Tiger Zinda Hai

Weird in we Hello everyone and welcome to the Bollywood Cinema Club, a podcast where we take a look at Indian cinema every other week. I am your host, Christashi, the host of the Culture Cast, where this show was spun off from. I am joined by my good friend and soon becoming Indian in film. I don't know connoisseur at least that's for sure, your friend of mine, graphic artist man about town dustin tout tu tara, tutututu tutara? Why would you make me say this?

God? On this episode of the Bollywood Cinema Club, we are gonna be talking about the second film in the y r F Spy universe that totally was planned, no way that the first movie in this franchise ended in a way that the sequel kinda feels. First, we're talking about twenty seventeen's sequel to Ek the Tiger. We're gonna be talking about Tiger Zendai. So the film is directed by Ali Abbas Zafar and it stars the one and only Solman Khan and Katrina Keff, both returning from Ek the Tiger, along with a couple other actors returning from Ek the Tiger, specifically Garish Karnad who plays the Chief of Chief Shenoi once again.

And wouldn't you know it, the world needs Tiger and Zoya because well we've got a batty played by Sajah Delafruz who is Abu Ousman, the leader of an Iraqi terrorist group who's hell bent on taking over a hospital and well making a point of it. This movie is based off of the twenty fourteen abduction of Indian nurses by isl but that's essentially just the setup. That's the inspiration. The Salman Khan did not go and save. Regardless of what anyone would say, Dustin, I am so very curious because you and I have been You and I kind of experienced these movies out of order.

We experienced Aton first and then Eck the Tiger, and now Tiger's into High, and I'm curious Tiger's into High. Tiger is alive? Did this movie live up to the expectations that the first movie set? It was different, totally different vibe of the movie. I mean you kind of mentioned it that, like how it starts, they're trying to take how the first movie ended and connect it to this movie.

I'd say, once they got done with that. It was kind of kick ass. For me. I really enjoyed. And you know, we've talked about how long these movies can be.

I like that they are because it allows for a lot of Especially in these kind of movies, you get to see a lot of the espionage in the you know, the planning and the strategy that goes into what they're trying to do instead of just trying to cram it into a you know, an hour and twenty minutes or whatever hour and thirty minutes. It's leaves a lot of room for more entertainment, I guess, But I thought it was kick ass. There was lots of action. Solomon Khan is like an Indian Rambow. He's a badass.

Yeah, he you know, I mean again him as a person aside, he is such a fun character in this movie. And again, like like you I had mentioned, he he's drawing from a lot of other similar characters that we've seen before in Western cinema, like Rambo in some parts of this movie, again James Bond, because he's a lot of ways he's kind of prototypical James Bond character. But yeah, for me, I enjoyed about two thirds of this movie. I think the first third of this movie is a little narratively and tonally all over the place. I mean, look, I don't have any issue with them having a kid and the kid kind of being this precocious, little cute child, and oh they have to fight wolves in the wild and it you know, it's it's fun again and keeping with this idea from the first movie of There on the Run, and they will be back when they are needed.

And again, if this movie never existed, that you know that movie ends and they're just, you know, off having adventures in the world, and like, that's a fun way to end the movie. That's the way Buckaroo Bond's eye ends, right, like he's off in the world doing thing. So I mean, again, like this, I'm not going to say this movie feels unnecessary. That's not the case. I enjoyed this movie a lot.

There's a lot of fun things in this movie, a lot of fun performances I'm sure we're going to talk about. And there's some kind of fun twists and turns. I mean, not anything that's unexpected, but the kind of twists that they do have I think work more or less. But I think I could have done without them all of a sudden having like a family life. I mean, again, I get what they were going for, because think about the way we reacted when we saw the trailer for Eck the Tiger the first time.

There's that whole like I guess, like quaint living, like like the normal social life that apparently they're trying to have him have as the cover he's supposed to be like a normal guy, and it's kind of the reverse of that here they're trying to pretend to be normal, but they're clearly again like unable to fight the fact that she's a secret agent and he's a secret agent. Essentially, I don't I mean, I know that they're raw and isi, but they're effectively both James Bond, so which is awesome. Like that's the way these characters should be. They should be larger than life, and it totally works. I just think by trying to ground them in reality with a kid, it kind of backfire, Like the characters don't It's not that they don't need it, but it doesn't.

But it doesn't add anything to their their character kind of chemistry and the story. It doesn't add anything to the story overall. That's for sure, it just adds about thirty minutes to this movie that it kind of doesn't need. I kind of thought that if it adds anything, it adds the you know, these two are bad asses, but it adds that they there's something to fight for that's more than just their country. You know.

It adds that layer of like a dad, a mom, right, and it hits different and you know they find the kid in that it's got like the bomb strapped to himself and like he kind of has like dad emotions to go protect him. And so it was okay and that respect. But I do agree that that first part of the movie, as I said before, once they got that done, the movie really kicked ass because that part was just just building some preface. I think that we could have lived with or without. I mean again, I don't.

I don't think it adds enough to justify its existence. I think you could have had half of his long a time and just you know, again, like I don't need to see him kicking the wolves asses. I think that was a little too much. That's like a ten minute scene. But I did again, like the kid wasn't terrible, Like he wasn't this precocious little shit like the way so many kids in movies are because kids aren't like that in real life, but they tend to be written that way by adults constantly.

Is like the most annoying character on screen is a child, and it's unfair in a lot of ways because like, kids aren't, by definition or existence all annoying, most aren't, but kids in movies tend to be written a certain way every time, and he's not written that way. I don't think. I no, I agree. I will say a part that was a little even I would say more necessary than establishing that they have a family. It was the uh like anniversary celebration, the whole like painting here mural in this My God, it was so good.

It was so good. It was the It was the best kind of musical number in an Indian cinema movie. It is the one that is like the hardest to put into a into the into the movie. And it makes sense because they because like it should have just been like we've seen before in a lot of other movies that are Indian cinema, be it Bollywood or Tollywood. They they essentially suspend the reality of the movie for a moment.

Yeah, it just exists kind of in this otherness of the again, like the only way to describe it is it exists in the otherness of Indian cinema, which is so unique with these kinds of things, and that like here it just kind of feels dorky because they're trying to pass it off as are all happening. And at one point he literally throws the can of paint onto the snow and he paints her picture in the paint snow with like a hockey stick, and it's just there's a lot of kind of unintentionally funny things at the beginning of this movie. That is one of them. And then the other thing is when Salmon Khan is fighting the wolves. It's CGI wolves and he has and his son's like, you know, if you're the real tiger, you won't kill these wolves.

He's like cocking, okay, kid, So he grabs a stick and it's just him waving a stick at CGI wolves for like ten seconds. And again, Salmon Khan is a great actor, so he totally makes it work. But my god, don't linger on it that long because after a while he like a dingis Yeah, But it's just that that musical number was unnecessary, do you say the least. Yeah, No, there was a lot of candles in the road. I don't know if you sett all those up.

Look, I mean, we've seen it before in Indian cinema and we'll see it again. That's why I love it. That's why you're that's why you're becoming a fan of it is because of things like this. But it doesn't always work. It just doesn't Like, it can't always work.

You know. I watched another movie with Heather Mahakal, which was the Indian response to Nightmare on Elm Street. And in that film, the musical numbers really don't work, and they really are. But here's the thing, Like they could have worked. They totally could have if they had had the monster sing or again, like, there are plenty of ways to make it work, but they didn't.

They just kind of went the easy route. In this movie. The first thirty minutes feels kind of like the easy route because like the like the second and third act of this movie are tonally consistent with one another, and the first act is so different. And again, it's not that it couldn't have worked by being different, it's that this doesn't work because it's not particularly entertaining, it's particularly interesting, and it kind of feels a little weird again, like it's just like strange, like the musical numbers kind of strange. And then like he's like, well, we we're just been telling you where we are this whole time, as like wait, like that what I think, you know, as kind of corny, the first one was, you know, it had way more corny moments throughout, and I think that that first thirty minutes offers as a transition period, transition from the first one that was kind of silly and action y into one that was not like once you give in this act two and three, I mean, it was just kind of a kick ass action flick, right.

I think, let me put it this way, I think the transition worked better in the first movie from kind of fun, sitcoming nonsense to an action movie because they do the same thing here. The first act in the first movie is very much the first act in this movie. It's aren't they cute together? It's to me cute Like here, it's like they're a cute family and she and she wants her son to be more Pakistani and he wants his son to be more Indian like that's cute, and I like that, but it goes on for too long, and I think that's the issue. Again, it's not bad that they added it to the movie.

It's just it's not as interesting as I think they thought it was going to be, and it takes up too much time, because, like you said, everything else in this movie is really compelling. Sajah Delafruz as Abu Usman is really good. He reminded me a lot of and again I think it's an unfair comparison, but it's something that I think a lot of people could at least understand. He has in some scenes Alan Rickman in die Hard VI, where he's like this pompous asshole because his entire character is not necessarily what he seems. He's very inspired by Osama bin Laden, Like yeah, like he's a Western educated was in America, was a teacher, and he like he was stopped on nine to eleven and he Sanaguatanamo Bay and it's like all it's he is the amalgamation of all of America's worst crimes against the rest of the world in our war on terror.

I mean, he's I mean again, like, what's the easiest way to make a terrorist, right, just go and bully people in another country and kill them with drones. I mean, that's what our country did, and even they have that in this movie. They have the character of Hassan, the little boy whose family was killed by a drone strike. Again like they're they're I really love this movie's take on the United States. It cracks me up.

Yes, it's very like they are a bunch of fucking bastards, which yeah, like, yeah, you're not wrong. Yeah, the movie kind of painted the US military is just assholes and don't give it a crap about anybody else. And then they look like there's the point where they were kind of like with uh Zoya on that mission to distract and they're like all right, we're done, we're out, and it's like, hey, hey, wait, I need you guys for another minute. We're out of here, or we're done. We did the act, We did the exact bare minimum that was asked of us.

We fulfilled our fifteen minutes. Goodbye, Right, And then you have like terrorists showing up to sell oil to the Americans and then they try to just blow him up, like again, I mean, yeah, he's a terrorist, sost he came in as a businessman and left a terrorists. Yeah, what do we do to terrorists? Oh? My god.

Paresh Rawal as Ferdos, the undercover raw agent, I think is probably my favorite part of this entire movie. He is so much fun and I think again, like he is where a lot of the twists and turns of the movie come from, because you don't know who he's with until it's made more or less readily apparent, and he essentially has to come out and say it because he has a gun point at his head. But I had not seen him in anything else, but I really liked him in this movie. Yeah, he was fun. He was a good character.

He walked away with the movie. In the scenes that he's in. It was kind of a caricature almost because he was so over the top, but it worked because he you know, they kind of portrayate him as his car salesmany fast talking type of guy, and he's just in everybody's pocket and playing all sides. But I guess he is a raw agent. I mean again, like he best we can tell he ends up coming clean.

He's like, well, I tututar, I'm i'm I'm in with you guys. I am ultimately like the head your head kind of contact here, I mean again, like it's a little bit of a stretch, but it's this spy movie thing that I don't think they can they can help doing, and I like it because it works here sometimes it feels like sometimes it feels like it doesn't work because they have to have the character do things that the character would not do, and this movie explains it away where they're like, Shanoi said to scare the shit out of you. So if you guys break, now at least you're not breaking at the hospital. Like I appreciate that. That's kind of them explaining why he was doing what he was doing, because otherwise they're just YadA YadA.

It's like, don't you know, oh, now that there's a twist, don't for you know, don't remember that he acted so weird for like half the movie anyways, Like it literally acted in a way that even if that even if he is a double agent, he wouldn't do that to you because that would be actively negatively affecting you. Like that's where twists don't land is when it's like the character acted one way the entire movie, and now you expect me to believe that they're not that way, even though all the things they did are so negative to what's going on that it's like you might as well be a bad it doesn't matter if you're a double agent. And I also like the take on just like the whole situation, you know, talking about how the US military was portrayed.

And I'm not saying it's incorrect or undeserved frankly, right, I mean, we're not going to throw the military under the bus, but like they they do in this movie. Yeah, but like the overall feel of the effort is humanity, Like that's what it's kind of all about. Doesn't matter, And you mentioned it too, like the kid who had family killed from drones. I think it's cool that this humanitarian look from the movie. It kind of focuses on aspects of these pockets in the world that have these terrorist groups and how they impact other countries and communities and stuff, because like movies, US movies aren't really taking the time to share that part of it.

Why because we're the ones sending the drones. You know, we're not going to talk about the kid whose family got killed by our drones. So I thought it was kind of cool that they took the time to id been away tell some stories about the impact of that. You've got the kid, You've got those women that were forced to like clean the floors and basically do the bidding of the men than the city council, and you know, they're just women captured by this terrorist group. Meanwhile, happens like in real life the movie.

The movie doesn't sugar The movie doesn't sugarcoat it either. No, no, Like I just I just really appreciated that it kind of talked about the dirty side of all this well, and you know, using a real life event as kind of the framing device I think is interesting because the I mean again, this setup is good. You've got these terrorists at this hospital and they've kind of taken over, and you're you know, they have these nurses hostage, and they don't they're not gonna let them go, so of course they need to get them in there, but they can't just get in there, so they have to fake injuries at the oil refinery nearby to be brought to the hospital to then do the mission from inside the hospital as these oil workers.

I think the movie goes through some interesting plot beats that feel fresh and front. Yeah, the hell of a play in right, and it wasn't flawless, which I appreciate too, right, and we get the good, you know, putting the team together scene that we do get that. So there's a little bit of a not like a heist movie feel, but it's it's not just yeah, it's not just Tiger and Zoya in this movie. It's Tiger and Zoya and a brar from the first movie played by kab cha Hal who is in the third movie, but he's one of the people that's trying to track them down at the airport in Cuba in the first movie, and it's chasing after them in the car. And I mean there's there's a fair amount of like again, like interesting side characters like Nummit and Rakesh, who are agents that Tiger brings with him.

I mean, again, like the movie is in a lot of ways. The second and third act are exactly what I wanted from this movie, because it takes the first story and says, all right, you've seen a movie where it's the two of them against the world. Now let's see what happens when they come in with their own teams and they have this bigger threat. That's bigger than just Zoya and Tiger, and it's so big that they have to bring other people in. And I appreciate that about a movie like this, because again, could have just been the two of them waltzing in there whoopen asked for an hour like the nothing stopping the film writers from doing that, because again, like, these characters are bigger than life and their superheroes essentially, so it could have worked.

Yeah, and I like the whole India Pakistan team up thing too, Like I thought that was cool. I have Well, I appreciate that. You know, yash Raj films, which are the subject of The Romantics on Netflix, the documentary, they are seemingly committed to helping continue to bridge the divide between India and Pakistan and as you know, third party outsiders. Again I don't It's not that I don't have a dog in the fight. I have friends that are Pakistani.

I have friends that are Indian. I have friends that are North Indian and South Indian. I have friends from South Asia. It just to say that, so I have friends from all over the world, and I have friends from that part of the world from both sides of the quote lie they get along just like people in that area of the world get along all the time. It's just a matter of a line on the ground in a lot of ways.

And I like that. There's a scene in this movie where they talk about where they have kind of the ISI and the raw agents and they're like, we have to work together, and it's like, yeah, you have to work together, and if we had been working together this whole time, maybe could have actually gotten something done as opposed to worrying about what the other one is doing. I appreciate that the movie is willing to say that because they said it in the last movie, and they kind of set it in Patan as well, like again like and they're probably gonna say it in Tiger three. And I'm glad that why r F Films is committed to spreading I think a positive message of bridging the you know, ethnic and cultural divide between two countries that have so much in common.

Obviously, I mean again, yeah, it's echoed a few times about and then some kind of bridges their gap in the movie is you know, it's it's shumanitarian. It's where we've got a common enemy and it's people that are killing people like we can work together and stop it or we can each other. So yeah, I kind of like that whole message throughout well, and ultimately you have a second and third act that feels fuller than it would have if it had just been Tiger because obviously you know this. I think this movie and this series really only works at this point where it's Zoya and Tiger on a mission together, because I'm not saying that Salmon Khan and Katrina Kaff couldn't do it on their own. We do see scenes of them being bad ass separately in this movie, but it's because you know that your promise that they're going to kick ass together and be good in a scene together.

And I was kind of disappointed that the third act of this movie, you know, had Katrina Kaff kind of taken out of the mix and put away for a while. I wasn't a huge fan of that. Oh when she was captured. Yeah, the damsel in distress thing, I mean, I get it, it ups the stakes, but it kind of feels unnecessary. She's such a bad ass, like, it's just hard to take it seriously because she's out of commission for essentially the third act.

Yeah you heard this see her, which is a shame because like again, she is as much a part of this movie as Salmon Kan. She is there from essentially the second scene of the movie. You know, it's his scene with his son with their son, and then it's them, all three of them, So again like that, you know, that's it's a minor complaint, but it's a valid one, I feel, because the third act of the third movie had the two of them together running away from you know, Isi and Raw and that was really fun. Yeah, well I got it pretty excited. Which she showed up in the car to save Tiger, like watch it.

I was like, oh, well, yeah, here she is. I knew she was coming. Well and it's again like you like you said, like you know she's gonna be in the second and third act of this movie. It and I find it hard to believe she wouldn't have told him she was coming, like like right, like again, like it's they make some weird choices like this movie kind of in the text, right well, it's like the movie kind of there's part of it that kind of feels like it stands alone from the last movie kind of like a less a sequel and more kind of like a soft reboot because again, she shows up out of the blue, perfect timing minds you Ghostbusters after Lifestyle, where she's just there in the nick of time to stop someone from killing him.

It's like, it would have been nice if you have gotten here thirty seconds earlier. But yeah, well again, like they never have the scene where the character shows up and they're dead already. I mean, we've seen it, but it's not it's not very frequent. It's like, uh, like Samuel L. Jackson and tarn Edgerton's scene where it's like it already happened, you know whatever.

And there's other movies where it's like you you're too late, But rarely do these movies do that. It's like it's never, You're never too late, and I don't. It's it's a little contrived because they she would have just been like, I'm coming with you, like she had to find a sitter, but the way the characters were in the first movie, she would not have just let him go by himself. Yeah yeah, again, Like it feels a little bit like a soft reboot because the character doesn't necessarily act the same way. At least she and him don't necessarily interact the same way.

They didn't last And you know, I mean ultimately that makes sense. But also this feels like such a different kind of movie than the last one. The last movie felt very born, and this feels very like Zero Dark thirty in a way. Yeah. Yeah, And I don't know it's zero dark thirty with Like I said before that we see a lot of the planning that went in and they show how the planes executed.

Like I really like that, like the playbook of it. It's like a heist movie of it. Yeah, I like that, like the way they did it in More and military strategy versus Yeah, try to steal something. They're just trying to rescue people. I just you know, I don't I don't think it's I don't think it's bad.

I mean again, like bad. I think it's such a kind of a not useful word in a lot of ways when it comes to like cinema, This movie is bad, Like what fuck does that mean? I just don't think it works very well to have a movie where you have two very big personality characters who were very well defined in your last movie start acting against type and against the way their character. If he goes I'm leaving, she's going I'm going to and we're gonna stick our kid with somebody like that. It's just hard for me to believe otherwise because again, the way the characters are written at the end of the last movie, they're like they're ride or die, and you're telling me she's just gonna like sit at home in Switzerland.

Like, I find it hard to believe. And again her showing up saves his life. It is you know, you kind of smirked at me when I said it a minute ago. But it is hard to find a sitter in short notice. That's what it is.

Tiger's into high. Yes, he's alive and he needs a sitter. They could have had watch the kid with his like with his oxygen tank. Yeah, that would have been kind of an addition to some silliness into the movie. Like they'd cut to Shenoy like trying to be all serious about something and like scolding their kid, and I mean that could have worked.

Yeah, that would have been some light comedy. Yeah, I don't. I don't know how the the Amir bogged Wadi character bog Dowie character works, but played by Sally Yusuf feels a little unnecessary. Number two. Yeah, he feels little unnecessary, only because we don't like, we don't get like a sense of what his character's point is.

Like he he's the number two, but he's not intimidating. He's just another businessman. And in a lot of ways, okay, and in a lot of ways, Sajah Delafruz's character is just like Alan Rickman in Diehard. He's not a physical threat. He's a threat because he has a gun, and you don't like that's why he's a threat, Like I mean again, like you know, and and Amir bog Dowie is kind of the same way.

He's just a dude. He's not a threat to you unless he has a gun, which is proven by the point that Katrina caf literally walks into a room and kills him in two seconds. Again, they had to build him up as such a threat and a villain and a nasty guy because again he's like kidnapping and sexual assaulting women and he's doing it with relatively want and abandon like they have to make him terrible essentially off screen because there's nothing really intimidating about him, and he kind of feels like an afterthought. It kind of it doesn't like how he factors into the plot doesn't really. They kind of don't ever expound upon it.

They're like, he's his number two, Okay, to what end? For what reason? Why? Again? Like he sells oil and makes money and that makes him a terrorist, I guess, like or he is just a terrorist who sells money, like a movie can't decide, Well, I mean, terror organization has to make money, you know, So it's it's highlighting the hierarchy of an organization like that, But it could have been better established what his job was doing in regards to what's going on in the movie, because they know something is going on.

They know people are trying to get to these nurses and stop them because he you know, Abu Usman is very suspicious of Tiger the moment he's there, and they essentially know something going on the whole it almost feels like they know something's going on, they're letting it happen. I mean, I know that's not the case. But he's suspicious of him immediately because he's Indiant. They're like, wow, you're Indian, what are you doing here? And even that he had eyes like a tiger right like and a mere bug.

Dowy's character like he's you're not really given that scene. You're given the scene of like again, people talking about him and then Ferdos saving him, but you don't really get a sense of who his character is, and then he's just killed. And there was an opportunity there to give this character something to do more than just kind of look intimidating and explained in dialogue off screen while staring at him, because that's literally what most of it is, and he does just kind of pop up like there is oh, there he is, there he is because again, like you do need to have a secondary villain for one of the other characters to kill. I mean, it only makes sense you have Katrina Keff with someone and Salmon Khan with someone, and they do that.

They have Katrina Keff kill the character of Bob Dowie. So again, they just didn't establish him as much of a character, which is a shame because they spend time in other parts of this movie that don't pay off. There was time if they take away half of the opening segment to give our villain that's the secondary villain, a little bit more of a backstory, a little bit more of a reason for him to be on the chopping block as a threat because he doesn't feel like a threat. He just feels like again, like a guy, a terrorist in a suit. His dudes are more intimidating than he is.

That one like roid raged guy. Oh yeah, that dude was wild. Yeah. Just hey, I'm gonna stupid bitch bang just like fuck fucking shit, good guy. Like that is more kind of in line with what I'm talking about, where it's like this character's written in such a big way.

I get it, Like, I get what you're going for. I understand what this character is like. Can't expect me to get that by just showing me, Oh, he's a he's a rich oil guy. Draw your own conclusions. Yeah, that other thug you're talking about, he kind of matches Tiger's energy when they fight, like they're kind of the uh what is it?

The is C is that they're cult. Yeah, supposed to be I supposed to be isole. Yeah, he's kind of the U is C. Tiger kind of gets killed unceremoniously though a lot earlier than I thought he was going to check out from the movie the drop, the fall from the building, right, well, then Tiger breaks his neck. He's just like on the ground and Tiger breaks Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Yeah, I kind of just dies unceremoniously like any other goon would. And it was again like they kept kind of highlighting that character and then he just by it was it was it was a little strange. I get like maybe we've just been spoiled by movies like Bahubali where they give a character a little bit of time to grow, but they did in the first movie. I mean, again, the problem I think is the first movie, we didn't have a villain quote unquote, and this is the first time that the writers are having to write a villain for the Tiger movies because again in the first movie, it's oh, it's the world that's the villain, not the you know, not a quote specific character like ab Usman or Ferdos at least through the first you know, at least the second act.

And I just think that's probably the failing of this because we know that we're gonna see villains that are compelling later in the YRF spy films. I mean, Jesus Christ Jim in Patan is like he was an interesting character and you fell for him and felt for him as a character because he had an interesting backstory that was established in one scene. Yeah, so, like they took half the movie. I mean I watched Enthern two point zero. They spend an entire act of that movie fleshing out the villain, and he ends up becoming the best part of that movie because they gave him an interesting backstory, and then the rest of the movie is just them trying to force him into another movie.

This movie feels, in a lot of ways kind of the same. It feels like a different movie and then Tiger and Zoya show up. It's like the walk from another movie, and like it's it's again. It works in spite of that, honestly, like it really works in spite of the fact that this movie is kind of tonally at odds with itself. I didn't dislike this movie.

I like this movie a fair amount, but it doesn't feel like a Tiger movie, because a Tiger movie felt a little bit more tonally unique, Like this movie feels very much like an in action movie. Yeah. Yeah, it lost some of the some of the secret sauce that the first one had. I guess you could say, well, that's a little bit of the heart that the first movie had because Tiger and Zoya were together most of that movie. I think the mistake in this movie was the two of them being separated for so long.

So I was saying, like, the characters act atypical because there's no way they wouldn't have gone on this mission together, and they knew that there were Pakistani nurses too. It could have been as easy as like, well, Pakistan's best agent is missing, India's best agent is missing. They're both missing together and we need both of them now more than ever. Cut to them lying naked, We're on a beach, and all of a sudden, SHNOI shows up standing above them, going I need you, and then they're they're ministered. The Pakistani one is in we need you.

There you go. You could see that, and that makes more sense and leaves more time for the actual building of the movie and the conflict, because it feels like the movie takes a half an hour. D two or two. The beautiful mountains in Switzerland. Yeah, and then he's got quite a place up in the mountains too.

Boy does it good? God. I thought he was getting paid like a couple hundred thousand dollars a year, which ended up like a couple million. Nut a couple million a year ended up into a couple hundred million. That's like like where they're living is like again, like it feels just like it's out of a different movie, like even even against the first movies kind of suburban setting, like this movie's trying to replicate that, and it feels just very weird when it does.

I g. It's not because the characters love Tiger and Zoya aren't believable as parents. They totally are when he's interacting with his like it's very cute, and Salmon Khan is believable in a way that Schwarzenegger isn't in Commando because again, like you have to have a character who is hard enough to be a badass but soft enough to raise a kid, and I think Salmon Kan embodies that. It's a vulnerability, you know, physique. I mean he is like a Sylvester Stillone type, yeah, you know, and he can kind of do an action maybe like a Sylvester Stillone, but he's got that site that you just mentioned that a lot of those actors can't pull off, but Stallone can Stillone can I guess I meant when you were saying Schwarzenegger, but I mean again, like what's funny is Stallone can and like I think people forget that because he is kind of associated with Schwarzenegger and Van Dam and Lundrin.

And I mean again, not that those guys can't do the dramatic thing. I think they all have in various forms, but I think it's not their main thing. And I think they would admit that that's something that they do for whatever reason, break up the monotony, something else, what have you. But they made their bones in the action, and people forget that. Stallone really didn't.

Like he was rocky before he was why he was Italian porn star but softcore porn star. But he was rocky before he was Rambo, Like again, like that he got his start in a much different direction. His perception now is like you know all of that, and that's his perception now. But he was a that was a serious role. He was nominated directed that movie, if I'm not mistaken, or at least wrote it.

So I mean Stallone has dramatic chops. I think people forget that. But to your point, like salmon Kan has that energy, I don't want to compare him to Stallone because against comparing salmon Kan just thelone is to diminish salmon CON's acting abilities, because salmon Con is a better Salmonkan is a better actor than his what his American contemporaries would be. But that's the case for a lot of these Indian actors, because they're venerated like gods. And I'll say it again, say it every episode, I'll beat it into the audience.

At some point I'll have to stop saying it. But he's amazing as always. He's so good. Yeah, he's fun to watch. Yeah, he's a genuinely fun act and it's easy to watch, like it's and I say that because there are subtitles on there, and like it doesn't matter, right, because he's still portraying the character and evoking a feeling and like you still get it well.

And again, when you pair him up with someone like Katrina kaff who I think is also as charismatic as he is, you really get a winning combination. I mean, it is like their what fifth movie together? I think I think the last movie together was Ek the Tiger and that was their fourth. It's like the fifth movie together. Jesus Christ.

There's a reason they keep casting these two actors opposite. So the reason we're getting another one of these movies in twenty twenty three. Like, it's not a surprise. It shouldn't come as a surprised to anybody that this movie came out in twenty seventeen. The action movie landscape has changed dramatically in the world, let alone India.

Like this movie feels very pedestrian, and to Paton, like such such a pedestrian movie comparatively, it's it's it's such a quiet movie in the way that Baton is not. But that's the intent of a movie like Patan. It's like to make it look like the scene with salmonkan Is Tiger is the most recent thing we've seen of him as Tiger, other than the trailer for the Tiger three. But Tiger three, whatever the name of that movie be, it's gonna be Tiger something. Tiger is here, Tiger is back, Tiger paints a fucking picture out in the woods, who knows.

But the character that he portrays in Patan is the same. It's kind of not even the same character that is in this boot. Yeah, it's it's it's more in line with the tone of Paton's version of what Tiger would be, right because like he's he's he's a little smartmire in Patan than he is in this movie or the last movie. Yeah, this movie, he's quite serious. Yeah, like throughout like there.

I mean, he does bring a lot little bit of levity to it and a little bit of just genuine comedy because Salman Khan, I think is a funny just a genuinely probably funny person who has good comedic timing. But yeah, he's not doing the whoa that he was last movie, which I don't think is needed here obviously, but I don't know it added a little bit of depth is performance in the last movie that I think again, if he had been around Katrina cafmore, I think we would have seen more depth to the role in this movie. He feels more like a part in this movie, less the folk the focus almost again, it feels like the stuff in the It feels like the main character of the movie in a lot of ways. Is that nurse in the hospital.

Yeah, yeah, I will say, you know, the scarf. When we saw it in Paton, scarf, like we immediately knew that was a thing, the defining element of Tiger And yeah, okay, we saw it in the first one down this one. Not only is he always wearing it and people on his team are wearing it, but he actually has a fight scene with one. Well, and then in Baton they use that's right, yeah, yeah, because he's us He's he throwing it at people in that one, I think, or something to that effect. So I think that's kind of funny that even though this movie didn't have the same kind of silly tone that the first one did, like the fact that he starts beating people up with a scarf.

I was like, that's funny. There we go. Well, I mean again, like that's the character that I expect him to be, because that was my expectation for the first movie. This movie's stakes are just so much higher and so much more serious. It just if this movie feels a lot more serious in the last one, And it's not a bad thing.

I'm not complaining that. You know, movies shouldn't be serious, but I think you should try to stay tonally consistent, because it's not like the tone of the first movie didn't work, and it's not like the tone of the first movie would work any less with the tone of something like Paton than this one. This feels more at odds with what Paton is than the first. First movie felt a little less grounded in reality somehow, even though it's inspiration is born identity. This movie tries to be like this is real because again it's based off of a real thing, so it help but be like true, Oh, I'm gonna shoot this I mean again, like the scene where he's like, I'm gonna shoot this woman that tried to escape.

It'll make you a better person, like that felt so Hans Gruber mustache twirling, bad guy like and then he just does these like essentially long soliloquies too, Like that feels like it should have been played more bombastically, because that's the thing about Diehard. Diehart's not a serious movie. Diehart's fun. This movie it tries, it's like it's trying to be serious, but it doesn't want to be serious. But yet in the first act you've got like women being shot in the head point blank and just like all sorts of like and again like women being talked about them being sexually assaulted and stuff.

But it's like that that's not the tone of these movies. Yeah, at least it wasn't the tone of the first one. And it just it feels kind of like the characters of Tiger and Zoya have to adapt to the situation of this movie less this is a movie that they should have been in or was being written for them. I appreciate that this is taken from real life, but I'm not sure that that's a I'm not sure that that's like a benefit fit here. I'm not sure that the movie benefits from, you know, riffing on real life events.

I mean, it's an interesting story, you know, women being captured in the hospital and somebody's got to go save them, but that ends up being like an afterthought. Well, it makes the question if Tiger three is going to continue like Tiger II with that type of tone to it, or is it gonna reset and bring back its uh the Tiger roots. Well what would you prefer? Well, given that we in Paton, we see him show up with a cup of water, right, so soap Paton can take some pills, and so you know, that's why we add the water. That's the only reason now that we both think about it, like, because it's not like a thing, Like it's not a thing in these movies.

Yeah, I was hoping to see like maybe that was thing too. Was always having water, but nope, but because that happened, like he's just you know this one and the movie we just watch they tried to land the fact or you know land. His character is this thoughtful person, caring person. Here he is and Paton being thoughtful and carrying and bringing him some water to take his pain pills. So I don't know, I think they I think in Tiger three it'll be a lot like Tiger two or Tiger sent Hi, but I'd like it to have a little more like the Tiger.

I'm with you. I mean, what I want from Tiger three is there to be more Katrina kef and Tiger on screened together in the action scene because a lot of it is just like they're kind of like family life, which again not bad but not doesn't add anything, like it is ultimately just there to give us a look into their lives, but it's just he goes on for too long and even again like the seat that the movie sings when they're together when it's the two of them, because they have great chemistry together and they look great together on screen, but the movie and the narrative is all about separating the two of them, because the narrative does not require them to be together to the point where the intention was they were not going to be together because he left without her and she stayed behind as far as he knew, until she was just there in a scene.

I want more of the two of them together because I feel like the comedy and the action flows easier with the two of them together on screen. And it did, And again that's why Et the Tiger is I think, for me, still the superior film. I think it works better than this movie. Even though this movie is a better action, I think Et the Tiger is a better movie because it tells a complete unique as it can be for telling a spy on you know, spy kind of in the wild, hiding in plain sight. I think it tells a good version of that story that's been told before.

This movie kind of just feels like I've seen it before. Yeah, yeah, And I'm not saying the other movies I've seen are better. I'm just saying that this movie doesn't feel as fun and unique as the first movie. Well, and we've said it already. What I do like, I know it's something.

The format is what we've seen before. I do like the person perspective of it because it's something that we don't get right with movies out of here, the perspective of of how we look to other countries and how it might be a terror plot or terrorist organization might be viewed through another country's lens. So that was cool, that was compelling. I thought about that a lot while watching it. I also appreciate that the only American that they interface with at the White House is clearly like Australian.

It's clearly on Australian actor to it trying to do like a very bad American accent. You have three days sheenoy like whoa man? Your rs are real hard, pal, and that's you can tell with like British. British actors always have like the herd. They're always saying, there ares really hard, want to go over there to the car, and then like Australian actress sometimes they do the same thing.

I'm actually surprised most Australian actors can do it very convincing American accent, like Guy Pierce, Chris Hemsworth, like plenty of Australian actors can do passable American accent. It's like the guy just got like a phone interview to get the part like, so he says, on your actor's resume and you can do a really good American accent. Yep, okay, should we we shoot on this day? And then he shows up and does it. They're like, uh, okay, well, let's just roll with it.

I promise I'm American. That's sure. It's just funny because it's like I'm gonna go meet with my connection in the US government. Is like, it's not even a real person who would be remotely amberror Again, like I was expecting it to be like more in line with what happens when the characters go to talk with the guy on the base. But he's like, oh, you know, like it just kind of this like kind of scoundrelly garedo.

Yeah, that guy, he's kind of like a scoundrel, kind of out for his own you know, well being and his own money in his own he's looking out for himself, right. I was expecting more of that from the White House character less a dude doing a terrible American act. Yeah. Also, I will say this is the most English I've heard in a Indian cinema movie so far. Together and holistically, there's a lot of English in this that's true, the other kind of goon with the ISC the big dude with red Beard.

That guy, yeah, guy real out of place. Let's put it that way. You like, if you were in the movie, would literally be Like. All I could think was like, let's be like a Dustin. If you've never seen Dustin, which more than likely you ever have, imagine the guy in this movie, but not as yoke because the dude in the movie's fucking yoke too.

He's like six foot five and a big ass red beard. But all I could think was, like, that's just Dustin standing there in this movie, like staring, like what them by fucking doing here? And he's just hollering at everybody in English. Yeah, well, I mean again at the character of bab Usmann is like a kid. He's like Western trained.

He speaks he he speaks English most of his line. It's not much of a threat though, because like Tiger beats his ass like a handily. I actually like that when Tiger meets the main bad guy. I actually liked that, Like it was over quick right, it makes sense, like he's not again, like he's not a threat because he's just a guy with a gun. Yeah, I like I like the way this movie wraps up, it was a nice little twist to have, you know, ferd OUs be the one who you know, oh, I need to get you out of here, and oh and then you know I just like, do you hear that whistling?

Motherfucker? Like night nighttime. I appreciate that because again, like it doesn't have to be I mean, Tiger doomed him, but Tiger ultimately wasn't the one who pulled the trigger. And I appreciated that because again, like they I'm not gonna say that the villain in this movie is sympathetic, but he I mean again, like he kind of is. He's painted with a rather broad brush and he's you know, I was tormented by the United States and I was in Guantanamo and they locked me up and threw away the key and blah blah blah.

Like get I get it. I get what they're going for. They're airing like again, here's the amalgamation of all of the sins of our country, and the US formed this monster, right, and like, like it makes sense that the threat in the movie is also the United States acting with wanton abandon right and blowing the shit out of a crits. So like it makes sense because ultimately the Americans are as much the villains in this movie as the villain that they more or less created. Yeah, but that's just that's not a Tiger movie.

That's just it doesn't feel I like to me, it feels like something else. It makes it seem like they did the first one and they're like, you know, we should do this again, but like take out the silly stuff, like you said, soft reboot. I really do think that might have been what happened, Like the vibe. Yeah, it's not a bad thing when the vibe needs to be reset, but I like the vibe the first movie was going for. I think what happened too.

And we were ok about this at the end of the last episode we did together on Eck the Tiger. Where does it go? What sequel to you? Like, you don't need a sequel here? And frankly, what would have been better?

And you know, again for me and this is just me, you know again, take the second movie out of it, because like all ultimately that comes out of the second movie is he's still on the run, but he has a kid this time, because they end up in the same place that they were at the end of the first movie at the end of the second movie, the same spot I always got two kids. Oh ray, I am sure that. I mean, that was a nice little payoff, but I can like that's not what I want to see in the next movie, So it doesn't matter, like you know what I mean, Like that's great, But like my concern is with the third movie and my hope and my want is it to be more like Aton tonally with what Salmon Kan can bring to that, because again, like you just let the actor be the character, pair him with someone who is a good foil for him, and let it run.

That's why Aton is so good, because they already knew the formula for at the Tiger and they were just building on it. I just think this movie is a little bit of a misstep because again, the stakes make sense why Tiger and Zoya are involved, but those two characters don't feel like they match up with what this movie's needing for a protagonist. It feels like this would have needed like a group of dudes put together who are going to like make good on some like like a suicide squad type thing where it's like a suicide mission, Like this is that kind of movie. Where it's like this is a suicide mission. You're trying to go and do something really dangerous that like you could die just trying to get to the thing that you're trying to do, Like there was no guarantee they ever left the oil refinery alive because they have to like try and bake burn themselves to get to the hospital like that.

I think that would have worked better as the protagonist side of the equation because that makes sense more than Salmon Khan going on this suicide mission when he has a kid and when he has Katrina Keff. Like the way they set it up is a lot more kind of I don't know, Like the stakes are very high to the point where Tiger just doesn't feel like the right kind of character for this, for this conflict. And again, like the movie, the first movie didn't have a villain, so maybe that's why it's hard for us to gauge it. And this movie did have a villain, but even then, it's not like in Patan where the villain was taunting Paton and it was like I'm gonna get you and it's me and you man, Like that's what we need with Tiger is like someone who is his equal, not someone that he could walk up and just fucking kill in two seconds.

Again, it works here because that guy had to be that kind of character. But like it need they need a character like Paton Paton's Jim who is a physical threat as well as a emotional and mental threat, because that's what Jim was. He was both and that Like, if you're gonna give us villains in these movies and give us a little bit of time with the villains, which they do in this movie, they need to be a not a mirror image of our hero, but a perverted image of our hero or the it not necessarily the inverse, but a you know it, just a mutated version like the Mirroser. Yeah, Like they need someone that is there equal, and Abu Uzman wasn't. There wasn't really a villain in the first movie.

So I'm assuming the third movie is gonna have that big villain that Salmon Khan will have to beat ass On like Paton did with Jim in Paton, Because like I say, it's the logical next progression of the formula. The second one leaves me excited for the third one, and the trailer for the third one left me excited for the third one. Yeah, these movies have been doing a pretty good job of keeping me hooked, And I think Paton did a good job of hyping me for the third movie. Because again, if if the version we see of Tiger in the in the third Tiger movie is more in line with the version we just saw, then that movie aims to be pretty good. I feel like at least it'll be entertaining.

And this movie wasn't lacking and being entertaining. I just think it was a little muddle headed when it came to the story it was trying to tell because again, it's a real again, like they can't get super crazy because it is based off of a real event. But like I just Tiger and Zoya aren't necessitated in real life event handling, like they need to handle a threat that's like a massive threat like Paton did. Like Paton was dealing with a essentially like an India wide threat, like this is like this is like again not to sound pedestrian or like a dick or anything, but it's it was forty women in a hospital. The steaks are not what Patan is, Like you said, it's a humanitarian threat.

It's not a world ending threat. So it just has different steaks, and I think that part of it works. I just don't think that Tiger and Zoya work in like a I don't know, like these these characters don't fit here, not by like much. But it is a little bit of like a force. Yeah, well, maybe it all comes together in Tiger three.

Final thoughts on Tiger's Zenda high, Well, I mean again, the I thought. I really enjoyed whole heisty espionage aspect of it. That wasn't my fa favorite part was when they're executed or planning their you know, their strategy and executing it. Like the whole mission part of the movie was great. Did I want more Zoia Yeah?

Or Tiger and Zoia Yeah, But I still accepted it, and it, like I just said, a little bit ago. Let me wanting to see what they do with Tiger three. And I'm curious if in the Spy Verse timeline, is Tiger three gonna happen before Pathon or Pathon happens before Tiger three. You know, I'm curious at how they're going to tie those two together. You know, I will echo most of what you have said.

Again, I enjoyed the movie for the most part, I don't think it's a I don't I don't think you could. You know, you could do a lot worse than this movie, but I think you could do better, which is the first movie. But this movie, if you've seen the first one, is more Tiger and more Zoia, and more of the two of them together as much as the movie gives you. And there's a lot of them separately interacting with new and interesting characters or some characters you've seen before. And there's a sweet shot of some uncon with no shirt on that is slow mo shot, and we are left to linger on that man's pex for quite some time, and all of that adds to the tone of this being an over the top, fun action I just think that for me, there are parts of this movie that clash with that and that expectation that the first movie kind of set us up for, because the second act of the second part of that movie is a pretty kind of big, bombastic action movie now with a lot of people getting killed, but with is a lot of stunts and practical stunts and practical effects, and this movie kind of has a similar feel in the second act.

But I just think that the conflict here is a little bit too serious for characters that are again superheroes effectively, So I'm with you, though I'm super excited for the third one. I can't wait to see what the spy verse yields up from here, because where we go from here is a movie that I think will satisfy us in ways that this movie maybe didn't. Because the next time we're gonna be talking about twenty nineteen's War stars Oh my god, it stars the Dreamboat Hrithique Rashan and Jackie Shroff's son, Tiger Shroff, in a movie that looks insane actively wild. So I am super excited to watch that with you and talk all about it, as I know you're excited to talk about it as well, because this has been a lot of fun.

These movies are so much fun, and I can't wait to see more about how they make the US look like douches. There's out of that empathod at all, because I really enjoy that, enjoyed that, and this maybe like egg on our face, we're dumb asses, right, We're a bunch of assholes. If any Americans watch this film, enjoy, enjoy, Wow, we're dicks. So until then, you can find Dustin and I over at Weirdingwaymedia dot com where he and I do a fair amount of these shows and Dustin stunts some album artwork for mother shows. And he Dustin's just he's he's a he's a man about town and he's he's a he's a he's a just like just just like you know, just like you expect from from two people talking about Indian cinema, two Midwesterners talking about Indian cinema.

But that's where you can find him. That's where you can find me, along with so many other shows that I work on, like the Culture Cast and scary stories we tell and all those fun things. So that's where you can find that. As for this show, Bollywood Cinema Club dot com, Social media cool if you want to, I get it. If you don't, and yeah, please by all means like rate and review the show wherever you find it, because that helps us find our audience.

That helps our audience find more awesome Indian cinema movies to check out. Because guys, it's coming. Don't be reactive. Be proactive because like two years from now or sooner than that, people are gonna be like, I really loved all these Indian cinema movies. I'm just finding and you know what, we're we're ahead of it, guys.

So Netflix is already making documentaries about it. It's true. We've are, we've been doing podcasts about it way before that. Yeah, it's true facts, folks, and we'll catch you on the next episode.