Episode 4: Please Hold To My Hand

We're Weird. Hello everyone, and welcome to a Mushrooms and Men another The Last of Us podcast. I am one of your two hosts, Chris. I am joined as always by He's the He's the Early Chris, Joel Chris. My floor's breathing.

What does that mean? Oh my god? When when will the bloaters show up in this show? Ladies and gentlemen, you got your answer. Oh my god.

We're gonna be talking about a little show that's on HBO. If you stumbled onto this podcast, well you know we're gonna be time. We're gonna talk about the fourth episode of the first season of HBO's The Last of Us. So this episode aired February fifth, and yes it is still talking all about the video game. And this is a this is what would you say?

This is about our three of the video game, now hour three and a half and the hour four of the video game. I mean, well, we should tell the viewers whatever the podcasts people's whatever you are, mushroom people, mushroom beds. I think I think the proper term is mushroom tattoos um, mushroom stags room. This is all we're gonna be doing for the next hour just talking about mushrooms. Yes, we're talking about a point in the game where in the game.

You're playing it now. Yeah, I am playing it, but I'm playing the game now, not playing ahead. I have stopped playing where this episode, Like I said, if this game is if the show is following the game as closely as it seems to be, which I think it has been, I stopped playing around the part where this episode ends because I didn't realize certain certain things would happen in certain characters would be met. So, yeah, when we last left our intrepid duo, they left Bill and Frank's house and they're traveling to Wyoming, and this is what happens when you Okay, first off, I just want to ask you something because it bothered me in the video game, and it bothers me here and it bothers me. Chiefs fans.

I do hate Chiefs fans, but that's a different story. Um, these are all just Chiefs fans that this is. This is what happens when when they lose the Super Bowl, zing, Zing Here's the thing. Okay, I've never been to Pittsburgh, Okay, and that's where this originally takes place in the game. Takes ways in Pittsburgh.

I have, however, been to Kansas City a lot, so I could tell you with absolute certainty a couple of things. There are plenty of ways to get around Kansas City that don't require you to drive through downtown Kansas City. I had a problem with it in the video game. I have a problem with it here. It's a fucking contrivance for them to lose the car.

It's fine, I get it, but nobody in their right mind would actually drive through a city with a car, knowing what Joel supposedly knows both in the video game and in the show that oh, I've killed people before, I've done this, Then why would you willingly take a golden item that nobody has, like a car and go into the middle of a city. It bothers me in the game, and it bothers me in the show because it feels very contrived. Um yeah, I mean part of it is just an ad dramatic tension. I guess the one thing you could look at. Okay, so let's let's do a do a quick recap, right, So you said Joel and Elliot on the road they're trying to get in the game, they go to was like Pittsburgh, and this time they're in kids City and they're further west than they are, yeah show or in the game, And I think the only purpose for that is just like the creators was saying, just timing wise, it just made more sense with me further west, like there's no there's no real well, I think in the game and the game, they in the game, they have what how many hours does it take to complete the game?

Like sixteen hours maybe in the show one right, and the show only has ten ten, so there has to be things that are dropped four time and up until now, I mean we're still even with them changing the city, they're still operating within us a close timeline, a close approximation of the timelines in the game. Yeah, and so they make it west. Ellie's you know, kissing her gun whatever. She's got the guns, she obviously knows how to use it. She you know, she takes them out the chamber.

I don't see this character being the character at the second game at all, Like it's this is gonna be a real stretch because I know in the second game how Ellie is as a character, and I don't like, is there really many years have many years best yes anyway, not twenty, but many have beast to the point where she's a different character entirely anyway, So um yeah, and so they basically it's a it's a lot of this is kind of the point you wanted, though, you get a lot more of that Joel and Ellie bonding and like it's fantastic, really like firming up the relationship. And then yeah, so then they end up ambushed, um with you know, classic classic you know, oh my leg hurts, please help me, Please stop your car, we need your help.

And then yeah, it's like the game, just like the game. But the one thing you talk about, the contrivance the difference is in this, like I think he's operating assumption that Fedra is around, because when they're going through the city, they realize that, oh shit, the q zs like right, the doors have been blown open, which means things aren't operating as they're supposed to be, which I do appreciate that they that in this they kind of say, Okay, it was you operated under this assumption of something being X. And it's why that's not in the video game at all, in the video game, but in the video game it's a lot more in the video game, it's it's a lot. It seems like more because in the video game to get to the point where the highways blocked off and they have to go off the highway, so they're already into the city.

Here, it's like, this feels like such an idiotically conscious decision. But again, like they do give themselves that little a little wiggle room. Again, I still find it hard to believe because Joel is not a fan of Pedra. The last time he interacted with Pedra, he literally killed one of them. So they've been doing well enough on their own.

It's just odd to me that they would go out of their way to go into the city. I just do kind of find that a little hard to believe, even with the show, because even in the show, they are operating rather logically. I feel like, I mean, even to the point where Joel is spreading glass on the ground to make sure he gets you know, if someone comes in the night like they're not operating, like they don't know what they're doing. When it comes to the writing, it's just I would have hoped because when I was playing that part in the game, I was like, I really hope they find a better way to get them into the city to have all of this happened. That doesn't feel kind of so like like how Varis felt in the last season A Game of Thrones, where it's like, this is against character, this is your character has been so smart and calculating and careful, and then all of a sudden, he's like, take this letter that says I want to kill Danari to somebody, and it's like, oh, you would never do this, and it's like smart characters acting stupid to further the plot.

It's just that's just a tad lazy writing. That's it. That's and again it's just a little lazy. But that's fine. I mean what happens because of it is entertaining.

And I'm never going to complain about Melanie Lynsky being in anything, even though I found out she was in Two and a Half Men, which is a yeah, dude, she was. Charlie Sheen's like, I'm sorry, that's not my I'm sorry, that's not my point at reference for her. Thank God. I guess Heavenly Creatures is where I know Melanie Lynsky from, and I was excited to know she was in this show because she is such a presence. But how closely is this hewing to the game, because, like I said, I'm not at this point in the game.

So yeah, So basically Melie Lynsky's Catholic character is like they've over thrown Fedra and they're like these group kind of basically people that yet very tribal protect their own but do the people written on the side of their car, which I felt may have been a step too far towards something that they weren't intending it all right, January six, I see you. I'm not saying, man, all I'm saying is it seems like that's what they're saying, is all I'm saying. So I think this storyline is generally Actually did a quick like wikipedter to refresh my memory has been a long time, so I played the game is huing like the Sam and Henry thing is from the game, but we actually never saw the leader, so like we're now pursuing them.

Yeah, we said there's people pursuing them. We never saw like the puppeteer, So like it's interesting, and I think Neil Druckman's and Craig Mazon were on record saying like one of the advantages is now they can flesh out some of the villains and like they want to give people a why. And Neil Drugmans is something interesting. He's like he's like every person's doing something. It's like there's very few like truly evil people or that are doing things because they think they're evil.

They're doing it as like a means of protection, er like they think it's the right thing to do. And so I'm not I don't I didn't interpret that as like, oh, I'm gonna like totally feel for Kathleen and you know, want her to kill Joel and Ellie, but at least you can kind of step into her psyche and her brother's been killed. She's angry, she's looking for someone to blame. They're feeling oppressed by Pedra and so, and she clearly doesn't give a fuck. Is she killed the doctor that delivered her.

By the way, I was really as as kind of great as that scene was, I was disappointed that that's all we get to see. If John gets who I don't know if you recognize him. He played the guy that Jeff Goldblum's fly barts on his hand and leg at the end of that movie. No, John Gets is amazing. Man, he's such a god.

He is a fantastic actor, like old school actor, been in a million things. But it's it's great to see him. Just I'm your doctor. Don't kill me. I'm your doctor.

Would you say he was a good Gets? And then he gets gotten there about pretty quickly? Man. Bella Ramsey really landed on thick this episode. I kind of liked it.

Yeah, you're trying to be She's the Ellie of the game. Is a little less precocious and a little bit angrier, which I mean the puns things taken straight from the game, Like she has a pun book. It's Bella Ramsay's general demeanor is a tad more precocious than the video game Ellie. She's a little it feels like she's a little bit more standoffs. And again I'm still only whatever a third in the game.

So but like she's obviously trying to connect with Joel, like with the jokes and like even she gets Joel to like laugh at a pun finally, and I'm not even sure if Joel has laughed. But since the beginning, like since the before times, right, I got hiccups. You can edit that out right but I have to now anyway, So yeah, it was. It was good to see them be a little not that they weren't concerned with their safety, but a little bit more normal. And you're starting to see the veneer of Joel melt Away, not fully, but you're and you also see things like Ellie is a bit more competent than we said, like you except with the gun, like she obviously knows how to use it, and she used it actually just a frightening degree.

I mean, I would say she misuses it because she fucking put tea you know where she shot him right like in the back, right, she shot him in the spine. He's like paralyzed, which is all I mean is I ain't right I could and then Joel find stabs him to death. So I mean, and you know what, right, and you know what, if it were in Arnold, if Arnold Schwartzenegger it had been this, he would have had your knife tupent. I would think, come on, I mean that scenees awful though, like it's it's but it's not because again, like you know that that guy is full of shit too, because his buddies are right behind him. I mean, it's it's it's a great scene because it's like you want them to because you don't feel bad for him in the context if he attacked our main character, right right, But you also see like killing a person and this guy's not super like he's young, um in the place like this like it's brutal and that's like a heart like it's this isn't a pleasant thing.

Even Joe who's done this for years, like you can tell he takes no pleasure in this, right right, Like he's he's equipped to do it, but he would rather not. And then Ellie, obviously she's at this point we haven't really seen her kill anyone, and it's implied she's only shot at or someone before. But right, this is it's it's it makes it real force like it's not they're not it's not YadA YadA. The violence isn't being YadA YadA, which in a lot of shows it would be, right, well, in a lot of zombie shows it is. And there's a time and a place.

But I like that this show is taking a stance and saying like we're going to in a fictional reality, like still try to stay close to how things we think would be, you know, taking our rules and applying them here. Well, and the other thing is, and you know, again now having some frame of reference with the video game, I mean I knew and I understood the focus of the game is obviously crafting and resource management and stealth because again resources stealth is necessitated because of the lack of sources, but also due to the kinds of enemies in the game, right, especially the zombies. Yeah, the clickers, right, So all of that aside the scene in the game that has Ellie doing what she does here in this scene where she could it's similar, right, because Joel is being choked under water, he's been drowned, and then Ellie comes in and point blanks the guy in the head in the game, yeah, right, Could they have done that in the show, I mean, yeah, they could have, but I don't think they've established her as a character to like straight up point blank someone.

But they hadn't in the game either, because that was the first time she kills someone. Best that we can tell, I think it was done. I think it was smartly done, because if that had been the way it had been done, I think you would have turned people against Ellie very quickly. I think they want they want to make her falls in the right word, but they want to make her transition to become a more Joel like right, a bit slower right, as opposed to just like point blanking a guy in the head. This is obviously a huge first step, and I wouldn't be surprised if thin the next episode she's killing people.

But at least it's not like like she's eager to use the gun because the gun represents like a way to defend herself, right, And like you see that every episode she asked for a gud, she asked for a gun, she gets the gun, she kind of does the like, oh look at me, like the when you see those like cringe teenagers on Instagram or whatever they're guns and then they accidentally like blow a hole in the sailing because they don't understand keep your finger off the trigger guggers and Joel, and Joel has to teach her that. And so, like I think the question is does she want the gun because she like wants to kill people, or is that she wants the gun because it like represents that she is self sufficient or you know a little bit of a little bit of b I think right now, it's more of the She wants to say, like I don't really need Joel, but like I'm happy to have him, and like, you know, worst comes worse, I could take care of myself.

And she also wants to prove her value like look, see, I'm not just pluggage or what do you say, cargo? Right, I'm not just the job. Yeah, And I don't know what, like what did you think about like how they sort of I think I mean again, I think it's I think it's interesting. You know, obviously a show like this, it's a road show, and it's it's very much like they're going from here to here to hear, to hear, to hear, to hear to hear, and then they get to the end. So it's not like it's not like we have the same characters hanging out for five episodes together.

It's very much Melanie Lynsky will probably be in the show for this episode, in the next episode, and that's probably it, like you know, as far as the game goes, and and you know, Nico Offerman and Murray Bartlett were in one episode. Like the thing about this show is is it's the show feels a lot more like the video game than I think I thought it would now. And the reason behind that is that the style of a story that they're telling is very episodic and serialized. Right you can cut each of these out as episodes and it be its own kind of standalone story. This is the first episode that's not like that.

This is the first episode that we end on a cliffhanger, a genuine cliffhanger, which again, that's kind of where I am in the game. So I don't have any idea where this is going. I know the ending of the game, I don't know the ending of the show. I think it's interesting that we're getting a humanized villain and stuff. I will I'm you know, I like Melanie Lynsky a lot.

I'll be curious to see where they go with her character and kind of what the end the goal is, because again, right now, it's just you sold us out, and I want to see what else they get to and where else they go with it, because there's like they've like they've even said, and like you've said, there's a lot of stuff that you can mine here. I mean, if they were if this character was never even in the game, unlike some of the other characters that we've seen who are in the game, but not very much like Bill and Frank who Frank's not even in the game effectively, he's by the time you meet him, he's dead. But what's so great about the show is it does have this opportunity to take a thread and tug at it.

Right, that's all this is. We're going to tug it a thread a little bit more than we did in the game, and I think the world, right, I think it's working. I will be curious by the end of the season if this all kind of feels cohesive and hangs together, because again, we're going from city to rural to city and then I don't know where it goes from here. Like I said, I'm not that far in the game, and I'm not trying to spoil everything for myself, but I actually really I like to this episode. I think this episode is a necessary, kind of you might say, filler episode, but I think it's more about all the stuff with Ellie and Joel.

Right, it's really an Ellie and Joel episode. However, I will ask you an interesting question as a side note. Did they do enough outside of what the game does to flesh out their relationship or are they just doing as much as the game did, because some of the cut scenes are repeated in the show. One for one, like the thing with the NUDI mag that, like the dialogue is directly from the game, and I think they are doing a good job of fleshing out the relationship. Like I know, we get a lot of them last episode, but we saw them once they got to Bill and Frank's house and the letter and spending time and like you know, almost felt like an afterthought though to the episode, Like yeah, but it did add to that.

And then this episode definitely with how they camped out the jokes that like conversations and yeah, the things were taken from the game, but like those scenes serve the purpose of building that relationship in the game too, Like that's exactly what they were there for. So agree, I think they've done a good job there. I thought that to Melanie Lynskey's Kathleen point you were making earlier, like it does rain to be seen. She's not like a menacing, hulking villain, but the fact is, she has a very clear idea of what she wants, and that's revenge, and she's willing to essentially make up any narrative she can to support that, Like she says, oh, you know Sam and Henry or Henry you know called these people in And I mean, does she actually believe that or she's just saying that to rile people towards her.

And then I made a joke about it earlier. But we also see her with her well bearded homie, who may or may not have ties to this franchise is already uh wait, who is he? The guy her like second in command plays Tommy in the game. Dude, he's the he's the voice and the face actor Tommy in the game. He has Jeffrey Peers.

Yeah, Tommy doesn't have a beard in the game, so yeah, but it's the same. I recognized his voice because like I heard his voice and I was like, I was like, that sounds like the dude from the game. Because also again in the game, haven't seen him since the opening cut scene. Yeah yeah, and in the show we haven't seen him since the opening scene, but obviously he will come into it because they mentioned him again as well, and that was actually we'll get back to that. So she's like so single focused when this guy who obviously he trusts her and he follows her, but he clearly doesn't agree with her.

He's like, showing her this thing. Something's pulsating in the ground. I'm assuming he's played to the clickers. It doesn't seem good and honestly probably seems like well more of a property than hunting down a dude who's running away from you. Um.

But she's like, nope, we'll come back to this later. How could that possibly go wrong? You can even see this guy like isn't totally down with that plan of action, but he's like, okay, so that'll be interesting. I think we know what that is, right, I mean, it's the thing that they introduced in the Bill and Frank part in the game. I think they showed it, and they showed it in on next week's The Last of Us.

They showed it, well, well, well, well you're smart, Well it's not a spoiler if they showed it. That was right at the end of the episode. I watched the end of the episode and there it was, and they showed it. I wish they hadn't, but I mean they pretty much showed it right, like they showed whatever it is without showing it. That's what the ticking time bomb here is, which I think is a smarter way of handling it than its just showing up in the school.

Like yeah, that felt that felt in the game, that felt very game like, like well you need you need constant like set pieces in the game, right right, right, which like but like in the game it felt very strange because like up until that point you hadn't had any like that, and that's like, now there's a boss battle like in the Let me put it this way, the Last of Us, in my opinion, is not the kind of video game that necessitates a boss battle, right, I mean, it's less about like some diversity, You're right, but you know what I mean, Like it's just yea, but that I wonder how that's going to be handled as the overarching threat here, because again, the clickers are always the overarching threat, are they not?

Or are the humans the overarching I think to Joel's point, like you can almost predict where the clickers are going to be a lot of the time. They're like zombies, yeah, and and like you know, but if the humans are the ones that are the unpredictable ones, and it's good. I'm interested to see where they go with the Kathleen character. Like I think we all love Mililynsky Yellow Jackets amazing if you haven't seen it, she's real. It's really good and and there's there's shades of this character there, although she's a little bit less insidious in that show.

Um but yeah, I mean she's obviously going to pop off. And Henry and Sam am introduced like a what I'm going to think are kind of like a parallel to Joel and Ellie. Um. Sure, And we talked about like is this for the gamers or the people that have seen you know, or for just people that aren't familiar with it. I think based on how this ended, I think it's it is more people who haven't played the game, because like, yes, if you played it, like, it's not really much of a cliffhanger, right, Like they're not there's nothing bad that's going to happen to them because of what's happening at the end of the episode, Like, yeah, we're seeing this, we're essentially seeing this one line away from everything being handled like yeah, and so like, but I'm interested to see how they handle the relationship with Henry and Sam because that actually is quite impactful on the Joel Elie dynamic.

Yeah, and hey, if you know what we could change things, no flashbacks, no cold opening. I was surprised. I bet we'll get something in the next episode to address something with Melanie Lynsky in them, like it would be guaranteed that yeah, but not because it was in the preview for the next episode. I didn't wasn't that eagle eyed, But like stand to reason, the way they told the Bill and Frank story, they're gonna maybe lean back on that because again, we do need to, like you said, kind of see more of a shade of gray of Melanie Lynsky, because right now there's not a whole lot of gray there. She well killed an unarmed man.

Well, I mean her brother obviously was infected, right, And the implication is Henry said something to Fedra, I guess, and Fedra like we've seen how they hate infected people. And then thought it was because I thought it was she sold them out because they were part of the uprising that was trying to overthrow Fedra and they just killed them. Because that's why I thought. I interpreted as he was infected, because remember she said the doctor was turning in people, and so I assumed the doctor would like, oh, I just assume he was turning people in just because I just turning into centers. No.

I thought he's the doctor, so he knows if people are infected. I mean I could be wrong. That was how I read. Well, if you're infected, it's like it doesn't matter though, Like if you're infected, you want to get them out of there, right, Like there's no stopping it. I understand that, like not necessarily fully rational, But maybe you're right.

Maybe it was about the set and well, I mean they took out Fedrah. I mean, yeah, yes, not so effective. We've seen it. Well, I was going to ask, you know, in the game, you know, I know how the game ends, and I don't want to talk about the way the game ends. But there's this thing that they always talk about about how the fireflies are like these ineffectual dipshits who like can't get anything done right, and they're like they're not successful of what they're doing.

They're bad at organ they're bad at like a sustained effort. Right, So like we haven't seen that yet, right, No, No, these are not these are not the fireflies, right. I think the game uh says like the fireflies help like arm some of these like rebels but no, like, these aren't ideological. These are just people that I mean, I guess want to be quote unquote free. But I don't know if I like their brand of I don't.

I don't know if I love their brand of freedom. Well, and that's the thing, if it's like, you know, the iron boot of one is no different than the iron boot of another, right, Like Melanie Lynsky's seems like a hard customer, so she's probably no better than Fedra, Like, I mean, we've seen that, Like I don't think. I don't think Fedra would murder their only doctor, which is that? How's that going to come by you in the ass? I wonder?

Yeah, I don't. Again, like it's this episode, like this episode is not a full story the way the Bill and Frank episode was, the way the first episode was, the way the second episode was. This is I think my only knock against this episode is the cliffhanger ending. But like again, like you said, that is not for me, that is not for you. That is a storytelling device that exists because people haven't seen the game.

That's all it is. Like, that's it. It was intense, Like you could have added another five ten minutes, like you you could added five seconds and there's no cliffhanger. Yeah, yeah, like literally literally there's no cliffhanger. Those are not Melanie Lynsky's people.

Those are the people Melanielynsky's chasing actor. Like, yeah, like, we don't know the names of these two characters that are holding Ellie and Joel hostage, because if we did, we would know that they're they're people that are on the run. So it's these tension is taken away if you are given one more piece of information and there's uh the other piece that there was some good conversations between Joel and Ellie about the relationship building, like in the car when she was looking at the nudy magazines and the puns. And then after Ellie kills or not, Joel kills the guy that Ellie shot. You know, Joel kind of explains the situation to her and he's like, you know, she's like, how did you know there was a scam?

He's like, I've been on both sides of it, and she says like, did you kill innocent people? And then here's my boy, Pedro Pascal heard you, Haydon. He's like and he just he says so much with just a look. Right. He looks at her and he's like basically like like it's one of those things you see in movies or TV shows, were like, oh, did you cheat on me with her?

And he's like, I'm not going to answer that. Like the fact that you don't answer that, Okay, can I point something out here because this is I knew you were gonna fucking bring it up because I had to say something to you about my feelings on Pedro Pascal. Troy Baker in the game just says yeah I did, and that's that why pussy foot around it. Who cares, dude. It's literally the lawless future.

That's a dystopia. There's no crime that you could do that you can be punished for at this point because we're literally watching a twelve year old murder someone. It's not about I know, I know, but it it was quote unquote justified words. This is him like, dude, like literally just in the game, he just goes, yes, I did, like I just you. In a way, I appreciate that the game allows the character to own his bad decisions.

In the show, it feels like the character is almost allowed to say yeah, I did, but man like cat that got the canary, It's like, is it that? Is it that? Or he's like, because he's starting to open up to Ellie, like he's afraid, like this will close the door on that. Right, character in the game didn't seem to be afraid that it would close the door. I mean, it's just I know.

But but but again, they set that, they set that dialogue up one to one, and then they change that one part. That's the one part that they change. But he says in the game, straight up, I did kill innocent people. But why do you think they did that? Well, that's what I'm was going to ask you, Like, is it more palatable for your character in a video game to be a little bit more Yeah, I mean again nefarious or you don't need to connects.

I just want to you know, fucking murder really, because the reason people get so angry about The Last of Us the second game is because of the emotional attachment that they've formed with the character of Joel. Joel isn't like the top fifteen characters in video games of all time. He's literally up there with Master Chief for people. But I mean, maybe not me, but maybe I mean the last it was clearly resonated with a lot of people, to the point where the an entire video game is disavowed because of the way the character is treated. And that's not me saying that.

I mean, we both know the backlash of The Last of Us two is undeserved because people got emotionally attached to a character and a fucking dystopian narrative where you should never get attached to characters because the likelihood is they're gonna die, because they almost always do. Oh I've been bitten, look like oh there you go, like, oh my god, Like you're not my husband anymore, it's not your son anymore. Like how many fucking narratives in post apocalyptic anything have a positive, happy ending for the characters. None, because they're already living in a fucking nightmare. There's no the end.

Death is the release in these fucking narratives, right Like to die is to be free here because you don't have to worry about the clickers and the wastelanders and the government like you're being attacked constantly. That's all I wonder is, why do they feel the need to make it that he's not as quote bad of a guy in the show as in the video game. I think they want us to understand that he's aware of the bad things that he's done, and he's done them, but he's not proud of it. And I think he's trying to set an example for Ellie that we'll see if he follows through on the rest of the way. I think that.

I think if he does what he does in the game, this doesn't track. Like here's the problem. I know how the game ends, and the character in the game that tracks with that ending. I'm gonna ask you now, because we're almost at the halfway point of the show, I'm gonna ask you the question that anybody who knows where the show is going would be asking someone else. Is the show going to end the same way the video game ends?

I think so, and I think that it will not. It will be very certain it will. It will. It will not work as well in the in the show as it does in the game because he is a different character here. The character in the game makes that decision, and I believe it all.

I believe that the character in the game is charting in that direction already because the character in the game is likable, but he's not that likable he's not as likable as this version of Joel is. This version of the goal is trying very hard to get you to not like him. That's how likable he is, because again it's Pedro Pascal. He's just a likable guy. It's again that's video of him dancing with the Do you see that video of him dancing with the SNL thing?

You sent me which which was which? Which was better than Chris Pratt? I knew you're gonna say funny, I mean work where there's some christ Okay? Can I point again my Chris Pratt thing comes from the same point of my criticisms for this The source material does something so good. You choose not to change one thing, but you change like picking and choosing the things you change.

It shows that you understand certain narrative kind of edges that maybe need to be standed off for the benefit of certain viewers. Right. That's why they changed him, because there are going to be some people that were watch the show and go, no way I can get behind this character, and I wonder if they're tracking that way because the decision he makes at the end of the show, maybe he doesn't. I mean, I can't see them doing that, but I could I guess see them changing it or maybe leaving it ambiguous. I mean, he did still like stab a dude, like a helpless guy, but we didn't we didn't see it.

I think. Come on. My point is like it's not like, Okay, he softened his language slightly. He's not like a fundamentally different person than he was in the game. Like, so, do you believe that the Joel of the show was out killing innocent people out in the cities to survive?

Could you see him doing that? Yeah, as soon as like after he lost his daughter, Like that would have like really fucked someone up, and like he's just like I believe it actually make it totally tracks, especially if we consider Kathleen. She just lost her brother and she's basically like to see the world burn. Like for people that don't agree, I believe her one. I believe Melanie Lynsky one percent.

But we haven't seen We didn't see Joel right after his daughter died, right right, But like again, like, oh man, I'm gonna, I'm not gonna this is my hill to die on for the show. I know it's it's it's it's like okay, I mean it's okay, it's okay. We're gonna get to a point where it's either gonna be a problem or they're gonna it's just gonna go away. Look, I can't help that the video game did a good job. I can't help but the Troy Baker is talented at what he does.

Like, well, the book was better. It's not a book being better thing. Maybe you playing the game. The book is always better. That's It's whether or not the source material does enough to warrant existing as an adaptation of the good source material.

The book in the movie are always going to be different. I don't know why we would compare them. It's more I'm asking what you're doing. No, I'm asking why make a change? Why make a change?

You are comparing a thing because I am not comparing. I'm asking why make the change? What is necessitating you changing something that is perfect the way it is. I don't know, man, I think I'm not saying Castrey Baker in this show obviously not the point. I'm just saying the character of Joel in the show seems to be a lot less abrasive than the one in the game.

What you're saying is you hate Pedro Pascal, what's your what's your Twitter handle? So they don't hate Pedro Pascal at all. I like Pedro Pascal. That's the problem. I feel like Joel needs to be a little bit less likable.

I just do. I come on, you gotta give me. I'll actually say one thing, like the end of the game, like I was all in on Joel and really liked him as a character and like really affected me profoundly. So I don't actually think liking him now is going to I think it's gonna it's gonna make it more impactful. Okay, I mean I could I could see that, and I could see that being the case as well.

But that means but that means that that moment is going to have to really blow the doors off, like they're gonna have to I mean again, like maybe they go complete again, like because of that moment. Like we have not seen in any source material of any kind that moment being decided like that. And that's what made the Last of Us, That's what sustained that game through the end of the game, is that it didn't fall off at the end. The end of the game punches you right in the face and says you're gonna like it like it's a gut punch. You said it yourself.

I mean we've we've talked about the ending, and you've told me how you felt about it, Like you don't forget the ending of the Last of Us. That's a testament to the storytelling. And I think I'm just curious if they're gonna nail it, because man, that it's gonna be right, Like it's going to be hard. Yeah, I'm trying not to like do spoilers and whatnot, but it's it's definitely one of the most impactful video game endings I've ever seen. Not like it's not twisty or anything like, it's just a decision that's being made.

It's just very like human but like not, it's very real. I guess it underlines the underlines the cognitive dissonance of humanity of wanting one thing and knowing how to get it and doing something else and it's and just making that decision. Like but but I do think like it's the whole game, the narrative, the ending is all contingent on the Joel and Elly relationship and they are building up well. And I know you made a point about like not feeling that that was that was where you wanted to be. But I think this is going in the right direction.

They made small changes, I think just to maybe gives the more time with Sam and Henry and understand their conflicts a bit more, rather than they help us fight zombies or faceless no name. That's just a function of you have a bit more character time because you don't have to do like gameplay, right, you don't have to like shoot twenty walkers and shot ten people. Oh yeah, like and again like this even with the last episode kind of again kind of being what it was, and the things that we talked about, like the fact that they're saying, hey, it's less about giving us just more of Joel and Ellie, but also expanding on the world. I appreciate that. I mean, that's those those cold opens or what we're talking about, those flashbacks.

All of that is helping, and I I actually really appreciate the world building that the show is doing because a lot of these zombie shows don't even give a shit. You want to talk about stuff that's YadA YadA, that's the YadA YadA stuff and zombie stuff. It's like, man, whatever, Like oh, everybody's everybody's dead and it's just people roam in the countryside. It's like this in this narrative, I don't think that's the case, and they've kind of hinted as such, which I appreciate that they're going out of their way to make us understand that it's not just zombies have taken over and people are on the run. Like that's yadda yadding as far as I'm even little conversations that like Joel has with Ellie, like explain about how Tommy got it involved with the fireflies and he and Tommy like you used to be banned.

It's like little things like that flesh out the story in a way that, Okay, we don't know about how everything happened everywhere, but like we get a good feel for the context of the world and we can fill in the blanks enough. Yeah, and hey, you know what, I appreciate that they show to fucking loves with an Arby's At one point I felt like that very intentional. I did see that we didn't have to armies, wasn't free to begin with, which is not in the game. Fantastic line nowhere in the video game, Like that's The thing I think more than anything else looking back on the last episode is you know, yeah, Craig Mason and Neil Dreckmand know how to write something like there you go, and you know what this this episode with all the Melanie Lynsky stuff, I hope it gets as good of a payoff as the Bill and Frank stuff, because this is a holy new character that has never been shown before.

I mean, Frank has shown in the game, but we I mean Franks in the game or Bill. Yeah, I mean this is this character does not exist in the game, like the impact of her actions does. But yes, right, she doesn't. And I'm liking that they're getting these like pretty good, like big actors to do these honestly bit parts, but they're not necessarily core for the entire season. Like you know, we had um tests in the first few episodes, then we had Bill and Frank, and it's like you're getting like really talented actors.

Now you're getting Melanie Lynsky to play Kathleen, and like it just emphasizes that this is like a really high caliber of show that they're not really cutting any expense. They're getting like really great talent to play like these these important, if not like full season roles and they're actually turning in fantastic performances. It's not like, you know, Nick Offerman just showed up, went through the paces. Same with Melanielynsky, like she looks she looks suitably angry in this show and suitably pissed and like just at her wits end, like I believe she's a woman on a mission, and yeah, I wouldn't want to, you know, No, she seems like a miserable human being, which is which which is perfectly fine, Like I don't again, it's the fucking waste land.

How many characters get happy endings, Like the characters in the last episode got a happy ending in spite of everything and because they died together, right exactly, like they made that decision, which is like the way these narratives normally end is either the decisions made for you or you make it yourself. So Melanie Linsky's character, I'm curious to see where we go. But yeah, you know, you to be sick if they just like kill her before she ever beats, that would be like that would be so funny. Oh my god, Like do you like a fucking what was that guy from the Star Wars movie that they just like killed off on the second one. Oh you mean, oh snow or I was like Captain Fasima also like kind of just datomly like yeah, oh yeah that's right, Yes, just YadA YadA out of existence.

Yeah, I you know what, I'm I am glad that the show is avoiding the zombie show stuff it still has avoid. I think it's done a good job avoiding the zombie show stuff of like the usual tropes. But I think that's also because again, like the Last of Us isn't a zombie game. It's it's it's a it's I've never killed so many humans in a zombie game before, guys, like you know what I mean, Like, the Last of Us is just about as much about the people as it is about the organic, you know, the organic human threat versus the humanity overriding threat. So and then the show is doing a good job of that because how many zombies did we see in this episode?

None? A zero. We saw some nice pulsating though, right, but we didn't see any zombies. I'm like, can you imagine showing someone this show and being like, this is the fourth episode of this show. It's about zombies, like where, where's where's Daryl with the sword?

Michelle's putting people's heads off? Like where's that? Also separately, did you see the news that there actually is like a fungal infection that's been impacting people because it is like hotter and it's it's not like this, but it is like for people with like low Is it like in Indonesia? No, it's like in I don't know, I think in the West Coast, like people with like low immunity have been like succumbing to this illness that I mean during I mean during COVID there was a whole fungal infection in India because of in the summer times, it's humid in the in the hospitals and there were just people crowded in there and people were getting infected with some something probably similar, and it's like, oh Jesus, I know, I know, it's like come on, man, I mean, look, this is like anything else.

The zombie outbreak, the one that's like a disease from the wild. It would have to be like the perfect thing to happen. Saying with this, it's like it would have to I don't know if Cortes sets could actually do this. I'm sure there are people much smarter than me that say, I mean, it could happen, but like you know, I think, I think there's the things I was reading. I mean, oh, if it's what people want to hear, but tell me more about how we'll be living this in five years.

Okay, So my understand my understanding from mainly Reddit is that the corteseps control answer like not only is the temperature, but actually evolved in like control like an ants, like it's an a, it's not. It's not like it could take over a fucking goofer and do the same thing, like that's not that's that's a video game movie logic. It would take like many years of mutations and like before, like before something like that could happen. So yeah, someone would have had to have already been taken over by a court deceps to it to be able to even understand what it's doing. Like, they may be able to kill us, but they won't take control of us.

They'll just kill us, right, which is like you know much better, right, we'll just be dead, which is fine, better than being clickers or bloaters or whatever the fuck. So so it sounds like you're you're you're back all in. I mean, I've been all in with the show. I'm not going to stop watching it. Look, I'm all in on this show because it's the first time that something video game has actually been done.

Well, let's not kid ourselves like Detective Pikachu kind of a one off. A lot of the movies a one off. This is sustained, dude. The last Mortal Komma movie was lit. Okay, the last Mortal Kombat movie was fine.

This is already better. This is making a case to be interpreted seriously as something outside of the game, right, like Mortal Kombat. How many hoops do those movies have to jump through to make a fucking narrative that makes sense? Okay, they're not again, we already talked about well it is now if you play the games. But with this, it's like again, the narrative that they're going from is so rich and so well defined that the show has a pretty to lay up.

But at the end of the day, they could have fucked up super hard, and they haven't, and they're and again maybe they will, maybe they don't stick the landing, But still I'm still impressed by the show's commitment to telling a story that is different and unique enough to warrant existing as an adaptation. Yeah, I agree, And I think some could argue maybe they went the safe rap by not string too far from the narrative. But I actually think what this means is we're gonna probably see more adaptations of like well written video game. Yeah, where's the God a War Movie? Man?

Or the God a War Show? Trime got the rights, it was like, yeah, so we'll definitely be seeing that ball Rog Presents. Now that the interesting is that is are they going to start like in the Greek Times where he's just like fucking shit up, where they're going to kind of just maybe hit like through flash Flashback, same three games to Flashback too. They could tell they could tell us a concurrent a concurrent story like West World did, or like Arrow, like what you know what Arrow on the CW. No, it was very very hit or missic quality.

But ultimately I did love that show and they had actually like there was like the premises He's on this island for five years and then he's Oliver Queen's brought back and like so like not half the show, but like a third quarter the show was like the flashbacks of him living on the island and then the rest of like the present time. So I could see them doing a lot of that. I know, Uh, you know, when the god A War show comes out, we'll probably well, here's the thing. I'm a bigger fan of guy. I'm a bigger fan of those first three.

Those first three got A War games are like, we're just insane, That's what I mean. That was something that you and I bonded over in middle school in high school, and I mean, you know, we already have adaptations of it, so we can't talk about it. But like, I'm not Resident Evil man talk. You know. The thing I was reading on the subreddit was like, now that the last of a show came out and it's actually good, can can you know what?

Who is it? Who's who the fuck? Makes? Is it? Nuts?

Come? It's not Capcom? Like? Can Capcom actually give a shit now and make a good Resident Evil thing? Because like us, unlike Paul Thomas Anderson movies, for what it's worth, they're fun, sure, but wouldn't you like to see an adaptation of Resident Evil four done by somebody who actually wanted to do something interesting with it?

Did you watch the show that came out of Netflix. Oh my god, the one with Lance Reddick. It was actually no, I no, all your credibility is going down too, like like the angsty teenage girls were like a lot, but lance Reddick, Yeah, it was amazing, and like the Red was always if Lance Reddick was in this show, he'd be amazing. Like the world building I thought was actually quite good in that and like somehow worked in the world of the games, and it was one of those things where I was like, oh, I think they kind of found their footing near the end of the season. I think next season could be interesting, and that I canceled.

So you know what they're going to adapt if it's resident enable, They're just going to pick up the Ethan story from seven that's all, which oh yeah, but again, like that's also just a fucking movie, Like that's a that's an easy story to tell, like plenty, like I could do it, but I'm saying easy as far as like you have a pretty like strong narrative there. Well, here's my question for you to close this episode, because we're kind of on the topic. Now, do things that are good video games need to be turned into shows? And if they do what necessitates one versus thegether, Like why is this exist and not something like well, I guess I maybe is it just financial because like I said, Gears of War? But like, my god, what would that take to turn that's like similar to this, right, it's like a post apocalyptic Christopian thing bungeons my for when a man loves his quarterly earnings capitalism.

Hey, I don't know, Prime spent how much money on the Lord of the Ring show? Well a does a metric fuck ton count as a number on it? Is that a spreadsheet number you've seen before? Has it that Jeff Bezos really just wanted a huge show and boy he got it? And yeah, I mean that's also like you know that that shows a rounding error for Amazon, like right on it, like yeah it really?

Ah right, Like that's that's money that we lost last year at Amazon gift cards. People didn't with deem. Yeah, but that's all that is. We saw people Amazon gift cards and now they paid for the show. So I would say that for me, the things that should be adapted into shows should should be less big name ips and more things that like someone could do it something interesting with, Like there are plenty of ips out there that like would would kill us, like a show or a movie or something.

Not everything needs to be the Last of Us and Cuphead and Resident Evil like those are so ubiquitous they're their own brand already. But like can you imagine like an Underlander tail's pretty big too, but like I don't know, like something that's a little bit less the Witcher and the Last of Us and more B or C tier being elevated like that, that's what I would like to see. Well, I mean, like Hollywood, the intimate industry is very much like a copycat industry, right, Like we see we see, we see, we see comics takeoff, like everyone's doing comic Shared Universe blah blah. You know, Uncharted did well, we talked about right, Uncharted well, Last those seems to be doing well. You know either More movie that came out last was it last year?

Two years ago? Like like like was pretty well received. So like we're in like a renaissance, don't you. And people have like, oh dude, we need ip right, well there you go. Video games sell a fuck ton of copies.

They so you have like really big built in fan bases and like generally the big ones have similoriety, so even the non gamers, So like, yeah, I think name notoriety outside of people like Yeshar and I the gamers in the room. As what I'm saying, and my bet is the next five ten years we're going to see a lot more video game content. I agree that'll be like the next not that comic stuff is going to go away, but I think that'll be like the next I want to hesity the word oversaturation, but do you get what I'm saying, Like in that, I actually think it will be an oversaturation, But I think an oversaturation comes on the backs of stuff like this, where it's like five things get made that we're good, and then three thousand things get made that are varying degrees of good, too bad, too awful.

But again, like we only I mean, up until this point, we've had maybe one hundred video game movies. It's like a shockingly no low number. They've all just been pretty shitty. But like now I feel like video games are being, like you said, kind of being recognized for their narrative quality by more mainstream Hollywood touch Because again Hollywood is the amount of people I've talked to who are as out of touch with things that I thought were things everybody knew about is shocking to me. But at the same time, like, now people know what The Last of Us is, and like that was a video game that came out on the PS three, like almost over a decade ago.

Now like a decade a decade ago, right, Well, the second one is only a couple of years old. A couple of years old is light years old. And the second one is in people's backlogs. Now, that's how long it's been since it came out. So I mean again, I don't I don't.

I don't think that you're far off base. I think we're going to see everything that has been popular being adapted. Minecraft fucking Craig Mason's part of the Borderland's game. He's the one writing it. Oh yeah, So I mean again, that's a big one.

Halo got its thing that came out that you know, I think nobody liked, but it happened, you know again, Like some things are going to get adapted finally and probably done well, and then some things maybe readapted, like Mario that you know again, we make fun of Chris Pratt, but like a second Mario movies getting made and if you saw that first one, you would never think that anything would have ever been done again in a large format. But yet here we are, so I think you're right, And yeah, we're gonna got a war show which will continue to add fuel to the fire. And my god, can the PlayStation just not be the one that has all the games that are being adapted, because like Xbox was Halo and like it sucked so hard, it sucked so hard, Like Nintendo has like really good ip like Zelda's an obvious like right, but it's like obviously it's got to be cartoons though they're not like doing live I think Nintendo probably has in giant letters in their headquarters in Japan, no live action anything like.

And I don't blame them because they're working with dream Works and they can make movies that look like the video games, because the fucking movie for Mario looks like the game and I don't want to watch. I don't know if I want to watch a live action Mario movie other than one I can already go and watch. I mean, Chris Pratt in a mustache and overalls, who says no, I mean that's what we got with Pedro Pascal and SNL. Yeah, let's go. Yeah, I'm I'm with you.

I think the oversaturation is coming. But again, as someone who's a video gamer, yeah, you know, it was like the comic book thing, like we'll have to watch everything, you know, right, just you know right? And I don't watch all I don't watch all the comic book stuff anymore either. Like we've gotten to the point now where it used to be you could keep track of everything, and now you can. And you and I grew up reading comic books.

That was something we bonded over. And it was crazy for us to see a fucking Captain America movie and the Avengers and all that was insane to us. Imagine people older than us even more insane. And it is insane to me that The Last of Us is being adapted as well as it is as a video gamer, as someone who grew up like you did being told video games are a waste of fucking time. Well, now people are watching the TV show, so I guess it must not have been that big of a waste of time.

Yeah, Mom, yeah, Dad, I mean that's what that is. Exactly what this feels like. It feels like a justification of the medium in another like sometimes it takes another medium to validate your medium, right, Like to a wider audience. I don't think vide game is to be validated, but yeah, it's nice to see that. I don't think they knew either, but other people clearly do, like in right, Like, come on, if you're Neil Drupman, what is one of the reasons you want to have the show made it so you can be like, see, yeah, I can do it anywhere, baby, Like yeah, and like I get it, So I'm all for it.

Adapt everything, Take shots that don't hit, because the things that are going to hit are going to come out of the misses, not out of the successes. That's normally the way this goes. People figure out how to make things work after they've seen what didn't work, And we saw twenty years of what didn't work Plant, Blood, Rain, Postal, the movie Look at You. Uve Bowl, who was essentially the video game in the video game movie industry, was him for like a decade? Yeah, so you know what, I'm glad that's not it anymore.

But at the same time, we wouldn't be here if not for someone like Uve Bowl. We wouldn't like, we wouldn't who was fighting seeing movies he was. He was, dude, he's a genius. Man. That guy is the next level genius.

He was getting he was essentially getting all his movies paid for by the by the government and tax breaks and shit. Mike of the Projection Booth has spoken with him multiple times said he's a super nice guy, super down to earth, super smart guy. He just takes a bad rap because he makes bad movies. But not everybody's Martin Scorsese, baby, Like, come on, there's gotta be somebody making movies out there for the straight to DVD crowd, the red box crowd. So so, speaking of speaking of the next time, we're gonna be talking about Endure and Survive the I guess more than the halfway point of this show.

No, it would be the fifth episode, which she'll be the halfway point. No, there's only nine episodes. It was only nine episodes. And guess what that episode may be coming to you a little earlier, because I don't know if you saw My Friend, but that episode is coming out on Friday, I mean the next one of the finales coming on Friday. No, No, the episode, the fifth episode of this show is coming out four days from now.

To what's on Sunday. Alright, all right, it's the Chiefs. It's oh, because they want us to see the Chiefs want us to understands. Okay, okay, yeah, they're they're actually releasing the episode on Friday to avoid the Super Bowl, which I've never seen that before. No, And I'm also like the way like these shooters and stuff our it's not really like four live viewership anyway, So it's not like, oh, I'm gonna like cancel my HBO po like I like, oh I forgot that that the show that but whatever, it works for me.

Hey, I'll watch the episode early. We get to see two episodes of the show in the same week. I'm not complaining. So yeah, so we'll be talking about that. And as always, you can find ya Sharon my mushroom head.

Oh boy, now you can't find our mushroom heads. Yeah, you can find our discussion about people with mushroom heads at weirdingwaymedia dot com, along with a whole host of other episodes of shows that you should totally be checking out if you're not already. So that's where you can find us. That's where you can find this show. And as for the mushroom people.

You can find them on the Last of Us, the TV show that we've been talking about, and also on the Super Mario movie. Sorry Chris Pratt, and as always, we'll catch you on the next episode.