Nightdreams

H we're waiting, so Heather, this is a first. Um, this is a first for a number of reasons. This is not the first porno we've talked about, first hardcore porno we've talked about. This is the first time I can say without a doubt that if you want to watch this movie, you can go on ex Hamster and find it, because that's where I watched it. And most things I watch on ex Hamster don't have clowns using their nose to fuck people with.

And I said most things, I'm so proud of you, but not all, like there are exceptions. Yeah, of course we're clearly talking about the nineteen eighty nine classics still Magnolias, Great Martin and Daryl Hannah, Shirley McClain, Sally Field, Olivia Olivia Ducoccus, and the Baby Eater herself Googlia Roberts. She's in the next Insidious movie. I hear, wait we get to see her true for him. I love the name Olympia Ducaccus, and there's a lot of caucus on the screen, and it's like it does like a sex act.

It does. We're gonna give her the Olympia Ducacus. Mike, I would be like, girl, howarth, Like, what'd you do last nice? She's like, I got the Olumpia to Caucus and I got the Michael Ducoccus. What that's like?

It's like a Blumkin but gross and not satisfying. Oh, this is gonna this is gonna be probably the most intentionally perverse episode of the Culture Cast because on this episode we're kicking off Jess buy or July, where we're looking at surrealist films with a surrealist alt porno film from nineteen eighty one titled night Dreams, and I'm joined by Jess. Jess is not joining us, but I'm actually joined by your friend and mine. You've heard her here before, You're gonna hear her here again. You've already heard her Mondo Heather's Heather Dream.

Hello, I it is a pleasure to be here. I'm sorry that Jess is not with us. Um me too? Kind of? Was the movie too much for them?

Where they were where they were like, whoa, this is so weird surrealist even for me. We miss you, Jess, is what I'm trying to say. And we love you and me and Chris will do her best. I think we'll do great I am, I am. I am known to be quite the fan of one of the main artists behind this movie.

We'll get into that. Yeah, so that is actually one of the reasons that you're joining me on this episode is because we're going to be doing nineteen eighty one's night dreams. Night Dreams is mesmerizing. Night Dreams is dazzling. Night Dreams is outrageous.

Night Dreams is insane. Riveting. Night Dreams is hysterical before it is cold. Night Dreams is surreal. Night Dreams is outlandish.

Night Dreams is oysterious. Night Dreams is relentless, magnetic bleak. Erotic night dreams is indecent. Night Dreams is blaming. Night Dreams is steamy.

Night Dreams is disturbing. Night Dreams is monstrous. Night Dreams is mutants pain. Do you want to know what pain? Night Dreams is Panetic night dreams is sweeping.

Night Dreams is a barial. Night Dreams is mind boggling. Night Dreams is shattering. Night dreams eropic films will never be the same. Yes, I am so excited.

I and this is anybody that no like is familiar with my work, all two of you, and I love you both fiercely. Um, I know, I'm a huge fan of Stephen Satian. I'm literally working out a book about his art. And this was Steven's first free into cinema. Now he's that credit to this director.

He uh, that is credit to FX Pope, which was a pseudonym for Francis Delaia who him and Stephen were creative partners at the time and they did like like a lot of advertising work together. Um. You know, both come from Hustler, as does the writer, one of the writers, Jerry Stall. And but if you're familiar with Stephen Satien and his other work, this is pretty much unofficially officially Stephen's first film as far as I'm concerned. And um, and it's a ride.

It's a wild right, especially because a lot of times people are like ooh, adults and they they you think you hear porn and you think you know what you're getting into, um, which you don't. You don't, I mean, especially honestly with a lot of the classic era adult films. You I mean, there's a wide breath of variety, and you've had an era where there are a lot of artists that were legit trying to make interesting works of art and film that just happened to have explicit sex, which is why I think it's so fascinating. Um, and this is one, this is definitely a huge one. But I'm curious because Chris, this is your first, uh is this your first Stephen Sadian movie?

Yes? So there's no road answer. So what's what's funny is so you know, we were talking before we turned the recorder on, as we tend to do, and so so Jess is not joining us, obviously, but Jess and I were talking on Monday, uh, and I was like, hey, have you watched the movie yet? And just was like no, I don't know where to find it. And I was like, that's weird me either, And everywhere that I looked it didn't come up, and so I googled it again and I just you know, nineteen eighty one watch online ex hamster and a bunch of porn websites came up, and I was like okay, and I went and I sent the link to Jess, and Jess and I were sitting there and I was like, is there a clown fucking a woman with its nose right now?

Jess was like yeah, yeah, and I was like do you know what the fuck you picked? And Jess was like, I saw it. It looked interesting and Stephen Sadian and all that stuff, and I was like, okay, maybe it is a poor no. And so no, I hadn't seen this, And I will tell you what. I was not expecting there to be full on penetration.

I wasn't expecting it to be a poor no. I do like that. If you look for this movie and google it, it says that Kevin James is in this movie. Kevin James, actor from King of Queens, not Kevin James, the actor with a magnificently large penis who plays an angel in Heaven. So at least there's that.

But no, I long answer to a short question, No, I've never seen any of his anything, including Cafe Flesh, which I know you're a huge fan of. I mean, well, I mean he's I absolutely am. I'm a huge fan of all of him, Stephen's work. He's uh, he is one of our best autours. I think they've come out of this country and he um.

The thing about Stephen that I love is he has such a singularly unique visual thumb print and approach to film um and it's funny because like and I, you know, I never think of his stuff as porn per se to be honest, because um, and I don't think there's anything wrong with with porn, with pornography, agree, Like, so let me get that out so I'm not one of those stobs. It's like, hey, porn, Yeah, there's nothing wrong. There's nothing wrong with pornography. Um, but actually here's a bigger problem if you're not into porn, Like, how do you how do you get your kicks? Like, well, most people that say they don't like it are probably the ones downloading illegally the most not paying for their porn.

You naughty, naughty people. You're gonna support these, support these sex workers. Okay, ethic, I'm not judging, we've all done it. But I'm just saying, if you can, if you're in a place to try and pay for your pornarcho, I like, I like how, I like how the I have the strongness of the of the statement got a little less. If you can make time, if you can afford it, if you just chrick off.

I mean, we're all we're all, we're all adults here. No, you want to be you want to I do want to keep it real. Okay, I'm want with you. I'm with you, I'm with you. But I will say I own a physical copy of Night Dreams, so that's fair.

Yeah, now granted the DVD cover. Um, we'll get I'll write more about how this film got released later, but um on DVD. But um but no. But by my point is like with Stephen, to me, like the main thing is never the sex itself, like the way that sex is intrigrated and sexuality is part of his landscape, which I find really so fascinating, like he really is it. To me, it's almost like a painter that you know, it's like they'll have a graphic image, but it's it's a layer right with other layers, and you know.

And um, and the history of explicit like sex being used in art um goes back. I mean obviously they're like to the cave Man days, like great cave art I mean, but also like I mean, I find it interesting that what gets coraled pornography and what doesn't in this country. Um, because like you'll have a painter, I mean, people like Picasso, uh in nice used and they have explicit sex and their paintings, but nobody calls them pornographers. But if you're making something that is aimed at a working class audience in America, that's porn. Like I've always felt like it's a little classes a little bit, you know what I mean, Like some things.

Yeah, and it's like especially because people are like, oh, it can't be art. It's porn. Anything to be art. It's done a certain way and it's approached a certain way. Um, you know, it's like, oh, that's just done for money.

Well so is a lot of Hollywood products. People enjoy it. There's nothing wrong with them enjoying it. So why you know what I mean, like as a whoreror for something like I don't know, Like I have a hard time getting I guess and not animated, but getting into arguments with people that want to denigrate porn because that anyone feeling like that's where they're coming from anymore, if it's not religious, I'll be impressed, you know what I mean? Like I feel like anymore, like if you if you don't even concede the benefit of something like pornography, it must be on religious grounds because or or you're a former pornographic actress or worker who had a bad experience because like overwhelmingly having access to these kind of things is beneficial and employs people.

Like you said, people who want to have sex for a living can go and have sex for a living and it not be criminalized the way sex work is, which is fucking horse shit in and of itself. Yeah, I agree, agree, I mean, it's consenting adults, Like if you don't, if it's not your thing, that's fine, that's understandable. Don't buy it, don't seek it out. It's easy. Nobody's forcing you to.

Look at the banking look at this, Look at this sex. It's dirty, dirty sex, Eddie. I mean, it's like you know, I'm not saying people should ban Forrest Gump. Well I'm saying I mean, but I don't want. I don't want your filthy lifestyle of Tom Hanks with a bad Southern accent in my face.

It's fair Hollywood. But but no, but I'm excited this. This was like your first like I feel like your first Stephen Stadium film. No matter what it is like, this is again, this is the beauty of Stephen is an experience you will never forget. Whether you love it.

Most people love it. Some people are like what the fuck? But either way it marks you, and I love that. My favorite artist in life are the ones that kind of mark you for life, like you're a changed person. And to me, the art at its most potent is transformative.

And I'm still very I have I want to interview Jess though about how they picked this and didn't know it was adult, because you literally could go on IMDb and the first thing you see is X you could wake you this and it says adult. Phil like it literally, it's not. This is not hidden differentation. Sometimes it's just you know, we're gonna watch something and this is the suggestion and I want to go into it cold. And the other time you're scrubbing through to make sure it's the right thing, and there's just a ten inch erect dick on screen and you're just like, oh, okay, this is a porno Jess, what the fuck?

Oh what the fuck? Or it has pornographic elements, because that's the thing. This is more akin to like an episode of the Twilight Zone really, or like a horror movie, because the setup is you have a woman in a room being sexually stimulated via a crown of electrodes, being watched by two people in a room while she does it. That's the setup with this entire your movie, or is it. I mean that's the thing.

That's the thing, right right, there's there's so much yeah, I mean, and and you have this classics like housewife character, Missus van Houghton, played wonderfully by Dorothy Lamayum who I feel like it was more of a cult adult film star, like she was never quite as big as say like a Maryland Chambers or a Saka. But she's great. She's great. She's probably best known for being uh belip, she's in taboo. But um, but she for me is of course Missus van Hatton.

I think she's phenomenal here. Um. And yeah, you think about it when you think of classics sort of like erotica situations, the horny housewife, right right, oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it's so. But this film is kind of a little bit of a flip on that because you know, with some of the dialogue and you know, and this again you're getting the gift of dialogue written by Jerry Stall, who you know is now like a huge famous, you know, novelist of course wrote episod out of CSI um alf as well. I port Jerry la I mean, he never this is the shumway Gordon.

Really you like to eat cats, there's nothing wrong with that, and he's quite sexy. Was that too far? I if this weren't the vision, if this weren't the audio medium that it is, folks, you could have seen Heather's face and enjoyed it just like I did. I I live, I lived to please. Um now um so does that for that matter too much?

That's why he's canceled. That's why he's got that big nose with all those ridges on it. Alic, he's he's canceled. He's out. He's out in Rikers with Harvey Weinstein and Epstein's ghost Alf but uh but no, but I mean but your your assault, um great?

And of course Steven, And that's that's the thing. These two guys like are so funny and intelligent and just whip smart and will throw I mean third dialogue and just like you know, she's like you know, this whole repetition of I know you're watching me, and just also her kind of talking like basically about you know, how the doctors and maybe society at large are just assuming things about her. It's like, you know, you think about a woman of that position, in that position, or anybody in that position where you're not really given a lot of autonomy, you're not given value. You're just a trophe, right, you know that doesn't have desires. And and also but like the way that each you know, each of her little like sexual fantasies are explored.

You're almost kind of going through sort of this very like Dante's Inferno, through purgatory, through Inferno literally cigatively too, with her it and her fears to you as well as her desires, like it's so smart and the and at b ramiss to mention the doctors, um, the male doctors. Andy Nichols who like very underrated actor. He's in flesh as Max Melo dramatic, the MC of the Titular Club, and he is if you saw it both of these maybes back to Beck, you'd almost wouldn't think it's the same guy, Like he's that good of actor, like any Nichols should should be talked about way more phenomenal phenomenal presence. Uh so, But yeah, but you're you're alerted. We have to bring up the first scene because you keep talking about it now.

It sets the stage in a good way, like again like all of my job. I mean, I look, let's let's just be real here. Look, I like so many other people, and I'm not going to make assumptions here. I don't think sex is a big deal, Like I don't understand life. It's a lot.

I go further than that, So I would even go as far as to say, like I don't understand why you can't just be like, let's just go bang and then let's go get a hamburger, like you know what I mean, Like as far as I'm concerned, like the the vilification and mystification and kind of oh all kinds a heinous a vacation even like making it so taboo, Like I just disagree with that, Like I don't see what there is to get so animated about in like a really angry way, Like it's it's just fun. You're supposed to have a good time, and then if you want to ascribe more to it, that's going to come from you and the other person there, because you can't just have a one sided relationship, even if it is an immensely close and intimate one.

So like that's the thing, Like I for all the jokes aside and kind of the glibness aside, like I'm pretty progressive, very progressive, because I don't I just I don't see it the way a lot of others, especially as like a married person. Even I don't even see it that way, which is a problem for me, you know, mentally, But at the same time, like it's a societal thing, like society vilifies porn. I mean, it vilifies everything. Some things need to be vilified. But the fact that my wife and I can't walk down the street and I have my shirt off because I fucking want to get a tan and she can't have hers off too, It's like who cares, Like I it's a my nipples or my nipples or nipples just like my wife's nipples, which is if someone soundboards that, fucking thank you.

Um. But I just I don't get it. So like glibness aside, like I'm glad we're talking about something like this, but yes, let's talk about clowns and and jack in the boxes well before we get to the when we get to that, no, I think I agree with you wholeheartedly. And that's that's one of the reasons why as a as a culture writer and a film writer for years I have always like tried to bring certain films up, not because they have you know, because like oh loose adult films. I'm like, no, this is a good movie.

This is a great piece of art, like just because it has you know, the naked body in it. First of all. You know, most great artists made for adults, whether it has sex in it or not. You know, um, if you're watching I don't know, like a Kurasawa film, that film isn't made for children, right, there's nothing in it. A Kia Kurosaw film that's like you know, explicit sacks or even like super gratuitous science as far as being like super goring or whatever.

But of course most people don't have a problem with the children saying violence, which is kind of fucked. But Indiana Jones is made for adults. What are you talking about, so children's toys with a guy with a gun and a whip? Yeah, I mean it's no. It's the the attitude that our culture in our country has towards sex and the human body in general is is to me very default, It's very unhealthy, and it's just it's created just generations people that have like issues that are unhappy with themselves.

I have people that are so uncomfortable with who they are that they feel like they have to oppress others and their rights because they're not comfortable that somebody happens to be gay or polyamorous, or trons or lesbian or you know, or even just public displays of affection. Some people are not repressed for it could be even just an a our couple just you know, making out, and they're like, oh, you know, or oh no, that woman's showing cleavage. It's like, for the fuck up, I'm sorry, Like we are polluting this planet. There are wars going on, but you're worried about consenting adults having a good time together. Correct, it makes no sense even with you.

If it's not air flavor, honey, then don't worry about it. Don't have the sex. You're fine. And that's the thing. Like the way I look at it as like okay, you feel that way more sex for me?

Then like badly I mean, and also like don't be so repressed a quick through out a friend once like an old friend who like good guy, little little have a flavorte. But he was like, I don't know what I'd do if a guy hit on me and i'd say, you do you say thank you, but no thank you. It's not that big of asselboo, like, calmed down. If somebody wants to bang you and they're nice about it, you don't have to bang them, but you could be flattered that somebody's you know, like let him buy you a drink. Yeah, it's too like I mean, unless you make it a big come on, grow up, grow up like And it's like if you're if you don't want to watch some great art because the human bodies in it, it's your loss.

But I think but my thing is like that's been part of like something I feel very important as as somebody who lumps our is to do this fight because it's like, hey, you know, reading up on artists like Stephen and having people be like, oh, porn and they say it like that, like hey, it's a slur and it's not a slur. But also be if that's all you get from his art, then you're blind. You're fucking blinds And I can't help you if you're blind. But I'm trying to help people that. I think more people are smart than not um on some daste I have psychical dastes like everybody.

But I think more people are smart than they're certainly treated by our culture, by Hollywood, by whatever. And you know, the thing is like, you know, why why do why are why are we okay with being treated like babies when we're adults in this in this country, Like I don't know, they want to treat us like adults and so many other things except for the thing that they want us to do in the sanctity of our own homes. It's like, yeah, you taxt us, you take our money that we make you do all these other things, and yet we can't have whatever perverse naughty sex we want whoever like and like in society, like somehow deems it inappropriate like hmm, well fuck you guys, right like, and if it's to me, it's it's what I call false morality because to me, like real more real morality is the fact, like the my home state has one of the highest rates in the country of not only poverty but food and security, especially for children.

But these motherfuckers are worried about drag queens, Like, oh, our children. What are some worried about these kids having a having a good meal? Yeah, but the drag queens can't offend them and breed and breed them. Yikes. Um, what's the word entire nate groom?

Even if breeding comes after the grooming, yes, wow, and the Bible Belt churches are grooming still in the left, right or center, so wow. I'm not saying sexually always, but it's a you know, they want to complain about in doctor nation, But yet gay people exist even though we've been indoctrinated with heterosexual stuff forever. So I just want to point that out. People like myself that are gay still exists. So yeah, yeah, it's it's ridiculous and not to it's like that's the thing.

It's fault. It's like, oh the child you've motherfuckers don't care about kids. You don't care about kids when it comes to somebody, think of the children, but they don't care about humans in general. It's even just about kids. It's like, we're gonna oppress people that are living their lives that aren't hurting anybody because we're assholes and we're fascist.

But it's also like a smokescreen, like we're gonna do some crazy, fucked up ship. It's like censorship. If something's being censored, they go after We can do a Lavron back to this movie, it's a Hustler because Hustler was this great breeding ground for really altrey like cutting edge artists like Steven Sadium, like Jerry Stall you know my you know, even later down the right, like my friend Mike McFadden. You know, you know, it's so many other, so many any great writers at Hustler. Hustler also published writers like Charles Minkowski right um and oh god, trying to think the name m blanking.

But like one of Abel Ferrara's main collaborators, Like people always at Playboy was classier, Hustler was like the working band's Playboy. And that's why people would say, oh, Hustler, but it's like, no, Hustler was. Hustler was a magazine that treated working class people, not with sneers or classes, and Playboy was classes. Playboy was something that people who could feel sophisticated. I feel like they're, oh yeah, because it's for people with money.

It's this country's classes as much as it is uh sexually repressed. Larry Flint was no dummy though, Like Larry Flint was one of the greatest freedom fighters this country's ever had, straight up yeah, and that's the thing that banded willingly did jail time and got fucking shot, Like yeah, paralyzed. Yeah, I mean so come on, that's h by. I was trying to think where I was going with this. I got so passionate, like, um, I'm with you, I'm with you, Like well, and the problem is, like I feel like the bullshit has to be met with passion because the people that are so against porn and like like sexual expression are very passionate about it.

They're passionate about how much they hate. It's passion. They're too passionate. Yeah, Like like it goes back to the whole, like are the straits okay? Like that's the way that I look at it because like I mean, like that is for me, a lot of it's like why do you care what two people do in the sanctity of their own bedroom.

Yeah. Also, like on a slightly lighter note, but I'm but I'm also being serious. Look at the face of every person past and president that is like been a big oppressor that's been super right leaning, super like pro censorship, anti anti sex, anti gay, um anti anything that makes life amazing, Because what I'm saying look like they've never known an orgasm in their life. These are some of the most joyless human beings you will ever see. You want to look at the face of Pat Robertson and tell me that man ever enjoyed a moment in his life.

I probably enjoyed plenty of elicit, discrete gay sex that he never actually got to enjoy because he had to be in the closet the whole time. Like that's the thing, Like that's the fucked up thing. Like these people are unable to let other people be happy, but when they want to exercise their rights, they do it in private. But you know what, they at least can't enjoy it. At least we know that they can't have the kind of sex that all these other people and all these other relationships that people can have out in the open.

They'll never be able to have that, And that is punishment enough. It's just you don't have to punish the rest of us because you're so repressed in your own existence. Like, yes, I get why this movie's rated X because it shows penetration, but that's only the NPAA, Like you know, like, should you be showing a ten year old this movie? No? Should an eighteen year old see it.

I mean, maybe if they want to watch this again, like to watch this for the purposes of being turned on? Is not the point of this movie? Maybe, well not the not the sole intention. I don't think there's a way to show these kinds of things on screen without at least eliciting some kind of reaction if it's being shown like this. I'm not talking about in like a violent way, because there's nothing in this movie that is remotely violent, aside from the devil ream who said reams the proper Heathan I am.

I'm like, oh, the devil wants to ream everybody good Lord old scratch with a big walking stick. Uh, So let's talk about because it's essentially vignette, so we can talk about these kind of separately. It's a yes, we're going on a psychosexual journey with Missus van Houten, which, by the way, oh my god, the name alone. It's anybody who's familiar with the Charles Manson case be getting because of course, Leslie van Houghton was a Manson family member a millhouse, which then makes me think of retroniction. So god, I think the Manson family sadly a little sexier than that.

But um, what if there was just someone in a Nixon mask? And what if what if instead of a Jack in the Box, it was a guy in a Nixon mask that did the same thiller. No, no, I think I think a Jack in the Box is already pushing it, but it's very still kind of whimsic pool like a carnival night, which is kind of cool and fascinating. A guy in a Nixon mask is instant true crime, and I don't like it, especially if this, especially if the guy's already sweating like Nixon would be just like O in like a like a very very fine layer of like do like well, you know, his diet was ship so that bought anybody fluid sweat whatever it's gonna it's gonna have a smell, which, by the way, that's a seat this show. We're giving you, listeners all the gifts.

We're giving you cultural discourse, film and art information and a little tip for the people out there. If you want your fluids to taste good and prove that diet y'all, get some produce in your belly. Get some pineapple, pineapple, mangoes, bananas, mangoes. I don't know, I don't all of it. It's all good for you.

Corn is the devil, though I'm not in a sexy way, so I don't eat corn. Gross it is. I know it is phallic though well, I mean I'm who eats corn. I mean unless youa John Cougar Melly camp sucking on a chili dog. I don't think youbody eats corn where it's like stick the corn cob in your mouth and just pull it out and the farmer's like, yeah, there it is.

Your countresses said your throat gross, that's a little bugger. So okay, So it's not okay. So it's not a clown. It's a jack in the box. It is southerly jack.

Now, I actually think something's more creepy in the scene than the jack in the box. Okay. The dolls, the surrounding like toys in that room that are surrounding her, yes, watching, watching effectively. There's one that almost looks like uh. And I'm trying to think the term is a laughing Sally, which was like one of the animatronic famous animatronic kind of jolly club lady that would be like laughing.

You'd see her a lot of variations of her at various fairs and carnivals, and I think I want to say those were called laughing Sally. So there's a doll that looks kind of like a laughing Sally. And that always that's like like tattooed in my brain when I think at the scene the Jack in the box, Um, what do you think is creepier the nose or the rictus grin? I So what's interesting is it's like it's like one of those half masks, right, so it's like eyes up or his face and then nose down. I don't know.

I think what's actually creepier is the tongue that comes out from beneath the teeth sometimes. But you I love that. It's a little unsettling. It totally. Um reminds me also this this great con Fate from the twenty um where he's got um, this great sort of rickst Grant.

Is it the man the man who laughs? I'm blanking on the name, but it's a cod fate silent film and that's like and uh, just there's there's something to me and and unsettling, got that kind of grin like and but I love it put you in such a word, he's a rouse. It's not like a rape fantasy everything. She's into it. You know, she's you know, beautiful Dorothy LeMay, like this gorgeous woman having a nice time with this oversized Jack in the Box who's very in down boy boy I think, I think, yeah, that is not a spring that sprung him out.

Sorry, leg good not Penis. Yes, Heather, I mean, look, you know what I mean, you know what, He's a sex toy. Literally reminded her thought, really, that's what That's what I saw was that, like, that's the thing with this movie. I assumed every scene or vignette has like a there's like a gag, there's like a meaning or like a joke meaning or something. So my assumption was, oh, it's a seize a sex toy because he didn't get it toy Jack in the Box pops out.

God, I think it's a winer too, just like it's so kind of like it's like her weird id though where she's clearly like partially kind of revisiting like a room by she might have had as a kid. Right, but it's fun, but it's but it's now processed through like her adult it filter, and it's it's almost kind of like sometimes like you know, you'll have like a weird dream and maybe it's a it could be a sex dream, could be just a regular dream, but it'll like you'll have something pop up from like your past. But it's like frau, it's like putting a blender kind of like and then it's it's like that's how it also kind of post like to me, I love the audio is so good, like the different layers. I wish we had a better copy access um, because everything.

I haven't seen it on a tube sides, but I'm assuming because even the DVD is basically from a BHS, Like it's not it's not the best quality, but um, but even with the kind of like that great quality, you can hear like the care that you know they put into having like layered audio, that'd make it a little more unsettling and kind of flesh it out. No pun intended. Well, I was actually gonna say, like the only thing that I found grating actually was in some of the scenes, the looped audio that's like I don't know, like in the scene where um, she's with the she's in like the Opium den though it's like a hookah lounge, like they looped the audio, and it's like I's at one point I just couldn't stop focusing on the looping of the audio, and I was like and I was like, I maybe for somebody this is not getting on their nerves, but for me specifically, as like an audio guy, I couldn't help but keep focusing on like the audio looping, which like is totally fine.

It doesn't beat the ring of fire cover which nothing. No kids, well old man river, I can never unhear now, Oh my god, like wait we gotta say that's oh wait for that. But but it's it's funny because like the audio, yeah, like it's it's a little bit much, but I see what, I see what you're getting at. Yeah, with the with this scene, I didn't mind some of the repetition because to me, like it's just like it. It just felt like kind of like you're almost like at a carnival where a lot of the automatic stuff is loop um, like the music and even some of the like you know a little like um sort of like interstitial noises and some of the like rides and stuff they'll just haven't piped in.

Um. The the hookah, the hookah. I feel like I'm saying it sounds like a same hooker but with an accent hooka hook hooka yeah or hook like so like the like you know, sort of pseudo Arabian Nights kind of opient in scene. That's actually my least favorite in the whole movie, because I feel like it's a little more you know, I want to say it's wrote by any means, but comparatively to everything else in the movie, I feel like it's kind of the more sort of like down low one that I mean, because like there's that lead in where she's like I want to be like used as like a thing, like as im like an item like and then like that's how she's used in that. I mean, it's like it's the most pedestrian intentionally, right, Like it's it's the most like anything else you would see in any other porno.

But I think that that's kind of like a pretty novel way of commenting on this kind I mean, like the perception of pornography as commoditization versus artistic, right, because like everything else, you could say like, oh, these are artistic, and I think they are, and I think that there's art in everything, but more mainstream people, you know, would be harder to convince them, but like it's the most genuinely pornographic of anything in the movie. Is that? Yeah, No, I would, I would agree with that. I will say something that's kind of cool. Note is one of the gentlemen in the scene is an actor named Kin Starbuck, who I believe was of Native American lineage, which you don't often think about Native American actors and classic adult, but there were there were a few.

There's him, Jeanette Littledove was an actress. I feel like there was at least a high pacial lee. Um, so that's kind of cool, let me think about it, though, I mean, Hollywood wasn't really like using Native American actors as they're like mainstream stars that adult but adult was so and even now even though like the adult industry even now has some stuff they need to work on as far as like racism, like any other industry in this country. Um, I do think it's a cool at least that native but there were late Native American performers that you know had that instant and Ken Starbuck pops passed back up in Cafe Flush because I think he is the there's a rat, a humanoid rat Milkman. You see you need to see apparently I was.

I was also going to say, you know, to also comment in kind of the progressive nature of this. You know, there's a lot of progressive sex being had on screen, a lot of ass eating, anal sex. I mean stuff that again, like mainstream pornography is only now really like not tackling per se, but is finding it to be more palatable. I guess, like the you know, like ass eating has become kind of a meme in and of itself now, but like I think that speaks to the point of like ass eating is just like an lingus cunnelingus. Like there's there's a lot of it in this movie.

And that wasn't necessarily the thing at the time in eighty one to be showing female centric porn as well, where it's less about the man being pleasured and more. But I mean, in almost all these scenes it's about her pleasure, not the men specifically. Well that's the thing. It's like, I feel like this film is really feminist, and it's like I went into it, of course I try to go into any film in general, especially as a new if it's a new film for me, just completely like a blank slate and try I try. I mean, am I always successful Sundays more than so, depending But it's always good to try and go to something as objective as you can.

But it's like one of the things, especially the more I thought about it, I'm like, this is so this is to be progressive because it is really all about her pleasure in what she wants, right, and you know, and kind of the cool thing is like with Stevens stuff, is any of the accusations if somebody, if somebody wants to say, oh, well, adult films or sexists or this or that. And it's like when in and the Stephen Sadie universe are always like the most colorful, the most fascinating. I'll half the time get the best dialogue. I mean some of the guys do too. But that's the thing, It's like, there's not really you know, there's not really any bad agendas going on here and in any of his adult films.

In fact, even in his later stuff like The Party Dolla Go Goes aries of the women for sure, rule that rears like they all of the female characters. The guys are almost like they're almost more object than the women, aren't Um. You know, but that's that's something that is very refreshing and having. I mean, there were a few directors that tried to be very female centric. Um uh and I said I tried.

Some were absolutely Domiano wise um Bradley Massacre. Uh. But with Steven it's just like he's his own he's his own artist. And uh. With Van Houghton, Um, she's such a like even though like we're bed to think she's the patient, she's clearly like such a like I hate using this term, but she's like an alpha.

She's totally kind of just like she has like she is full of assertion with with the insertion. She's the assertive inserter as her tists. And that's the thing. I mean, you know, all of the stuff that happens in this movie in terms of the penetrative sex is not only wanted, but she is in control in all the scenes for the most part. Like I guess you could make the case in the kind of the native den, like the opium den, like that might be the only one.

But like she has a full on lesbian fantasy because she wants to have a lesbian fantasy. Like that happens because she wants to have that same sex encounter, and like you said, I mean, it's it's all about the control that she's asserting over other people. I do like that the movie kind of bits you into the idea that that's not the case. But I think that's one of the smarter I mean, this movie is put together by people that are trying to get a reaction, right, I mean you're you say aught tour. I agree, but I would also say provocateur, because this is provocative entertainment, right, Like you know, like I'm not putting this on for my family on a fucking Saturday, but there might be a group of people where I'm like, you know, you want to watch this kind of weird ass like kind of transgressive, very progressive porno like porno movie.

Like again, like I don't even know how you would explain this to someone, like because because like anyone would look at this and say this is poorn. But it's not porn, but it has pornographic elements, So does that make it porn? Like yeah, I mean, but SODA's in the realm of the senses. I mean, SODA's vauntrey or a stymphomaniac, right right, again and again, like I just don't know what they like the fact that there has been a line created and stuck to by people for seemingly arbitrary reasons is why I say, like, is it isn't it? Like That's why I'm I'm unwilling to say, because I don't want to put this movie in a box, because putting things into boxes isn't very fun.

Oh and boxes should be. I mean, I'm not a fan of categories, even though, like we all sometimes do it just to you know, because like when you're writing about anything or trying or doing a podcast, like you know, sometimes you kind of have to like have some framework just to kind of help explain it. And I mean, so if you ask me, I would say, to me, this is Autrey Outrey a surrealism high art with pop cultural The thing is like we have even like pop culture art, which is which is a theme, That's the thing. Stephen has a big background in advertising, like you know, and especially I mean like even in Hustler, Like he did all the um leisure Time products that which was Hustler's own like sex toy company, but all of his ads for them, I mean some of them look like Norman Rockwell, like setups like they're so wholesome.

And there's even one like where it's like the Little Missed Muffett, but it's got you know, the only thing that's really unwholesome. It's like, you know, hey, here's a you know, here's a here's here's here's a shank, here's a vibrating shake. Um. And it's that kind of subversion. I mean I would also call it very subversive, oh, with what he's done, because people go into these films thinking, oh, it's it's porn, it's adults, and it is adult, but it's is it porn?

I wouldn't call it porn? But what I think of porn, I think if something that's just pure sex and again nothing wrong with that. Um. But to me, when I think of port, I mean that's just something that's just a little more meat and potatoes and um and yeah, but can that be art? Of course, I'm a fan of Marcel du Shop, Who's just like, you can point at something in the is that art?

If you call it art? You know that have that flexibility. I think when people get so hard lined about anything, um, that's where it's not as fun. And it also just kind of ruins and he get discussion. But um, I agree so that Yeah.

I mean these characters though, and the the fucking journey you go on. Like one of my favorite scenes is and this is like an interstitial bit there's no sex in it, and it's like but you know, she approaches like this sort of automaton man who's like making these weird kind of like almost like mechanical typefaces. Like he's clearly like has the flesh of a man on his face, but she's trying to like you know, unbutton his trousers and she keeps hitting metal and then she pulls out like a fetus like a robbery. And I mean to you, imagine being in the in a in an adult movie house like where guys you know the rain croak. I I end, I probably like what I can't work with this like but um yeah, granted, this film didn't get a lot of great reviews.

Uh in the adult pressed um Kafe Flesh got more divided, But um, I mean Kevin Flish got great refused a lot of places. But I think some of the adult like movie critics felt like it was um like the film might have been kind of making fun of people that go to see porn in adult movies, which I wish you could interpret it, but I think there's other ways and that's another podcast. But um uh, but I dreams did get like great like adult movie people as a whole, like in the trade magazines loved it. Um But you still get scenes like that, and it's always I found that one really fascinating because it's almost like, you know, it could just be like something fun and surrealist, you know, just to have that provocative image.

It also could be you know, who knows, maybe she maybe she had a miscarriage, maybe she has sexual hang ups because of something that happened with the child that didn't happen, you know, that wasn't brought the term. You know, it gives you that food for thought. And I definitely think most people don't, especially like a modern audience where so much of adult film um has kind of almost gone back to its origins. Like I feel like things that are basically kind of like loop, it's more popular than you know, which that's the origin of adult is stag loop. And you know, if you're going to think of if you're going to porn hub, you know, most people aren't probably going to be watching a whole narrative film.

Now, I do. I am of the understanding that there are are there are more like people in the industry that are kind of going back to that, to having narratives, which I think is really exciting. I think anything that you can make creatively that bends people's brains on what they think something should be is good. I think it's healthy. I think it's really healthy on the art and with film especially, um I agree with And I also think, you know, the thing that's interesting about a movie like this is that because it's kind of rides this weird line and exists in such a weird spot where yes, it is an X rated movie, but like again, the sex and kind of the sexiness of the movie is not necessarily the point.

It's like, well, why is it X them Because it shows penetration. Okay, so that's it. So like apparently penetrative sex is X rated and that's and that's what the expectation is. So you can't show penetrative sex. So adult has to be its own thing.

But I think to call it adult is probably better than to call it porn. I think that's a better way of putting it, because only I mean only adults should be watching this stuff, right, Yeah, but only adults should be watching a lot of things, like you know, that's uh, you know, like I mean, I you know, it's it's okay, it's I don't know, like not to get to a far into the weeds. But yeah, Lenny Bruce famously synetics sees that in America you can show a woman having her breast severed or cut off mutilated before you could show it being caressed, right, and that mindset has really depressedly not left a lot of people. And that's I and I personally I'm problem with violence in movies at all either. But but I mean, you know, when it comes to like with movies where it's like, oh my god, nudities, that's really that's really wrong, But you're okay with watching even if it's simulated people getting you know, maimed, murdered, you know, like that's that's fucked up.

Like um. But but going back to night Dreams, Um, there's like the little layers we get with Van Hotten and in the humor too, like we get, um, you know, I don't know, should we should we we got to go to the Cowgirls because you mentioned the lesbian, and it's probably if this film. This film has a lot of iconic scenes. In my opinion, this is probably I think, for a lot of people the number one. It's my number two because my number wants the cream of wheat man.

But we'll get into that a little bit. I mean, the dildo in the holster is pretty. That's so cute, right, and and like the sort of the mirror Image girls, and which I believe is Danielle and Jacqueline Laurean's um who I hope but pretty like who worked a lot in that industry. Um. And but and if you see these two girls in other films, they don't really look that much alike.

But the way that they're lit and the way that like clearly they rehearse them and I can I could probably let know. I found out from the man himself recently. And I feel like for such a dummy for not putting this together on my own. But Steven, it put up to me that their whole scene songingness that they have together, you know, or they're like April Shower or bring me Flower and Zeo that thing is a reference to the peanuts from Mathra Like, give me as much to the Matha Rubies now the Peanuts, the two little twin like fairy princesses that speak in unison and seeing together to Usher and Mathra, it's like an homage to them, which that makes me love him even more because if there's anything I love as much as m provocative autour cinema, it is Mathra uh aka Mossura like and just and just hot hot hot covers, a brig of fire wall of voodoo Babies, Oh my god, one of the cover alone, like it's it's legendary, It's legendary.

And this band is one of the greatest post punk bands. Uh. In my opinion, all of Rudo very underrated. Um, and this is the band. That's what this reminds me of is like, um, it's like punk porn right Like it's like not like in a bad way again, like the punks a bad right well that does thing like the punk the punk scene is so like lovingly transgressive that like it, you know, gg Allen our good friend, fucking what's the guy from the Executioners?

Oh god? Um the mentors, the mentors. Yeah, like those kind of people, I mean, you know, and like that world and this kind of makes sense. I'm sure Steven Sadie and his friends with or hung around in similar circles even like, oh no, I'm trying to be transgressive, right like night night Flight, right, like this is night Flight but porn like you know, but penetrative an adult Like they couldn't do that on public broadcast, but they could do it here like and they will and they would. Why not?

Well, I mean Steven's office at the time was literally like either like above or near the infamous club the Mask, where you know bands like the Germs and X and the Bags and you know, just saw of these great bands that you know that played. I mean this was like sort of like uh, you know Patian zero for the punk scene in LA for the og punk scene, which was very diverse, Like that's the thing a lot of people unfortunately again kind of you could make a mirror image to how people view sex films. You know, people like punk they think of angry white boys that are skinheads, and it's like, no, the the early punk scene had women and men. It was you know, equal genders, people of various ethnicities, people of very LGBT, like the Screamers were one of the biggest bands on that scene.

And you know Tomata to plenty openly gay was actually had ties to the Coquette legendary drag chirt I mean, uh yeah, the nsit like it was such a cool scene that was actually more utopian as far as people of just misfits really coming together and there's no judgment. There's none of this prejudice bullshit. It's just people like, you're a misfit, I'm a misfit. Let's make art, and which is how it should be, much more so than I think the hippies ever. Did you know, like the po the punk scene actually did it for real?

Uh, you know, for a time, you know, everything gets codified and that's why you have to rip it up and start again. To quote the band Orange Shoes. But but now, I mean Steven had musicians help crew and and you know crew as far as like helping with props and stuff with the films. It goes on all the way to Doctor Calgary were legit had members of Wall of Voodoo. Uh, you know, especially Bruce Moreland, o G member and still a kick gas musician.

Love Bruce. He's in a band called Ravens Moreland, which is phenomenal especially for you're in a kind of dark goth kind of West Coast rock, which I certainly am. Um, So yeah, that tie it with music is huge. It's huge with secret And he would go on into like their video for Mexican Radio um, which is Wall of Voodo's best sensed song that was directed by him and Francis, And I mean, and that's what this looks like, like exactly, that's what some print. Yeah, and that's the thing Like when I heard that the Wall of Voodoo and I heard the voice, it's like I know what this is, like I and like that's why I was totally into this movie.

Like and I know again like glibness as I first time you could jerk off or something on the culture cast. That is the truth. This is like the sexiest thing we've ever watched other than when you programmed that month and it was all like softcore sex sex films. I believe. Uh, she mop come on Big Ship, she had a spiked bra that she punished bad men work and matt uh that was but this is this is way more like sexy than those movies.

It's like this is like again like this is real sex on HBO. So was that the name of a show real sex. Now, I remember I was just I vaguely remember watching something like that in college. I vally remember sneaking up late at night when I when I hoped everybody was asleep and watching that UM talk about how unsexy of a fucking show with the titles. It was very disappointing.

I'm like, oh, that was arresting. Was it sexy? Oh this man has a bifurcated penis. That's not sexy at all. I did not see that, Holy shit as a later episode.

Whoa, yeah, I guess that. I wasn't. I just like the word bifurcated? Did he do that? On?

Was the part? That's a thing. There's like a whole like is this like you know, like you'll cut late did your micwave hot dogs as a kid and he'd like cut the middle, I'm gonna say, grill hot dogs, same thing happens. Well, I mean, right, is that what it looks? That's so that's you know, like talk about getting into the weeds.

But like genital modification is obviously a very big thing. And then obviously you know there's the Prince Albert, which everybody always talks about, which male I mean therethra piercing, and then there's the one where it's like down the shaft. But the thing that like I don't hear a lot of people talking about, and I remember looking it up in college, yucking it up with all my ding dong friends, was like what would be considered almost mutilative, but like you're like cutting it like in half, like like that, can you still even have an orgasm? I don't know what the purpose is, but like on Wikipedia or somewhere, they had like you know, have you scrolled to the bottom, it's like the box with all the things in it, like a box with all these things you could click on that we're each a different kind of penile mutilation or extreme body modification is probably the better way of putting it, because I don't want to yuck somebody's young.

But yeah, like you could do it like this. You could do it like this. Uh yeah, Like I don't know why. It sounds like it would hurt, but I mean, I guess people get their tongue split. I mean, everybody, we're all in a different path in this life.

I hears heating up, why not cut your dick in half? Like you know, isn't that a bumper sticker that you know, I think we I think we got some new merchant ideas here for the culture cast. The Earth's heating up colon, cut your dick in half. Yeah, the culture cast. Folks, what is this show even about?

We don't know, sure. Culture of course, you're welcome people bifurcating dinger dogs now, but with the go back to the cowgirls seeing though. Another sort of like what I consider a hallmark of Steven's art is do you have that great sort of like so nature Like you know, it's obviously everything's on a set. You have that great sort of like dusky kind of night sky and like all of the outlines of like the hills and the desert, but it's all in black, like it's like almost like a wood cut or a yeah, um, which is so cool. And that's the thing.

It's like nature shows up a lot in his films, but it's always sort of like in these very like obviously like false nature and it's kind of cool. It's a fairy like think about it if you're like it's a product of like modern America to a point you get into an era where people are you know, AstroTurf becomes a thing. People have bowls of fruit on their table with fake fruit. What is the point of that. I'm never understood the little fake part thing, But you know there's something to me like so quite essentially like suburban Mid America of like like we want nature, but let's have it be artificial.

Like it's weird. It's weird, but it's a statement. And um, you know, and then having these two carl you know, cow girls like and and and it's just it's such a it's such a cute scene. It's really beautiful. It's lovely to look at on an erotic level, like everybody looks like they're having a good time.

Um, and you've got that music, Oh my god, I mean Walla Voodoo said to anything automatically better but then set to like Stephen Sadia forget it, it's the best. That seems great. I and I that is I mean, yeah, like, if if I had ever seen anything from this movie, I'm surprised it was. It wasn't that like I had never seen anything, but like I'm surprised nobody had ever been Like you should check this out. What is this from?

What is this movie? Well, that's the thing, like That's the other thing about this movie is like it doesn't disappoint in that regard, like it keeps ramping up what's going on, like because you know, you go from the Cowgirls to then the kind of opium den scene, to then what you can already mentioned with the automaton, to then what I would assume is a rape fantasy. Oh wow, Yeah, that's such a that's such a great scene. Which, by the way, for any of you to Palma fans out there, you should recognize an image from this because Stephen designed the posts through the original house or for Dressed to Kill, and it's literally a shot from this scene. I had a stage though, literally literally, but I mean it's like the connective tissue is so strong.

And that's the other thing is like Stephen like designed a number of movie posters, yeah, including this one. Uh and uh the Fog Carpenter's the Fog and Escape from New York. Interesting, so so cool, like like what a what a what an amazing career. And I mean that's just me giving you a kind of cliff notes. But um no, this scene with that great sort of black and white like this is just stark looking scene like her Lingeries black, even her lipsticks kind of dark, like it's almost black.

And you know, we have the intruder and it's totally set up like a horror movie, right that tension. Yeah, and he's wearing a black and white masks that almost looks like to me, it's it's almost like one part like like a weird it almost looks like a ritualistic mask. But it also kind of reminds me of that Star Trek. Yes, thank you, that's what I thought. It was the one with the one with Melvyn Bella.

You mean, and I believe Frank Gorse. Yeah, I just remember Melvin bellising it. I love Frank Corson. Oh my god, Frank Corson. That's what it made me think of, was Frank Gorson.

I want to say that episode was written by Harlan Ellison. Think you're right, and I love got It's like Frank Gorson and Harlan Ellison. What a world to be living? Like life visit life could ever be too bad? Right?

But um, but the Steine it's clearly your rape fantasy obviously, like if I mean even down to the mask, like don't you like that? How it's like it's not a white guy. It's not necessary guy of color either. It's either like you know, like you know, I like that, Like it's just I like that because it doesn't make the movie overtly political or overtly like making up statement, do you know what I mean. It's kind of like, oh if she could be fantasizing about either.

So it's a guy with you know, black and white mask, but it also it's also kind of like white, almost dehumanizing him as opposed to her being dehumanized as the victim, because he's just he's literally just a figure in a mask, right, He's he's really given no human traits other than you know, yeah, he's you know, and she's obviously into it. It's not like it's some fantasy that. Yeah, it's not. It's not. It's not like some creepy like I mean, you know, if things of that nature creep you out, then maybe just the they thought of it, if just the thought of this, of what we're telling you was freaking you out, then yeah, maybe don't watch it.

Um, but it's certainly not I wouldn't call it a roughie. And and that's the thing in any of Steven's films, there's not ever anything that's like Roth or Santo massochistic or anything that's you know, would be considered I think extreme. You know. The surrealism is more the elements kind of around the sex. The sex x in and of themselves are pretty you know, I would say pretty.

Uh. I mean other than the rimming. It's pretty vanilla. As they say, that's the name of our news show. Other than the rimming.

That's also some new merch where we talk about everything but rimming. We won't talk about rimming, but we'll talk about everything else. Yes, so so on that episode of Dynasty, all right, but John Collins did not rim and Larry Larry Hagman though on Dallas Boy rim and everybody you think he keeps the hat on. Oh. I'm not saying that the people in this don't come, because they do a lot.

Plenty of people do. But I never get the sense that like it's performative sex. Does that make sense? Like, I don't know how. I Like, I know that the people are enjoying it, But the sex is not the point, right, I mean you said it yourself, like the sex is not in this film.

I mean it's but it is the performers, like this is more. This film does have I would say, a strong sense of eroes, like it is UM like with Kathe Flash Um in that universe, it's like the sex is very mechanical because it's tied to the story and like the performers and that we're told try to act mechanical, like don't you know, try to act like you're into it. It's not a rape thing or anything, but it's just like it's a job, right, like in that universe like literally, and you know we're best since we're dealing more with fantasy. It is more heroes. I think that's the other reason why this got a lot of good reviews in the adult like in adult mags and with writers like um the like Bill mar gold Rip which Bill was a great writer and also very strong like first rights um, you know, first Amendment rights fighter, also like started um a nonprofit to look out for the welfare of adult performers, which like which was called PAW and so like very progressive.

Like I know he was a very controversial figure, but Bill did a you know Bill when he was I think on this art tried to you know, definitely did a lot of good. But he loved this film you know, he ate it Kathy flesh um, which I disagree with. But but but part of that is because it wasn't erotic. It wasn't the point. Night Dreams is interesting because it is erotic, and you know, I think you could call it erotica and that's fine, like because it is like ero spaced.

Um. But uh and of course if you're like Gloria, like I love Gloria Leonard who was a great adult asterist and writer, and Sherry said that their stream porn and erotica is lighting, that's fair, yeah, which it is fair too, but um so no, I mean it's if you're looking for something weird. But also it has like sensual moments like nigreames is good. It's a good blend of that, I think. Um but uh, you know, I mean and especially nowadays, where you could I mean you could literally probably see an orgy of clowns, which is also a new merged daddy dadda wise.

So yeah, and that speaks to just like people will like sexualize anything, like you know what you say, Like you can point at something and say that's art. I have seen people who are turned on and have made body pillows for Bluie's father from the television show Bluie, which is about an animated dog. So like, not yunking anybody's yum. I'm just saying, like you want to say that, you know, porn isn't art or art isn't porn. If you can turn art into porn, then how is porn not art?

I feel here. I had a friend that once sent me Jane Silent Bob slash fick. Oh is it the two of them banging in a very same or massochistic way? But you know what, actually what bothered me the most was how emotional it was, where there was like crying and knittig. I was like, okay, I get the banging, but this like angst, the emotional eggs stuff.

It It was wild. I did not care for it. But if it makes somebody happy, that's cool. Life is short. If you're not hurting anybody, that's you know who.

Yeah, it's fine, But I prefer to watch great reviews like NIGERI see well. I was to say, like, what kind of slash vick is there about a woman blowing a cream of wheat box? Oh my god, okay, thank you, we have what is happening here? This is if you guys want a peek into my mind and like what gives Heather tremendous happiness. This is in the easily the top five.

This is right next to Timothy Carry Dancing Um, which is a huge joy bringers in my heart um or the Italian band Devil Doll, which also brings a lot of joy to my heart. Uh. This scene for eBay listening who hasn't seen it? Uh? Missus Vandy Houghton is in the kitchen making breakfast and she's making cream of wheat and it starts kind of like she has like some suggestive light about like, oh, it's so creamy down my throne, which is funny as fuck on top of her, and then she hears a voice safe yeah, it was like you better eat it before it gets cold, and she turns around and it's a giant cream man a how I even described this an anthropomorphic creamer wheat box that's anatomically correct.

And then Old mad River comes on the soundtrack and they are, you know, they're inter interlocking, um, interacting in a very friendly way with each other, set to the rhythm like they're snapping their fingers. Darren b J's like it's so great. I love the snapping of fingers while he's being blown. That is wasn't that I loved it? That is right?

That is the motherfucker keeping beat while having while getting dome is great. Yeah, I was, let you, how can this get better? This can I get better? And then it gets better because then you have a dancing piece of toast wearing motherfucking saddle shoes, which is the most stylish footwear on the planet, dancing at that do on a sap cellphone sola like, oh my god, Okay, Christmas is every day for mama because the success. And on top of that, do you know who's playing our beloved toastman.

It's Steven Santia, Like I like I already even if I didn't, you know, for anybody listening, Steven is vally great autry. He's a great pumi legit, just like one of the sweetest people you'll ever meet, like such a just awesome human being. But even if you didn't know that about him, you would love him and build an altar to him just for being the fucking toastman. Like the toast man, he's a dancing piece of toast playing the saxophone. That is, Oh my god, that's the greatest thing on earth.

You can have your your iron Man. You can have your yodas, your Yoda people, your yodas ya, you can have here. You can have your yodas. Yeah, you can have your yodas. I don't want him.

Take your little green feller and get him out of here. You can have your bad ai chi horse shit whatever. You can take that and fly off to the moon for all I care. Had dancing piece of toast playing saxophone, old man River and then who's dancing side by side by cool reap man. You're welcome.

The Lord loves you. You can dump your Bible and you can have your dancing toast Man not Dreams Force or twenty sixty nine says suck my dick. God does this literally the only podcast? But I feel like we could let money that is talking about, uh sexual politics in America Night dreams Uh transgressive. I wouldn't say this is transgressive, but Autrey Art and Stoke called Steve Austin impersonation.

He's here, he's here, and he's he's here, and he's ready to this told be on your patron. What would he be doing watching this just be like just jerking off furiously. I come in here. You never gotta believe that's Jack in the box, just got his nose up. This woman's who ah, that's what I imagine he calls it because he's like a five year old.

Well, he hand SIPs his light his jeans short says, it's selling glass breaking. That's a that's a that's a reference. But if you're a wrestling fad and you're into art house, you will get that right and which this is why we create the content, Heather. That's why I am well. I am disappointed though at the end of this movie we didn't get Radu in the hell scene.

Instead, we got like a fu Man chew devil. The Devil's great though. The prosthetics that's pretty good. They're well lit. They're well lit.

Glenn, hetrick would not have any problems, Oh my god. And the light fucking dick just hanging and flopping around is just too much for me to handle. Not enough for everybody else to handle, clearly, but too much for me. Would you say, too hot to handle, two colds to hold his Look, let's just get this out there, folks. Every single male performer who drops Trout in this movie has a fucking dick, and it's almost like to the point where like it almost feels kind of not comedic, but like I appreciate just like, all right, if we're gonna do this, like we need to have people that are like hung like horses um in defense.

This was an era of like most a lot of the male talent then and now I think it's worse now actually because like at least, but then you you occasionally would get like you know, somebody like say like a Jerry Butler, you know who. Yeah, Jerry was not small by means, but he was like girls, some girls actually preferred him because he was like like six or seven. It's like, this isn't gonna like injure your surface, you know, it's that gonna come out of your mouth while you're having that what kind of slash vic? Are you listening to reading our Riding now? Umding?

I've read some of your riskue stuff, but that but it was Pj's rodu's long fingers were never mentioned. You're right, well, because did you see the nails on that? Oh? Hell, everybody knows that. Listen.

I don't even like watching eighties part where women had those dragon nails and they have a girl girls saying I'm like, oh your vaginas and dangerous. Yeah that away, I will say, I do love some what I guess now would be considered uh what pee wee Herman likes vintage erotica. I do enjoy Like after I got done watching night Dreams, I like watch some like vintage porn for a while. Just like now, you just like what what era like the eight is like the late seventies early eighties. Oh yeah, it's a great area.

Yeah I didn't what did you think I was talking about? Well? By this could be like twenties, you know, it could be like thee Actually, you know in France and this they actually found, like this is the thing you can access. There is a stat film from the late twenties from France that is a satanic black mass orgy that I figured out where I'd go back in time if I had a fucking time machine. Is that amazing?

He just wants to be part of this devil orgy? Well? I love that. Love that for you. I love that.

I feel like there's I feel like, you know, like King Diamond would approved of that, And I mean, look, who hasn't wanted to have an orgy with the devil in hell. That is also my favorite Van Halen song that never came out, Orgy with the Devil talking about second on the end of the Devil's Pecker. I'd listened to that song. Oh it's big like a baseball, but the biggest an apple. I don't know.

I'm not. I'm no David Lee Roth. Sorry, folks, Well, at least you were Sammy Hagar. That's the least I could ask. I think, Sammy Hagar.

Maybe the devil Actually, haven't you seen his hair? He looks like a human oodle though like a human like like a shepherd dog. You know what I'm talking about? That hair. The true, the true Lord of evil and deceit in lives, would give us things like so you may be onto sign?

Right? They the real devil, though, would not say ream who said reading God? There is in that scene there's strap on sex even which that strap oka scarcewing. Oh my god, it does not look pleasant. Nah, but you find if you if you watch enough older films, sex tories of a certain vintage, shall we say, all look like they're dangerous to a woman's spot or any orifice.

I wouldn't have a bung hole that whatever him lb jail all of a sudden there for a second here and they let out the pockets because uh, because I hang near. Have you ever heard that LBJ LBJ in the phone with his tailor talking about his bung hole. He's literally like, makes make make should make sure there's enough room in my pants from my bung hole. And we and we and you know what, we thought we were living in crazy times, folks. I mean that guy had a huge cock apparently, so you know, oh you don't know about that.

He apparently had like a fucking hog. He called it jumbo, and like would like take it out in meetings since it's it's a different time, a different time. I'm dead fucking serious when you say lpi J Lindon Bay's jobs. Hell yeah, he called his dick jumbo. Yo.

Hey from gosh, I don't think anything's ever gonna be sexy to me again, ladybird. Just think about ladybird. Now, that's like cat, let's the think about your like somebody's gross asked a great uncle. That's all that's like. I got mature with tobaccy in my pocket near my bung hole.

Oh oh god, the way he says, I feel like my ovaries just died. Mind. I know this is every rabbit that they use on Dorothy LeMay looks unpleasant because that's what that would be. I don't like that. I don't approve of that rabbit.

Right. It's a rabbit, right, like a modern day one. It's like a it's like an early leaves a lot to be desire, I would call it. I would call it a check like a was that that krypted a jackal dick alope. I don't understand.

It seems like they're actually using it backwards even because like it looks weird, because like the one thing just looks like a cylinder with like an antenna on the other one, and then the other one looks like a sort of like a dick, like a demon dick um another great band name. But it looks like they're using it incorrectly. I also like how it was just like on his like staff too. I guess I can't tell what's going on, but like it looks he I love it, but it looks on fucking fun like just unconscionable to use that on someone. Oh no, but that I think this is like a quick story time.

When I turned eighteen, I convinced my friend who was year older. I was like, let's go to this. There's a place that, you know, like a video store, but they had a back room, but they were that you were that friend, me too. That's awesome, man. Wait we roll.

Also at one point we re ran out like a poor guy trying to rimp porn because I was like, I was like, oh my god, look it. We were like finding like titles, like there was a film called Dude, where's my clue? We've been asking for years? Can someone tell us? It's funny.

I'm sorry if you can't see the humor in pornography that I don't know, well, that's why I always ask for the fake porn titles at the end of episode that you me and Father Malone do together. We have it's so funny. We've come up with some chims something cold. I was trying to remember that, yeah, and I could not. I'm telling Mike White about it.

I was like, Heather always had the best ones because she used colon in one of them, and it was like the funniest fucking one. I just have to go go if you want to find out go, yeah, go listen to the episodes. I already know what the title for this movie would be, the porno title night Creams. Yeah, I mean, I mean, is it not? I mean like she's having night dreams.

I mean the equivalent is the night creams. Bro's Nocturnal emissions is the funniest phrase. That's also it sounds like the name of an industrial bank. Now touring with tool is nocturnal emissions. Yeah.

I'm like, yeah, yeah, all right, rock and roll. But this Vines store was attached to like another store that like sold like lagerie and like clubwear, but they had a back room with toys. But some of these toys I think, literally, we're probably older than night Dreams because they had ones that looked totally like old school if you watch seventies erotica, old school, like that hard, cheap looking plastic that looks like it probably has lead in it. Like it's like and I'm just like, oh my god, Like, if you hate somebody, get them the six story. If you're trying to have them break up with you buy them this.

Like it's like, do you hate the walls of my vagina so much that you gave this to me? That was like because it looks like it has unhealthy property, like like if it is as if it's exposed to the sun, it starts glowing. I you know, I think people really take for granted the ease with which one can have sex with a facsimile vagina or penis in twenty twenty three. Well we've come a long way. Pieces of wood and stone, Yeah, well, I mean stone dildos are a thing like and wooden dildos had to have been a thing too, like you think about like a lady part oh And I was like, guy, I've been hurting himself like a stone like or a wood Yeah, but that was that was speaking more for like that they're like a dude fucking like a wooden handle hole, Like I don't know, we've gone We've gone down.

I'm weird right Well, I mean again, like I can't help it when they show us some sex toys on screen that look unpleasant to be around. They are, but it's hell like so it's very it's very fitting. I wondered that, like, is was that kind of the point then? I mean, it's it's it is a great visual and um, and I wouldn't be the litmus trivial lady. If I didn't point out the the main woman that she's interacting with is Lonnie Sanders, who was a very popular adult model and actress at the time.

So if anybody's like, hey, who's the who's the lovely brunette having a great time with Satan and Dorothy Lamay, it's Lonnie Sanders, You're welcome. Who's the woman eating Satan's asshole? That is? Is that Dorothy? I'm trying to remember who was doing the Satan rimming.

I think that was Dorothy, is it? I think you're right, I have been. It might have been Lonnie. If it's that Dorothy, it's Lonnie. I can you can kind of do that?

I just I love the visual of a woman giving the devil a blowjob, Like that's funny, Like that's hilarious, right, Like I mean, I want to write a country song about it, right, I think somebody didn't Charlie Daniels already write a song about the devil going down in Georgia. Now, now, Chris, you know Dan here in the South, But Charlie Daniels died. Everybody lowered the rebel flags that half and half, that's true, that's true, they're racist? Now, is that what that song is called? The Devil went down in Georgia went down to George went down on Georgia.

The devil devil went down on Georgia, And boy was a sight to see. He had some flames and a whipped old tale and he was screaming mighty, Oe mighty. That's my favorite part of this. I mean, I don't know what Charlie Daniel's song about the woman giving the devil head would be about, but I listened to it that that well, that'd be before he found Jesus, right God, Actually, real quick, we dare have a scene with the doctors where they're having dinner, and that plate of food I think actually arguably might be even more distressing looking than any of the satanic sex stories. Yeah, I don't know what's going on with that food.

It's like some seventies like I think they got like the Regrettable seventies, regrettable meals or dinners where you see like old recipe cards and it's like people were making but like here's our gelatin tuna casserole. You know, it's like weird shit, Like like I'm like, I don't know if this was people wanted to lose weight, so we'll just make food as absolutely repellent as possible so we won't eat it. I like them. It was a different time. Like the vaguely phallic candles on the table, they are they're vaguely phallic.

I mean most things in this movie are, to be fair, most candles are vaguely phallic, though. Yeah, but these are rigged candles for her pleasure, for some somebody's to be a her. That's right, right, everybody. Everybody's got a hole. What fucking children's book is that?

Everybody? That's how you teach that's how you teach kids about sexuality is a book called Everybody's Got a Hole. There you go, Heather Terrible. I was thinking more like we could make some chuck or hats have it. Everybody's got a hole.

Everybody got a hole, and it's like a winky emoji. But the mouth is like making an own. If you have a hole, Well that's a lot. Everybody's talking about him, got it. Everybody's got a hole.

Everybody's got a hole. Oh the ten Jesus are you guys? That's not She's not fucking Jesus. At the end of the movie. She's fucking god.

No, that's I think he's just a nice saraphy. He's nice, all right, He's very okay. Kevin James, the good Kevin James. I wish it was just this lovey yuh, really underrated actor like again kind of like Arculby, like he you know, um, he tied really young though, which is sad and from Alcat's like a really nice guy. Um, really underrated as an actor, really good actor.

Um. He pops back up in Kathie Flush and as Johnny Rico, and it's like almost like again, it's kind of what I saidbout Andy, like almost two very different characters and striking as both of them. Um. Just yeah, he's great and I love just like the softness of this scene. It's kind of like after we've had this kind of like crazy sort of like mister Toad's wild ride um of eroticisms and we you know, it's kind of nice to have the last sort of sex scene be this very sort of idealic, like very beautiful romantic um gymnopotes right like Eric sat Just yeah, it cracks me up.

I was watching this and that's what starts playing, and I was like Wow, pretty pretty good music choice. It's very idealized sex. And I like that it's shot at least initially kind of like voyeuristically too. And then and then it's very first person, but like initially you're kind of like watching from like the other side of like a gate is what it looks like. And then and then it's close ups, just lots of close ups.

Lots of close ups in this particular vignette, like a lot more close up than there have been in any other vignette throughout the movie too. It's, uh, she has reached Paradiso. Yeah, yeah, I like I like where this movie ends up going. I like that it's kind of like the final logical step is then she's blowing an angel in heavens, So there you go, which they hey better her than Dela Reese am I right, yeah, yeah, that's fine. Angel Bad Touch by edel Um.

Yeah no, and then we get I love the ending of this movie, and this is I mean, I I resent saying spoiler alert for something that came out in eighty one. If I mean, people don't be so precious. I know some people get anal listen the movie's great, yeah, but uh but if a film's great. It doesn't matter if you know the endings, it's still going to have an impact. I know the ending of Sleepaway Camp going against that movie, and it still was amazing and jarring.

So let's that be so babies, I shouldn't be so offensive whatever, um they I'm just saying, if a film is old enough to buy alcohol, you can spoiler it ten years years. Yeah. I can understand if something just came out and it's new and you don't want spoilers, especially with TV that's different. But I've literally had ad an editor wants get on to be He's like, there needs to be a spoiler warning. And this was for a film that came out in eighty four, and I was like, really, really okay.

But we have a twist of sorts because basically there's an illusion. I don't want to even want to see the dialogue. I do want that to be a little bit of surprise because I think it's so good. But we have a reveal that perhaps the one that's been in charge this whole time, it's missus Van Houghton. Yeah, and she's been making them watch her.

I guess, I guess, yeah, which is but I mean and they've been enjoying it, Like they're clearly like the female certainly more so than the male doctor though he's he's more buttoned up and repressed, but she's always like licking her lips and being like she's way into it, and he's just like trying to be professional but you know, repressed. Andy does that like that subtle kind of think so well too. Um. It's a good dynamic, especially because I think again, like we're kind of conditioned to be used to seeing the man being so sexually aggressive and where women are supposed to be where koy and like oh you know, and instead we get the flip of this in every which way but lose here. You know, missus van Houghton's the aggressor.

The female doctor's clearly a lot more LASCIVI is openly than the mail. Um. I kind of I love that, Like, that's so cool. It's such a nice, nice, little just sort of twist of the trope. Um.

And that's smirk that the film ends up, that little kind of rise smirk that Dorothy LeMay has. It's so cute and just kind of like you if it has the film end where you're just like whoa you know it, just that nice little final touch up, just like, oh like, oh my god, you know what if I watched how do I process? It's so cool? And I love what she's wearing too. She's wearing all black.

She's been in all white the entire movie, and then she's in all black and she just I mean, yeah, the the ending took me by surprise. Let's just put it that way. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, this ain't no beach blanket bung hole people, This is this a beach blanket bung hole. Apparently LBJ does her brow the beach, the beach blanket bung hole.

God, oh god, that's I hate my brain. I will say this film has the most tastefully filmed come shot I've ever seen? Can I say that out loud? Is that legal? Am I gonna go to court for that?

Am I gonna go to jail? No, the com jail take me there? Good? Everybody, Come on, they gotta represent while you can. The angel come shot at the end of the movie filmed down the length of his pecker, like straight on you know what I'm talking about.

Yeah, of course, yeah, of course I do. I had the poster behind I wish that I wish that was the poster on the wall was just like a front on shot. People come into your officers just like what like anybody's allowed anything, that's fair. But I was tastefully done. But it took me by surprise because I was like, this is just like a lingering shot on this man's massive penis.

Like and they don't they don't pull away. They I was like wow, like wow, okay, like god damn like it and it's done rather well. Yeah, that's of course. I mean, that's the thing. If it's again, it's like a stay up of quality as far as I'm concerned, you know, it's uh yeah, I think in this film, especially um, the fact that you know, to make such a standout film in an era where there were i mean there were a number of like great adult films that were gus films.

You know, it's not just like oh it's good for poor No these there are you know, there's so many films that are great films. And but even in like the Golden you know era, like My Dreams is stand out, um because there's nothing else like it. And and to be honest, it's also like I've often felt like in some ways like Stephen like is kind of like an outlier in a way as a director of the adult film industry. Um and uh and and and not and that's not like and I mean because obviously I'm a huge you know, there are so many directors I've written about and I love that are from that era. So it's definitely you know what I say that it's not meant as a derogatory towards any book.

Um, it's just I just think that he is so unique that he is his own category, he is his own artist. Uh. And I don't think there's anybody like him in any genre. Well, I've never seen anything like this before, I'll tell you that much. Yeah, And it's uh, I mean, how often can you say that about anything?

Very very infrequently, especially when it's something like this, where again, like on the face of it, if you showed this too many people, they would not have any way to process it other than born like And that's and that's a that's a shame, but I get it. But it's a shame. And like, I enjoyed, I immensely enjoyed this for the adult film that it is, for the film that it is frankly right on. Well and that's and that's the thing too. I mean, there's always going to be it doesn't matter what I mean.

We could be talking about, you know, uh yeah, ROBERTA Ross a lady. There's always going to be people that are gonna be like, oh ut luck ring subtitles or oh this is I'm black. You know, to quote, to paraphrase Horderewski, why you make pictures for them? They blind? You know, there's always going to be people there and and and you know what does some defense Not everything's for everybody, And that's okay too, like you know, but to me, if you're somebody, if you're listening to this and you want to see something that is creative, that is different, and that is adult, and to me, like adult adult to me is like clockwork Orange is an adult film and that was originally rated X.

Like the thing, the whole thing is X rating Adult films originally just meant stuff where you could explore, you know, more mature topics and themes and be like, yeah, this is for adults. This isn't you know, this isn't for a thirteen year old, This is for eighteen and over. Um. But uh, but yeah, if you're if You're like, I want to see something creative and surreal and maybe sexy, um and something where to me. Like when you're an artist and you take that step outside the box to make your own area, it's a sign of love and respect in a way to your audience because you're not playing them for a sucker, You're not playing them cheap.

You're not being like, Okay, I know we're you want to give you what you want? Uh No, You're like, I'm gonna make you something that is straight from my brain, for my heart, for my you know, that is my pure vision. And you know, I think sometimes people will be like, oh, that's pretentious or whatever, but you know, the real pretension is thinking that, you know, people that will never love you want you want to make great art for you and they don't. And everything has its place, like diff't them going to you know, watch a big Hollywood you know, explode, you know action film. Uh And you know there's plenty of films I love that I wouldn't say is high art that's most supposed to be any Blood Dinter is one of my favorite movies and it's a fun, silly, goofy horror movie and it's supposed to be.

You know that everything has to be high art. But uh, but when I see an artist like Stephen Sadiot, who is just he is one hundred percent himself, that's a sign of love to me. That's why I love John Cassavetti's It's the same thing. These are people that can only be who they are as artists, and when somebody's that on est with you, that's respect and that's love. I agree with you one like, and it's it's weird, you know, I I don't know, I feel like so many people and I'm not going to just say people my age, but I think people in general have a very and we kind of mentioned this at the top of the episode, like, have a very weird and personal kind of relationship with intimacy and sex and what that means for them.

And then I think the media and just kind of the world in our society, this the American society specifically, has gone a long way to making things worse. Because again, I mean, I'm not saying people should be fucking in the streets, but I think people fucking in the streets would be a much better option than people beating the shit out of each other in the streets, we're getting shot, right, and it's like, you know, if everybody put the glocks down, picked up their cocks. I mean, like not to be glib, but again, like again as someone who is just very again, very progressive about sex and sexuality with my own and again like I'd like to live in a world where there are more people like that, just because again I feel like there are a lot of people that are in a very much a further direction that is a lot worse for everybody.

I don't know, it's just it's it's weird because again, like pornography almost feels utilitarian, right, like it's for a purpose, it's for masturbation, and nobody used it, Like I don't know what you're using porn for. And so when something has people being penetrated in it, it automatically becomes porn, which means it automatically devalues it right as a as a medium. And I don't know how we get away from that, because porn is an industry just like anything else. They make a product just like anything else. It'd be like going to McDonald's and eating a hamburger and never buying anything else and being like, well, why don't they sell anything else.

It's like, well, you're just choosing this one thing. If you look at porn and just say I'm just gonna jerk off to it and not watch it for anything else, Like maybe that's the intention of the filmmaker, is to turn you on. But like some filmmakers have to be doing other things like this because this is again like vaguely pornographic but more an adult film, which is an important distinction because it's unfortunate that we have to make it, but that's the distinction that has to be made. Yeah, well, and especially when it's so weird because you think about it, like I think one can argue that a lot of films are I mean, they could think about it, like you go to a comedy to laugh, you go to a horror movie to be scared, to go to a drama, I guess to cry, Like but for some reason, if you're watching something for stimilation, that's dirty, that's and that's that's what I'm saying, like I don't, I don't.

It's weird to me. It's it's not healthy. But also kind of like going back to what you're saying, um, I think one can make a very good argument that sometimes art is most impactful what it's furse of. And you know when people are going into something just thinking it's going to be, oh, sexy, adult fun time, but then there's something else going on, like a story or a you know, like something that's very dota imagery wise, or actually there's a YouTube channel I've got into um called Barefoot and Independent and they do a lot of things, but one of the things that they'll do like g rated cuts of classic adult films and the editing is really great. But they did one on this mid nineties gay film called Corruption Too, and it's like cops centered and and there's actually and it's kind of cooling.

As we were watching the g rated cut. Obviously I'm not seeing any sex because it's on YouTube, so you're really just getting story. But it's like there's actually like some sensitivity about one of the cops is like a nice cop, but he realized he's struggling realizing, Hey, I'm gay and maybe some of these laws are bullshit. Why are we Why are we you know, why are we just focusing on adult men who are hurting anything? Right?

And you're having that in a film and they and by the mid nineties. This whole era of predominant filmmakers making sent them up is kind of gone in a lot of ways, not totally gone, but it's it's it's on the wayne, but yet here you go like maybe it's not on the way, like maybe it's just being kind of being dressed up more to be obviously like shot on video, you know, sex fest, but there's something else. There's an underlying thing still there. And I think finding shit like that out is so cool, Like it's like, don't write everything off. Um, you know, I'd be like watching I don't know, it'd be kind of like going to you know, watching like a big dumb action film, but then it has something really like genuinely touching or something in there where you're like, that's actually really smart and progressive and I didn't expect that.

Um, And you don't always get that in that genre either, but when you do, it's a treat. And I just think people need to be more open minded about what what is constituted as art, but also just in general, like you know, expand your mind, you know, like, don't like if you just live the status quo life of what's expected of you. As far as like, well, this is art and this is this and this is that, and you're just eating the same fucking food. That's a sad life. That's a sad life.

There's a whole world out there of art, of culture, of different kinds of people than you, and embrace that. It's our our differences is what makes us so unique and special. It's what makes this weird at times kind of fucking depressing, angry, awful exist that's also really beautiful and touching and amazing and magical. I agree, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Like I, you know, we were joking about a porn centric or adult film centric podcast, and I'm sure they're out there, and I don't think it's such a bad idea because again, like I think, in a lot of ways, like I don't know, the hang ups in this country with stuff like this are really frustrating for someone like myself, But I can't imagine that I'm the only one who's frustrating, because they are industries full of people who are almost letting their frustrations exist externally by making it their job, you know.

Well, And and that's the thing is said, it's you know, the minute that somebody tries to take away your rights when you're not hurting anybody, you're not breaking any real laws, Like you're not abusing somebody, you're not robbing somebody, you're not killing somebody. You're loving. You're an adult and you're loving another adult. What's the problem, Right, you're not hurting anybody and yet but that's the thing fascism goes. Fascism violates the innocent while never solving or fighting the real crimes going on, you know, And that could be a whole other podcast.

But but there are actually if somebody's listening this and really curious about learning more about adult film a set amatic language, like if you want to know the history, I highly recommend the Realta Report. They do phenomenal work. Um, there's a newer one that talks about Golden age film called You Like I think it's called You Like This. You can find it like on spreaker and podcasts. And it's these two girls that are amazing or women.

It's our girl, but but they they're great. Uh. And Holly Randall Udlimited. Holly Randall actually works within the industry. Her mother is Sus Randall, who was a pioneering adult photographer and later on film director was her, as was her father, Humphrey Knight, and Holly directs and shoot adult film and she's been doing that for twenty years, so you get to not only have her perspective as a woman in the adult industry, but she every week she interviews adult performers, directors, writers, and I've actually learned so much more about current adult stuff through her because I don't really watch current day adult films for the most part, to be honest, like it's just not really my bag.

But but I have like actually more of a curiosity just hearing these people, you know talk, you know, like it's made me realize I had some assumptions, not about I'm progressive too, but about the film, you know, and realizing now there are people out there that are wanting, that are trying to make cold changes, and I definitely like with me too. There's been a lot of great work at trying to really further solidify protection of performers, and which I think is wonderful if only all industries did that, because as much as people were like, oh, the sex industry, well, nobody gives a shit about how many how many people aren't making a living wage in this country. Are they. You know, if you're worried about workers rights, maybe look at a various people work in retail, retail or any service job that's blue collar, because a lot of us they make it a living right to you know, to be honest, you'd be making more money doing sex work, but just with less legal protection.

It's fucked right. Yeah, a lot of issues, but one issue is we don't have is the culture cast. Thank you so much Chris for having me on and ramble. I hope, I hope, I hope it was. It was as good for you it was.

Thank you for asking. Um I, um no. I enjoyed talking about this. You know, I was kind of worried when I was sitting down to watch it once I knew that it was adult in nature, because again I had to get over my own kind of reconceived expectations. And yeah, I mean like it was erotic and it was a lot, and I watched it several times, and um no, that was not me trying to make a fucking joke.

That was me being serious. Like I did watch it. I did watch it several times. But like I know, someone out this gonna be like, yeah, okay, funny guy. Um, but I enjoyed it a lot.

And again, it's it's it's it's an interesting film, like it's not it's not any one thing. And I think that's what makes it so interesting is it's very much uniquely someone's idea of something, and they executed it pretty well as far as I can tell. Oh, fearful, thank you. I'm so glad you got to go on Like we talked about Van Houghton's journey. That's just good to be like such a cool journey to like talk about this with you and this being your first like Semensanian film and be the first like explicit adult film you've talked about on the show.

Um, which was so cool. I'm glad I got to be the first co host for like I've talked about adult films, odd projection food. But I did not get to be on the first one. Oh there you go. I don't well, I don't think so.

Actually i'd have to ask Mike, maybe you well, I mean I don't I don't think it was that Well, you weren't on the episode when we covered Sonic the Vadge Hug, though I have only just recently forgiven Mike for that oversight. I love you, Mike, Wow, but I questioned your ways, sir. Well, hey, but I haven't made odd Sonic the Badge hug. You know, I I I think it's in a lot of ways. You know.

I don't know if you know when I will watch his next films, but I I'm interested to also see kind of where his other films go from here Steven Sadian's stuff, because again, like it's so unique and distinct and different, like everything else has got to be pretty kind of weird and strange too. I'm assumed. Oh, I mean it's um, it's obviously I'm a big fan now, I mean and it actually what's cool though, is each film is a little bit different because like with Cafe Flesh, it's it's very it's a lot darker, um, and it's brilliant. It's it's and that's really like Stephen getting to be a full on director because that's without Francis. But um, and then you know, if somebody's listening this and you know, and I get it, not everybody wants to watch explicit sex, I think, And that's fine, Like it's not like I do you know, I am like, if you're coming at it for a place where you're just like, you know, I'm not grossed out at seaman body, but this just isn't for me.

That's fine, right, But he did make but he did make a a sequel of sorts to uh the silent film Classic Cabin of Doctor Calgary called Doctor Calgary, released in nineteen eighty nine, is his first R rated film, and Monda maccabro has recently put out a gorgeous restored blu ray of it with plenty of amazing supplements. If you're one of the lucky duckies that get one of the first two thousand copies, you'll be getting my essay nice that is part of that release. And and yes, and there'll be more to come night dreams. The future of that getting proper release is a little more right now, cloudy, just because they're they're trying to find a good print to restore and trying to track down a theatrical like print, like a film negative of it's been hard, which is weird because the film did very well.

But but yeah, that's the thing is that people didn't even think in terms of film preservation that much back in the eighties with classic Hollywood movies. Much less adult films forget it. You know, people took you know, anything that considered to be made for the masses, especially working class masses, is usually considered the least salvageable of culture, which again is classes and bullshit, but it is, you know, it is what it is. Uh So, but let's hope because otherwise. Yeah, the VCX DVD, which I think the DVD might be out of print, m is but it's a VHS transfer.

There's no extras, and in fact there is they superimposed um more explicit images on the powerster like on the front of it and on the back that are not from the mixed It's yeah, it's gross. It's kind of like they obviously a lot of it older like a lot of the adult companies did not and do not see the value in their library and history. Unfortunately, the strip Picks is an exception. They do beautiful work and they do care like and that's Stephen Morowitz, who's amazing, and Steven cares like he is get he's getting the rights back. He has the rights back to his films.

Um, it's just what that James is just hopefully everybody knocker Wood by the print. Hey, if they found an uncut print of Metropolis and like, you know, Latin America a few years ago, right anything spots, check your addicts. But um, but yeah and uh but yeah. Thank you so much, Chris. This was so much fun.

Thank you for letting me preach, preach the word of Steven Sadie. No, I'm no, I'm glad you were able to join me, because you know, I was. I was also kind of concerned because again, like I don't I this is it seems like a world that I'm kind of unfamiliar with. So you know, now, I wanted to have you on because I knew how you know much of a fan of Steven Sadie and stuff you are, and obviously you know him personally, so figured it was kind of you know, peanut butter and jelly, So there you go. So yeah, I would say final thoughts, but I think we've both given them.

So on that note, let's take a break and we'll play a preview for the next sculpture cast. Olivia Uliasso, Tribuntaneity a quarks so close. Some rule works are not good. Mascot believe some deepot your names, some deep Tribuan com connect our text similar bit this a bit to us fund you not a song she quacking a blasts. Oh yeah, I'm sure.

It's sort of the next culture castle. We are going to be talking about the discreet charm of the Bourgeoisie, which is not an adult film, best I can tell um, and we will be joined by Bill Ackerman. H yeah, and just so oh Bill Ackerman's the best. And you know, Bill guest host an episode of Director's Club that has uh me and Justine, Um, Justine Smith Hope that's her name because otherwise I'm sucking it up. But she's great and it's from Canada.

And but we talk about the films of Steven Santian nice. Yeah. So so if you if you love this episode, definitely seek that one out too. So on that note, speaking of seeking things out, where where should people go to find the rest of the stuff that you work on, Heather? Where?

Well? I am on leap Tree. I finally got part of the being the Cool Kids club. So you can find me at link tree dot com, at mundo or not at bard slash motto, Heather. I also recently my essay on the Jane by Charlotte blu Ray is out and that's um Charlotte Gainsberg's really fascinating documentary on her mother, Jane Berkins.

If you're into French music, actresses and just great documentaries, please please check that out. It's over at Finnicker syndrome dot com. Nice. As for the things that I work on Weirdingwaymedia dot com, you can find a little show that Heather and father Malone, an hp CO host, called Noise Junkies over there, along with the Projection Booth, eighties TV ladies. All the good things that you've heard me mention a million times before, and I'll continue to mention that.

So there you go. As for this show, you can find us here and at Weirdingwaymedia dot com and on Patreon forward slash culture cast where you can go and kick us some money. If you're interested ten twenty fifty go check it out, be part enjoy do that thing. If you do it, you will get things in return. That is the way quid pro que works or the capitalist system, depending on how you want to look at it.

Heather, thank you so much for joining me. This was fun. Thank you now this is my pleasure and as always, we'll catch on the next episode.