Haunted Hawaii

Weird. Hello everyone, and welcome to Scary Stories We Tell I'm one of your hosts, Chris, and I'm Jess. I thought you had a different intro for this because I forgot which segment we were doing. We're here talking on scary Stories. We tell about Haunted States, something that we we started a long time ago, twenty twenty in the barren West.

It's like to remember the intro for this particular why but speaking of on the fly, the only way to get to Hawaii is by plane or boat because it's not part of the contiguous United States or the continental United States. It is in the middle of the ocean. Have you ever been to Hawaii? I have not regretted. I really really want to go.

It's one destination that like my nana has always wanted to go, like my entire life. And I have periodically looked at like plane tickets and stuff too Hawaii, and who boy, they are expensive and also it expensive to stay there because everywhere, well I mean everywhere is beautiful. There's no bad part of Hawaii, right. Well, well, it's also it's it's the destination for American tourists to go somewhere that is not contiguous to the United States, like, yeah, I feel like it's America, but it's not America, right exactly kind I mean, I guess kind of like Alaska. I can speak to Alaska more than I can Hawaii, because I've been to Alaska and it was fine.

We went fishing, not the thing that I would have chose to do, but we did it anyways. But in Alaska you can do and see a lot of things. I'm not saying like Alaska is beautiful. I've never been there, but you know, obviously pictures, movies, television, all that. It is beautiful, absolutely, the wilderness and everything.

But when it comes down to it, in most of the United most of the continental United States, you can see a lot of the types of wilderness and animals and things to do in Alaska, in various parts of the United States, in a lot of parts of the United States, but you can't go surfing and see volcanoes and you know well, and you also can't you can't go to the jungle. Yeah, you can't go to the jungle. You can't do all that stuff anywhere other than like or in many places, I think you can only do it in Hawaii and Puerto Rico, Yeah, that's fair, but Puerto Rico is not a state. Yeah, I mean Hawaii as far as I'm concerned, Like you mentioned it for beaches, is obviously very popular, but it's I believe, the only naturally occurring jungle in the United States, because I don't think there's any jungles mainland, at least not in best I can tell.

Again, that's why Puerto Rico and Hawaii are kind of Again, I would rather go to Puerto Rico than Hawaii personally because it's a little cheaper, right, Because like you said, Hawaii is it's a destination, like it is, like that's my family has never been. We've been plenty of other places, but Hawaii never made the list because I guess you just go and sit on the beach, which, like now as an adult, seems perfectly fine. That seems fantastic. There was a time in my life where that did not sound interesting, but like now it does. I well, like I went to the beach a few to, like the beach in Florida a few times when I was a kid, and I did really like it.

But yeah, like I wasn't about to stay like every day on the beach, like one day on the beach was great, but I still wanted to go out and do all the things since see all the stuff now, oh my god, just like I would set up a tent on the beach and you can like come get me in a week. That's fine. I'm with you. I'm with you, you know, And that's you know, my my lovely wife wants to go to Hawaii at some point, and I did not for the longest time, but I kind of think I do now. So yeah, hey, maybe the plane tickets aren't as expensive these days.

I would like to believe that, but I don't. Don't think that. That's the kid. I don't know everything. It's extension.

Yeah, but Hawaii has the distinction of not only being an island state, but also it's the final state in the Union. So and yeah, like you mentioned, it has also volcanoes. So it is made up of several islands, including Hawaii, Maui, Oahu, Kauai, Molokai, Lunai, Kneehaw and cahol Away excuse me. And those are the major islands. That's where you can go and stay for the most part, at least I think most of those places.

Again, I haven't been to Hawaii. But I know that the big island, that's what that's that's Hawaii, that's that's the mainland. Yeah, as they were. Yeah, so outside of the fact that we haven't not been to Hawaii, you're not here to listen to us wax poetically about the history of Hawaii. You're here to listen to us talk about weird things in the state of Hawaii, a state that, like you mentioned, kind of is distinctly cultural in a way that a lot of states in our country are not.

It has a very distinct culture, a very distinct group of people, the Hawaiian indigenous population. I mean these I mean, these are people that were there long before Cook came and discovered them. So well, I mean, and that's the thing that's kind of the thing, right like that our whole you know, Hawaii is the only way to get there is by boat and buy a plane. And way back in the day when the main continental United States was being you know, taken over, Hawaii was still going on as it was for I mean for a time anyway. But they have they've had the ability to remain more indigenous and native than the rest of the United States has.

And so I think that definitely attributes to why it does feel like a place that's not really you know, connected to the States when we think about them, which is, you know, a bumber because I don't I before going into this episode, I honestly didn't know about any Hawaiian cryptids or legends or anything beyond that. So one of the ones that I found are ones that you might find in the jungle if you happen to venture out at night, which I would not recommend, are the night Marchers, which I guess are one of the more famous cryptids on the island. So they are said to be spirits of ancient Hawaiian warriors who still roam the islands and march in their own I guess, ghostly procession. They're said to be heard at night, and what you hear if you find them are the sounds of drums and enchanting, and sometimes if you see them, you're going to see them carrying weapons and torches.

So according to the legend, if you see the night Marchers, you most certainly should not look them directly in the eye, or they will take your soul. So these are some like not fucking around spirits we got going on here. So the night Marchers are said to be living in the jungle where they were said to be settled back when they were when there were warriors protecting the island. So the whole idea is that, yes, they will take your soul because they are still out there protecting the island from foreign invaders. Interesting.

I gotta assume that there are these kinds of myths in a lot of places like this, right, Oh god, yeah, I would assume. Yeah, just to speak broadly about the idea that there is a force coming up from the earth possibly or supernaturally here that is protecting the land, you know, has a tie to the land, I think. I mean, it's very romantic. It really is, like that's such a romantic notion. Oh my god, you know that the spirits of the warriors are still here protecting us from foreign invaders, like you said, I mean, right, I wonder, yeah, I just I've got to wonder, like how many of these kinds of myths exist out in the world in other places where indigenous people, which is plenty of places where indigenous people have settled, and then you know, outsiders not indigenous to the land have come, and if there have been these similar stories of you know, spirits in the woods who are not vengeful per se, but they're definitely they're benevolent babe, right, I don't know, it doesn't seem like they're going out of their way to hurt people.

Yeah, I think it kids a benevolent yeah for the people. They're more of like a protection myth. Like, yeah, like they're not overtly out to get you. They're not spirits that were like said on revenge, right, They're they're protectors. They're if you, you know, try and challenge them, then then yeah, they are warriors and they will they will fight you.

But I would I would say that, yes, this is probably a myth that runs pretty parallel in a lot of cultures across the world, just you know, with the sheer amount of colonialism and conquering that has happened since the dawn of time. Well, I wonder if I mean, like again, somewhere that I'm kind of more or less uniquely tied to, is there's got to be similar stories like this in India, you know, the warriors protecting the land from again the outside influences because you know, as it were, Hawaii is discovered by James Cook in the seventeen hundreds, and he is, well, what is he He's he's definitely uh, you know, uh, he's not from England or anything. So it's like it's it's that same thing where it's like I don't want to point fingers at one group of people, but it is one group of people.

And I wonder how many of these kinds of stories come from, Like you mentioned the tradition of imperialism by way of the Brits or imperialism slash slash colonialism. I like the story they'll look them in the eyes and they steal your soul. Like that's that's that's good, right. I mean again, it's like very romantic. It's like, yeah, you don't, don't do not, don't tuck with them.

So are these are common sighting? Are they seen often? So? Yeah, they are. Like I said, they're one of the more well known ones.

They have been recorded more often. I mean, like I tried to find some examples recently and I couldn't really find anything much past like the eighties. So I don't know how much cultural influence that you know, has in you know, just the world that we kind of lived in in the eighties where there was a lot of you know, panic around a lot of weird things, but um, yeah, these these typically are the more known and more famous ones. There are no reports of people whose souls have been stolen unfortunately. I mean, is there a way for you to know if your sl those are locked in the X files somewhere?

I mean, how would one know? That's the question I feel. I feel it. I mean, if you have a soul, I feel like you'd feel it go away, Like there'd be an emptiness, very deep emptiness, I think. So I want to agree, but I don't know.

Like the the whole idea behind a soul, in my mind, is very wishy washy, right, like what like is it a religious thing? Is it inherently religious? So I don't think it's inherently I mean, I don't think it is inherently religious. I think that if you go back in history and recorded history, they'll see a lot of examples of things that like would be interpreted as a soul, you know, but they are translated as reason and will and things like this like that. And so I think the way that we hear soul the way the typical way, like as a Westerner in America, and you hear soul, you probably associate it with you know, Christianity, right, like, okay, that makes sense.

Well they say you're immortal soul, right, but you can like look at like Greek mythology and stuff like that, and there's you know, like your soul goes into the under world effectively, you know, with hades, like it's just it's an essence of you that is now just well, I think about something like Egypt, right, you're taken across the sky in the chariot, like your t your soul is taken away like you said, I mean, very similar to Greek, Roman. Ancient civilizations always had an answer for what happens after we die, because that's I mean, that's what that is. Often how the answer to what is a soul is it comes from is that discussion of what happens after we die? Because I guess in a lot of assumptions in Christianity or maybe this is the way people think about it now, your soul is the thing that's at the wheel here.

Yes, yeah, the soul is what makes you you like, it's the ultimate you. It's it's and when you think about it, you know, like you okay, what makes a soul. A lot of people or a lot of examples pointed into like that human beings can reason and have will power and have the ability to like, love and be discerning, whereas like, animals don't have souls allegedly, allegedly if we're talking about Christianity, right, animals do not have souls, And the reasoning behind that typically is that they don't you know, they act purely on instinct. They don't have concern for the greater human you know, the greater humanity or the greater well being of their species as a whole. We as human beings have the capability of understanding that our actions and who we are as people affect you know, everyone around us and even further than that.

So I think you know, a soul, as it were, is not inherently religious. I think it's just inherently the capability of being able to care and deeply and complexly. I think that's the more important part, right, the complexity of it, that you have the ability to understand a lot of good with the bad and a lot of bad with the good and still go on as a person. Well, it's self consciousness, right, like being a soul, A soul in a lot of ways is tied to the discussion about self consciousness and how like and being self aware, and you know, pure consciousness, I mean is it is a concept in Hinduism. I mean the term atman is the I guess the Hindu word for self, which more or less translates to soul as well.

And I mean again, you know, Western culture being what it is is one thing, but Eastern philosophy is like Hinduism and Jainism and a lot of I mean, obviously Buddhism deal with I think the soul in a much more interesting way, in a way that feels more akin to a like you said, a complex idea of what this is. And it's not just this. And again I'm not dragging Christianity as google baby talk, but the the practicers of Christianity now that are louder than the others are googu baby talking it because they don't Yeah they're black and white. Yeah they through And I don't think that, and I would, I clearly know you would agree that this is not black and white. There is there that that doesn't even matter in this conversation, like good and bad irrelevant.

It's about the ability to understand, I guess the consequences of your actions and how that might affect you and how it affects the world around you, and how do you make those decisions and how do you and how do you kind of square yourself away with the decisions that you've made as well? Like because again you don't having a soul means you know one thing. But then like, to be selfless is to like devote your soul to something higher than even it. So right, again, it's like, what's the question here? Is like, do you live a life of selflessness to elevate that or you do you live to the best of your own abilities?

And again it's like that's a question in and of itself. But again, Christianity claims that you are meant to be open and loving and welcoming. Sure, I mean again, if not perverted by human beings, that is the message, But that message comes from human beings as well. I mean again, but like it's a human tenet that we treat one another a certain way. The gold I mean, the golden rule.

I mean, it's funny run to others as you would to you, Right, it's fucking stupid, but it's true. Like it's true and again like it goes back to the idea of a soul, Like, what does that? What does that mean to you? I'm curious now that we're on this topic a soul. Oh boy, we're getting deep deeper than I think either one of us would have thought about night mergers.

So what does it mean to me to have a soul? Um? I think I mean, honestly, having a soul to me comes down to experience, to the human ability to have experience. And by that I mean the experience of connecting with like other people, connecting with music, connecting with food, connecting with entertainment, connecting with you know, deep deep, deep seated emotions you know in yourself and in other people. And I think the more that you allow yourself to be open to any experience most you know, obviously some experience is not necessary.

But if you are opening yourself to the ability to experience life to the fullest, I think that is really Like what what creates a soul? What keep not creates a soul, but what builds a soul and keeps the soul going is the ability to just connect fully with every like you know, aspect of your being to a person or a pet or a piece of music or a fucking cloud in the sky, like just the ability to see that those things. And I think that's what it is that was a soul about you. I mean, I think I agree with you in a lot of ways. Obviously.

I mean, they always, you know, they being people like us. The Good Book always says that you know, we're we're spiritual beings on an earthly we're spiritual bodies with an earthly experience, something like something that i've and I inclined to agree because I think, you know, again, I don't know if there is a literal soul. I don't know, Like I know that there have been experiments done where and when someone dies, their body is lighter right after they die, as if something has left the body. Yeah, that's a thing like that's not me making it up to be you know, cutesy like, that's a thing that happened, and that was those were scientific experiments that were being done to answer the question of you know, do we have a soul?

So it's not about literal souls. I think in my mind, I think it's more like kind of what you're getting at where I think that to have a soul means to be present, to be and to be there in the moment, and like you said, to be able to enjoy things in parts of life that are again like you know, we know that animals have a consciousness, we don't know what their ability to comprehend things is. And so we have a consciousness and we are able to comprehend the things that we can see and do in a way that makes sense to us. And I mean again, that's why when we see UFOs or ghosts or things, it's like, well, maybe we just can't comprehend it. And I think that comes back to what souls are.

I think souls are what we are able to comprehend and put through our complex machine of our brains, and it's the thing that drives all the decisions that we make, all the inferences that we have, all the observations that we're looking at. Anything that's our soul is just it's like a big rats nest of experiences and it's a chord that allows something to come in and then it goes. It's all taped together and there's all these different chords that it changes through and then it comes out the other end to something else. That thing that it goes through is our soul. It's the it's the distillation of our being into something.

Again, tangible or not is unimportant. But if you said, is my soul my personality? I would say it might be kind of the same thing, like who I am at my core? Right yeah, but you're you're absolute, like the these are the things that I exist for, right My it's my I mean, my soul is in a lot of ways, and met people talk about their ID. I mean, you know, I mean, that's kind of what we're talking about here.

It's like the person and that you are at the core of it all is your soul, And you know, siren call of hungry ghosts raise the question of you know, are we just coming back souls that have done this before over and over again, trying to learn something, trying to get better at something, trying to spread the message of whatever, Like is that what we're doing here? I don't know, maybe, but part of me would like to believe if there are souls, then they're able to when we have a loss of corporeal form, that the soul can leave and go into the ether and come back. And I genuinely believe that as I assume you do as well. Yeah, and I also don't believe. I don't believe in the soul lists idea, right because I think that I think that like a soul, as we're talking about, it does not necessarily have to be a good thing to exist.

I think that souls exist in both good and bad and limbo areas, right, like for all intenses purposes. On paper, bad person quote unquote someone could label as a soulless human being, but I don't think that that's the case. I think that their soul just feeds on a different set of things that's not And look, if you want to even push a step further about talking about the whole idea of like the soul goes off into the ether and then come back, that explains a whole lot as to why the universe energy you know, gets really like bogged down, right, and why like bad things continue to happen because those souls are also going back into either the ether of the universe and combating like the good vibes, if you will, of the universe, or they're going back into people, into new people to be you know, whatever version of that it's going to be.

So well, I mean the question I have is like take, like you said, taking it a step further. Was someone like John Wayne Gacy or Jeffrey Dahmer a serial killer who did terrible things? Were they a soulless person? I agree with you, I don't think they are. I think I think their soul just fed on different ship.

And that's terrifying, right, Like, what what I need in my daily basis is not the murder of children or the consumption of corpses, and like and and but but clearly that's the motivation for someone because those people have done those things. And yeah, it's it's interesting because again I think inherently those souls are just further back on the timeline than others, you know what I mean, Like they haven't they just haven't. Yeah, they haven't come to the maturation point yet. Of Hey, by the way, it's not okay to drill holes in people's heads and pour hot water in there. Like I shouldn't have to say that out loud, but yet we do because in a time and place that we live, and someone did that, thankfully only one person, best we can tell.

But yeah, there are sometimes twenty five to fifty serial killers operating at any one time, exactly in my head right occasionally when I'm walking around outside. But like that's but that's the thing. I mean, the way I view it is similar to what you said, Like it's just it's they haven't reached a maturation point yet. Like I'm equating like a soul in passion, Like passion is a thing that I definitely equate soul with, and passion is not always a good thing. Passion can be a really fantastic thing, and passion passion can be a really destructive thing.

And I think that that goes you know, it's the balance of the universe of like well, and that's why I think things like, you know, the idea of like a god and heaven in hell or you know name just the finalization of like you're either good or you're bad just doesn't compute with me. And the idea of something being able to like you know, like have the power of good no matter what, doesn't compute with me. Because we do live in a world where bad shit continuously happens, new bad shit happens every day, the same old, same shit happens every day, continu neuously, And I think it makes more sense if you think about it because souls are being a kind of than if we're talking about it in a sort of recycled sort of way that souls are going, you know, like in and out of a process that makes a lot of sense.

But you know, well, and again I mean it, like you said about the energy of the universe kind of being screwy. I mean it would kind of answer some questions about, at least in my mind, things like tarot and astrology, things that again like they're not sciences, but when you put enough of the data together regarding things like astrology, there are patterns do form up. Yeah, yeah, patterns do form And again, like that's not me saying this for hyperbolic effect. There are there have been plenty of studies shown that somehow energy is affecting Again, maybe we're affecting it. We don't know even if even if we are, we're not able to control it in any substantive way other than the power of positive thinking, which I manifestation.

And you know what I believe all of that is, I know you do, like, yeah, and acknowledgement. If you know what the cards are telling you, you can that you know the way I read you know my terror cards, and I am by no means like a person who considers themselves any sort of like psychic or medium or spirit very spiritual person to begin with, it's something that is a little new to me. But with the cards, like I just look at you know, whatever the readings are, they're very much like it's an outline, and it's like a warning like to things like I'll and lately, you know, in the last few months, with a lot of shit that's been happening in my life. The cards make a lot of damn sense and it's kind of hard to deny it at points where it's like that is right on the fucking nose, and I take most of my cards.

It's like their warnings right like this, if you continue on these paths of this thinking or this doing or whatever, this is kind of how you could end up, you know where you know these results are going to lead. Well, see you know Emma right, she's one of the hosts of this show with the You and I and a couple of years ago we found out astent we were recording. It was August of twenty twenty one. You had a tarot reading done by Emma's former podcast co host over at Strange beliefs Arthur, who is a practicing which and those tarot cards kind of sent you further down the path that you were going on. Do you remember that?

Yeah? Yeah, Like I think about that often, a major sense of overwhelming life with a lot of things. And they were like, hey, you need to like chill the fuck out, and I was like, you know what, maybe I do And it was right I did, and they're still right. I still do it just in other aspects of my life. That's fair.

I just it always cracks me up because it was like the tarot card reading came and then you took your like year long sabbatical for your like mental and personal health, and it's like, I just always remember those tarot cards were not wrong. And in that year, and in that year I did a lot of self self work and changing and a lot of things in my life that made major changes in my life right, And again liked to get to where I am now as a person, which is much you know, for all intents and purposes, regardless of some you know, like you know, life changes beyond my control. I am a much happier version of myself. I'm a much more authentic version of myself. Because I took that time to like really be like, okay, hey, what do you who are you?

What do you need out of life? What are you looking for right now? Right? But I always wonder would you have you think you would have still gotten there without the tarot cards or was that like just one further tough in the bucket. I think I would have gotten there eventually.

I think it would have taken me a bit longer, though, Like I think I would have tried to push like through it more like no, you're just you know, I would have talked myself out of it, like you're just being you know, it's like chill out, You're fine, just keep on going like it's whatever. But yeah, I think like that it was just kind of like, oh, okay, that's what I've been thinking. It's kind kind of being told to me crystal clear right now, all right, hind, I'll give this a whirl and start listening to it, you know a little bit, you know. And I'm not saying like I don't live and die by my cards, right like right, no, I know, you go, I don't pull the hermit car and be like, well, I can never go outside until I get the hermit you know reverse, but you also are cognizant of the power of these kinds of things, which to me is the important part.

The power of persuasion is also there, right well. Yeah, but nobody was persuading you to do what you did, right No, it was already in my mind. And that was just a sign as effectively a sign, right like people always looking for a sign to do, like to push them into a decision that they don't that they want, that they know ultimately will be a good thing that they should do for themselves, but will result in a major, major, abrupt change in their current life. And that's the scary part. It's because you know, the future is whatever.

We don't know what the future is right now, but we know what the right now is right now, and I have to live through the right now, so right well, And that's and like we've been saying, I mean, I think that souls are tapping into that similar energy that astrology and taro are, where it's connecting with some sort of energy that either the universe is putting out or you're putting out, or the universe is receiving from you. And I mean things like taro and astrology, I think in my mind, aren't not like examples of proving it, but interesting things to bring up in a conversation like this one when you're having a conversation about souls, right, which again could just be our energy and the energy of the universe interacts with us in interesting and fun ways.

Again, maybe that's I don't know, I don't I don't know. We don't know what we don't know, So that's why we sit here and theorize pontificate. Yeah, well depends on the person. If it's pontificating. Sometimes it is pontificating.

That's okay. So we went all over the place on that one. Yeah, we really did, from like a warrior night marches to what does it mean to have a soul? Yeah? Yeah, so what do you have?

It's got some I just uh oh boy, uh well I don't have anything as good as that. Let me put it that way. Well, maybe I do. Who knows. Uh So I have a big foot.

What a surprise. Everybody says, it's it's a big foot. Yeah, that would be pretty good. So I kind of have two because I couldn't find a lot of information about one and the other one. I kind of felt like it was a little bit of a cop out because again, like it's going to be the thing that I think if you know anything about Hawaii, you're gonna have heard of before.

But I want to mention this again, it's kind of big foot a Jason. I don't think there's like a there doesn't seem to be a big foot bigfoot. I did find people talking about a movie called The Maui Skunk Ape, which doesn't actually have anything to do with a real bigfoot. It's just them using something that we've talked about before, the Skunk Ape, which I believe is what Florida, Florida, Louisiana, right. Some were very coastal.

Yeah, But the thing I wanted to mention. The only big foot A Jason thing that I could find was i Kanaka, which is a it's kind of part of Hawaiian mythology. And he the name means eater of men or man eater, and he married marries one of the goddesses, and then they have children together and they're kind of demigod children. But that's not I mean again, like it was unfortunate, is like all I could find is a brief Wikipedia entry, and then I went and looked elsewhere, and it was just not much of anything. Because again, the one thing that you can find when you search about Hawaii is the thing that I more or less associated with Hawaii because of trader Vix, because Trader Vix has more or less elevated this mythological creature pretty high.

If you know what trader Vix is. Trader Vix is a tiki bar. It's the original tiki bar in a lot of ways that was out in well, the original ones across the Bay Bridge from San Francisco. And so they have a mascot that they use for Trader Vix, and the mascot is the Menahooni. The Menahooni are dwarf people.

They are the Hobbits, the Hobbits of the Hawaiian Islands, and they are supposedly I mean again, they literally sound like hobbits. You know, when we think about Lord of the Rings, we think about hobbits, you know, hanging out and you know, building and crafting things and eating. But not again, they're not like a warring people. And the Menahoony are kind of similar. So they built temples and all kinds of stuff, and they would farmers and fishermen and they would only come out at night and they would build their masterpieces at night because they would also again they were craftsmen, so they would like craft things in the night for the Hawaiian people, but only at night.

So it's like, it's interesting, it's trading on like several kinds of things at times. Again we're kind of talking about like forest people, pigmies. I mean again, I don't think pigmies is the right word, but dwarf people. We're trading on like hobbit adjacent stuff. But then we're also talking like what I would consider to be elf tradition, like tradition of like you know, like they come at night and they come in through the window and they cobble your shoes type thing.

The convenience I mean, hey, but that for me is like the MENHOHOONI is just this this weird little mascot that a trader vix. It's on the end of the swizzle stick that they give you in your drink, like he's the Manhuoni is the mascot. But apparently, and again this is again a piece of information that to throw it out there. If we didn't, we might not really be doing our jobs very well. There is a theory put forward by a folklorist named Katherine Lumala, who says, maybe the term menahoony is I don't know, it was maybe being just it's a it's a post contact thing, and so post contact with Europeans.

So so maybe it was a tribe. Well, it may may have been. It may have been. Okay, so let's let's let's think about it less physically, more status wise. If I say a dwarf person, someone of smaller stature, right, if you take that literally, we're talking like a like a someone who's short, right, like like a hobbit.

But think about it metaphorically and figuratively instead someone who right. And so in a lot of ways, there's a possibility that maybe menahoony is a term, and it came from a term for it's kind of a bastardized term that the Pans created from another term mona hune that means lowly or lower social status people. See what I'm getting at here, someone who's shorter than you. But again not speaking literally speaking literally status yes, and that yeah, okay, So it's basically the people that they discovered on the islands. They were referring to beneath them potentially potentially Again, I don't I mean again, it's like anything else.

It's like the thing you were talking about with the with the souls, right, and it's it's again, you know, and the night marchers are walking through the night to protect the island. This is a little bit more of kind of a benevolent figures of that, right, Like do they do anything? Um? Not? Not really, I mean they build things, so, um, They've supposedly built uh, you know, structures on Necker Island, They've built structures on several of the Hawaiian islands.

There is even a fishpond named Manihoni Fishpond on Kauai. So there are plenty of things that are attributed to them. Again, they're not seen as a negative cryptid. Again, I say crypted very lightly here because it's at times it's is this a leprechon at times? Is this an elf?

At times? Is this? What is this? Because again, it draws from a lot of the similar traditions. So I don't want to say cryptid, but it's definitely like a creature.

But then the Maori have something similar, uh, and you know, they have similar things in the Philippines and in the Marianas is as well, so it's not like and even as far away and in somewhere like Madagascar they have the vazimba, which is a similar idea of like the people from the forest or the first inhabitants who are coming and doing things positive for us in the night. I mean this is again we have traditions in this country. I mean it's talking about, um, you know, the elves who fix shoes. I mean that's a thing, you know. So I can't even say cryptic, but I don't even think that they're I don't even get the sense with all the you know, doing the research, that they have ever been seen as violent or aggressive towards people.

It's like they do their their business and there you go. They don't expect anything in return. Common at night you never see them. They're on the morning, right. But like again, if you think about it in a more literal sense, and you think about it in a negative direction, I mean it starts to kind of have help.

Well yeah, but also I mean if you think about you know, they come in the night, they're not seen. I mean again, it's it's thinking about it as a well, you know, these people are you know staying away for whatever reason, and we need to ascribe a reason to that. It's also kind of what it feels like because again, I mean, there are there are sightings of these, but it's not it's more of a belief lessa we're seeing these people. Because again, like if you're talking about the elves that cobble shoes in the night, nobody ever actually sees them. I mean, that's the joke.

I mean, that's the joke. Now you know, or did some did the elves come in the night and do it? Like? I mean, you know, yeah, you know, like you've heard it if you live work grands or right, if you've ever worked in the workplace and something gets done by somebody and nobody else knows it, Yeah, exactly, So that I mean, it's it's weird because the more I looked into it, the less it seemed like an actual thing that exists, but existed tangibly but more or less a way to explain certain things that don't have an easily ascribable or attainable explanation within the constructs of seventeen hundred English say. Now that now, now that's an interesting question too, that how many you know you asked me the question, how many legends, you know, kind of spawn from indigenous people based on, you know, the idea of people coming and taking their land from them.

How many cryptids and legends were formed on the you know, westerner's side, based on they're they're just ignorance of the people that they were meeting, right, Yeah, I mean, I think there's probably examples for both. You know, obviously there are plenty of indigenous people's traditions surrounding bigfoots in the Pacific Northwest, and that, I mean bigfoot existed in the Pacific Northwest long before white man showed up and said, oh, what's that guy in the woods out there doing? But at the same time, like you just said, I mean, if you think about it, like if you're trying to figure out a way to explain something that you can't explain big hairy guy in the woods, Like if you see it from far enough away and you're not able to tell what it is, something walking on two legs really fast with its arms swinging might be maybe some big monster sure, or it could just be somebody that you literally can't fathom seeing because you've never had content, you've never seen them before.

Yeah, yeah, which I think we, as Westerners in a developed nation, take for granted that like there is not really anything that any one of us can see anymore. That's like right, like right, like, oh my god, well you know that I couldn't fathom it. You can fathom everything now. I was having this conversation with my wife a couple weeks ago, and she was like, what, wouldn't it be funny if your brain switched with the dog's brain, like the consciousness switched, And I was like, no, because I'm pretty sure the dog would die immediately. Yeah, because like it which consciousness would be fucking overloaded by like what is all what?

I genuinely believe if you took someone from the nineteen hundreds and set them in this office and had them sit in the corner and watch me do what I'm doing now talking to you through the magic of the Internet, which I am not even sure I understand how the internet works in a right, like I know that someone from a time long before ours would literally be sitting in the corner shaking, like in the fetal out right because like they can't understand this my computer, let alone my phone, let alone plastic bottles like I mean again, the things we take right, like you all the way, the way we love, the way, like everything's decorated, like just everything, just everything about everything right, and again, I would be a sensory overload, right, And I'm thinking about that in terms of like our family pet, his consciousness coming into my body and not understanding it.

But yeah, like people can't understand it either, and people are like, well, what you know, how could somebody have seen a whale that thought it was a giant squid or saw something that thought it was a giant squid. It's like, because at one point in human consciousness there wasn't fucking Google. You couldn't just take a picture in Google could tell you were posted on Reddit. You know, we had we had James Renner on talking about a servile in fucking Akron. Yeah, and then lo and behold there was a circle on cocaine in Akron.

Yeah, Like that makes no sense at all, but yet it had a I mean, I've been to Acron. I didn't think that there were giant cats rowing the streets on cocaine, but maybe you didn't take me to the right part. Usually no, but I'm not surprised that there was yeah, I mean it is as you would say it is, Ohio. People are this place. Every day.

Something weird happens out my window, like especially in the summertime, constantly, just weird stuff. I don't I don't know if stuff burns down all the time, like it's it's crazy here. But that's my point, Like your ability to perceive the place that you live and the in your corner of the world, even sometimes you have a problem with it in this day and age. But I don't think it's anywhere close to what people who are indigenous to our country what must have thought seeing someone like Christopher Columbus, Like seeing someone coming towards you from something you can't even comprehend the size of because you thought it was limitless coming who looks nothing like you walking up onto the beach front and going flag yeah yeah, yeah, Like I can't begin to even guess at to what the fuck they must have thought, like, and you know what I mean, And like, in a lot of ways, that's what I think about a lot of these folklore traditions is it is just a very simple might not be the right way of putting it, but it's a very simple way of explaining things that are beyond complex, but they might not.

Actually, yeah, I don't know how we describe a phone to someone, Like, how would you describe this to someone who can't comprehend thirty five other things that we need to understand to understand this? I would need them to and to have at least existed after Alexander Craft, Like, you understand the concept that you can pick this thing up and talk to somebody who's not here. Okay, great, that's half the battle. What explaining them to anybody else before? Then?

It's like, oh what, no, what? I would die? I get burnt at the fucking stake they kill me? Yeah, I mean, and that's gone. That's my point.

It's like they would have to understand so many other things to even understand the phone, Like the phone part. Everybody's gonna have to get cool with a lot of things really fast, right, So why would we be straining ourselves to believe that one hundred years ago or two hundred years ago or three hundred years ago people had explanations for things that they just couldn't understand, Because two hundred years ago there were plenty of things happening that people didn't understand. That's just not the case anymore. I mean, look at all, like all myths, and that was just purely people trying to explain things like why does it rain? Why the sun?

Why do people die? Why does you know famine happen? Why do my crops not grow? Why didn't you know? We just we try and it We need answers to them, whether they make sense or not.

Well, in a lot of ways, the answers that we're looking for are in part so that we can do something to prevent it or counteractive or or or harness it for our own benefit. I mean that's and there's a look going back to the tarot cards, that's the same thing you ask tarot cards for fucking guidance to be like what can I do about this? Right? You're asking paper what to do in your life a real and again, like if you even think about life and the decisions and ideas that one has to understand to get to the point that we are right now, I implore anybody to sit and look at something in a room that they are in and think about that thing that you're looking at, and internalize and be self aware of the biases, prejudices and experiences that you have that allow you to form the opinion about the thing that you're looking at, and how drastically different anyone is from you in your ability to perceive or understand the thing that they're looking at, even if it is the same thing you're looking Like, that's it's crazy to think about, but like it is an interesting thought experiment because if I say pink pen, we're going to have three different variations on what that means, what's our interpretation, what are we expecting?

And they're not right or wrong, but they all just come from massive amounts of experience that we don't think about all the time, even just little things like this, like I realized this is a podcast format and Chris and I can see each other, but like I have an elf bar I you know, it's a nicotine thing. Just explaining this thing, this this stupid colorful candy flavored it wouldn't even understand the color of it, like the color of it, No, the nicotine aspect, like I know, like the yeah, there's like cigarettes and stuff back at the day, but they didn't understand like the nicotine part of it at that point. And it's like, what, how, Yes, I have this weird little electronic thing that I constantly am holding in my hand and this blowing big clouds out of my face.

Right, you'd be burned at the steak. People burned at the steak for less. People were burned at the steak because they thought the crops failed, because they said something like, yeah, like, we gotta blame somebody. It must have been that person's fault. They were outside after night.

Clearly it was them, right, must be a witch burner at the stake. And it's like what what, Yeah, sure, I guess, But now the benefit would be that they would be in our time period, right, so they'd be on our turf, So fucking try me bro Well, that's I mean, but that's the other thing I get put back in time. I'm fucked. Well, that's the thing. I mean when you think about you know, these these indigenous cultures interacting with the explorers and you know colonizers, I mean that's the other thing.

I mean, who had who had the benefit there? And it's like, well, neither because the colonize they had The colonizers had had technology, but they didn't understand fuck one of the place that they were. Now the only the only thing that the colonizers had was disease. I find it. I think people have a hard time understanding advanced weaponry and disease.

I think people have a hard time understanding ninety nine or ninety percent of people dying in a civilization like because of interacting with like colonizers. Like I feel like people in this state age could not comprehend that. I mean we know that people. Yeah, an entire population of people just almost completely like I mean some of them, yes, completely evaporating from existence because there's something nobody can see, something they can't even understand. Because of disease.

Yeah, because of disease. That was primarily, yes, and advanced weaponary absolutely, guns for sure, like that was you know guns versus you know, hand to hand combat is a pretty or even yeah, I mean pretty unfair fight. I mean the only you know, the main thing that that you know, traps, yes, like being in and not knowing where they are, not understanding the land at all, having no idea of what the topography is going to be, you know, not knowing what to eat off the trees and knowing you know, what animals are there, what what things are there? Sure? Yes, but overall, yeah, they had food that it did bring with them.

Sure, but they had the weapons and they had the ability that they had you know, been exposed to all of these other things that these people had not. And because these people were living in a place that was very untouched, they didn't have a lot of disease, right stockings. Yeah, yeah, I mean they did. They got sick, things happened, like they got sick. There were things that occurred, but there weren't you know, small ballox blank blankets.

Yeah. I mean that's the thing. I mean there there, that's and that's the thing. I mean again, you know, we come back to this idea of like the Menajuoni and these these people of the jungle who were again maybe this is a way of speaking down to the to the indigenous people, but at least it's positive and their craftsmen. Yes, I mean that's it.

Like that's all you can really say if if you take the kind of cultural angle and look at it as a possible problematic but I pro I possibly strange thing interpretation, Like at least it's it's not the worst thing you could be interpreted as I says from a white from the from the white man's point of view. But if you lower a person like it kind of is like again it's there's I don't know, well, yes, because and that was I mean, let's be real, that could have been referring to anyone like at that point, like they got there and everyone was beneath them. It wasn't a matter of like, oh, these people over here are actually very quote unquote civilized and we like them and we'll get along with them, but these ones over here not so much.

Now it was fuck everybody, we're here, Like I mean, I don't know if you know any European people, but I know some older people that live in Europe and they were born in Europe and they're casually racist. Yeah, I mean casually. I mean it's not even racist, it's more just like eurocentric still and like that's that's a bit. Well, it's more just like eurocentric, like they're just they were they were talking about how they went to China and tried the food and it was like, you know, this is shit food, and it's like I bet it wasn't. But again, like it doesn't appeal to the European.

It's not the europe Yeah, it's not the European as I would as we would say the americanised version. I mean, Americans did this too. I mean, Americans are you know, the worst of the Europeans, Like well, I mean, I mean we're the bastard children of the Europeans who are like, fuck all your ship. I mean the Europeans looked down. The Europeans that look down on other people's cultures look down on Americans just as hard.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's hamburgers and hot dogs, da big sodas. We get it, like supersize everything. Everybody's fat, everybody's this. Everybody's you know, loud and obnoxious.

And you know what, I can understand where they understand see that the people that are loud are obnoxious. Yeah, and they are the ones that are on the news constantly, so I can see, you know if your only exposure to that is that. Well yeah, but yeah, I mean we we all it's just the chain reaction of looking your nose down it's somebody else. Yeah. But it is a very interesting concept to think about how many cryptids and legends can be explained away as purely ignorance of the population at the time of your arrival.

Well, how many of the cryptids are like post contact because that's the thing about the Menahudi. It's like it's a post contact construct, so it doesn't exist before the Europeans showed up so exactly, and it's like that, I mean, it's not one to one, but it's not a coincidence either, Like there there is some intent there. So yeah, I would be curious. I mean that would be an interesting kind of direction to go and look at is like the the amount of cryptids that have been just you know what is that? Is that the white man?

Like yeah, like or is that the indiance? That is? Yeah? Well and again like you said, I mean, the indigenous cultures have a long, rich history, so there's no way they don't have something. Some of them don't have something, so right, Hawaii seems like an interesting place, but it seems very culturally unique compared to the continental United States.

Like I was trying to think of a state in the country that has a similar feel, and maybe it's like like North or South Dakota or Oklahoma where it's a large indigenous population still exists. Yeah yeah, but like even then, it's in a very different way, right, Like this different way this feels like so much more hands off. Maybe it really isn't, but like it seems like it is. It does it doesn't because it's not connected to here, right, Like it's not. Yeah, it's part of what is the majority?

What is the majority population of Hawaii? Like, um, ethnicity? Like uh, because it's all it's not a you know, majority Caucasian place. I don't do you want to guess what the percentage are Asian slash Pacific Islanders or twenty twenty, I'm gonna say forty five. Ah, I was close.

That's a lot. Yeah, what is the twenty one? Funny one white people for white yep, and then the third highest ethnic group is are Hispanic. Yeah. Yeah, So I mean like it's a very I mean, the most of the continental United States is very white or you know, very white people influence.

Let's say that. Lets let's let's say yeah, white people influence, because there are states in the continent United Continental United States that are not a majority white but still have a very similar you know that they still feel like they're very white places culturally. Yeah. But but Hawaii, Yeah, it's not connected to here. It's not connected.

It's not you know, it is an expensive place to live. It is an out of reach place. To go for a lot of you know, people that you know live in certain parts of the United States, myself, yourself included. Getting it's not it's super funny good. I mean, hey, I'm happy quite honestly, great, honestly, keep keep the keep white people hands off ship.

Like it's hard to get there. I mean it's it's more expensive to go to Hawaii than it is to go to like other countries that you can fly to London. Yeah, cheaper than you can fly to Hawaii, which is mind blowing. It's like five hundred dollars round trip to go to then the amount of places you can go from London so easily, right and cheaply, right, Like, I have a friend who lives in the UK. We do a podcast, a couple of podcasts together, and it's like it's like five hundred and fifty bucks round trip to get out there.

It's like that's like nothing, that's like nothing. It's like twelve hundred dollars round trip to go to Oai. It's not a joke. It's so expensive because it's it's also like exclusively a tourist. That's like not exclusively, but the entirety of it is as a tourist destination.

Right there are specific parts of Europe that are tourist destinations, but there are other parts of Europe that aren't, you know, just like there's a part of parts of the continental United States that are tourist destinations, like California and Florida, but not Ohio, not Nebraska. Like, nobody's coming here unless it's to visit people who already live here. But it's not to just have a good time out in Ohio or Nebraska. But we did have a good time, and you will have a good time when you can visit. But I agree, I agree with you.

Like it's also only parts of Florida and parts of California, right, Like, not the entirety of California is a tourist destination. All of Hawaii is a tourist destination. Any place you in Hawaii is a place people want to go, right, Like, there's no part of Hawaii where people are like that place sucks, Like well in the other Sacramento and the other thing is I mean it is, you know, I think people also tend to forget how far away it is. It's pretty far away. I mean, it's part of Oceania.

It's it's closer to Australia than it is the United States. I'm pretty sure. So yeah, it's I mean it's in the middle of the Yeah, it's hot. It would be so nice. I want to go so bad.

It sounds like it would be fun, like if it feels like it would be a fun place. But again, it strikes me in a lot of ways as to like going to an all expenses paid resort in Mexico. But this is like that X ten where it's like it's you're going, You're gonna go to Hawaii. It's not unsafe to go out. I mean I don't think it's unsafe in Mexico anywhere.

Yeah, but like Hawaii. I mean again, like like we've said, like they want tourists to come. That's that's tourism. Is the big industry make their money. Yeah yeah, so yeah, I mean they're a harbor town, man, Like, I mean, that's that's what that is.

It's a seaside town where yeah, they don't your money's coming in. Yeah, but it has the benefit of it being beautiful and sunny all the time, as opposed to just during the summertime, like when you know people go to Florida or well not Florida, but like Atlantic City and shit like that where it's like a tourist season. We got to get them in and out because we only have these three months. So it's like, yeah, all year around is tourist season, and Hawaii, yeah, come on out. Well, that's why it's never cheap, because it's it's it's there's not a cheap time to go to Hawaii because people are in Hawaii.

Is what we've decided here. I mean, if you because again you and I both work in the entertainment industry, either directly or indirectly, and I know plenty of people that that is like the place that they go. That is where they go for months at a time. Someone I used to work with went to a wife for a month and a half. Like that's not cheap, Like no, but like, but I bet it's fucking worth it, right.

But I also listen to stories. I also listen to stories about people talking about how we go would go to Hawaii all the time, and it's like, it's like you said, in a lot of ways, Hawaii reminds me of like Las Vegas, where it's like you're going there for the thing, which is the relaxing on the beach and living like a king in a lot of ways, as much as you can afford to do it. Like, yeah, I would love to go to Hawaii. I would love to go to Hawaiian do none of that bullshit and just go and like see like indigenous things that people would do. Yeah, the people who live there do.

Like, I don't want to just sit at the resort the whole time. But I also know that on the beach. But there are plenty of places I can do that in the continental United States and live like a local and not get my bank account completely drank. Yes, yes, but man, those views I know, and the palm trees and the jungle and the crystal blue water. Yeah, the White Sands I didn't come back from their honeymoon.

Yeah. The night marchers, Yeah, the night marchers, manny, I mean look, yeah, I I don't know again if it would even their spirits don't seem that, you know, upsetting, Like I'll just not look the night marcher in the eye. That's fine, I got it right. I'm cool with you, dude. I'm I ain't No, I'm not trying to I'm not trying to be a colonizer.

Yeah, I do your thing. I just want to sit on the beach man. Yeah, I'm with you. God, that's it. That does sound pretty good.

Ca'd be so fantastic. Yeah, one day we'll go to Hawaii. We'll podcast from Hawaii. Hey, we're finally here podcasting from Hawaii. I mean that's the other thing each directly, Like, I don't know if I want to.

I don't think i'd want to live in Hawaii because that, I mean, it's so expensive too. You know what, well that that is a good reason. But you know the real reason why I wouldn't want to live in hawaiire quite any quite frankly, any really really beautiful, beautiful place is because eventually you live there and it just becomes another place, like it just don't. It isn't Akron though, Yeah there's nothing nice about Akron to begin with. That's fair, But you know what I mean, like you would get it would be normal, like the palm trees would become and I mean I realized palm palm trees, you know, I can get in Florida and California in various other places.

But like you know, the volcano views and all those like cool things would eventually just become stuff. Like you know, like people live in New York City, Like people who live in New York City don't look at New York City like I you know, like people who live in Ohio look in New York City right like they are there and they're pissed off every fucking day because the traffic is bad and everything's expensive and all this stuff. And I just you know, there's some places there. There's not a lot of magic left in this world, Chris. And if I can maintain just this little magic island in my mind and I can just visit it every now and then, where it is this paradise that doesn't change, and is this this beautiful place, and I can you know, have it there, that'd be great, and it would be expensive a shit, yeah, I mean the fact that the food is the undesirable places are starting to become expensive as shit too.

So yeah, that's fair. I mean, look, ultimately, at the end of the day, it's it's a very unique state that exists. You know, I would say, you know, no pun intended exists as an island unto itself obviously, yep. So we should dip into some true friends in Hollywood said Hawaii. I wonder what they probably have all kinds of stuff.

Oh, I'm sure. Yeah, that's a stay tuned. Let's break the magic of I just talked about people getting murdered and sliced up. All right, Well, I'm not going to Hawaii. I mean to be fair, though.

You live in Ohio and one of the most desirable places to live in this country is California, the other state with all the serial killers. So yes, so I just you know, at least I got sunshine with the other serial killers here. It's all fucking quality. That's fair. So, Jess, when you and I are talking about haunted states, where can people find you?

Kicking around on the internet. You can find me on Instagram at writer Jess Fired. Pretty Much everything I do there I do ends up there. I have photography accounts and things linked. You can check that out.

You can also find me on other various podcasts with Chris, such as episodes of The Culture Cast, episodes of The Baywood Cinema Club, episodes of our other shows, The One Season Show, and Yeah What About You. Weirdingwaymedia dot Com is where you can find every single one of the shows that just just mentioned. And plenty more, including but not limited to twisted and uncorked. To women that are much funnier than me, which is not hard. Eighties TV ladies, to women who talk about what do you know?

TV from the eighties featuring ladies and always the one and only Mike Whites. The Projection Booth a podcast that's as entertaining as it is educational. As for this show, Scary Stories We Tell dot Com Scary Stories WT on social media that shit sucks though and nobody likes using it myself included. As for this show, Maggoty Odd and Dustin Rutledge do the album artwork. Big thanks to them.

As always, you can find Maggie's work over at Dolan Museum dot com. As for Alex Malnack, he does the music for the cult, not for the culture, guess. He does the music for Scary Stories We Tell, and you can find his music over on Spotify just search Blondo. But if you're in the Midwest you could probably find him kicking around to your town on tour because, as musicians like to do, he likes to go out and play music live. Who would have thunk it?

Right? Yes? I guess all right? If if you were into it before. I was never really into it before, but I'm glad that it's back.

It's back, folks, so uh and yeah, Well, we'll let our good friends, the former host Decidings mister Tim White, will lead us out. No mystery is closed to an open mind.