Ghulam

We're in wait. Hello everyone, and welcome to the Bollywood Cinema Club, a podcast where we take a look at Indian cinema every other Wednesday. I am your host, Christashu of the Culture Cast, where this show was spun off from. I am joined by my good friend. You have heard her on here before, you have heard her on the Culture Cast.

You have heard her all sorts of places. You can find her over at Mondo Heather, Heather Drain, Good evening or morning wherever you may be a good Amir Khan to you as well. Oh, every day is a good Amir Khande. This is like the the unofficial American Amir Khan Fan Club, the fan of Club of two. Yes, but we are, we are.

We are growing in numbers soon enough, I think. I think the more we do this, we're gonna our numbers will be legion. We'll bring We'll bring more people into the Amir Khan sphere. On this episode of the Bollywood Cinema Club, we're going to be talking about nineteen ninety eight Amir Khan starring Ghulam which is translated to slave. So.

The film is directed by Vicrambot. It is written by Ajum Rajabali and its stars the one and only Amir Khan as Siddarth Sidhu Marathe, who is a well he's a boxer and his brother is his manager but also the right hand man for Ronnie Sing to the best name Ronnie Sing. Wait, wait, what's it? Didn't that see him on the great old operated Old Ronnie Country, Ronnie Good, old Ronnie Sing. I have I have a great uncle named Ronnie.

That is how southern that name is. But his name is actually ron Ronak Sing and he's kind of the kind of the mob boss, the boss of this little area in Mumbai. And well, wouldn't you know it, they run the Amir Khan and Ronnie Sing have some run ins together and well, Ronnie sang Hire is a Mirkhan to do some work for him and then take a fall, and well we'll be talking about it. This movie is apparently based on On the Waterfront, which I would not have guessed. Your reaction and my reaction are the same to that piece of information.

I think somebody's gas lighting. It's just like on the Waterfront. No, but yeah, so, Heather, this was the first time for both of us watching this film. Obviously, as is normally the case on this podcast. So tell me a little bit about your initial thoughts on Ghulam.

Well, Gulam and I was of course I love doing this show. I love talking about anything with Chris. This is which is why, like we talk about everything true and multiple capacities. I have only ever said no one time, but one doesn't even know it was. I don't want to talk about this because it was so bad.

Oh oh that was rough. Yeah, I don't think we'll ever find anything here that bad. I would hope no, no, and and honestly I shouldn't have pushed out on you, and I apologize for that, but but that was bad. And I mean I've talked about some bad shit, but this Gulab thankfully was not that bad. I will say my first thoughts.

I think, of the emir Con stuff that you and I've talked about and watched, I think it may be my least favorite. It's a little muddled, it's a little messy. But that said, I do think it's entertaining. Some of the musical numbers I think are very charming. A mere con, of course, I mean, he's such a star and he's so he's just he's just I think just like more and more.

It's not just because he's you know, charismatic, because of course he is. And actually that's sort of the thing We've talked about a lot of these movies, like Somebody, the Bollywood movies have just chock full of these great actors that are very charismatic and very watchable, and the cast is great in this This is no exception. But he's definitely he's so good at bringing the emotion in a way that is very tangible, even when some of the camera angles and editing is a little There's one scene in particular kit Too that I mean, it became kind of funny and it shouldn't have been funny. It was a moment that was not funny, but it was so like dramatic Prairie Dog. And it's like approach that it was a lot.

It was a lot, but but I liked it as a whole. But what was your what was your initial takeaway? Chris? You know, I actually I more or less agree with your sentiment that this might be the least favorite thing of American that you've seen that we've watched. And I would even go as far as to say it is my least favorite thing of Americans that I've seen in all of the things that I've seen from him, and it's not it Actually, for the most part, it doesn't have anything to do with him or any of the actors.

Really. I think for me, the narrative is just an hour too long. I mean it's two hours, and I mean this movie again, I you can listen to this show and know that I do not complain about the links of the movies unless we absolutely have to. This is one of those cases. This is a case where this movie is at least thirty minutes too long, and maybe even in almost an hour too long.

There are parts of this story that feel like they could be excised completely. Some characters Ronnie Mukerji in this movie is almost forgotten about in the second half of the movie in a way that like I wasn't expecting given her star power and her ability and who she is as an actress. But I was actually surprised at how kind of I felt it was. It was okay, but I just think, like the story that they're telling is not that interesting. No, and I mean on the waterfront, my ass like, I can't believe that that's what they're trying, Like that's what they're trying to claim.

This was like, my brains just broke when you told me that, like a little snaps, just kind of you know, it's like when a lightbulb dies. That's what just happened. I don't I don't see it. And also even the title, how do you go from on the waterfront to slave? And why is it called slaves?

Because he's the slave to Ronnie Sing for like maybe thirty minutes of this movie, Like he doesn't do that much for the like a mere Khan's character doesn't really do much for Ronnie Sing. He does like two things. He goes and beats up the cricketeer and then he takes the dive in that match and that's it. That's it. And even then like he loses.

Okay, I was gonna say this because the but you can't. I can't. I can't hold this any longer. So because of course we find out, you know, we get to see his his character our our correct the movie, I'm your Kan's character Sid. I kept calling him to Sid in my notes.

But because you know, when we first see him, you know, he's you know, he's being kind of like he's stealing from his lawyer, who's this lovely lady madame like Madame. I don't I can't remember what her actual name is. I know they call her Madam a lot madam, not Madame horrible pupp but Fatima. Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's great. I like that actress a lot.

She had good presence. And yeah, he's steal anybody from her. You know, he's just him and his friends are just kind of like kind of hooligans, but you know, seem fairly harmless. Other than stealing. They go out and party, et cetera.

I didn't even really see it was a boxer until a little bit further in the movie, because you see him doing exercises. But I've just thought, well, he's trying to get in shape, right, you know. And also I just thought maybe it was fan service so we could see a mere con work it out, I mean, also valid. Yeah, but you know, but we get to see him, you know, his character more and more just realized, like he he wants to be more honorable, and he has the flashbacks to his dead father who had this whole thing of teaching his son's like don't go with the current. You know, a real man goes against the waves and for just his own path, which is a good lesson.

But by the time we in the boxing match, he's told to throw it and there's this random child that comes up later in the movie. Who was that Fatima's kid? Who was that kid? I am so glad you brought this kid up. Yeah, I'm like, who the who was this kid?

Because at first I'm like, well, maybe they're showing oh this child the children love him and he's having to throw this match and he's disappointing them or whatever. But then he comes back up and I'm like, well, wait, did I miss something? Like who's this child? Who's this random little crying boy that loves said because I said Hartha different character, a mere CON's character, SID like, you didn't Okay, so you didn't know either. I didn't understand what was going on with that little kid.

I just you know. That's that's the thing about this movie. And you kind of mentioned some of the weird editing choices. The climax of this movie, I think is a pretty good example of what you're talking about with the editing choices. The editing choices are similar to another movie that I have watched for this show called Sarfa Rush, which came out I want to say around this time.

It's a mere con movie where he's a kind of like a no nonsense cop who's trying to take down some terrorists on the Pakistan India border. And it has the same weird editing that this movie does, where it's like they don't want to stay on a shot for too long, right, but they also don't show you anything in the edit to warrant even seeing that p of footage the way that they're showing it. And then on top of everything else, I don't know if you noticed this. The soundtrack, not the musical numbers. The soundtrack is uh, like it changes almost every scene, like in the climax, like it would like jump, it would be like da, it would be like, it'll be like it tonally would be jumping, to the point where it's like different musical pieces.

Oh god, you know, I didn't even think about that initially, but now that you're saying it, yeah, it's yeah. The fight scene almost felt like to me, it almost belonged to a different movie, though, like the climax of that movie. I don't know. That's again kind of the part of the problem is like we're kind of fed a little bit early on that. Okay, Yeah, Ronnie's character, he's like he's a bad guy.

At first I thought he was a bookie, to be honest, He's like he runs a travel agency, but he's a he's like a he is like running protection like the mob would I guess, yeah. But it's like, but he also seems like he could be like a possible almost like a slum word type, because he's trying to get this bill, you know, and he's being you know, him and his goons are being horrible to these local businesses that are on that block. And yeah, we see this one character, Harry, who is like this I'm trying to think he's like a social worker. Yeah, and who's this really noble guy who's like, you know, I don't like bullies and really tries to take a stand, ends up getting murdered by by Ronnie and thrown over a bridge like a train.

Holy shit. That was I will say that was a moment. Rob was like, I mean, I knew, I'm like, oh, he's on a bridge, something stupid's gonna happen. But but holy cow, uh you know. So, but it's like but then after that we kind of lose the whole social sort of angle.

I felt like with that with Ronnie No, it's more just like, oh, he's a bad guy. He killed somebody, fair enough, but but then it's like you almost forget that. It's like, yeah, there's like he's you know, he's mean, he's strong arming all these local businesses and working class, suppoor class people, and it's like we lose the social justice kind of element of it, and so until it's conveniently comes back up at the ending, right at the end of the yeah, and so it just, you know, that was weird to me, especially after all the courtroom shit where it's like and he literally threatens to kill sid in court in front of the judge and everybody, and they're just like get him out of here, like I love the judges, like you'll stop that.

It's like why, like he literally just I'm sure he's innocent. He just tided to kill somebody, the key witness, and it's you know, there are courtroom scenes, there are fight scenes, there are like slow moments, there's boxing scenes. Like this movie has everything shopping montages. Yeah, yeah, and it's literally a shopping montage. It has a really like really good musical number.

Colondala is a great song, like fantastic, it's super memorable. I again, it's stuck in my head for the rest of the day. That being said, it's three hours of this like it. It's so meandering, like it feels like it feels like we go all over the place just to end up at the logical conclusion of Ronnie and Siddarth having to fight each other, Like we didn't have to spend three hours getting there. Yeah, this is this is what happens when you put a movie that could be easily ninety minutes one twenty max at the very maximum, and make it three hours.

It's too much. Oh but with the boxing scene, So I'm I'm glad you brought that up earlier because I cannot I couldn't shake this. I don't know if this occurred to you, me, everybody listening. You guys probably know that mean Chris are huge pro wrestling fans, and we uh this match because when he's told to lose the match, even though he's doing great and he's kicking the other guy's ass, he does technically lose it, but he no sells it in a way that made me think of Chris, you feel with that match between Shawn Michaels and Whole Coogan, Yeah, we're bouncing around the ring like a pinball. That is one of the fun I'm so torn on that because on one hand, it's the most unprofessional thing you will ever see a wrestler probably do on that level, and that level of wrestler being that unprofessional too and that, but it's but it's but it somehow Also it's one of the funniest things.

I think if it was another wrestler, if he did that, the Roddy Piper or somebody who was a really good wrestler and like harismatic and not a racist, like you know, you got a terrible piece of shit on his own right, it would be more horrible. But the fact thing he's doing to how we get it just it makes me laugh. It's like, this is god damn dude, Like just he had one job, you know, he had one job. But I mean he's he's getting bligit beat the shit out of Hi sit Is in this match. But he literally like binds his arms and the ropes and just lets himself get walped and that doesn't get him d cute, I know, doesn't stop it.

Yeah, I see that. Confused to me, now, great, I'm not as into boxing as I am wrestling, but it seems like somebody would say something at that point. I would think, can't keep yourself up, man, can't support yourself. It's it's I think my issue with this movie kind of stems from those kinds of scenes where it's just like overwritten. They put a Mirkan's character through the ringer to what end?

Yeah, like to what end for him to just realize he shouldn't associate with people like Ronnie Singh, Like I don't understand a mir Khan's journey in this movie. I guess it's kind of what I'm getting at. He starts out as a kid in these slashbacks, and his dad outs his Indian Freedom Movement friends and they die, so then he kills himself. I guess, yeah, that was That's the thing. Like there was just so many things like this in this movie that if it had been I think if the script had been gone through one more drafting process and they kind of cleaned it up, like you have things that have a lot of potential, because I mean that's heavy, Like you know, when I think of somebody going out like that.

I think of the reflecting skin where that ye know that kids sees, you know, his father sets lights himself on fire and goes out that way. Which it's which that is an excellent and highly disturbing movie. But but that scene, especially especially because the father is this really nice guy, Like you're like, holy shit, like that's really fucked up and and this it just seems like, oh, and I mean somebody killing themselves should not just to listen, oh in general, like that's a heavy, heavy subject matter obviously, but especially to set themselves on fire while they're children and airpie like, well, that's what I didn't understand, Like was he murdered? Like was he? Did he do it to himself?

Like again, what's weird about this movie? Is it really for as long as this movie is, for being two hours forty two minutes long, it doesn't explain a lot, Like it doesn't give us moments with these characters that matter. It doesn't give us time with the characters to see their relationship really grow and feel real. A mir Khan and Ronnie Mukherjee. They they're great together when they're together on screen, which is like infrequently in the later almost two hours of the movie.

They're together what seems like a lot right out of the gate when they meet one another and they have like three songs back to back, including you know, the Kandala song. But then she just kind of disappears and she's just kind of hanging out and it's weird because again, Ronnie Mukerjie fantastic actress. She's in this movie because of who she is. She's a great actress, and they just sideline her. Why Yeah, and her chemistry.

I thought, I love her chemistry and interactions with a mir Khan Like, I thought they played off each other so well. That was actually, I think to me one of the strong like the biggest strengths of this movie was those two together when they are together, Like but yeah, it's like and that's that's the other problem is like you'll have characters kind of disappear for a little while. Yeah, like we have we introduced to her because she's hanging out with his biker gang Charlie Charlie, which that might be the best scene in the entire movie. That's a great scene. And I love that actor playing Charlie has like such a great old school kind of rugged handsomness, like he kind of reminded me of Oh god, is it George.

I'm a mess up to se Marlon Brando in on the Waterfront. No, no, George, is it George chakras Chick. He's in West Side Story, okay, and he's one of he's one of the sharks, and he's gorgeous, gorgeous man. But he kind of reminded me of him. He's almost got kind of like a Franklin Angela.

Yeah, kind of Franklin Gella meets. There's a rocketbilly singer who we just lost not too long ago, named Robert Gordon. He's got like that kind of energy, which is perfect for that kind of character, Like like, if this is an American movie, he would be played by a rocket billy guy or something right right right now, right, Oh totally, And and he's great. And yeah, the whole thing where they're playing chicken with the train that was really and I guess like a mer Khan did his own stunt with that ship, which is terrifying. But he didn't know how close he had gotten to the train until after he watched the footage.

Apparently, Oh my god, like fuck that that that scene is the best scene in the movie, but it is also the scene that like, there no way they would be doing something like that anymore, Like I wouldn't be having a Khan do it. That's no. I haven't feel like that since watching, Like when you watch them Jackie Chance, like older like Hong Kong film, some of the stuff he does where you're just like, oh my god, too, I'm glad you did it right, because the margin for arrow is affective or margin for error is essentially zero. So yeah, like when they show because they show that shot of him jumping out of the way of the train from two angles, which is like the one angle from behind is fine, but when they show it from kind of the on the train, it's harrowing to say the least.

Yeah, And then when he grabs him off the train tracks, it's just as crazy, Like it's just as close of a call Oh my god, I know it's it's in a sense like the silent error in Hollywood, you know, where people were stuntman died like every week or so, right because there were no like laws. Yeah, it's crazy, And but that's the thing that the characters they have this one character who in the Gang I trying to remember. He has the best jacket that says was it sexy Dixie? Yeah, so sexy Dixie. I'm assuming it's coded gay.

I mean the character seems pretty gay. Yeah. I mean he's got the I love his yellow highlights, and he's got that matching shirt at one point that matches his highlights. And he doesn't he have like a high pat high pitch like yeah, it's very it's very it's very effeminate. Yeah, it's not.

It's not it's not obvious or anything. Wink wink. Yeah. I mean I don't have him make out with the dude. No, no, But again, like they go as far as they can realistically go.

Yeah, that scene against the train, the train race scene won the Filmfare Award for Best Scene of the Year. When they used to do those so wow yeah so and then again like it makes perfect sense. I kind of wish that the movie was more like the first half for the first act, where it's like him and the bikers and her, and then it becomes like something else entirely that really is just not as compelling. I agree. Now, I agree.

I almost wonder if they had gone because I think is that we don't see Charlie and I can think it are we going to see it? Because gone for two thirds of the movie, because like Ronnie's character like Alicia, that's his girl, and a mere cons like sid is stup. Basically now that's his girl. Now there's no conflicts. We never see Charlie.

We don't even hear his name mentioned until almost towards the end of the movie. So they conveniently show back up as X Motorcycle King. Yes, but I did get to see Sexy Dixie. That's what I'm calling a character now, is Sexy Dixie. I understand why they introduce his character so that the Ronnie mccarage character could kind of makes sense in the context of the movie and how she kind of becomes part of American's life.

But to completely shuttle and just like disregard that other character and all those other characters felt like a missed opportunity because that as good as the actor playing Ronnie Singh is, which he's great, Sharrott sex Enanta is fantastic, it's just not very compelling. He's just a big gang boss. Like it's there's nothing compelling about him. There's nothing interesting. He's got a great mustache, where's jeans?

And he rolls hiss his button up shirts up like he's he's It's a good role, but the role of Charlie, I think is a much more interesting character and one that kind of has more of a connection to American's character and a conflict that would make sense. Yeah, well anything too is like with the care like the villain Ronnie Yo, he's really yeah. I mean he's just like big, big, angry dude. Which that's my other beef. Is that for him to have such a hot head about himself, like he's got a temper to say the least.

How is he this effective like organized crime member, because everybody knows like if you were, like if you're a master criminal, you keep that shit cool and you wait to where you can lay low before you like enact your vengeance. No, he's just screaming at people in the courtroom. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I will kill you, Like I'm gonna kill you, bro. He's just kidding. Yeah, he's just making a joke.

I love her. He's like he's he's slander. It's it's literally like the Rick James bit on The Comedian that I'm not a fan of anymore. Show right, I'm gonnattribute that to But the bit is with Charlie Murphy, and I love Charlie Murphy, so he's fine. But where Rick James is accused of rubbing his shoes into the couch and he says, I didn't do such a thing.

Why would I do that? Yeah, I remember rebbing bust shoes in his couch like this character basically does. He's like he's lying about me. I would never kill somebody. I'll fucking kill you.

Yeah. It's like why well, and like, if it were played for laughs, it would be funny, but it's not. No, it's played deadly serious, right, honestly? Like that That might be my biggest issue with this movie in general. It's like it's really like tonally all over the place because it's serious.

But then we're supposed to have this like love story between Amir Khan and Ronnie Mukerji, which like doesn't fit in the movie to the point where they forget about it because it's really the story about Amir Khan and his brother played by Raji Kapoor, Like that's really what the story of the movie is. That's where they invest most of their time. It feels like Ronnie Mukerji is just an afterthought who exists so that there can be musical numbers, which again perfectly fine. Yeah, song, the Condala song is fantastic. It's so good that I'm okay with there being musical numbers in this movie.

But the musical numbers are good, But that doesn't make up for a movie being three hours long and spinning its wheels for like forty five minutes. Yeah. Well, And the problem too, is like when it's paced that way, when characters are affected, you don't You're not hit hard like you should be by it. Like it's like when the brother character is spoiler uh now that we need spoiler lawers, I don't know when he gets killed, like it's supposed to be this big dramatic thing because you know, and it's like at that point you're not really you know very little about the brother other than okay, he's good with he's good with numbers. He has worked for this crime syndicate for pretty much most of his adult life.

He says some shitty things about their dead dad, and he kind of cares about his brother, and that's it. But you don't really get a sense of who he is as a human. You know, we don't really get to see I mean, we get a throwaway line about, oh well, without him we would be out on the streets, but that's it. We don't really it's like show, don't tell, We're told and not shown, and that's an issue. Yeah, and you know that the I think it's just the lack of focus in this movie that really just kind of causes it to stumble, because really it should have been closer to something like Dwar which is a movie that I watched last year, which was about two brothers on the opposite sides of the law type thing, because that's kind of where we're at with this.

At some point later in the movie, it's like one is a criminal and one isn't. And it's kind of rejected it completely, and like there's just not enough conflict between Amir Khan and anyone that really matters. Like the conflict is with Ronnie only because he killed his brother, that's it. Like he did what Ronnie asked constantly, he took the plunge, he beat up the cricketeer, like, he did what he wanted. So it's with his brother that's the problem, because his brother was, you know, not doing what Ronnie wanted.

But like, that's that's not interesting, that's not interesting enough not to spend again ostensibly two hours on. Yeah, yeah, no, it's it's just it's too big, because I do think, you know, I mean to be fair, it's definitely it is far from the worst movie I've ever seen, and you know that movie, I don't know, it's not it's it's entertaining enough, and you know, I do think it's like if you're a fan of like, especially if you're a fan of Amerkhan, it's worth seeing. But it's just kind of I don't know, it kind of leaves you a little. I get more frustrated when I think movies are decent, but I know they could be better, right, And if something if something's just terrible, then it's like almost like a lost cause kind of thing at the time, Like but there's promise there, but it just needs like if they if they would have tightened it up or even maybe get rid of a subplot or two, you know, just narrow the focus a little bit, right.

I honestly think that that's that is the biggest issue with the movie in general, is the lack of focus. Yeah, just a total lack of focus on the narrative, because again, I mean, you have a xboxer whose brother works for a crime lord. There are plenty of directions to go with that, plenty of directions. And if you're using on the Waterfront ostensibly as a starting point, you don't have to hu close to the plot of that movie. Not that it does, but it tries to.

I mean if it tries to, but I mean tries to in the most you know, basic sense. Frankly, Yeah, it's almost to the point where it should have just done something else, like use the on the Waterfront setup as your starting point, but go somewhere else. Yeah, on the Okay, I'm still just like, oh no, you know where we didn't We didn't get any sort of variation of that the most famous scene through the waterfronts, like I used to be a contender. I mean, people quote that movie they've never even seen it. It's that legendary.

There's nothing, there's nothing akin to that in this movie. That thing, and it's like I didn't even really see it was a boxer into like it's a way into the movie and he's supposedly like a boxing champion. That's that we're just kind of neglected to tell that until it's That's the other problem is I feel like there are details that the film just kind of neglects until it's convenient, right, Yeah, a plot contrivance says it were yeah, right, like oh okay, like his dad was lit on fire, like just it almost feels like his dad was lit on fire just so they could have that weird scene where he's like having a flashback while the guys being lit on fire during the celebration, which is so weird that comes out of nowhere and then is not then isn't even addressed until like an hour and a half later in the movie.

It's like almost again, like a lot of things this movie forgotten for like a why like you you could rereference it, and they kind of mentioned their dad, but like it's not even clear that it was their dad in any of this, like this is some weird flashback of a guy on fire, like all right, yeah, I mean they also do I think when Harry gets thrown off the bridge, it's in a cut and that was actually a little bit of good editing there where it's like, you know, know, yeah, he's seeing this guy that he likes get murdered and that's traumatic. But then the image of a man falling right office service, you know, it's trigger is triggering that memory. But uh, but yeah, the other thing is the character arc is so because you know, I think about when we talked about things of Hindustan, Amir Khan plays a character who's very morally in a gray area in a lot of ways, like he's kind of a little bit of a bad guy, a little bit of a trickster, but you like him.

He's a oh my god, he's such a puck of shark. And but but then we see him kind of, you know, develop a conscience and we realized, like, no, he's got redemption. But that's kind of played a little more effectively, actually a lot more effectively here, because you know, initially we're seeing him still money from the one person who's defending him, right, and then all of a sudden like, oh, I don't want to do that. I feel bad, and it's like, I mean, I feel like there needs to be a little more thought. How bad of a guy are you?

Hark? Yeah, oh he's you're real, but you're real bad. But I don't know, like, yeah, he should be much more morally gray much more morally gray, and the fact that he isn't. Were they afraid that, like by making him less likable that the movie would be less successful. I want, you know what I mean, Like I wonder that because like even in Thugs of Hindostan, like he's not he never goes full heel.

I guess he does at one point in the movie, but they like turn it around really quick, and it barely it barely works. It feels really it feels really contrived in that movie for a completely different reason. But I do kind of I do kind of have a hard time taking a Mirkhan as a as a bad guy, like he's so lovable, I mean he doesn't. Yeah, Like there's I don't know, Like, look, I watched the fair amount of a Mirkhan movies with you, and then I've watched a fair amount, you know, on my own, and there's not a single role that I've seen him in where I'm not like he elevates this role by being in this movie. But sometimes this movie being one of the cases, Things of Hindostan being another one, it's like they don't know what to do with him, which is strange to me because it should be readily apparent what to do with a mere con.

It's a mere con. Come on, yeah, yeah, Like you can't think he's to the Kingdom, like he's one of the he's one of the three cons. Like there's there's nothing that I don't think he can't do as an actor. And this movie was rather well received. I mean, we're kind of in not in a minority, but this movie was nominated for six Filmfare Awards, including Best Film, Best Director, Best Actor.

Like I mentioned it one best Scene, which I think totally deserving of obviously. Oh yeah, but it's I can't help but wonder like would a different actor have been better in the role, just so it would be more believable for him to be a little bit more of a gray area character. Again, you know, I don't know every single Indian actor out there in the world, but Amir Khan is just too darn nice. That's a good question. No, I really liked that question because now I'm thinking and I'm not I am.

As I've said before many times, I'm very much a neo fight to the world of Indian cinema, which is why I love doing this, because you are helping me brought in you know, brought in my horizons and get educated, which I highly encouraged anybody listening this, especially if you're like me and you're like just getting into this please, Like this is such a rich world. It's it's amazing. But when I think about, yeah, because that kind of character, like with American cinema, you would see probably at its height in the seventies, I would say, seventies and eighties Xboxer X whatever. Charles Bronson would have played that character, or even in a more low key film like you would have had somebody like maybe like like a Ben Gazara or s Well.

Stacy Keach plays an xboxer in a Fat City, which is an excellent movie and I highly recommend. But Stacy key, I mean, these are character actors who aren't you know. I mean I think Stacy Keas is very handsome, but yeah, I mean he's like handsome in a very kind of weird masculine guy who's been through some shit kind of way, like not not like Puckish Rogue, right, which I'm stealing that phrase now and I'm gonna put it in everything. Chris Rogue. Yeah, be like, how was that?

How was that slice of cake? I think it's so good. Even a puckish rogue would like it. I would watch A Midsummer's Night Dream with a mir Khan as puck fuck yes, oh my god, I am tab or even Rogney Khan's playing uh the King Oberon, Yeah, I would. I would watch That'll take my money.

Yeah, I would take those British turds to task and start adapting their ship and making money off of it. Oh hell yeah, it'd be a lot better than that version with Michelle Pfeiffer. I've never seen. I wouldn't. I've only seen clips of it, but I mean, come on, it's uh, it's interesting.

I would think someone more like Selman Khan would be in the role of this movie. Again, like it's unbelievable. It's not unbelievable, but it's hard for me to take a mir Khan seriously as a less than straight arrow, like I imagine he could bend a little bit. But nobody watches movies with these actors Shahru Khan, Salman Khan, Rajni Khan am top. Nobody's watching those movies to see them be the villains unless they're cast as the villain, and that is the sole purpose that they're in the movie is to be the villain.

But then that's the highlight of the movie is that they're the villain in this movie. Amir Khan's character could have been played by anyone. He elevates the role, but it doesn't feel like a role that is uniquely for Amir Khan, or that Amir Khan is bringing something to like with a movie that I just watched PK. Where it's like nobody else could have played this role, nobody else Amir Khan and that's it. It makes perfect sense, and this could have been anybody.

That's how That's how unexciting and kind of just workman Like the script and the dialogue feels to me, it's just not It's like, it's not that they're not trying, it's that they're just not doing anything past the bare minimum. Yeah. Well, and and the thing too, it's like we don't really they don't even have the character himself make a decision, Like when he's like he's hesitant to do the whole thing with the cricketer, and it's like, Okay, that's a step in the right direction, but then when we see him with the cricketer, he has no problem, beating the shit out of him and threatening him. Like that's where you would have that character. To me, like show a hesitation in the interaction, right and show a little bit like, oh God, I don't want to do this, but I don't want to get you know, my brother in trouble.

I don't want to get in trouble, you know. And we don't see any of that. The whole gag about the Chinese bomb thing, I think was that was clever. That was like, it's from a different movie, Like tell you know what I mean, Like it feels like when he's being kind of cheeky, it feels like a different movie like this movie is. And I we've talked about this before with other Indian cinema, you and I have it.

Sometimes these movies are Masala films, like with Muthu and it's like tonally all over the place. This movie's not that, but it does have moments where it's tonally weird and doesn't kind of mesh with the other parts of the movie. The musical acts in this movie really stand out as good as they As good as they are, they stand out in a movie. This isn't that kind of movie. In a lot of ways.

Yeah, you know, like Condola is a great song. I it's it's already on my Spotify playlist. Say that's so much. I liked it, But it could have been in a It should have been in a better movie and a movie that was a romantic comedy or a romantic film, because it just doesn't work in this It's too upbeat, it's too poppy, it's too much fun for a movie that's taking itself as seriously as this one is. Yeah, that's an excellent point.

I agree. And actually it's because you mentioned Muthu and earlier we were talking about the editing with this film and just how I mean, you'll have quick cuts but they don't really work right. And movie was a film that, for all of its weirdness, it's glorious, amazing, almost divine weirdness of it. And I still am thinking about that movie. It's so good.

And there's like, right, I mean, you'll have a quick cut to geese like they're looking in on the action and move through, which I'm meant to bring up in our episode. It was like it's almost like, you know, they'll be cuts to animals like they're watching fights or whatever. And but but it adds to it, It adds to sort of the great sort of like flavor of the film. It's just this weird, amazing, magical gumbo of a movie or a basala of a movie. But yeah, but that kind of magical sort of weirdness doesn't work for a film that's supposed to be gritty, right they take, Yeah, I mean movie was almost like it's not a fairy tale, but it's almost feels like when at times just because it has that, it's almost like magical realism, right, you know where this that is allegedly based on on the fire So you say, I'm I'm sorry that's still cracking me up.

And also like what really, I guess I mean again, I didn't make it up. Like I'm as shocked as you are to hear someone go this is based off all on the water from like, yeah, he's an ex boxer, I guess, and there's a crime, boss, I guess. Like that's it. We do see a water front several times. Several times they are on a waterfront at one point.

Is that what you mean? You mean? I the only thing this thing was a character be Like, I can't believe we are on the water front me either yes or we surely are, let us go somewhere else. We needed a titular line. That's what we Hey, that's the name of the movie.

Yeah, let's see what you did there. I don't know what really could have fixed the movie for me, but I really feel like a mir Khan kind of underserved, underutilized. It's not that he's not right, it's just what makes this role special? What does he bring to this that makes it special, or what does this role have that allows him to do his thing? Neither like a Mirkan does the best that he can with this movie.

That's like he's great, but you can hear him read a phone book and it'd be great. So would watch Yeah, Like that's that's that's the issue with something like this. It's just it's not trying hard enough to differentiate itself from the other. God knows how many action movies that Amir Khan had in the nineties, because I've already seen one. It's called Sarfurush and it's better than this movie by heads and tails, because it understands that action and comedy work well together.

Action and romance not so much like I don't like action romance movies are kind of a dime a dozen quality wise. Yeah, and this is not really an action movie. Like there's very little actual action in this movie or set pieces. It's like three is what it feels like. Yeah, yeah, I mean that's the thing.

It's like, you can do a hybrid, but it's like any kind of a genre hybrid, like for it to be good, you have to make sure that the ingredients are all fully mixed together and that there's also at least one or two elements that make it stand apart, so you just don't end up getting us this like sluice of both genres where it's just muddled, you know. And I think this movie and its worst moments is just kind of bad. It's just this sort of awkward mixture that doesn't quite work. And you know, which is too bad because I mean the cast, and that would be like I would recommend this movie, like if you're a fan of the major cast. You know, even though some of them, well everybody could have been better utilized, and some of them really could have been better utilized.

Everybody's great. I mean I liked the actor that played Harry. I mean, we don't get a whole lot of him. But I thought that guy was great, Like I thought it was very likable, very warm, and I mean it's not like we get a lot of that actor or that character on screen, but he did a really good job of making you like, yeah, this guy, you know, this guy gives a shit like this is a good you know, And that's not an easy thing to do when you're not given a lot as an actor, especially when you're on screen for like quit twenty minutes, like you know, to make that stand out. But I mean the cast, the cast are certainly great.

It's just it's so weird though you can ever tell the how the dice will role with how films are perceived, because when we talked about things of Hindostand, which isn't a perfect movie, and you know when we both kind of went into the you know, the flaws and strengths of that one too, but that movie was, like to this day not is very dicey as far as how it's received. But I still think that's a better movie than Ghulam, because I mean I was very there are times where I was almost not bored with Gulam. But it's like it was a little drag like and even the drag your moments, and thanks of Hindusty, there's still something entertaining that you can kind of like grab onto, Like there's some color, there's something going on, and and you definitely get a lot more depth I think with those main characters than you do here.

Yeah. And yeah, obviously that movie has Ami tab bak Chin and which is kind of unfair. But at the same time, like this, nobody in this movie is turning in a bad performance. It's just they're not being given anything interesting to do. It feels strangely pedestrian.

Yeah. I mean if this was like a triple bill, like if we were doing an old school sort of like triple movie, this would be the B or C picture. Yeah, probably the C picture. Yeah, Like this is not and it sucks because like when the cast is as good, like man, these men and women are kicking ass, like give them what they deserve, give them something that they can like really like get their myths on. But but it's still better than the unnamed Netflix movie I refuse to which is not which which is not well regarded that it shouldn't.

Ben is considered a failure in its own right. It is a failure. It's sort of It's like imagine being the worst version of herpes. We haven't even seen it. You can't bury a movie you've never seen.

I just did. It's an American American turned in a performance of a lifetime. He always has raves American and Ed Heather and Chris. Yeah, you know, I don't know if this you know, and probably law of averages it has to be. But at some point I'm just going to start running into just average movies.

And you know, I've run into a couple now. Not every Indian cinema film I have seen now is as good as they once were when I was watching them. You know, Intermittently, I have seen more Indian cinema in the last eight months than I have seen in my entire life. But recently I have been running into these kind of just okay movie. This is now, this is the second, no this, I guess this is the Yeah, this is the first one.

I guess this is the first just okay movie because I like Thugs of Hindostan a lot more than I like this movie, like a lot more. Yeah, completely same. Yeah. But I think, though, Chris, I think that's a good sign as far as like you're like you are already like so well versed, Like every time you mentioned something, I'm always like I need to write this down. Like it's like you're you're my Yeah, you're you're my sense with this world.

Yeah, and I love that. So that's you know, but that I mean that typically means you're starting to get a really good education because think about it, most Americans that only really watch like major American films and aren't really cinophiles, you know, like we are. They even if they see something they don't like, it's not like they have the vocabulary to be like, oh, this is a beer c picture, right, you know what I mean, like or oh it's The issues I had with this movie was because of you know, they were trying to cross pollinate many too many things, Like I mean, they're it's weird. But I mean there are a lot of people that for filmed it's just like something to do and then it's just like they're done.

It's like mini golf. It's like it's like it's like a big back. Yeah. And well, I mean there are things in my life and in your life that I don't put a lot of thought into that there are people that that's their entire livelihood, right Like, Like think about cooking, Like, I don't know how much you'd like to cook, but there are people that cook for a living, right yeah, it's like what we do. Like there are some people that cook at Chilis, and there are some people that cook at Texas Roadhouse, and there are some people that own their own restaurants and make their own menus and source their own ingredients, right Like, it's just it's just the level of which you want to participate in the hobby.

I am with you. I have a hard time not being critical even when I'm watching something that I'm not talking about for a podcast. So it's almost unfair at times to watch things that I'm not talking about. But at the same time, like you just said, it helps me further my own dialogue and my own history and beliefs and thoughts and feelings and ideas on film by just watching more of it. That's how you get better as a film watcher, is just watching film and then talking about it ideally or at least thinking about it critically, even if you're just thinking about it to yourself, which I mean again, that's kind of an echo chamber of one.

That's what I always worry about and that's why I try to always bring in some people that are even less cinophiles than me, because we do kind of find ourselves in an echo chamber from time to time. Oh but we're the best echo shaper I know. But at the same time, it isn't. It's totally There is part of this that's totally an echo chamber. Like go ask go ask five people that we know, Hey, do you like Michael Bay movies?

And they're probably all going to say no. For the most part. Maybe they'll say, like, I liked this one, and we might all agree on the same one. But there are more people who like Michael Bay movies than there are who don't, because those movies are insanely successful. Like again, becomes a weird question because, like you said, if you're just consuming it like you would consume a bag of potato chips, like and dislike is less of a issue you care about it more of a like, Oh I like barbecue chips over plane chips, but I'm still eating chips, you know what I mean.

Like they're just selecting, but they're ultimately just selecting mainstream media. That's, like you said, not challenging. Not really doing anything other than appealing to as many people as possible, which nothing wrong with that, But I want more, you want more, and more is not going to necessarily be more of the same I'm talking and I know you're talking more of something different, more unique, more diverse offerings of films. And yeah, I'm glad I watched a movie like this one that's not as good as the other Indian cinema movies, because watching amazing movies over and over and over again with nothing to say but praise also gets kind of old, right, well, and that's actually now it's like keep right in my mind, because that's that's the other thing is I think it's good, Like it is good to watch all kinds of different movies at different allies sometimes because like if yeah, I mean, if you all only saw great movies, then you would you'd probably maybe wouldn't even maybe not appreciate them as much.

Like you know, it's like, sometimes it's good to see something that's just okay because it makes you know, it makes the next like experience you watch being like, oh, you know, like you can evaluate it a little different, you can see it with a little of fresher eyes and well, like we said about Thugs of Hindostan right here, this movie made us both appreciate Thugs of Hindostan immensely more, I have to assume, right like you appreciate Yeah, I appreciate it. Yeah, I liked it too, But I like it now thinking about it even more because it does what this movie doesn't, which is give a mir khan something interesting to do and hitch the wagon to a mir khan, like they make a mir khan the focus of that movie.

Not saying they don't hear, but it made me appreciate that movie a lot more by watching this movie, which isn't a bad thing for either movie, frankly. And again, this isn't a bad movie. It's just not as good. And again, good is so subjective, like my good? What is good mean?

Even? What? What is the definition of a is? Like? That's I mean, that's what I you know what I mean?

Like good? Good is so subjective. This movie was immensely successful. It was seventy two million and made two hundred and forty two million. That's a lot.

That's a lot of scrilla. Yeah, that's some mad squilla. Our friend from the uh, our friend from the Internet community head their drain. Yo, what up? You guys?

Got that mad scrilla? Hey, Kurd, it's sweet. I heard its sweet trill. Hey hey, because well, I thought it would be funny if I said it, and it was so yeah, yeah, and I do. I didn't want to stress.

I'm not. I mean, I probably can be, it's not, but I try not to be. And there's something nothing wrong. Like you said, knob about movies. That's what we love.

Okay, If we're not allowed to be movie snobs, what are we allowed to be snobs about? If that's not the thing that we actively spend I spent seven and a half hours of a twenty hour day watching movies, what else can I be a snob about. I don't think i've here as more as like we are passionate and we give a shit, right, and I don't. I don't think there's ever any shame with that. No, my I care less about money versus I do time spent on things, and I don't want to spend time on things that aren't good unless I'm going to do something productive after the fact about it.

Agreed. I agreed, And that's you know, And that's the thing too. Is that I feel like with film, with any kind of art form, like even well there's exceptions, but even with things that are okay, I mean even with say Gulab, which is realistically it's fine, it could be a lot better. It could be a hell of a lot worse. Right, But even with a B or C picture, A lot of people work their asses off to get this fan making making.

Anybody who's even tried to do like I do, no budget d I Y movie, just trying to get two people that aren't you or a podcast, as you know, Chris, Trying to get people that you can't really that you can barely pay, if not pay, to do anything at all, and have them devote their time and energy is hard for a movie on this level. Obviously people are getting paid, but even then, like so many working parts have to come together to make a movie, especially a big budget movie where you do have a cast. I mean the extras alone. There's a ship tone of extras in this movie, especially in the climax of the movie. Yeah, and you know, so it's like I have respect for the process even if even if the end result isn't great, somebody worked hard.

I think that's the thing I think the only time movies really made me mad is if they have all the elements, Like I get more way more made a big budget movies because I'm like, Okay, you guys have access to the box of one hundred and twenty crayons and you're acting, and yet you're you're that kid that put them all up your nose and didn't draw jack or shit with it. You know, that's why Santa Claus is sack and you're not opening it and taking it. Yeah, now you have Santa Claus is nuts stack. You don't have a skift sack and that's yeah, yeah, that's sack a right, It's uh, I completely agree with you. It's like you have access to essentially a mystery box like unlimited funds.

You have an unlimited ATM and this is what you came up with. Again, but it's decision by committee. It's decision by you know, I make sure I don't offend people in China. I don't make sure I don't offend right wingers in the United States, make sure I don't offend you know whatever, X, Y and Z. And it's like, oh my god, like maybe just don't worry about it.

Like but then you can't because if you don't, you don't make as much money, which is why Avengers made fucking whatever the billion goodillion dollars because it was the least offensive move. Apparently, Avengers Endgame is the least offensive move be of all time. I wish people would call it that. If be wonderful, They're like, why do you like it? It's the least defensive movie.

Yeah, it was clearly the least defensive movie because the most people agreed to go watch it, and nobody was apparently disappointed enough to not sell other people to go watch it or tell them to not. So everybody agreed collectively, we should all go watch this movie, which means nobody was offended by it. I'm offended by They're not offending. I'm offended, but I look at it. I have no issue with Marvel movies, but I do come down in the same camp that you do, which is you have access to all this and this is it?

Like yeah, because I know Vick Rumbot would love to have a budget of five hundred billion dollars to go and make whatever movie with amir Con. He would love to, but that's not what he had. He had seventy two million, and that's what he did, is he made this movie. You know, I would love to have a crazy ass budget to go make whatever the fuck I wanted, and I would make whatever the fuck I wanted. So Oh my God, I my five hour rock and roll surf rock musical involving Tom Waits as a ladies man that fights a devil cult and You're a trash Vampires would come to Fruition with special appearance by Radu.

Oh my God, yes, blushing, Heather's blushing. Everybody at the idea of Oh my God, and the flesh Tones like the seminal American beat Hitsville makers from New York City ladies and gentlemen would also be in it. I would make the most rad movie. I mean, I'm not saying it would make sense, but it would be No, it would be great. You're right, it wouldn't be good.

It'd be phenomenal, right, and Rod do it it got yeah, and Tom Waits. It wouldn't have to But that's the thing, like, ultimately it doesn't even have to be good. It just has to be the movie you want to make. Well. But that's the thing I think when somebody makes the movie that at least they're impassionate about.

And even if it's like you know, because there's a lot of silly things, I love them of you Blood Diner, Like I'm not somebody that's like, oh, it has to be at house, like I love. I love a movie if it's interesting and if I like it because it is ultimately everybody's taste is subjective and fairness. But if when you've see that, at least one person on board it had fun with it and it was something they genuinely are passionate about. And that could be an experimental art film, it could be a beach party movie, it could be whatever, but it's at least one person, one major entity that's creative and is just putting your heart and soul into it. I feel like you can tell and that will make it.

Even if it's a mess, it's a fascinating mess. Like I love Alex Cox is Straight to Hell, which a lot of critics hated because they were like, this is self indulgent. It's a hot mass. It is self indulgent, and it is a hot mess, and it's fucking glorious because Alex Cox had fun. Everybody had fun.

Everybody was doing something so different that they just wanted to do and just make the weirdest musical western crime they put and it's great, you know, I you know, I'm fine with hot messes as long as they're entertaining. I think that's the problem that we have with Ghulon is that there are parts where it drags. It's like, if you're going to be messy, make it a hot mess, don't make it a lukewarm mess. Honestly, just you know that for me is the ultimate kind of takeaway for this movie is that it's just it's it's too long in the tooth, just way too long. It's just it's an hour too long.

If this movie we're an hour and forty minutes, I don't think we'd have nearly as many complaints. I agree, No, I agree. If you could make a nice, lean film out of the elements that you have in the story, two hours, even like could push it to two hours, and I think you'd be fine. It's just there's forty minutes here that feel so unnecessary. And it's not the musical numbers, it's just every it's kind of everything else.

The musical numbers aren't bad, they just they don't need to be in this kind of movie. But that's fine. They're here, but they're they're good, so it's okay. But everything else is just kind of various degrees, various shades of mediocre. Yeah yeah, I agree that, but you know what the positives.

We got to see a mir Khan gyrate at one point, he does like a little bit of pelvic hip motion in one of the dance summers, and he is shirtless at one point, and uh now I'm not trying to be that bitch. Okay, I'm just saying that's a fine man. Heather's just saying that she's a fan, but you're not. Oh I am as well. Hell yeah, I'm more of a critique rochean fam as we've already discussed, have we have we We haven't watched one of his movies yet.

We should We should take me on that journey. I showed you the beginning of Doom too, where he's singing and dancing, and hell yeah, maybe maybe that's maybe that's where we should pivot. Maybe we take a break from a Mirkhan. Maybe this was a sign. I mean, hey, there's plenty, there's plenty of American there's a Forrest Gum.

Oh, we're not one that you. Oh my god, No, we'll do that is the one hundredth episode of this show, and it'll be you, me and Mike White and Father Malone. Oh my god, Okay, I will do it. That'll be in four years. One hundred episodes would be like yeah, two and three, three and a half years, twenty six episodes a year.

That's what we'll be living in our communal castle. Yeah, all of us, the weirding Way media. Yes, media castle. I love it. That would be.

Oh my god, we're all we all have like matching like paraphernalia, Like this is a cult. You're describing a cult. Well, as long as you don't have to call us god, I'm cool with it. No, No, we have a giant painting of a beer con. I thought we have a giant painting of Mike White.

We probably shaid. Actually, Actually, my cast my favorite quote ever about bad movies, and I agree with him, is that Mike once said that the worst movie in the world, the only people who've seen it is the filmmaker and their mother. That's fair, it's true. I love that. I love that comment also, but it's I think it would be the worst.

Wouldn't the worst film in the world be the film that only the filmmaker saw because he was so ashamed at himself he didn't even want to edit it. I agree. It never even gets to the editing bay, just shut it down, shut it down, denies that he because his friends were like, were you making a movie? No, somebody else you must know? Yeah, yeah, somebody else not named me.

Yeah, and then they like throw an object to distract him and run away. Look the full Moon is that Brad do the face? I am hired from Full Moon Pictures? So Species trilogy. Oh my god, I fault of that every time, like Brad do so Heather.

Final thoughts on Gulab My final thoughts at Gulamb. I love the strinks which are this cast, especially American. Uh. The music's great. The musical well, the music musical numbers is great.

I it made me, It left me wanting more as far as like I wanted it to be a better film and maybe in some ways almost probably a different film than it is. It's it's okay. Ultimately, I don't know. I don't want to shift on it too much because it's not terrible, but it's it's just it's fine. It's like that.

It's just like a it's like a it's just like a sandwich. That's okay. I'm gonna say, okay, sandwich. I couldn't I couldn't agree more. Yeah, it's it's okay.

Again. The worst Indian cinema film that I've seen is still better than most films that I've watched. Like, this is the worst Indian cinema film that I've seen. Oh, that's not bad, right, exactly exactly, Like it's it's just a little long and it doesn't use the actors, but that's really main complaints. And you know, and like it being overly long makes it nearly disjointed.

So of the things to fix those are not very labor intensive. Just a second draft or a third draft. Maybe don't just go with your rough draft. Not that I think they did, but some of the ideas in the movie just don't land. So yeah, I, like you said, I've seen better, and I haven't seen worse Indian cinema wise, But if this is the worst that I've seen so far, like you just said, could could could be batting worse than this, So oh my god.

Well, Cason, one of the last American films I watched for in twenty twenty two. For podcast had me so irritated by the end of it I literally threw a pillow at the TV. Yeah this ain't daft man, No, no, this is nowhere near that bad. So ahead there until the next time you joined me to talk about Indian cinema. Where can people find you on the Internet, Well, you can find me over at my website, which is Mondo Heather dot com.

You can also find me on social media that's not TikTok because I'm just not on TikTok, but Instagram, Twitter and occasionally even Facebook under at Mondo Heather. As for me, you can find me on the internet at Weirdingwaymedia dot com, which is where you can find this show and twenty plus other shows hosted by folks like Byself, guests like Heather, and guests like and hosts like You've heard on this show before, So that's where you should go to find the podcast you should be listening to right now. As for this show, Bollywood Cinemaclub dot com Bollywood Cinema Club on well, Bollywood Cinemaclub dot com, like, rate and review on iTunes and Spotify. That's all you've got to do to help us out. Tell your friends, watch more Indian cinema.

That's what you should be doing, because that's what we've been doing. Heather, thank you so much for joining me as always, and we'll catch you on the next episode at mult