wild is there's plenty of Indian cinema that's come out more contemporarily that doesn't, that doesn't have it at all. And I've watched some of those movies and they they work too. It doesn't it doesn't require it.

It's not a requirements like somebody's smacking you on the hand if you don't add musical numbers to your film. But it's such a welcome kind of palate cleanser. I don't know, like it does something for me when I watch these movies where it gives me an opportunity to kind of just not forget the movie, but kind of just have a fun little moment with the characters. Well, what it does when you were talking earlier about how Western films will will have downtime to let you catch your breath before the next big action sequence, in a weird way, that's what this does. It's a tonal reset, and it resets you not into the real world, but into a world that is even more heightened than the world where the action takes place.

So you're watching and it's the movie repeatedly telling you we're just here to have fun. Even when people are getting shot at, don't worry because the ultimate world this movie exists in is a formal creation that does not touch on your life when you leave the theater. And I think that's great. I find that that is something that again, Western movies, like the James Bond movies used to have in fact, I mean most movies used to be pretty okay with saying we're a movie, so don't get to it's a movie, have a good time, it's in popcorn. Get the fuck out.

Now. Everything is is, you know, trying to, you know, convince you that it's great art and it's important, and don't have too much fun. Why should we feel embarrassed to be entertained by a movie. Why should a filmmaker feel like they're not allowed to entertain the audience? That's what I don't get, Like, you know, you work in the industry, and you've seen this trend, and you were, you were and are still writing.

You knew what led that charge. It was shit being successful, like the Nolan Batman movies. Those Nolan Batman movies were so successful that they created a cottage industry of taking the things that you love that are bombastic and over the top and draining them of all of their I won't say life, because I don't want to besmirch all the people that made these movies entirely, but you're draining of, at least for me, the fun, the excitement. I don't I don't watch an action movie and go how many bullets did I have in that gun? Count the bullets that he shot?

Right? And the amount of bullets and a gun only matters at one point when the action is slowed down and one character is pointing a gun at the other one and it clicks. That's the only time gun ammo amount ever matters is when they're running out or if they don't have enough. It never matters otherwise, and it shouldn't. It's a fucking movie.

But at the same time, those Christopher Nolan Batman movies ushered in a period of time, and I think we're finally, maybe hopefully at the tail end of it, where the big budget tent pole movies of the summer outside of superhero movies. Mind, you have to be grounded in reality and realistic and there have to be real world stakes. And James Bond is trying to take down the guy who stole the knocklist of the spy names, and it's like, oh, like, you're you're making this so boring and and and frankly fucking pedestrian, because real life ain't that exciting. Real life ain't that fun? Like you know, like, well, I think I think there was there's going to trade off because I think if you go back to say the seventies, there was a little bit of an attempt in horror films like The Exorcist, for example, to make them very realistic.

So like everything in the in the in the movie The Exorcist feels like it's just like a real movie of real people, like this menery in a lot of the best moments, yeah, like like oh, we're just like these are people that are living in Washington, DC, and this is what's happening. And then there's really weird scary stuff, but all that real stuff made the scary stuff feel real. Or now the trend in horror films right now has now gone the other way. Now it's more like the Conjuring, where they're not they sort of nod to real life. But really, you know, you're watching a movie the entire time, and the question is how effectively are they scaring you, either with you know, the quality of the computer generated effects or just the filmmaking in and of itself again, you know, the sound design and editing to give you a jump scare.

But like movies like to Conjure and a lot of that sort of blubhouse stuff, those don't feel realistic at all, Like no time is spent trying to low you into the sense that, oh, this is my world. You know, it's just like here's mom, here's dad, here's the kid. Oh my god, and then you're off to the races. So there's been a weird trade off where where now the burden is being carried, the burden of realism by you know, action movies and and and it's it makes them know fun. So I say, let's get back to the fund.

So, like, the only thing that's allowed to be fun now really are the Marvel movies, and even those can take themselves a bit seriously and um, and then broad comedies, you know those those are still allowed to be you know, a movie Bad Boys can still be a Michael Bay movie. And you're watching a movie and I'm just not a fan of it because it excludes Western and American filmmakers from making movies like this one, like Doom two. A movie like this should be made in some capacity in at for Western eurse in some way, because we don't have movies that are fun like this anymore. We really don't. I mean, I'm not saying they're all gone, but the sense of having fun with an action movie just it's you're not allowed to say one liners anymore, like oh my god, like what is your fucking problem?

And you know what, I appreciate that there are people that like that. I appreciate that there are people who yearn for that at their movies. You know, could fanos have Actually what are you able to be able to snap with that? Woman? Fanity gone?

Like what we who are these people that are asking these literal questions? And why are they getting so much attention from people? Is my question. It's like you said, it's a movie, it's entertainment. It doesn't even necessarily have to be considering itself art.

You might consider an art, but it might not consider itself art, you know, and we're not used to it. We're not used to that kind of filmmaking. But if one person does it, if one person makes a movie, you know, if it's on Netflix or that gets released, and the whole point it is, Oh, they're just going out there. It's like it's an action movie, it's a musical, it's all that stuff. If you just take now, will steal it back from Bollywood?

Bollywood you know feeling, you know, elements of Western narrative and throwing it everything into the same pot and serving it up. What if someone just steals it back and says, okay, but now we're going to take it back, and we're gonna do that, and it's gonna be Ryan Reynolds and whoever. But they're gonna sing and dance and they're going to shoot guns and they're gonna be crazy action and we're not going to apologize for it within the movie. We're going to play it straight within the movie that we are. We're doing all these things and it's not a parody of Bollywood and it's not satire.

It's we're actually going to try to hit the entertainment value that these movies are hitting out of the park every single time. Well, and that's the thing, you know, you're totally right about it. If they were to try to make a movie like Doom or a movie inspired by Doom one or two, they would have a scene where there's a character going, oh no, they're breaking into song again. And there's none of that here. There's never any of that.

There might be some of that in a in an Indian cinema that I have not seen yet, where they're kind of like oh, you know, hanging a lantern on it, which could be funny. I mean that there could be something to be mined from that of characters being cognizant of it. But that's the way it would be played in an American cinema. You'd have Ryan Reynolds going, oh, they're breaking into song again, and it's like, you can in this you can't. You have to play it straight.

And with this level of performance in filmmaking, who cares when they break into a dance number. You're You're enthralled. It's right, it's ten times better than the best Super Bowl halftime show you've ever seen. And what's to complain it? It's not boring, it's not a ballad, you know, it's just and now we're gonna have some fun and have a lot of really hot people do some great dancing.

Shut up, right, And that's and that's where I'm I am in the exact same spot. You know, that's for me. You know, we've talked about it, and I think I've said it on almost every episode of this show that I've done. The sense of joy, an unbridled passion that comes through in these movies is apparent. The love of filmmaking.

It doesn't feel as and again it probably is. We're just Westerners viewing it through our lens. There probably is a massive dose of cynicism to a lot of these movies, just like there is in our entertainment industry, because again people get jaded and all of that. But the way it comes across on screen not that at all, not that at all. By the end of this movie, I was one hundred percent on board with whatever the third one is, but also completely enthralled by how much fun this movie was.

Because this movie has fun, and that sense of fun that the movie is having is translated very clearly to the audience, and that's not a thing. Western films, just not action movies, just don't have that anymore. I don't go watch a movie like Commando anymore, or you know, even Terminator too. Frankly, like those that was when you could it was again, you know, Asta Lavista Baby like that that became part of the pop culture zeitgeist of the time, Like that's ingrained in pop culture now. But even then, like, we don't have that anymore because you're not allowed to have fun, I guess, and like you said, even with Marvel, like they'd stop themselves from having fun plenty.

Yeah, well, you know, and but look, things change, you know, things change in American cinema. They're clearly changing in Bollywood cinema. And so we'll see you, I'll see if we're having the same conversation in ten years, you and I, You and I probably will be having the same conversation, right well, and again, that's that's the thing about this movie and Doom one, and again we don't know yet with Doom three, it's as someone who didn't grow up with these movies, but it's coming to them now as an adult to appreciate them like you, like myself. It feels like just opening up a treasure chest full of the greatest gold that nobody that everybody else has already touched, and you're just getting to look at and like play with.

You're getting to see and play with somebody else's toys out of their like their toy box. That's what this feels like. Like I'm angry myself that it's twenty twenty two and I'm just now seeing this movie. Yeah you know, like yeah, and that I think for me is the biggest takeaway. So final final thoughts.

Richard on Doom two even better than Doom one. Can't wait for Doom three. Same. I'm right there with you. I am excited to see what Doom three brings.

I have heard from people, my friends that I that I went to high school with, who I am still very close with. I have heard that Doom three is not great, but I have heard but but they really liked Doom two. So all right, there you go, and I will find out. I think they all agreed that this movie is better than Doom one. But yeah, I don't know how you could watch Doom one and like it more.

Just Heritique Roshan in this movie, just everything about him that other movie doesn't have Ritie Roshan in it. There you go. It's yeah. So the next time Richard that you're joining me, we're probably going to be talking about Doom three. But until then, where can people find you?

Should they be wanting to look? Well, like you said on HBO Max, you can watch Type. They've got seasons one, two, and three in their entirety. And we're since we're recording right now in late November, I believe the first half of season four has aired, and now we're going to take a break and I'm not sure when we're coming back, but we have six more episodes in season four, Season four, Part two, and that'll be sometime in twenty twenty three, So catch up over the holidays check out Titans, and then in the new year we'll have six more to close out season four. As for me, you can find me over at Weirdingwaymedia dot com, which is the podcast network that Mike White If, The Projection Booth and I have set up so that we can have a place for all the things that we work on both together and separately, including this show and a whole host of other shows, including but not limited to, the Culture Cast, The Projection Booth, scary stories we tell, Twisted in Uncorked, and a little show that you may have heard of or not that features Richards Why Susan Lambert had him?

Eighties TV Ladies, which she and her co host Sharon host every other week talking about TV shows from the eighties, featuring You Guessed It Ladies, Richard? Do you like that show? You're on that show, aren't you? I've been on a few times, but I told Susan it's like I got it back off. I'm just I'm just this annoying male voice.

You know, it'll be eighties TV Ladies with Richard had Hms. Yeah, when I hear it, it's like there's a cigar on my mouth and I'm like, all right too, let me tell you how Hollywood really work. And I'm like, oh god, shut up. I'm sure all listeners say that way to hear my voice on anything. But anyway, I was.

I was on a couple early episodes and now I'm really not on anymore because now they're interviewing amazing people. So tune in for celebrity interviews and fun talk about you know, all all your favorite shows from the eighties and yeas for this show, Bollywood cinemaclub dot com. No social media, not yet or maybe there will be. Who knows, social media sucks and we're seeing the downfall of it in real time, which is fun. Thanks social media for providing a way for us to watch your own death.

And yeah, the next time you hear one of these episodes with Richard, it will be Doom three and until then we'll catch on the next episode